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    Combat reconnaissance vehicles

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    Mindstorm

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    NPO Strela's SBRM - Service Combat Surveillance Vehicle- Best choice for COIN operations?

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:20 pm




    Lately the urgency to find efficient responses to the terrorist's lead guerrilla operations in urban environment characterizing several nation in the Middle East has put a great emphasis on the possible battlefield value (and possible export potential) of specialized vehicles such as the BMPT "Terminator" and all its possible iterations.

    Strangely it seem that a degree of attention similar to that given to this "kinetic piece" of the puzzling solution to the COIN problem is totally negated to the equally critical battlefield's surveillance and control factor ,so difficult to gain and maintain in urban combat.

    Under this point of view SBRM, a truly unique vehicle without corresponding neither in Russia neither abroad, represent in mine opinion, an almost perfect product for COIN operations ,with the potential for huge demand on the international market.


    Its sensor suit include almost the entire gamut of active and passive detection channels

    - Active radar
    - RWR
    - TV system
    - Thermal
    - Acoustic
    - Seismic
    - Acoustic
    - Magnetometric


    with capability to collect , cross, process and disseminate data coming from all this channels through remotely placed system and mini-UAVs.









    At those outstanding capabilities SBRM add also a

    - A 12,7 mm gun
    - Active jamming of enemy communication and mine's remote trigger
    - A raising mast (to operate in defilade)
    - A class 3 ballistic protection (7,62 mm)


    Its highly integrated search and control capabilities (from detection of the precise position of a group of sniper from its acoustic signature, to the position of moving terrorists at the second level of a ruined building through seismic and thermal channel ,to tracking of a group armed with RPGs on a far terrace through its mini UAVs etc... ) would result in a simply enormous increase of the neutralization rate in COIN , even more if paired with specialized vehicles like BMPT.

    MoD should seriously examine not only the merit of a wide adoption of SBRM ,but also the prompt creation of an exportable model (naturally together with a decoy versions, so to lure enemy groups ,attempting desperate operations to remove the critical piece ,in previously prepared ambushes) ,it would quickly become one of the most demanded piece on offer by Rosoboronexport.
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:45 pm

    I do not know much about the armor on this vehicle but this vehicle will also be ideal for low intensity urban conflict.
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    NickM

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  NickM on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:10 pm

    Sujoy wrote:I do not know much about the armor on this vehicle but this vehicle will also be ideal for low intensity urban conflict.
    Coz you say so ? You my non friend need to do some serious research before you post such comments on an open forum .

    If this vehicle takes a hit from an RPG it will blow the ass off the occupants till kingdom comes .

    Hope you read this - The only vehicle capable of operating in a hostile urban environment and surviving small arm fire is the MRAP .

    http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2007/mrap/

    Only the MRAP can survive IED's and RPGs and also has the firepower to turn the heat on the attackers .
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:38 am

    Mindstorm wrote:


    Lately the urgency to find efficient responses to the terrorist's lead guerrilla operations in urban environment characterizing several nation in the Middle East has put a great emphasis on the possible battlefield value (and possible export potential) of specialized vehicles such as the BMPT "Terminator" and all its possible iterations.

    Strangely it seem that a degree of attention similar to that given to this "kinetic piece" of the puzzling solution to the COIN problem is totally negated to the equally critical battlefield's surveillance and control factor ,so difficult to gain and maintain in urban combat.

    Under this point of view SBRM, a truly unique vehicle without corresponding neither in Russia neither abroad,  represent in mine opinion, an almost perfect product for COIN operations ,with the potential for huge demand on the international market.


    Its sensor suit include almost the entire gamut of active and passive detection channels

    - Active radar
    - RWR
    - TV system
    - Thermal
    - Acoustic
    - Seismic
    - Acoustic
    - Magnetometric


    with capability to collect , cross, process and disseminate data coming from all this channels through remotely placed system and mini-UAVs.






     


    At those outstanding capabilities SBRM add also a

    - A 12,7 mm gun
    - Active jamming of  enemy communication and mine's remote trigger
    - A raising mast (to operate in defilade)
    - A class 3 ballistic protection (7,62 mm)


    Its highly integrated search and control capabilities (from detection of the precise position of a group of sniper from its acoustic signature, to the position of moving terrorists at the second level of a ruined building through seismic and thermal channel ,to tracking of a group armed with RPGs on a far terrace through its mini UAVs etc... ) would result in a simply enormous increase of the neutralization rate in COIN , even more if paired with specialized vehicles like BMPT.

    MoD should seriously examine not only the merit of a wide adoption of SBRM ,but also the prompt creation of an exportable model (naturally together with a decoy versions, so to lure enemy groups ,attempting desperate operations to remove the critical piece ,in previously prepared ambushes) ,it would quickly become one of the most demanded piece on offer by Rosoboronexport.
    Very good Recon vehicle, i remember seing them on MP.net, surprised that the MoD hasn't ordered them in bulk yet. Neutral 
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    GarryB

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:41 am

    I would suggest there is likely already variants of this vehicle already planned in the appropriate chassis.

