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    Russian-French military cooperation

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    Austin
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:48 am

    Hmm thats nice , Indian Su-30MKI uses Laser INS from French with embedded GPS.
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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:36 am

    Hmm thats nice , Indian Su-30MKI uses Laser INS from French with embedded GPS.

    By GPS do you mean Navstar or Glonass?

    If you mean Navstar, is it military or commercial?

    This new INS system for Russian aircraft will be Glonass military, which while not as accurate as Navstar military is certainly more reliable than Navstar civilian.
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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:43 am

    Between this and the Thales VECTOR 100, France takes over another capability gap.

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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:00 am

    This is good news as ring laser gyros are very useful bits of kit, and can be used on pretty much any platform including aircraft, weapons, land and sea vehicles etc etc.

    Between this and the Thales VECTOR 100, France takes over another capability gap.

    Takes over is a bit of a stretch...

    Before the end of the Cold War US truck designs dominated Soviet truck parks in terms of lend lease as well as licence produced vehicles produced in the Soviet Union under licence.

    When the cold war started there was suddenly a cutoff/disconnnect from the US, but the Soviet Truck industry survived and continued onwards developing new trucks.

    If France wants to help improve the Russian military that is OK.

    If they start getting belligerent and start trying to pull strings to get some control, then those strings can be cut and either that money spent in other countries for the same thing, or spent on a domestic capability.

    Very simply using French material reduces development costs and gets Russia up to speed in terms of new technology. It will be more expensive than if some magic Russian company had kept up with the latest technology, but in the real world where Russian companies have been left behind it offers some a chance to catch up and puts them on a more level playing field than they would be without the partnership with France.

    It is also helping the French, so don't think it is France just doing Russia a favour.

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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  Austin on Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:26 am

    GarryB wrote:By GPS do you mean Navstar or Glonass?

    If you mean Navstar, is it military or commercial?

    I mean Navstar and its commercial , since military signal is not available to India.

    I saw the latest Sigma 95 has embedded GPS and GLONASS receiver , but when these equipment was selected some time back in early 2000 the glonass option was not viable then.

    This is the one MKI uses http://www.sagem-ds.com/spip.php?rubrique51

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    Vladimir79
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    FELIN vs Barmista Warrior Future Soldier System

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:07 am

    FELIN vs Barmista Warrior Future Soldier System

    The program "A soldier of the future", supported by armies of many countries around the world, will help to equip soldiers with the latest technology in order to increase their effectiveness in combat. This program includes the modernization of armaments, not only soldiers, but the technology and body armor, surveillance systems, as well as increasing the mobility of an individual soldier by the presence of individual portable energy sources.

    In the late 1990s, France started the program FELIN, designed to create complex weapons infantryman of the XXI century. FELIN (Fr. abbreviation Fantassin a Equiperments et Liassons Integres) - a set of individual equipment, featuring a modular design and open architecture, the so-called future soldier kit. In Russia it was first shown at MAKS-2009 and even then he drew the attention of our military.

    The head of Russian Armed Forces General Staff, Army General Nikolai Makarov, said that the Ministry of Defense plans to buy several sets of equipment for testing. The kit includes tools FELIN body armor based on his waistcoat and unloading which are mounted armored, backpack with a capacity for potable water, as well as space for the spare stores and hand grenades.



    What is a Russian KBES? The same elements as in FELIN, only domestic production. This battle set the security 6B21 "Permyachka or costume crew BM 6B15" Cowboy ", the machine Nikonov AN94, SVD sniper rifle with a sight 1PN106-01 machine gun panel 'Pecheneg." Fighters can use thermal imaging sight, "Shahin" and TV sight.

    True, it weighs a full set of 36 kg and the other parameters it is not inferior, according to representatives of the Central Scientific Research Institute "Tochmash" French. In addition, "Permyachka" was tested during the fighting in the North Caucasus, where shown, according to experts CRI "Tochmash" very positive results. Moreover, it has developed a promising KBES "Warrior," which will be used all the latest achievements of science and technology, including such popular today nanotechnology.

    What to choose? In economic terms, domestic KBES is much cheaper. Then, as an old Russian proverb says, not all gold that glitters. For example, the former chief weapons of the Armed Forces, Colonel-General Anatoly Sitnov argues that Western military equipment is not better than ours, and sometimes worse.

