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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

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    tanino

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  tanino on Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:33 pm

    I follow with great interest your discussions. I am Italian journalist and infographic and professional defense sector. Yes, in the past the Russian products were seen as essential, and not beautiful. nice defense concept is relative, just that they work well ...
    Recent years greatly improved recovery in this sector, just see the Russians stand in the exhibitions. It 's true, very beginners marketing Russians (just look photo t-14 armed first show 70 years) in the US this impossible.
    (Better make shitty product but presented as the best) But this I see as positive for Russia, and legendary. Among many years we all remember with love and respect to the first pictures of T-14 or T-50, for example, first flights. (what memories!). In a few years, even the presentations will be better. The problem is another. Greetings to all from Italy.

    tanino

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  tanino on Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:17 pm

    I watched the video interior Armata. Many improvements in the man-machine relationship visual (my job) but,
    the problem is that for more generations were only and exclusively managed at levels of importance (hierarchy). You are running too quickly, missing a generation of soldiers analyze the data. Who does it now must double toil. But the Russian soldiers are learning fast. And Russian programmers more good than Californians. Three years and the same level. How data presentation instead 10 years late.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:01 pm

    tanino wrote:I watched the video interior Armata. Many improvements in the man-machine relationship visual (my job) but,
    the problem is that for more generations were only and exclusively managed at levels of importance (hierarchy). You are running too quickly, missing a generation of soldiers analyze the data. Who does it now must double toil. But the Russian soldiers are learning fast. And Russian programmers more good than Californians. Three years and the same level. How data presentation instead 10 years late.

    Not sure if I understand your post: How data presentation instead 10 years late ? As fpr programmers they never were bad so not sure what is this refering to:

    Three years and the same level


    of course Italian praising Russian design must be taken as a compliment Smile

    tanino

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  tanino on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:34 pm

    Sorry, data presentation looks at the T-50. On the screens they are shown the old analog-style circular paintings, artificial horizon etc. type. It takes some time to accustom pilots and engineers to view and interpret the data.
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:28 pm

    The artificial horison and other instruments are standardised pilots instruments and show a variety of data all at once in a way pilots are already trained to interpret... it is how they expect to see the information so it makes sense to display it that way.

    You will find the same screens and symbology on all western aircraft too... though of course Russian units will be metric...


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    tanino

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  tanino on Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:44 am

    Hello Garry! an interesting topic. We could open a new post. Data visualization in the Russian armed forces and make the right analysis. You are right, if they are 20 years you read and analyze electro-optical instruments and mechanical dials and you have to fly ...
    There is a Russian school? (See for example the color cream / beige used in the navy on almost all control Panel). Interesting!
    Greeting from Italy
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    franco

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  franco on Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:56 pm

    For all you techie folks, Topwar has an article out comparing the shape and sizes of the T-14 with the T-90 and the main Western Tanks.
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:07 am

    One of the papers I did at university was on Human Computer Interaction, which included hardware and software and how it is used.

    Two examples stick to my memory... the first is in front of you.

    The Qwerty keyboard was originally designed for a manual mechanical keyboard and when the key layout was determined it was layed out to slow down the typist. commonly used letters from the most commonly used words are to the left and layed out so the typist does not lock the arms of the typewriter and then have to stop typing to separate the arms.

    Obviously with electronic keyboards this is no longer an issue and there are plenty of new keyboard layouts, which when mastered should allow much higher typing speeds but no one will adopt them because the cost it would take to retrain all your existing typists and any new typists you hire.

    Another example would be in late model spitfires where they decided to introduce a new layout for instruments and controls and they found that many of their best pilots were bailing out during combat.

    it seems they decided that the bailout button would need to be used in an emergency so they moved it to where the firing button was previously. In combat pilots would forget the button had been moved and press the bailout button.

    Learned behaviour often kicks in in periods of stress so having familiar controls and symbols and displays is important.

    Of course in the Armata many of the features and displays will be more for information than for action as most problems will likely be sorted out automatically.

    The crew are in a separate capsule so they wont be able to do many things manually that they could when they were in the turret.

    The next step will be visual displays in helmets with camera views building up a 360 degree day night all weather view of the outside of the tank with each crewman having their current outside view displayed on screens in front of their eyes based on their position in the tank and the orientation of their heads. this would give the effect of seeming to be able to see through the vehicle things outside the vehicle... like a computer game.

    Would be interesting to see an RPG coming in and slamming into the armour in front of you...


