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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:26 pm

    Azi wrote:
    Ok...wait, wait, wait! I Have a great idea! Why not putting a Nudol missile on a Armata??? So you have the best tank in world combined with the ability to intercept ICBM. lol! !

    Call of Duty? Red Alert 2018? when the game is released?
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    eehnie

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  eehnie on Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:14 pm

    Azi wrote:
    eehnie wrote:I expect both the Pantsir and the S-350 to be relevant for this topic, as I expect both to be mounted in the Armata platform.

    Others (you concretely GarryB) introduced in the discussion systems defined as long range air defense (like the S-300). Others said that systems defined like long range air defense systems (like the S-300) will be replaced by systems defined as medium range air defense (like the S-350).

    About the retirement of the S-300 I only will say that the current fleet of SA-10/12/20/23 in the Russian Armed Forces is a 97.18% of the fleet of the Soviet Union in 1991 (of which some units go to Belarus and Ukraine). It has not been a reduction despite the introduction of the S-400.
    Ok...wait, wait, wait! I Have a great idea! Why not putting a Nudol missile on a Armata??? So you have the best tank in world combined with the ability to intercept ICBM. lol!

    Armata is a heavy frontline platform! Armata based AD system would only make sense for a replacement of Tor, Shilka etc. The Buk platform is NOT heavy armoured!!! For a AD system like Buk mobility is more important than armour!

    Advanced medium range (in todays range standards) on land platforms. Nothing rare. This is something Russia did before.

    Every person with a minimun brain and a positive view of Russia would see this with interest. These words paint so well where you are, and are able to put you in a ridiculous position in the near future.
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:15 am

    Armata is a heavy platform designed to operate on the frontline in very dangerous areas like urban combat etc.

    Medium to long range SAMs don't operate any where near the front line as even if the crew are protected by heavy armour their large long range missiles wont be and would be vulnerable to shrapnel and small arms fire.

    Not to mention their support vehicles with radar and other equipment.

    It would be too expensive to put an S-350 battery in Armata based vehicles and of little use because they would operate 50-60km or more behind the front line most of the time. The only threat would be enemy artillery.

    BUK would operate closer but would use mobility to protect itself from enemy attack.


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    flamming_python

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:40 am

    eehnie wrote:I expect both the Pantsir and the S-350 to be relevant for this topic, as I expect both to be mounted in the Armata platform.

    Others (you concretely GarryB) introduced in the discussion systems defined as long range air defense (like the S-300). Others said that systems defined like long range air defense systems (like the S-300) will be replaced by systems defined as medium range air defense (like the S-350).

    About the retirement of the S-300 I only will say that the current fleet of SA-10/12/20/23 in the Russian Armed Forces is a 97.18% of the fleet of the Soviet Union in 1991 (of which some units go to Belarus and Ukraine). It has not been a reduction despite the introduction of the S-400.

    I suspect neither will be; as both are Aerospace Forces systems; a branch that doesnt use the Armata chassis and doesn't need to as it doesn't operate on the front-line.
    Not to mention that an Armata is too small for use as a S-350 launch/reload/radar vehicle.

    What we might well see on Armata sooner or later is a Sosna complex; which is the replacment for the Strela series of short-range missile systems in army service.
    A Tor complex on an Armata is also quite a possibility. We already see Tors on the new Arctic chassis. It looks like they are designed to follow behind the troops pretty closely and keep up with them in all terrain.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:23 pm


    Photos of Armata factory under construction from 6 months ago. It's almost completed now.



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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:27 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Photos of Armata factory under construction from 6 months ago. It's almost completed now.




    A whole new factory how many Armatas are they going to be making?

    Also there are only a few hundred T-90As so are they going to be making T-90AM aswell?

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:38 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Photos of Armata factory under construction from 6 months ago. It's almost completed now.

    ...........

    A whole new factory how many Armatas are they going to be making?

    Also there are only a few hundred T-90As so are they going to be making T-90AM aswell?

    Don't know really, I just found pics.

