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    Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

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    AMK

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  AMK on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:09 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:58 pm

    AMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...

    Blaming these crashes on some phantom American sabotage is space equivalent of blaming Russian hackers for Hilary Clinton's election defeat.

    It's retarded.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:04 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...

    Blaming these crashes on some phantom American sabotage is space equivalent of blaming Russian hackers for Hilary Clinton's election defeat.

    It's retarded.

    Proof by assertion. Got ya. We should all bow in your presence to your infinite knowledge.

    Bugger off.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:00 am

    kvs wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    AMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that this is some sabotage is just butthurt fanboy. There are more important things to sabotage than this crap.

    I mostly share your opinion on this. But on the other hand, yeah, there are much more important things to sabotage out there, but what if there are preconditions which make sabotaging Roscosmos particularly easy? So why not, what is stopping "them"? Just thinking out loud here...

    Blaming these crashes on some phantom American sabotage is space equivalent of blaming Russian hackers for Hilary Clinton's election defeat.

    It's retarded.

    Proof by assertion.   Got ya.   We should all bow in your presence to your infinite knowledge.

    Bugger off.

    Fine, then how about you prove your conspiracy fantasies?

    Oh that's right, you can't because you ain't got shit. So sad....
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:36 am

    well, since it is human error, guess what will happen? Someone will lose their job over this.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:53 pm

    Soyuz 2.1b rebounds from failure at Vostochny with a successful launch from Plesetsk of the Lotos-S1 military (SIGINT) bird.  Thats more like it!!   russia



    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lotos-s1-803.html


    Last edited by Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:22 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Soyuz 2.1b rebounds from failure at Vostochny with a successful launch from Plesetsk of the Lotos-S1.  Thats more like it!!   russia

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lotos-s1-803.html

    That's more like it. thumbsup

    Funny how you never hear of that kind of crap happening in Plasetsk even though they are also ones who test run unfamiliar and new equipment.

    But there is no shortage of fuckups in civilian ran outfits.

    Proof that more and larger boots need to be inserted into some asses ASAP.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:21 pm

    For anyone who is interested, here is a good reference to keep track of Russian launches on a year-to-year basis. Includes both orbital missions and sub-orbital (ie missile tests).

    Russian Wikipedia - List of Space Launches in 2017

    Edit the url to go to corresponding page for previous years.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:16 pm

    '
    Looks like there won't be delays of next launch from Vostochniy slated for 22nd December after all

    Also all ground infrastructure there worked without a problem

    http://www.interfax.ru/russia/590042
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:04 am

    Where can I apply to be a russian rocket assembler where I work 2 days per week, apparently dont need a clean record or good education and jam sensors upside down for a good wage? What a Face :sarcasm:
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:22 am

    Latest word of Fregat issue on the recent failed launch. Clearly a failure of project administration and an artefact of the brain drain of 90s & 00s. In the old days, senior engineers would have been all over this, but nowadays it seems the industry lacks the old-timers who knew their craft, and there is a gulf between non-technical business managers and the relatively-young Engineers working at the coal-face.

    In the days following the November 28 accident, Russian space officials and the wider engineering space community also did some soul-searching on the underlining causes leading to the bizarre error during the launch. First of all, a number of experts, pointed out that the overall cause of the accident was a rare confluence of rotation angles within the gyroscopic system of the Fregat upper stage which had not been accounted for in the software of its onboard flight control computer. Such a confluence could only be generated by the particular navigational situation in Vostochny and had never been encountered during the previous 66 launches of Soyuz-2 rockets from Baikonur, Plesetsk and Kourou.

    According to a post on the online forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine, the Fregat stage for the ill-fated first mission from Vostochny was originally built for the launch of the Rezonans scientific satellites from Baikonur.

    At the same time, experts agree that the problem could theoretically have been resolved before launch, if not for the poor coordination between the developers of the flight control systems of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle and their colleagues working on flight controls for the Fregat. As one poster on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum noted: in the deluge of pre-launch paperwork between RKTs Progress in Samara, which built Soyuz-2, and NPO Lavochkin, which developed Fregat, discussing a multitude of legal issues, confirming and reconfirming various agreements and reminders, there was not a single memo attracting the developers’ attention to a different alignment of the launch pad in Vostochny from that of other sites. Obviously, such information was buried in the working documentation on the mission, but nobody thought about the effect of this fact on the launch. The lower echelon of engineers simply missed that detail, while top managers had no idea at all, because, the majority of them lacked the necessary qualifications, the poster said…


    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/meteor-m2-1.html#1203

    I modify my comments made earlier about someone losing their job, unless that job is some mid-high level managerial piece of useless deadwood sponging off the public purse.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:25 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Where can I apply to be a russian rocket assembler where I work 2 days per week, apparently dont need a clean record or good education and jam sensors upside down for a good wage? What a Face :sarcasm:

    Where can I apply to be a Ukrainian rocket assembler where I work 0 (*) days per week, apparently dont need a clean record or good education and jam sensors upside down for a shit wage?