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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:10 am

    This is directed towards Mike E, a correction on the number of gears forward and backward. So one of you older posts stated that Armata platform has 4 gears forward and backward, I read somewhere some 5-6 months back that it was actually 8 gears forward and backward. Though I sat on the response, because I wasn't sure if the article was a victim of a bad machine translation, so I gave your word the benefit of the doubt, but yes indeed it's been confirmed that Armata has both 8 gears forward and 8 gears backward. Just a minor correction.
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    Mike E

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Mike E on Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:37 am

    It has always been 8 in both directions - not sure why I would have mixed that up.

    Thanks
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:11 am

    Mike E wrote:It has always been 8 in both directions - not sure why I would have mixed that up.

    Thanks

    BTW on Gurkhan's website, there's been rumors that Rhinemetal is looking at a 130mm smooth-bore cannon. Do you think there's any substance to the claim?

    If it's true, then that's quite strange and perplexing, considering that there's apparently already a 140mm cannon already designed ready for service.
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    Mike E

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Mike E on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:17 am

    The image GurKhan showed originated from an official Rheinmettal presentation - so it has basically been confirmed.

    A 130 mm makes a little sense - in that the rounds can be smaller and lighter as well. If they stick with unitary rounds, it makes sense, if not, it doesn't really do much.

    I'm certain it will be ETC-based as well,countries have had the technology for a while now. I think we will see T-14 adopt an ETC very soon as well. In fact, possibly in place of the 152 mm.
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    Militarov

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Militarov on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:33 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Mike E wrote:It has always been 8 in both directions - not sure why I would have mixed that up.

    Thanks

    BTW on Gurkhan's website, there's been rumors that Rhinemetal is looking at a 130mm smooth-bore cannon. Do you think there's any substance to the claim?

    If it's true, then that's quite strange and perplexing, considering that there's apparently already a 140mm cannon already designed ready for service.

    Seems actually that NPzK-140 is dead, as they still want to keep 4 crew members and 140mm ammunition is separate loading ammunition, which means it requires autoloader. So i guess than that is why they want to pursue 130mm guns now, as they are most likely one piece.

    ult

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  ult on Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:29 pm

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    Zivo

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Zivo on Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:09 pm

    ult wrote:

    What's with the exhaust flame on startup?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:19 pm

    Zivo wrote:...................

    What's with the exhaust flame on startup?

    Super stronkk engine!!! Cool
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    Zivo

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Zivo on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:30 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Zivo wrote:...................

    What's with the exhaust flame on startup?

    Super stronkk engine!!! Cool

    I didn't notice the first time, it's actually the APU's exhaust. That makes more sense, short pipe, plus cold start.

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:19 am

    I saw the live firing video of the Armata and it seemed to have had a lot of recoil, and I just don't know why that it is.


    Last edited by Cyrus the great on Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Mike E

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Mike E on Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:22 am

    Some people say barrel or stabilizer trouble with this particular unit, stabilizer was off, etc.

    It is quite clear that the stabilizer was off in both firing videos, the barrel is not 'cushioned' at all.

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:30 am

    Mike E wrote:Some people say barrel or stabilizer trouble with this particular unit, stabilizer was off, etc.

    It is quite clear that the stabilizer was off in both firing videos, the barrel is not 'cushioned' at all.

    They definitely should have fixed any problems with the stabilizer or the barrel before releasing the video.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:26 pm

    Cyrus the great wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Some people say barrel or stabilizer trouble with this particular unit, stabilizer was off, etc.

    It is quite clear that the stabilizer was off in both firing videos, the barrel is not 'cushioned' at all.

    They definitely should have fixed any problems with the stabilizer or the barrel before releasing the video.

    You do know that it's in prototype stage, and not in serial production?
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:05 am

    It might be that they were test firing the barrel without the stabiliser engaged to determine that if can fire without the stabiliser turned on.

    Sort of a worst case accuracy test...


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    George1

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:53 am

    RuMOD to get first test batch of T-14 Armata tanks and T-15 armored vehicles (~20) in 2016-17

    https://twitter.com/KURYERSAT/status/703661237905854464


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    franco

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  franco on Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:05 pm


    Cyrus the great

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:12 am

    GarryB wrote:It might be that they were test firing the barrel without the stabiliser engaged to determine that if can fire without the stabiliser turned on.

    Sort of a worst case accuracy test...


    I can understand why they would do those tests, but why release the video? I just know that I would only release the video when all the integral components have been installed on arguably the best tank in the world.

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