    No need to believe Hollywood movies, where the Americans or the French war in the desert at 38-40 degrees plus with raised bronevorotnikami dressed as knights in armor vests, special protective clothing, helmets, boots. This gear can not only run but also to breathe, or just sit, Boil, as soft-boiled egg. Or perhaps, hard-boiled. And experts on arms is generally considered that in Western KBES'll either tear armored collar or trim back the helmet, because in certain positions firing lying down, try to raise as an infantryman's head, the helmet certainly rested in the back and collar will slip on the eye.

    And in this situation is very difficult to shoot. The same number of Western vests are inferior to bullet resistance and vitality to domestic developments. Perhaps he was right the head of "Rosoboronexport" Anatoly Isaikin, when, in answer to a question about buying Western weapons, he replied that it was necessary to buy "a certain number of samples for comparative tests." This, he says, is absolutely normal. Already a batch, mass production should be organized in Russia.

    Infantryman can use personal weapons: machine gun FAMAS F1, light machine gun FN Minimi sniper rifle and FR-F2. All these weapons are equipped with new sights and day and night vision, c improved means targeting, as well as small-sized camcorder. Combat helmet kit has built-in communications and optoelectronic processing system and display information. In addition, this helmet is built in a protective mask for use in case of enemy weapons of mass destruction.



    It allows the soldier, not removing it, eat, drink and even smoke what else is good is the system? Using its fighters ever know the exact location of their comrades and the enemy can negotiate without raising his voice even at the strongest din of battle. The weight of the kit is not more than 26 pounds. Well, its value is large enough - about 45 thousand dollars

    Is there a similar development in Russia? There is. At MAKS -2011 exhibition in CRI "Tochmash" was first presented to the new Russian military equipment set soldier (KBES) type "Barmitsa", developed by leading role of the Institute with the participation of more than 20 enterprises of the national defense. The kit, which includes the basic elements of system destruction, protection, management, and life-energy, aroused great interest among domestic and foreign experts, media representatives and visitors.


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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:08 am

    I post about the new Future Soldier and I get no replies? At least Garry!
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:40 am

    Sorry Vlad, I did read it and found it interesting, but it lacks details.

    If it had direct comparisons between FELIN and the 36kg Russian version, then there would be more to talk about.

    It mentions that the Russian body armour is better, but that could be an area where the French have made weight saving decisions to keep overall weight low.
    It mentions the Russian domestic model is cheaper, which perhaps suggests a combined French Russian set for export to third countries to reduce costs and improve sales potential.

    It is just hard to make a comparison without details and specifications of each set.
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    Vladimir79
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    Russian Military plans to buy 100 French Helicopters

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:41 pm

    Russian Military plans to buy 100 French Helicopters



    MOSCOW, February 22 (RIA Novosti)

    The Russian Defense Ministry is planning to buy at least 45 light multipurpose helicopters from a foreign manufacturer, Vedomosti daily said on Wednesday.

    The paper cited a defense industry source as saying that a contract worth over 6 billion rubles ($201 mln) for the purchase of fifteen AS350 and thirty AS355 Ecureil helicopters made by Eurocopter is in the works.

    The Defense Ministry may order a total of 100 helicopters of this type mainly for training purposes.
    A joint venture with Eurocopter could be set up for the assembly of AS350/355 in Russia, the source said.

    The purchase of light helicopters abroad shows the urgent need for light helicopters by the Russian military, as domestic Ansats and Ka-226s are just entering the market while the Mi-34 is still under testing.

    The Eurocopter AS350 is a single-engined light helicopter while the AS355 is a twin-engine variant. Both versions have been produced since the mid-1970s and sales remain strong.

    Russian Military Plans to Buy Foreign Helicopters – Media | Defense | RIA Novosti
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    TR1
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:56 pm

    So far the number floated has been 15 single engine, and 30 twin engine.

    For training I don't see why they would go to Eurocopter. Ansat-U has already been entering service specifically for training.

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    Whats the reason for this purchase?