    But if I had to guess I would say that they will be building plenty. It's not just T-14 MBT but also T-15 IFV and T-16.

    And then you have Koalitsia SPG that will be using same chassis as Armata and quite a few other vehicles down the road using the same thing.

    Add to that the fact that they plan to use Armatas for at least next half a century and new factory makes a lot of sense. Old one is definitely getting long in the tooth. As for T-90s they will probably keep building them in current factory, it will be hot export item for quite some time.
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:48 am

    [quote="PapaDragon"]
    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Photos of Armata factory under construction from 6 months ago. It's almost completed now.

    ...........
    Add to that the fact that they plan to use Armatas for at least next half a century

    If so the T-14 would probably have to go through some serious evolution over the years how easy is it to swap out the base armor?
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    eehnie

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  eehnie on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:10 am

    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Photos of Armata factory under construction from 6 months ago. It's almost completed now.

    ...........
    Add to that the fact that they plan to use Armatas for at least next half a century

    If so the T-14 would probably have to go through some serious evolution over the years how easy is it to swap out the base armor?

    Yes will have, and is having. The time runs, and it makes more likely, as example, to see the T-14 with the 152mm weapon since the begin of the serial production.
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:48 am

    Good experience in Syria will have cemented the reputation of the T-90 as not a vehicle that blows its lid, which should enhance its reputation on the international export market.

    India is going to buy a lot and make some more for itself and i suspect a few other countries in the Middle East might be impressed enough to buy a few as well.

    For Armata every vehicle in an armata division will be Armata based so lots need to be made from engineer vehicles, artillery, air defence, tank, troop transport, recon, etc etc.


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    Militarov

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Militarov on Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:44 pm

    Reading you here, i must conclude that next army field kitchen will be placed on Armata too.
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:03 am

    Well that is the question isn't it...

    When an Armata div moves the whole idea of a shared platform is that they only carry spares and engine parts and kit for armata platform vehicles...

    but with all the transport and support assets... will they also all be armata based or are they detached from the force?

    They found out pretty quickly in Grozny that a column of armoured vehicles normally results in the IFVs getting taken out first from rooftops and basement floors where 125mm main guns can't elevate to hit. Once all those light support vehicles are taken out that leaves tanks, which you can take your time engaging because they can't elevate their guns high enough to get you.

    The purpose of Armata is that all vehicles are armata level protected so trying to pick off the light vehicles is not an issue.

    More importantly, most vehicles will have secondary and primary weapons that can elevate to hit targets on roofs or in basements...


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    Militarov

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:07 am

    GarryB wrote:Well that is the question isn't it...

    When an Armata div moves the whole idea of a shared platform is that they only carry spares and engine parts and kit for armata platform vehicles...

    but with all the transport and support assets... will they also all be armata based or are they detached from the force?

    They found out pretty quickly in Grozny that a column of armoured vehicles normally results in the IFVs getting taken out first from rooftops and basement floors where 125mm main guns can't elevate to hit. Once all those light support vehicles are taken out that leaves tanks, which you can take your time engaging because they can't elevate their guns high enough to get you.

    The purpose of Armata is that all vehicles are armata level protected so trying to pick off the light vehicles is not an issue.

    More importantly, most vehicles will have secondary and primary weapons that can elevate to hit targets on roofs or in basements...

    I dont have the problem with idea of unified platforms, i have problem with people imagining they will build everything on such platform.

    Coalitions resupply vehicle for an example will seems be based on Kamaz truck and not T-14. NBC vehicles that will be part of heavy brigades will be on trucks too.

    I highly doubt recon batallions in heavy brigades will be using anything Armata based as its just too heavy for such roles.

    There is simply no need to put everything on Armata platform, nor it will happen.

    Some ppl here already placed S-500 and Sarmat on Armata.
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:19 am

    There is simply no need to put everything on Armata platform, nor it will happen.

    The purpose is mobility which I suspect is less critical for an armata div than for a lighter div.

    It is supposed to reduce the logistics tail of the force by reducing the number of supported vehicle types.