    (*) No actual rockets to assemble, so stay home until called....

    Sarcasm not intended... Very Happy
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:42 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:Latest word of Fregat issue on the recent failed launch.  Clearly a failure of project administration and an artefact of the brain drain of 90s & 00s.  In the old days, senior engineers would have been all over this, but nowadays it seems the industry lacks the old-timers who knew their craft, and there is a gulf between non-technical business managers and the relatively-young Engineers working at the coal-face.

    In the days following the November 28 accident, Russian space officials and the wider engineering space community also did some soul-searching on the underlining causes leading to the bizarre error during the launch. First of all, a number of experts, pointed out that the overall cause of the accident was a rare confluence of rotation angles within the gyroscopic system of the Fregat upper stage which had not been accounted for in the software of its onboard flight control computer. Such a confluence could only be generated by the particular navigational situation in Vostochny and had never been encountered during the previous 66 launches of Soyuz-2 rockets from Baikonur, Plesetsk and Kourou.

    According to a post on the online forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine, the Fregat stage for the ill-fated first mission from Vostochny was originally built for the launch of the Rezonans scientific satellites from Baikonur.

    At the same time, experts agree that the problem could theoretically have been resolved before launch, if not for the poor coordination between the developers of the flight control systems of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle and their colleagues working on flight controls for the Fregat. As one poster on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum noted: in the deluge of pre-launch paperwork between RKTs Progress in Samara, which built Soyuz-2, and NPO Lavochkin, which developed Fregat, discussing a multitude of legal issues, confirming and reconfirming various agreements and reminders, there was not a single memo attracting the developers’ attention to a different alignment of the launch pad in Vostochny from that of other sites. Obviously, such information was buried in the working documentation on the mission, but nobody thought about the effect of this fact on the launch. The lower echelon of engineers simply missed that detail, while top managers had no idea at all, because, the majority of them lacked the necessary qualifications, the poster said…


    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/meteor-m2-1.html#1203

    I modify my comments made earlier about someone losing their job, unless that job is some mid-high level managerial piece of useless deadwood sponging off the public purse.

    Discussions between company lawyers have next to nothing to do with the jobs of the engineers. Any engineer working at this shop would
    have known to change the flight control parameters if they were actually qualified for their jobs. Looks like the project managers are
    unqualified hacks and never established a project branch to deal with this "technical" issue. BTW, this is not just Russia's problem.
    It is popular in Canada and elsewhere to use managers with zero knowledge of the work they oversee. Supposedly the skills that
    managers have are so universal they do not need to know any technical details. Utter nonsense theory, of course. And we seem
    to see the result of this theory in practice in this case. (Once again, Russia imports some fad from the west and f*cks itself in the a**).
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:33 pm


    All Soyuz launches with Fregat upper stage have been delayed, including one from Vostochnii (Spring 2018 next possible date)

    Thank you morons...

    https://iz.ru/679446/dmitrii-strugovetc-sergei-valchenko/rossiiskaia-kosmicheskaia-programma-uletela-v-budushchee
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:28 pm

    the theory too that you need to pay people more for better quality is also a sham too, and that is evident even with India's space program. It really has more to do with lack of oversight and proper management, along with QC. You would think with modern technology it would be easier, but it isn't. Instead, there is a lot of oversight that needs to be dealt with.

    They will continue experimenting with different ideas to fix these issues till they finally find that "one" that will work. Of course it will end up costing a lot over time and hurting reputation, but what is more important is for the domestic launches.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:14 am

    miketheterrible wrote:the theory too that you need to pay people more for better quality is also a sham too, and that is evident even with India's space program.  It really has more to do with lack of oversight and proper management, along with QC.  You would think with modern technology it would be easier, but it isn't.  Instead, there is a lot of oversight that needs to be dealt with.

    They will continue experimenting with different ideas to fix these issues till they finally find that "one" that will work.  Of course it will end up costing a lot over time and hurting reputation, but what is more important is for the domestic launches.

    You need to pay new people more money because old people have developed a case of ego.

    Paying old people more is flushing money down the toilet. Pay new people more and get rid of old ones who have track record of fucking up.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:42 pm


    Roscosmos named the cause of the launch failure from Vostochny

    Crash of the upper stage (RB) "Fregat" with 19 satellites that were launched from the Vostochny cosmodrome rocket "Soyuz-2.1 b" November 28, 2017, due to the fact that the unit control system has calculated the rotation in the wrong direction.....

    http://tass.ru/kosmos/4803877




    Rogozin however calls bullshit on the Roskosmos report (and rightly so):

    "
    According to the Vice-Premier of the government, insights on this situation can only be done after the establishment of the exact error and the responsible individuals......