    There would be little point in having this Tigr based vehicle operating with armata based vehicles, so transfering its equipment and sensors and other bits and bobs to an armata, and a kurganets and a boomerang and a typhoon would make a lot of sense. This light vehicle based version would make a lot of sense for export though any country that already has an equivalent light vehicle might want their vehicle adapted rather than adding a new vehicle type to their fleet. Of course if their existing light vehicle is obsolete they might take the opportunity to replace their entire light armour fleet in which case the Tigr will be fine.


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    TR1

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  TR1 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:49 am

    This thing was ordered by the Interior Ministry. I would imagine army has some different requirements.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:55 am

    Coz you say so ? You my non friend need to do some serious research before you post such comments on an open forum .
    I don't see anything in his post that seems radical... low intensity COIN operations generally rarely involve well equipped professional enemies with plenty of RPGs and explosives for making IEDs.

    Using this vehicle is little different from the US using unarmoured Humvees.

    If this vehicle takes a hit from an RPG it will blow the ass off the occupants till kingdom comes .
    The idea behind all the sensors is to detect threats before they present themselves, plus I rather doubt this vehicle will be operating alone.

    Hope you read this - The only vehicle capable of operating in a hostile urban environment and surviving small arm fire is the MRAP .
    Clearly wrong... hostile environments are not in themselves dangerous... and this vehicle is armoured to protect it from small arms fire.

    Only the MRAP can survive IED's and RPGs and also has the firepower to turn the heat on the attackers .
    An MRAP that can survive RPGs and IEDs of any type does not exist. MRAPs have some capability to protect people inside it from IEDs up to fairly specific size weights but unless you are up against morons the enemy will quickly work out how much explosive they need to get the job done and use that or a little bit more.

    Suggesting that you can design a small light vehicle that is safe from IEDs and RPGs is silly... even 70 ton western tanks are not safe from IEDs and RPGs.

    This thing was ordered by the Interior Ministry. I would imagine army has some different requirements.
    Perhaps similar requirements but based on different vehicle platforms to keep compatibility and commonality.


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    Sujoy

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:44 pm

    NickM wrote:The only vehicle capable of operating in a hostile urban environment and surviving small arm fire is the MRAP .

    Of course ....with some outstanding results cheers 

    Feast your eyes on this







    Seems too many people subscribe to your half baked ideas . Enjoy !

    Mindstorm

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:00 pm

    NickM wrote:
    Coz you say so ? You my non friend need to do some serious research before you post such comments on an open forum .

    If this vehicle takes a hit from an RPG it will blow the ass off the occupants till kingdom comes .

    Hope you read this - The only vehicle capable of operating in a hostile urban environment and surviving small arm fire is the MRAP .

    http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2007/mrap/

    Only the MRAP can survive IED's and RPGs and also has the firepower to turn the heat on the attackers .
    Please NickM , please . We are attempting a serious debate on this subject, ok ?

    You cannot accuse, wrongly, the post of Sujoy of the shallow mistakes contained just in your ! Laughing 


    MRAP are class of vehicles for transport and patrol , strictly designed and optimized to offer good mine/IED resilience.

    Them was urgently ordered by US Army and inducted in the Iraq and Afghanistan theatre of war in response to the very high mortality rate of theirs operatives for effect of the road's side IED and mines placed on patrol route of NATO's forces on the ground.

    That said, its value as fighting vehicles in general and ....even worse...... as fighting vehicle in urban combat against hiding or defilated terrorists armed with PKM and RPG is next to ZERO ! Laughing 

    The STANAG 4569 of typical MRAP vehicles in service fluctuate between 2 and 3 and theirs weapon suit is near to the unarmed ; all of that for about 500.000 US dollar at piece.


    SBRM is an unique SURVEILLANCE vehicle capable to track precisely enemy position using practically any mean and channel for detection - TV, thermal, active radar, passive radar, electro-contrast, magnetometric, seismic, acoustic, UAV, - cross them and generate and disseminate data, for the fighting vehicles and infantry, on the exact position of hidden or defilated enemies.

    An enemy terrorist group, merely moving from a level to another of a far  building, or shooting a single bullet from a broken wall at 1 km of distance, or stationing hidden near a window or attempting to climb on the upper terrace to shot RPG ,would surrender instantly (and unconsciously) theirs position to one of the sensors of the SBRM , allowing a T-72B3 a BMP-3 or BMPT (those are real fighting vehicles.....) or a infantry squad armed with RPO "Shmel" present in the area to easily neutralize the terrorists in a matter of seconds.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:38 pm

    Sounds interesting and promising.