    New trucks with armata engines and transmissions could be used in that regard, but the combat force itself needs tank level armour and tank level mobility.

    Nudol and Sarmat don't operate at div level and would make no sense to have an armata base vehicle.

    Tochka and Islander wont have them either for all the same reasons.

    Within current divisions there are lots of vehicles based on the BTR, MTLB, and BMP chassis and in this context in an armata division such vehicles would be replaced with armata based vehicles.


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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:36 am

    A loosley Armata based artillery tracktor/command vehicle/SAM chasis would make sense to replace the many lightly aremored vehciles used in artillery and SAM groups but these vehicles would not have composite armor,APS and ERA since they are not for the front line .
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:01 am

    A Russian division whether it is a tank division or a motor rifle division has air defence vehicles organic to it already and in an Armata division it will also have the same vehicles... it tended to have a gun/missile vehicle and a missile only AD vehicle.

    Currently that would be the Tunguska for the gun/missile vehicle and the TOR as the missile only vehicle.

    The Armata div will likely have a Pantsir-S1 vehicle and a TOR-M3 vehicle, both based on the armata chassis and operating with the vehicles it is protecting.

    They will have the same level of armour for the crew as the tank.. including APS and ERA and other features.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:33 pm

    I was refering to vehicles for behind the line use with the coalitsiya SV
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:16 am

    Does the T-14 have a decent air conditioner? A tank cannot operate effectively in any desert environment without one.

    Also what is the gunner sights maximum magnification?
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    0nillie0

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  0nillie0 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:35 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Does the T-14 have a decent air conditioner? A tank cannot operate effectively in any desert environment without one.

    Also what is the gunner sights maximum magnification?

    I am sure somebody pointed out the requirement of an AC unit during design......
    Anyway, T-90MS has an airco unit which was tested in Kuwait, and was already available in 2012. I am sure it worked fine. T-14 might be equipped with a different unit, or maybe the same. Either way it will do what it is supposed to do.

    As for maximum magnification of the gunner sight, this information is unknown (and imho irrelevant to be asking). Even if you find some figures "online", then there is no way of validating them at this time, and they are most likely assumptions anyway. Generally, articles say the gunner sight has 12x magnification for the optical channel. All this has to be put into context, and is quite meaningless...

    There are a lot of meaningless discussions at present here it seems.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:01 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Does the T-14 have a decent air conditioner? A tank cannot operate effectively in any desert environment without one.

    Also what is the gunner sights maximum magnification?

    Dude seriously?

    Of course it has an air-conditioner, it's 21st century FFS...
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:18 pm

    About aircon is it capable of keeping the crew compartment at a nice comfortable -20°C while in a desert?
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    Isos

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  Isos on Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:17 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:About aircon is it capable of keeping the crew compartment at a nice comfortable -20°C while in a desert?

    Russians are not polar bears, you know lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:21 pm

    Yeah I think the Armatas crew comfort is sub par it needs a built in 5 star restaurant and hunting lodge as well as all the rifles you need to hunt down the elusive wild ukropians.

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    ZoA

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  ZoA on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:30 pm

    The-thing-next-door wrote:Yeah I think the Armatas crew comfort is sub par it needs a built in 5 star restaurant and hunting lodge as well as all the rifles you need to hunt down the elusive wild ukropians.

    Yes! And don't forget blackjack and hookers!
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    The-thing-next-door

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:57 pm

    ZoA wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:Yeah I think the Armatas crew comfort is sub par it needs a built in 5 star restaurant and hunting lodge as well as all the rifles you need to hunt down the elusive wild ukropians.

    Yes! And don't forget blackjack and hookers!

    While I would recommend that it get a hotel and casino I think that thoes would not fit and have to be put in a submarine along with a glof course maby?

    I do believe prostitution is a sinful western practice not something that a good christian would ever indulge. Is it even legal in Russia?

    Oh and would you be so kind as to try and keep the jokes short as it would not be good for this thread to get too far off topic.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

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