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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

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    AMK

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  AMK on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:09 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:58 pm

    AMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...

    Blaming these crashes on some phantom American sabotage is space equivalent of blaming Russian hackers for Hilary Clinton's election defeat.

    It's retarded.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:04 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...

    Blaming these crashes on some phantom American sabotage is space equivalent of blaming Russian hackers for Hilary Clinton's election defeat.

    It's retarded.

    Proof by assertion. Got ya. We should all bow in your presence to your infinite knowledge.

    Bugger off.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:00 am

    kvs wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    AMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...

    Blaming these crashes on some phantom American sabotage is space equivalent of blaming Russian hackers for Hilary Clinton's election defeat.

    It's retarded.

    Proof by assertion.   Got ya.   We should all bow in your presence to your infinite knowledge.

    Bugger off.

    Fine, then how about you prove your conspiracy fantasies?

    Oh that's right, you can't because you ain't got shit. So sad....
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:36 am

    well, since it is human error, guess what will happen? Someone will lose their job over this.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:53 pm

    Soyuz 2.1b rebounds from failure at Vostochny with a successful launch from Plesetsk of the Lotos-S1 military (SIGINT) bird.  Thats more like it!!   russia



    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lotos-s1-803.html


    Last edited by Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:22 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Soyuz 2.1b rebounds from failure at Vostochny with a successful launch from Plesetsk of the Lotos-S1.  Thats more like it!!   russia

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lotos-s1-803.html

    That's more like it. thumbsup

    Funny how you never hear of that kind of crap happening in Plasetsk even though they are also ones who test run unfamiliar and new equipment.

    But there is no shortage of fuckups in civilian ran outfits.

    Proof that more and larger boots need to be inserted into some asses ASAP.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:21 pm

    For anyone who is interested, here is a good reference to keep track of Russian launches on a year-to-year basis. Includes both orbital missions and sub-orbital (ie missile tests).

    Russian Wikipedia - List of Space Launches in 2017

    Edit the url to go to corresponding page for previous years.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:16 pm

    '
    Looks like there won't be delays of next launch from Vostochniy slated for 22nd December after all

    Also all ground infrastructure there worked without a problem

    http://www.interfax.ru/russia/590042
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:04 am

    Where can I apply to be a russian rocket assembler where I work 2 days per week, apparently dont need a clean record or good education and jam sensors upside down for a good wage? What a Face :sarcasm:
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:22 am

    Latest word of Fregat issue on the recent failed launch. Clearly a failure of project administration and an artefact of the brain drain of 90s & 00s. In the old days, senior engineers would have been all over this, but nowadays it seems the industry lacks the old-timers who knew their craft, and there is a gulf between non-technical business managers and the relatively-young Engineers working at the coal-face.

    In the days following the November 28 accident, Russian space officials and the wider engineering space community also did some soul-searching on the underlining causes leading to the bizarre error during the launch. First of all, a number of experts, pointed out that the overall cause of the accident was a rare confluence of rotation angles within the gyroscopic system of the Fregat upper stage which had not been accounted for in the software of its onboard flight control computer. Such a confluence could only be generated by the particular navigational situation in Vostochny and had never been encountered during the previous 66 launches of Soyuz-2 rockets from Baikonur, Plesetsk and Kourou.

    According to a post on the online forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine, the Fregat stage for the ill-fated first mission from Vostochny was originally built for the launch of the Rezonans scientific satellites from Baikonur.

    At the same time, experts agree that the problem could theoretically have been resolved before launch, if not for the poor coordination between the developers of the flight control systems of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle and their colleagues working on flight controls for the Fregat. As one poster on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum noted: in the deluge of pre-launch paperwork between RKTs Progress in Samara, which built Soyuz-2, and NPO Lavochkin, which developed Fregat, discussing a multitude of legal issues, confirming and reconfirming various agreements and reminders, there was not a single memo attracting the developers’ attention to a different alignment of the launch pad in Vostochny from that of other sites. Obviously, such information was buried in the working documentation on the mission, but nobody thought about the effect of this fact on the launch. The lower echelon of engineers simply missed that detail, while top managers had no idea at all, because, the majority of them lacked the necessary qualifications, the poster said…


    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/meteor-m2-1.html#1203

    I modify my comments made earlier about someone losing their job, unless that job is some mid-high level managerial piece of useless deadwood sponging off the public purse.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:25 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Where can I apply to be a russian rocket assembler where I work 2 days per week, apparently dont need a clean record or good education and jam sensors upside down for a good wage? What a Face :sarcasm:

    Where can I apply to be a Ukrainian rocket assembler where I work 0 (*) days per week, apparently dont need a clean record or good education and jam sensors upside down for a shit wage?