    Like others have already stated that it won't operate alone, obviously, but serve among real armored fighting vehicles.
    However, with all its devices to detect threats in a very wide spectrum that it could be used as a target spotter for AFV/IFV's in low intense battle environment.
    The question is does it have a data link to transfer all necessary digital information of spotted threats to other plattforms?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:22 am

    The question is does it have a data link to transfer all necessary digital information of spotted threats to other platforms?
    All vehicles will be net centric with threats appearing on screens as they are detected/identified.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    Regular

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    Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  Regular on Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:59 pm

    NickM wrote:
    Sujoy wrote:I do not know much about the armor on this vehicle but this vehicle will also be ideal for low intensity urban conflict.
    Coz you say so ? You my non friend need to do some serious research before you post such comments on an open forum .

    If this vehicle takes a hit from an RPG it will blow the ass off the occupants till kingdom comes .

    Hope you read this - The only vehicle capable of operating in a hostile urban environment and surviving small arm fire is the MRAP .

    http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2007/mrap/

    Only the MRAP can survive IED's and RPGs and also has the firepower to turn the heat on the attackers .
    RPG would definitely will be lethal here, but so it is for MRAP vehicles. Tandem warhead will pierce through any MRAP that exists. Ideal vehicle for that is HAPC. But I doubt that this baby will be used like that. If it was created it means there is a need for this type of vehicle, Israel already employs these kind systems and it proven to be successful. I imagine it will be perfect for cordoning/hunting down insurgents while patrolling the border. Those rats tend to hide their arses in the mountains and forests and flee every time it gets hot. Usually there are few terrorists and not an army so finding them is a hard task.

    Not to mention -
    Cost efficiency. By this point even engine consumption matters. Why? It's not Afghanistan- Caucasus isn't war zone. All the bloody work is still done by guys with RPOs and Ak-74s in their hands to minimise collateral damage. People don't live in the mud huts so forget about evacuating all village and wiping it off. There are no tanks on the streets anymore. Most of situations involve interior troops finding insurgents before they do something stupid. People still want to live in that neighbourhood so You can't bomb it or use 125mm around. Even RPO is used when there is no other solution. You want to make sure that there is no one slipping out and well to be honest, most of the weapons they find are makarovs, saw-off, old AKs, hunting rifles, grenades. RPG are rare and if You want to acquire one probably You will stumble FSB insider who will lead operators to Your door step.
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    George1

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:01 am

    This is a vehicle for Airborne forces but i put it here because it has to do with special combat reconnaissance vehicles

    The P-230T control vehicle based on the Tiger-M armored vehicle in the Airborne Forces

    As reported on July 5, 2017 by the Department of Information and Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, during the active phase of the command post exercise with units of the Airborne Forces in the Pskov region, the newest P-230T control vehicle based on the Tiger , Allowing to provide the control point of the airborne commander with a secure communication in the videoconference mode with the commanders of battalions and divisions on the battlefield.

    The control vehicle entered the Airborne Forces of Russia in June 2017. It is equipped with modern telecommunications equipment and allows secure telephone, video conferencing and electronic correspondence not only in the parking lot, but also in traffic.



    The automated workstations in the newest control machine enable the Airborne Force Command to see the operational situation in the task area in real time, and the unit commanders to promptly transmit to the higher headquarters information about the change in the situation.

    The doctrine with the units of the Ulyanovsk and Ivanovo formations are conducted in cooperation with the servicemen of the Pskov Airborne Division with the practical landing of military equipment and personnel parachuting on unfamiliar landing areas. The main task of the landing units in the north-west direction is to resolve the educational situation of an emergency and anti-terrorist nature by force. In the training conducted in accordance with the plan of combat training of the Airborne Forces, more than 40 aircraft and helicopters of the Russian Air Force, Air Force and Air Defense of the Western Military District are involved.

    During the exercise, the paratroopers flew to the places of accomplishment of tasks, conducted airborne assault from personnel and vehicles in various ways, seized airfields and objects of the conventional enemy. The landing was made simultaneously at the landing site of the 76th Division and in the vicinity of the military airfield near the island of the Pskov Region.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2717157.html


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Combat reconnaissance vehicles

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:10 pm


    Russian Armored Vehicles Cross Crimea's Kerch Strait in Historic Re-Enactment
    Activists of Russia’s Military-Technical Society crossed the Kerch Strait in two BRDM-2 amphibious armored personnel carriers on July 23. The event was dedicated to the liberation of Crimea from fascists.

    According to Alexei Migalen, the president of the Military-Technical Society, the event called 'Kerch Landing. The Road of Courage' honored the 1943 Kerch-Eltigensky landing operation to liberate the Crimean peninsula from German fascist invaders. The armored vehicles covered 15 kilometers in almost three hours. One of the crews was entirely female. The event will be registered in the Russian Book of Records for "the largest distance of the sea route covered on two BRDM-2 armored vehicles."

    https://sputniknews.com/videoclub/201707261055887002-amphibious-armored-personnel-carriers-russia/

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