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:40 am

    It seems they have gone really frenchy. Are they going to put these on the mistral tongue
    Its seems pretty impratical for any military situation, well except giving generals and high rankers new cars to drive in.
    I dont see any mutual benefit between Russia and France, it just seems like a russian handout to france.
    If they really wanted a light helicopter they should have gone with and amerikanyet UH-6M.
    This money to buy that eurocopter should be going in russian plants so people in russian would benefit from their taxes not the frenchies
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:18 am

    American would not really have been an option as there would be too many strings attached... you don't buy American weapons... you rent them.

    I rather suspect this purchase of French Helos is part of a larger cooperation agreement, and I suspect it is a stopgap measure till the new Mi-34C1 finishes testing and is ready for full scale production in a couple of years time.

    In the past such a role has been performed by the Mi-2, but it was produced in what is now a foreign country, so they might as well buy from France for the moment.

    When the Russian helos are ready for mass production they can use the excuse that these French helos were designed in the 1970s and need replacing, despite being new production models.

    The production facilities set up to make these helos could be used to produce the new Russian models in the future.

    I am sure the French helo maker needs the business right now.
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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:14 am

    These helicopters are a different lift class above the Mi-34's little engine. Mi-34 is strictly for training while the French helos are actually light utility copters. I expect they will fill a stopgap role in the LUH.

    Mi-2 is coming back in China with a JV production facility there. It is the same lift class as these choppers but it must not meet modern standards to be inducted.

    French Eurocopter is the biggest maker of helicopters in the world. They don't need the business. We certainly do... censored

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    Re: Russian-French military cooperation

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:02 am

    i think a primary problem for light Russian helos has been the fact that it has been an area largely ignored by Mil and Kamov.

    I think the Ka-225 is brilliant, and there are designs by Irkut like the Aktai and Ansat that look like world class modern designs.

    I think the main problem is delivery time.

    It appears to me from the articles posted that they have chosen these French helos as mature designs that are ready to get rapidly into production.

    With the joint venture they will end up with 100 odd French helos along with production facilities to build their own helo designs.

    The main problem I see is that they are investing in French helicopters from the 1970s when they should be investing in new Russian designs.

    The ANSAT is probably in a slightly heavier weight class, and the Aktai is probably a bit light.

    Looking at this article:

    Mi-34C1 snags first orders

    Mi-34C1The key current light helicopter programme being pursued by the Russian Helicopters holding company is the resumed production of the heavily upgraded Mil Mi-34C1 by the Progress aircraft company in the town of Arsenyev. New helicopter features the advanced M9FV piston engine, an up-to-date avionics suite and a number of design and systems improvements aimed at enhancing the operating efficiency and reliability as well as extending the service life of the aircraft. This, coupled with a reasonable price, is going to help the Mi-34C1 to get a good niche on the market.


    Russian Helicopters Mi-34C1 programme manager Dmitry Rodin told Take-off that Mil Helicopter Plant now completing two Mi-34C1 prototypes. One of them, the OP-1, is slated for the maiden flight in June to be followed by the other, the OP-2. Both Mi-34C1 prototypes will be displayed during the MAKS 2011 air show in August, one to be demonstrated as part of the flight programme and the other as a static display. The Mi-34C1 is to complete its certification programme by year-end.

    On 19 May, during the HeliRussia 2011, the Russian Helicopters holding company landed its first order for the advanced machine after the launch customer UTair had placed an order for ten Mi-34C1 helicopters for its training centre. The deliveries are slated to kick off in 2012. In addition, the show saw an agreement signed by the French company Aero Progress, the latter intent on promoting the Mi-34C1 on the European market. The signatories believe the helicopter can be needed in the West, since it features a number of advantages over the popular Eurocopter EC120. The first two Mi-34C1s are planned for delivery to the French company in 2013.

    Source: http://en.take-off.ru/news/102-feb2011/616-mi-34c1snagsfirstorders-20-2011

    I suspect it might be a reciprocal agreement where Russia buys these two French helos and France helps market Mi-34Cs for the lighter helicopter market in Europe.

    As long as the French helos are made in Russia in a factory Russia gets to keep then I think this could be good for both parties.

    Certainly when compared with other areas of the Russian MIC the Russian helicopter industry actually appears to be relatively healthy and will likely deliver over 500 helicopters to the Russian military alone by 2020, and exports in some weight classes is very good.

    New Helos like the Mi-34C and the Berkut offer potential in the light and very light helicopter market with very competitive prices.

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