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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

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    Austin

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:47 pm

    Good Details Guys

    Deputy general director of the company told Tass as was work on the project "Armata" and denied reports that the combat platform made ​​by western development


    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2515352
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:22 pm

    Austin wrote:Good Details Guys

    Deputy general director of the company told Tass as was work on the project "Armata" and denied reports that the combat platform made ​​by western development


    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2515352

    Interesting tid bit, apparently the 152mm gun they developed is completely different than the one on Object 195, vastly improved to the point that the 152mm gun fitted on the T-95 is considered obsolete in comparison.

    Alex555

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Alex555 on Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:05 pm

    "Equipment and armament" magazine (in Russian)
    Russian Arms Expo, Armata etc.

    Скачать - download button
    https://yadi.sk/i/Cyk3Pwpim2eL4
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:22 am

    "Uralvagonzavod": 10,000 Armatas in 2016



    EKATERINBURG, December 16. /TASS/. Research and production Corporation "Uralvagonzavod" (gift brand uvzshop.ru) and the largest producer of model kits and Board games in Russia in 2016 will release a batch of toy tanks T-14 "Armata", said TASS Deputy General Director of the defensive enterprise Alexey Zharich.
    "In the first game will be 10 thousand copies," he said, adding that all products in the series will be made of iron and plastic.
    lol!

    Alex555

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Alex555 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:01 pm

    "Equipment and armament" magazine (in Russian)
    Some info about T-15

    Скачать - download button
    https://yadi.sk/i/EOi_4w2BmWHMw
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    Werewolf

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:32 pm

    Alex555 wrote:"Equipment and armament" magazine (in Russian)
    Some info about T-15

    Скачать - download button
    https://yadi.sk/i/EOi_4w2BmWHMw

    Very nice thanks.

    More stuff for other vehicles like Armata T-14?

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Cyrus the great on Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:34 pm


    Will the Armata have fiber-optic computer cables? How much weight would an additional 4th person to the crew [to perform ISR duties]] add to the tank? After all, an extra set of hands would help with the maintenance.

    fragmachine

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  fragmachine on Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:55 pm

    Cyrus the great wrote:
    Will the Armata have fiber-optic computer cables? How much weight would an additional 4th person to the crew [to perform ISR duties]] add to the tank? After all, an extra set of hands would help with the maintenance.

    Cmon, we are back on this square again? UVZ plans to make completely robotic T-14 tanks in the future, how does that fit the bill with crewless tanks?

    You don't need fourth pair of hands in tank for that. You need reliable design, well trained crew and robust strategies applied to succed. If some tank will be damaged due to combat all you need is T-16 + technicians.

    Alex555

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Alex555 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:30 pm

    Werewolf wrote:More stuff for other vehicles like Armata T-14?
    No Sorry.
    These links from paralay Embarassed

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Cyrus the great on Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:39 pm

    fragmachine wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:
    Will the Armata have fiber-optic computer cables? How much weight would an additional 4th person to the crew [to perform ISR duties]] add to the tank? After all, an extra set of hands would help with the maintenance.

    Cmon, we are back on this square again? UVZ plans to make completely robotic T-14 tanks in the future, how does that fit the bill with crewless tanks?

    You don't need fourth pair of hands in tank for that. You need reliable design, well trained crew and robust strategies applied to succed. If some tank will be damaged due to combat all you need is T-16 + technicians.

    'The future' is not very specific, is it? I doubt that any army would completely robotize its entire tank fleet. Some of them could certainly be robotized for certain operations when required.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:47 pm

    From own experience and from fellow members i can say most soldiers love the idea or at least the mouthfull sound of the "advanced" sounding Fibre-glass optical wire but from practical use everyone only bitches about it. I was instructed how to use the PARM DM-12 which is nothing else but a TOW like warhead with probe that is fired upon tanks via destruction/damaging of fibre glass optical wire that is layed upon the designated area. During the instructions we were often and repeatedly adviced to be highly careful since they are so sensitive and brittle and could set off the mine when not handled properly if someone pulled the safety pin before hand and did not make sure to follow protocol what to do first.



    OVerall i only heared as the majority of complains about fibre glass optical wire rather than admiration or necessity for it.

    In vehicles they are subject to heat, vibration and touching during maintenance and that will be a concern for maintenance and performance on battlefield. I from personal understanding and limit experience would not want to see fibre glass wire in use of such vehicles that would be purpose on rough intended battlefields.

    The other subject of an additional crew member on a tank for maintenance and "shift duties" like many love to argue with is of relative high degree either  subject to criticism or right out not educated enough to know disadvantegous to even suggest the flimsy and limited advanteges.