    (*) No actual rockets to assemble, so stay home until called....

    Sarcasm not intended... Very Happy
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:42 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:Latest word of Fregat issue on the recent failed launch.  Clearly a failure of project administration and an artefact of the brain drain of 90s & 00s.  In the old days, senior engineers would have been all over this, but nowadays it seems the industry lacks the old-timers who knew their craft, and there is a gulf between non-technical business managers and the relatively-young Engineers working at the coal-face.

    In the days following the November 28 accident, Russian space officials and the wider engineering space community also did some soul-searching on the underlining causes leading to the bizarre error during the launch. First of all, a number of experts, pointed out that the overall cause of the accident was a rare confluence of rotation angles within the gyroscopic system of the Fregat upper stage which had not been accounted for in the software of its onboard flight control computer. Such a confluence could only be generated by the particular navigational situation in Vostochny and had never been encountered during the previous 66 launches of Soyuz-2 rockets from Baikonur, Plesetsk and Kourou.

    According to a post on the online forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine, the Fregat stage for the ill-fated first mission from Vostochny was originally built for the launch of the Rezonans scientific satellites from Baikonur.

    At the same time, experts agree that the problem could theoretically have been resolved before launch, if not for the poor coordination between the developers of the flight control systems of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle and their colleagues working on flight controls for the Fregat. As one poster on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum noted: in the deluge of pre-launch paperwork between RKTs Progress in Samara, which built Soyuz-2, and NPO Lavochkin, which developed Fregat, discussing a multitude of legal issues, confirming and reconfirming various agreements and reminders, there was not a single memo attracting the developers’ attention to a different alignment of the launch pad in Vostochny from that of other sites. Obviously, such information was buried in the working documentation on the mission, but nobody thought about the effect of this fact on the launch. The lower echelon of engineers simply missed that detail, while top managers had no idea at all, because, the majority of them lacked the necessary qualifications, the poster said…


    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/meteor-m2-1.html#1203

    I modify my comments made earlier about someone losing their job, unless that job is some mid-high level managerial piece of useless deadwood sponging off the public purse.

    Discussions between company lawyers have next to nothing to do with the jobs of the engineers. Any engineer working at this shop would
    have known to change the flight control parameters if they were actually qualified for their jobs. Looks like the project managers are
    unqualified hacks and never established a project branch to deal with this "technical" issue. BTW, this is not just Russia's problem.
    It is popular in Canada and elsewhere to use managers with zero knowledge of the work they oversee. Supposedly the skills that
    managers have are so universal they do not need to know any technical details. Utter nonsense theory, of course. And we seem
    to see the result of this theory in practice in this case. (Once again, Russia imports some fad from the west and f*cks itself in the a**).
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:33 pm


    All Soyuz launches with Fregat upper stage have been delayed, including one from Vostochnii (Spring 2018 next possible date)

    Thank you morons...

    https://iz.ru/679446/dmitrii-strugovetc-sergei-valchenko/rossiiskaia-kosmicheskaia-programma-uletela-v-budushchee
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:28 pm

    the theory too that you need to pay people more for better quality is also a sham too, and that is evident even with India's space program. It really has more to do with lack of oversight and proper management, along with QC. You would think with modern technology it would be easier, but it isn't. Instead, there is a lot of oversight that needs to be dealt with.

    They will continue experimenting with different ideas to fix these issues till they finally find that "one" that will work. Of course it will end up costing a lot over time and hurting reputation, but what is more important is for the domestic launches.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:14 am

    miketheterrible wrote:the theory too that you need to pay people more for better quality is also a sham too, and that is evident even with India's space program.  It really has more to do with lack of oversight and proper management, along with QC.  You would think with modern technology it would be easier, but it isn't.  Instead, there is a lot of oversight that needs to be dealt with.

    They will continue experimenting with different ideas to fix these issues till they finally find that "one" that will work.  Of course it will end up costing a lot over time and hurting reputation, but what is more important is for the domestic launches.

    You need to pay new people more money because old people have developed a case of ego.

    Paying old people more is flushing money down the toilet. Pay new people more and get rid of old ones who have track record of fucking up.

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