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    Russian - French military cooperation:

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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian - French military cooperation:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:18 pm

    American would not really have been an option as there would be too many strings attached... you don't buy American weapons... you rent them.

    I rather suspect this purchase of French Helos is part of a larger cooperation agreement, and I suspect it is a stopgap measure till the new Mi-34C1 finishes testing and is ready for full scale production in a couple of years time.

    In the past such a role has been performed by the Mi-2, but it was produced in what is now a foreign country, so they might as well buy from France for the moment.

    When the Russian helos are ready for mass production they can use the excuse that these French helos were designed in the 1970s and need replacing, despite being new production models.

    The production facilities set up to make these helos could be used to produce the new Russian models in the future.

    I am sure the French helo maker needs the business right now.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian - French military cooperation:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:14 pm

    These helicopters are a different lift class above the Mi-34's little engine. Mi-34 is strictly for training while the French helos are actually light utility copters. I expect they will fill a stopgap role in the LUH.

    Mi-2 is coming back in China with a JV production facility there. It is the same lift class as these choppers but it must not meet modern standards to be inducted.

    French Eurocopter is the biggest maker of helicopters in the world. They don't need the business. We certainly do... censored


    GarryB
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    Re: Russian - French military cooperation:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:02 pm

    i think a primary problem for light Russian helos has been the fact that it has been an area largely ignored by Mil and Kamov.

    I think the Ka-225 is brilliant, and there are designs by Irkut like the Aktai and Ansat that look like world class modern designs.

    I think the main problem is delivery time.

    It appears to me from the articles posted that they have chosen these French helos as mature designs that are ready to get rapidly into production.

    With the joint venture they will end up with 100 odd French helos along with production facilities to build their own helo designs.

    The main problem I see is that they are investing in French helicopters from the 1970s when they should be investing in new Russian designs.

    The ANSAT is probably in a slightly heavier weight class, and the Aktai is probably a bit light.

    Looking at this article:

    Mi-34C1 snags first orders

    Mi-34C1The key current light helicopter programme being pursued by the Russian Helicopters holding company is the resumed production of the heavily upgraded Mil Mi-34C1 by the Progress aircraft company in the town of Arsenyev. New helicopter features the advanced M9FV piston engine, an up-to-date avionics suite and a number of design and systems improvements aimed at enhancing the operating efficiency and reliability as well as extending the service life of the aircraft. This, coupled with a reasonable price, is going to help the Mi-34C1 to get a good niche on the market.


    Russian Helicopters Mi-34C1 programme manager Dmitry Rodin told Take-off that Mil Helicopter Plant now completing two Mi-34C1 prototypes. One of them, the OP-1, is slated for the maiden flight in June to be followed by the other, the OP-2. Both Mi-34C1 prototypes will be displayed during the MAKS 2011 air show in August, one to be demonstrated as part of the flight programme and the other as a static display. The Mi-34C1 is to complete its certification programme by year-end.

    On 19 May, during the HeliRussia 2011, the Russian Helicopters holding company landed its first order for the advanced machine after the launch customer UTair had placed an order for ten Mi-34C1 helicopters for its training centre. The deliveries are slated to kick off in 2012. In addition, the show saw an agreement signed by the French company Aero Progress, the latter intent on promoting the Mi-34C1 on the European market. The signatories believe the helicopter can be needed in the West, since it features a number of advantages over the popular Eurocopter EC120. The first two Mi-34C1s are planned for delivery to the French company in 2013.

    Source: http://en.take-off.ru/news/102-feb2011/616-mi-34c1snagsfirstorders-20-2011

    I suspect it might be a reciprocal agreement where Russia buys these two French helos and France helps market Mi-34Cs for the lighter helicopter market in Europe.

    As long as the French helos are made in Russia in a factory Russia gets to keep then I think this could be good for both parties.

    Certainly when compared with other areas of the Russian MIC the Russian helicopter industry actually appears to be relatively healthy and will likely deliver over 500 helicopters to the Russian military alone by 2020, and exports in some weight classes is very good.

    New Helos like the Mi-34C and the Berkut offer potential in the light and very light helicopter market with very competitive prices.

    George1
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    Re: Russian - French military cooperation:

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:57 am

    France Wants More Aerospace Cooperation With Russia - Air Show Chairman

    The French aerospace industry hopes to continue cooperation with their Russian colleagues despite the current tensions between Moscow and some Western countries.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — France hopes to secure increased aerospace engineering collaboration with Russia despite the apparent deterioration of relations between Russia and the West, Paris Air Show chairman Emeric d'Arcimoles said Tuesday.

    The European Union, the United States and a number of their allies imposed economic sanctions on Russia last year, after the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea rejoined Russia in March 2014 following a referendum.

    "Today's environment cannot create obstacles for [our] cooperation with the Russian aerospace industry. We will find the answers to all the questions. The French aerospace industry wants to continue cooperation with that of Russia," d'Arcimoles told journalists in Moscow.

    Earlier on Tuesday, d'Arcimoles said that French companies are looking to help Russia's Sukhoi aircraft manufacturer to modernize their Superjet 100 airliner.

    Paris Air Show managing director Gilles Fournier said during the same press conference that 42 countries are expected to take part in this year's show, due to be held at the Le Bourget Airport on June 15-21.

    Fournier added that Russia will send a larger delegation this year than in 2013, when the Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jet made its debut at a Western show.

    As of now more than 20 Russian companies, including the Federal Space Agency Roscosmos and state-run arms trader Rosoboronexport, are among the 2015 exhibitors, according to the show's official website.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150331/1020252940.html#ixzz3VyHita6Q

    flamming_python
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    Re: Russian - French military cooperation:

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:38 pm

    George1 wrote:France Wants More Aerospace Cooperation With Russia - Air Show Chairman

    The French aerospace industry hopes to continue cooperation with their Russian colleagues despite the current tensions between Moscow and some Western countries.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — France hopes to secure increased aerospace engineering collaboration with Russia despite the apparent deterioration of relations between Russia and the West, Paris Air Show chairman Emeric d'Arcimoles said Tuesday.

    The European Union, the United States and a number of their allies imposed economic sanctions on Russia last year, after the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea rejoined Russia in March 2014 following a referendum.

    "Today's environment cannot create obstacles for [our] cooperation with the Russian aerospace industry. We will find the answers to all the questions. The French aerospace industry wants to continue cooperation with that of Russia," d'Arcimoles told journalists in Moscow.

    Earlier on Tuesday, d'Arcimoles said that French companies are looking to help Russia's Sukhoi aircraft manufacturer to modernize their Superjet 100 airliner.

    Paris Air Show managing director Gilles Fournier said during the same press conference that 42 countries are expected to take part in this year's show, due to be held at the Le Bourget Airport on June 15-21.

    Fournier added that Russia will send a larger delegation this year than in 2013, when the Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jet made its debut at a Western show.

    As of now more than 20 Russian companies, including the Federal Space Agency Roscosmos and state-run arms trader Rosoboronexport, are among the 2015 exhibitors, according to the show's official website.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150331/1020252940.html#ixzz3VyHita6Q

    lol @ France

    How about going ahead and delivering them Mistrals that Russia paid you for already - first?

    GarryB
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    Re: Russian - French military cooperation:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:40 am

    Yeah... a bit silly claiming you want more cooperation when you are the one that cut off that cooperation yourself.

    I rather suspect the Russians will be rather more careful in future regarding cooperation in light of their experience with Mistral.


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