    ....The results of operation of the emergency Commission of the Russian space Agency can not be considered complete, up to the end objective, because it does not answer the main question - as could be allowed such an error in the calculation and who is responsible for this", he said..........

    http://tass.ru/kosmos/4806385





    Preliminary design of the rocket "Soyuz-5" has been approved

    http://tass.ru/kosmos/4806797




    Russia to start building launch pad for Angara rocket in 2018

    Russian will begin building a launch pad for the new generation space rocket Angara at the Vostochny spaceport early next year....

    (Yes, they typed ''Russian''  Rolling Eyes  )

    http://tass.com/science/977754
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:10 pm

    Soyuz MS-07 with three crew members gets to orbit

    Russian cosmonaut Anton Shkaplerov (crew’s captain), NASA astronaut Scott Tingle, and JAXA astronaut Norishige Kanai are heading for the International Space Station

    BAIKONUR /Kazakhstan/, December 17. /TASS/. Piloted Soyuz MS-07 with three members of a new expedition to the International Space Station (ISS), which took off Baikonur, has reached the orbit and begun a flight to ISS, Russia’s space authority Roskosmos said on Sunday.

    The carrier took off Baikonur at 10:21 Moscow time. On board the ship, heading for the International Space Station, are Russian cosmonaut Anton Shkaplerov (crew’s captain), NASA astronaut Scott Tingle, and JAXA astronaut Norishige Kanai.

    Soyuz will be flying to ISS for two days. The spacecraft is due to dock ISS on December 19 at 11:42 Moscow time.

    At the Station, the crew will work with Progress MS cargo ships, with the U.S. Dragon spacecraft, will make scientific research and experiments and will have a few spacewalks.


    More:
    http://tass.com/science/981550


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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Project Canada on Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:46 am


    Contact Lost With 1st Angolan Satellite That Was Launched From Baikonur - Source


    A Zenit carrier rocket with Angola's first satellite AngoSat-1 was launched from the Baikonur spaceport in Kazakhstan on December 26.
    A source told Sputnik that contact had been lost with Angola's first satellite, AngoSat-1, launched on Tuesday from the Baikonur spaceport.
    "The 'Fregat' upper-stage rocket regularly got in touch with the Angolan satellite in a normal mode after the first round along the Earth's orbit, all systems worked properly, but later contact was lost and the telemetry ceased to arrive," the source said.
    According to the source, the AngoSat-1 is likely to be recognized as inoperable.
    A Zenit carrier rocket with Angola's satellite was launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan after being postponed several times. Initially, it was planned that the satellite would be sent into orbit this summer, then the launch date was set for September. It was subsequently rescheduled for October, November and then December.
    The rocket placed the satellite into the planned orbit and the satellite separated from the transfer orbit stage, according to the representative of Russia's Roscosmos State Corporation.
    The AngoSat-1 project is a communications satellite with a geostationary orbit which was built by Russia's RSC Energia company. The project has been underway since 2012.
    [size]
    NATO has a secret super weapon for Space denial and theyre using it to sabotage Russian space launches to smear reputation of Roscosmos, this is probably part of their bigger destroy Russia's  economy campaign. [/size]
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:32 pm

    Project Canada wrote:.............
    NATO has a secret super weapon for Space denial and theyre using it to sabotage Russian space launches to smear reputation of Roscosmos, this is probably part of their bigger destroy Russia's  economy campaign. 

    Yes, it's called Roskosmos' incompetent personnel.

    Rogozin said he is not satisfied with report on previous fuckup and that he wants names of morons responsible. They refused to give names.

    Hopefully after this latest fuckup we will finally get some names. That good-old-boys club needs to be assraped into discipline.




    Zenit is Ukranian rocket, Baikonur is Kazakh spaceport. Hopefully this will be another motivation for Russian space industry to do what rest of the economy has been doing for years:



    Vostochnii Spaceport, Angara, Soyuz 1, Soyuz-5, Federation capsule and good old boot-up-the-ass. I know it's supposed to be rocket science but it's actually really simple..
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:49 pm

    I don't accept that a satellite that has just passed a series of hardware, software and integration tests can possibly lose telemetry within hours of final separation from its upper stage....

    If this report is in fact true (and I'll withhold judgement until the news comes from a reputable agency, not some anonymous "source") then WTF is going on?  This sort of shit simply does not happen to others.  It's not "incompetence" or "corruption".  There are other mechanisms at work here.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:36 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:I don't accept that a satellite that has just passed a series of hardware, software and integration tests can possibly lose telemetry within hours of final separation from its upper stage....

