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    Russian Sonar Systems

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Sonar Systems

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:52 am

    What do you think of this program by the US?
    Threat to Russian Sub Fleets or not?

    Great way to kill whales and other sea creatures, and a sign that current and previous systems are no longer good enough to get the job done any more... so smells of desperation to me.

    Well this is a one on one case or comparison.... Real life, the RuN wouldn't sail to the middle of the atlantic to Engage a USN fleet while the USN will probably try to secure the Russian Coasts.... RuN ships will always be within the range of Russian AFBs....

    So likely never to actually happen... so what is the point?


    I guess nowadays it comes to the case on who can detect who first and get to a firing position first.... What ISOS said is right but at the ranges Subs engage each other, i doubt you'd outrun an ADCAP or Fizik running at 50 knots (ADCAPs for sure since it was designed to counter Alfas)

    Which is why the Americans are afraid... the Soviets were always a little behind in detection performance and making their subs quiet so they made them fast a drawing their weapons... No ship could outrun an Exocet missile but that does not mean ships are vulnerable to them... plenty of ships in the Falklands survived Exocet attacks simply by using decoys and jamming... the ships that were in trouble were the civilian ships like the Atlantic Conveyer, which didn't have such things.

    What do you think of the F16.net arguments of "WVR combat is obselete nowadays and BVR scenarios enabled by systems like the AIM-120D which out performs the R-77-1 (early 2000 models i think is what spec they are using)"
    Sounds to me like they didn't think of the use of ECM in combat.

    I think they should look hard at the 40 percent kill probability of AMRAAM against fighter aircraft so poorly equipped most of the time they didn't know they were under attack, and ask what chance such weapons would have against well equipped +4 and 5th gen fighters.

    New fighters with 20kW output AESA radars that could focus a very powerful beam of energy into the small seeker fitted to an AAM and render it blind, or jam it and make it ineffective.

    A shame that the MiG 29s got compromised because of the fall of the soviet union.....

    It is actually not as bad as it seems... the west widely underestimates the MiG now and if they were to come up against a real Russian fully equipped MiG I am sure they will be surprised because even an SMT model is not the same as the MiG-29B export models they have seen before.

    You mean USS Scorpion?

    Yes.

    Well Some even theorized that the USS Scorpion was detected by a soviet sub in soviet waters and sunk in a stand off....

    Very unlikely... and less embarrassing than saying it might have shot itself by accident... even if that is the most likely cause.



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    Rowdyhorse4

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    Re: Russian Sonar Systems

    Post  Rowdyhorse4 on Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:40 percent kill probability

    AMRAAMS with 40 percent what? As far as i know the C-7 Versions have a 95% Probability of Hit value without ECM interference and Fighter Agility and Maneuvers taken into account?

    GarryB wrote:New fighters with 20kW output AESA radars

    Russians don't have an Aircraft that comes factory mass produced with AESA yet though? Even the Su-35s still comes with the IBRIS PESAs from the factory? (I know some have been Retrofitted with the Byelka on the field)

    GarryB wrote:as the MiG-29B export models they have seen before

    But the one they got their hands on was the MiG 29S (Project 9.13s) with some samples of R-77s? which was quite formidable at that time....
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Sonar Systems

    Post  Isos on Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:04 pm

    AMRAAMS with 40 percent what? As far as i know the C-7 Versions have a 95% Probability of Hit value without ECM interference and Fighter Agility and Maneuvers taken into account?

    No. US would tell just about their successfull shot not the one that missed. According to some Serbian member, serb pilots manage to evade 10 shoot of amramm easily with mig-29 that were just piece of metal without any electronics good enough to use it.

    Russians don't have an Aircraft that comes factory mass produced with AESA yet though? Even the Su-35s still comes with the IBRIS PESAs from the factory? (I know some have been Retrofitted with the Byelka on the field)

    They have ground based and sea based jamming equipement that can just jam all the X band that missiles use to guide themselves so that no one would found anything in the air. Moreover they have jaming pods that are very good at jaming missiles. Raw power is good but if you don't have the proccessing units with it it's not enough. Mig-25 radar by the way have 400 kilowatt output (compare to 20 KW of Irbis). If you use it as the antenna of a jaming system... That would burn anything at 100km.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Sonar Systems

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:28 pm

    AMRAAMS with 40 percent what? As far as i know the C-7 Versions have a 95% Probability of Hit value without ECM interference and Fighter Agility and Maneuvers taken into account?

    Not interested in marketing information or sales info... just actual combat results... which is about 40% or worse against targets not aware they were under attack most of the time and without the electronic equipment to defend themselves.

    Russians don't have an Aircraft that comes factory mass produced with AESA yet though? Even the Su-35s still comes with the IBRIS PESAs from the factory? (I know some have been Retrofitted with the Byelka on the field)

    BARS already manages 20kWs of power, and the MiG-35 and PAK FA will have AESA radars as standard... likely resulting in the Su-35 getting the same pretty quickly.

    But the one they got their hands on was the MiG 29S (Project 9.13s) with some samples of R-77s? which was quite formidable at that time....

    the ones they actually trained against were old model MiG-29Bs of the former East German Air Force.

    AFAIK they have not even trained against R-27E model missiles because the first model MiGs couldn't fire them.



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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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