    Maybe i will elaborate on that tomorrow, had quite a few glasses already.


    The future' is not very specific, is it? I doubt that any army would completely robotize its entire tank fleet. Some of them could certainly be robotized for certain operations when required.

    Without doubt robots will not be and never in our lifetimes to replace umans or human reaction, intitiative, reaction or creativity and to be innovative in specific situations, however i expect robots sooner or later to be an advanced dummy purposed military infrastructure to be at some point nothing else but firm, low cost but mobile dummies that fool enemy via offensive and defensive use to attract fire and thereby protect other possible targets from weaponary. So they will end up in frontline the one, the other or both (both i expect) ways.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:33 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:"Uralvagonzavod": 10,000 Armatas in 2016



    EKATERINBURG, December 16. /TASS/. Research and production Corporation "Uralvagonzavod" (gift brand uvzshop.ru) and the largest producer of model kits and Board games in Russia in 2016 will release a batch of toy tanks T-14 "Armata", said TASS Deputy General Director of the defensive enterprise Alexey Zharich.
    "In the first game will be 10 thousand copies," he said, adding that all products in the series will be made of iron and plastic.
    lol!

    That's probably as close as they'll get to 2000 Armatas by 2020, to be fair.
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    Mike E

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Mike E on Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:37 am

    Well, they did say by 2025...
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    kvs

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  kvs on Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:51 am

    Mike E wrote:Well, they did say by 2025...

    10 years at 200 each year sounds perfectly doable to me. We aren't talking about Ukraine here.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:54 am

    It is very doable, they could theoratically run up to 300 Armatas per year without much problems. Armata isn't the T-14/ or T-15 the armata is only the modular based hull and it is very simple to produce when compared to the time and effort they would need to spend on an enitre plattform already configurated to combat ready status. Armata is only the hull and it is already ready for russian army for tests, the turrets is what is not ready not for T-14 nor for T-15.

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Cyrus the great on Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:15 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    From own experience and from fellow members i can say most soldiers love the idea or at least the mouthfull sound of the "advanced" sounding Fibre-glass optical wire but from practical use everyone only bitches about it. I was instructed how to use the PARM DM-12 which is nothing else but a TOW like warhead with probe that is fired upon tanks via destruction/damaging of fibre glass optical wire that is layed upon the designated area. During the instructions we were often and repeatedly adviced to be highly careful since they are so sensitive and brittle and could set off the mine when not handled properly if someone pulled the safety pin before hand and did not make sure to follow protocol what to do first.


    OVerall i only heared as the majority of complains about fibre glass optical wire rather than admiration or necessity for it.

    In vehicles they are subject to heat, vibration and touching during maintenance and that will be a concern for maintenance and performance on battlefield. I from personal understanding and limit experience would not want to see fibre glass wire in use of such vehicles that would be purpose on rough intended battlefields.

    The other subject of an additional crew member on a tank for maintenance and "shift duties" like many love to argue with is of relative high degree either  subject to criticism or right out not educated enough to know disadvantegous to even suggest the flimsy and limited advanteges.

    Maybe i will elaborate on that tomorrow, had quite a few glasses already.


    The fact that fiber-optic cables are so fragile made me question why the Americans thought of incorporating them into the M1A3, but then I thought maybe military engineers found a way to protect the fiber-optic cables to an extent that was at least respectable, but you made me realise that it isn't such a good idea in a military vehicle - facing the rigor of combat condition. Someone once told me that when Internet fiber-optic cables break at one point, the whole cable is destroyed.

    I can see why the Americans would take these measures to reduce the weight of the Abrams. The Russians don't need to reduce the weight of the tank. I've never served in the Australian Defence Force so I don't know how many men are required for maintenance duties or what exactly these duties entail. Autonomous drones can perform ISR so I guess a 4th crew member isn't required for that. The fact that Russian tanks don't have a 4th crew member is always cited as a weakness when it comes to maintenance. I don't know how true this is.

    Werewolf wrote:

    Without doubt robots will not be and never in our lifetimes to replace umans or human reaction, intitiative, reaction or creativity and to be innovative in specific situations, however i expect robots sooner or later to be an advanced dummy purposed military infrastructure to be at some point nothing else but firm, low cost but mobile dummies that fool enemy via offensive and defensive use to attract fire and thereby protect other possible targets from weaponary. So they will end up in frontline the one, the other or both (both i expect) ways.

    I agree. I just don't see AI being able to supplant the importance of human-beings in the battlefield. Robots and drones will complement soldiers but humans will always have to be in the loop. Question: How many 152mm rounds did the Russians plan to have in the now dead T-95?

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