    If this report is in fact true (and I'll withhold judgement until the news comes from a reputable agency, not some anonymous "source") then WTF is going on?  This sort of shit simply does not happen to others. It's not "incompetence" or "corruption".  There are other mechanisms at work here.


    It's precisely what it is. Equipment fails because someone fucked up during manufacture or installation. Humans handle both.

    This shit does not happen to others because others immediately produce list of names of people who fuck up unlike Roskosmos where they close ranks to cover their own asses.

    One more thing: others don't have their space industry strewn across 2 continents, 3 countries and 500 separate companies and subcontractors.

    It's all nice and centralized. Everywhere from NASA and CNSA to SpaceX and Indian Space Research Organization, it's always one tightly supervised entity.

    But with Russia you have one massive fucking anarchy where everyone does whatever the fuck he wants and nobody is ever responsible for anything.

    Trust me, they would love for people to once again swallow fairytale how there are ''other mechanisms at work here''. Horseshit!!!

    Why are there never fuckups like this on Plasetsk even though they use identical equipment as Roskosmos? Supervision and list of names, that's why.

    Names. List. Now. Rogozin said it already.

    No excuses.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:12 pm

    If someone fucked up during manufacture or installation it would be detected during spacecraft testing (which should be rigorous and arduous). I might accept a spacecraft suffering progressive failures after several years in service (especially if they are using non-hardened electronics due to sanctions BS), but not from a brand-new recently tested bird within hours of orbital insertion.

    Computer fault? Battery problem? Nope, not buying it. Computers and power systems are redundant, as are transmitters/receivers. This smells bad.

    BTW I agree with your other comments. Military QA/QC inspectors have eliminated a lot of problems in national security payloads (still not perfect however), and the same level of rigorous oversight needs to be applied to national civilian and international/commercial missions. Failures like this are UN-FUCKING-ACCEPTABLE.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:02 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:I don't accept that a satellite that has just passed a series of hardware, software and integration tests can possibly lose telemetry within hours of final separation from its upper stage....

    If this report is in fact true (and I'll withhold judgement until the news comes from a reputable agency, not some anonymous "source") then WTF is going on?  This sort of shit simply does not happen to others. It's not "incompetence" or "corruption".  There are other mechanisms at work here.


    It's precisely what it is. Equipment fails because someone fucked up during manufacture or installation. Humans handle both.

    This shit does not happen to others because others immediately produce list of names of people who fuck up unlike Roskosmos where they close ranks to cover their own asses.

    One more thing: others don't have their space industry strewn across 2 continents, 3 countries and 500 separate companies and subcontractors.

    It's all nice and centralized. Everywhere from NASA and CNSA to SpaceX and Indian Space Research Organization, it's always one tightly supervised entity.

    But with Russia you have one massive fucking anarchy where everyone does whatever the fuck he wants and nobody is ever responsible for anything.

    Trust me, they would love for people to once again swallow fairytale how there are ''other mechanisms at work here''. Horseshit!!!

    Why are there never fuckups like this on Plasetsk even though they use identical equipment as Roskosmos? Supervision and list of names, that's why.

    Names. List. Now. Rogozin said it already.

    No excuses.


    You have been pushing your BS theory about how Russians are grossly incompetent since the beginning.

    Put up, or shut up. You know precisely f*ck all about the cases involved and are making the typical NATO
    drone f*cktard conclusions based on MSM conditioning.

    At least others have the indirect evidence that Russians can produced world leading technology. Yet you
    want us to believe they are mud hut dwellers who don't know how to use it. Obviously your line of
    "thinking" is extremely inadequate.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:08 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:I don't accept that a satellite that has just passed a series of hardware, software and integration tests can possibly lose telemetry within hours of final separation from its upper stage....

    If this report is in fact true (and I'll withhold judgement until the news comes from a reputable agency, not some anonymous "source") then WTF is going on?  This sort of shit simply does not happen to others.  It's not "incompetence" or "corruption".  There are other mechanisms at work here.

    The failure modes are all trivial level. This is actual information about what is going on. Russians make advanced tech, but screwup the Mickey
    Mouse operation details. Only NATO residents can swallow such BS.

    NATO has had since before 1991 to extend its corrupt influence inside Russia. It leveraged the anti-communist sentiments back during the 1980s
    and now leverages similar delusions as seen in Banderastan. You have examples like Rodchenkov and the whole WADA circus. Roscosmos
    is beyond a doubt infiltrated with scumbags who are engaged in sabotage. It is extremely difficult to weed out low level spies. If all they
    do is engage in an occasional sabotage incident they are not leaving a rich trail of evidence behind them. So Russia needs to up its game
    and videotape 24/7 every part of the rocket and payload. Every computer system must be under 24/7 logging and no root access should
    be granted to any employee. Security at Roscosmos should be specially set up by the FSB and not contracted out.

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