Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Railguns as Tank turrets

    Share
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5361
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:11 am

    Here about EM guns from BitnikGr, its pretty easy to assume that EM guns wont be fitted on Tanks in the first generation of EM guns.



    But on the other hand russians already have an 30kg explosiv-magnetic generator that generates enough energy for a plasma EM that accelerates the projectile about 5km/s.
    This device explodes immidiatley after use.
    Also mentioned that this could be used for "ATGM" tube like AT weapons, but the explosion is high enough that it could kill a person so that will be launched from distance via wire.

    I have also seen documentary about russian Laser tanks where they also used explosives inside of a tube, during the explosion the light is intense and collected through the lense the light is strong enough to melt metal. There was no possibility to generate enough energy on a tank with usual generators to create a high intense laser to melt armour
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    EM railguns in Tanks

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:54 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    But on the other hand russians already have an 30kg explosiv-magnetic generator that generates enough energy for a plasma EM that accelerates the projectile about 5km/s.
    This device explodes immidiatley after use.
    Also mentioned that this could be used for "ATGM" tube like AT weapons, but the explosion is high enough that it could kill a person so that will be launched from distance via wire.
    Hmm, AFAIK, that explosive-magnetic generator(also known as flux compression generator) concept is not that new, there have been examples of it near the current form dating back to the 70's. They are used to generate large amounts of current in a snap, which is good for railguns and similar applications where huge amounts of current are needed at a moments' notice. Anyways, they could also be used to generate EMP's so they must be properly shielded from the outside to be usable. However I do not see them powering railguns in tanks in their current form, they are very dangerous and bulky.
    Werewolf wrote:
    I have also seen documentary about russian Laser tanks where they also used explosives inside of a tube, during the explosion the light is intense and collected through the lense the light is strong enough to melt metal. There was no possibility to generate enough energy on a tank with usual generators to create a high intense laser to melt armour
    Hmm, those are probably chemical cartridges similar to the canceled airborne laser. However, it would take a huge amount of energy just to melt through the surface of the armor of a tank, much higher when you consider the efficiencies of current and near-future laser tech. Besides that you need a relatively static target in order for the laser to have as much dwell time and the proper angle to burn through much of the armor or more likely just enough to raise the temperature of the interior to rotisserie levels. Then there's blooming where the laser diffuses across distances and that pesky ablation problem that generates enough particulate from the surface of the armor to block effectively block further laser beams. Add to that host of problems, the fact that you can pretty much just shine the surface of your tank so it deflects laser beams for a large part of the time it is firing at you.
    avatar
    higurashihougi

    Posts : 2152
    Points : 2255
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:26 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    In order to push a bullet out of the gun we need an enormous amount of power. Even the 7.62x39 M43/67 has already consumed a great deal of energy.

    Which means the current generation of batteries and power generators may not be able to sustain an EM gun... at least in large scale to be a competitor with explosive gun.
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5361
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:04 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    In order to push a bullet out of the gun we need an enormous amount of power. Even the 7.62x39 M43/67 has already consumed a great deal of energy.

    Which means the current generation of batteries and power generators may not be able to sustain an EM gun... at least in large scale to be a competitor with explosive gun.

    Russia has developed an Explosive Electromagnetic Generator and it has this since few years which can generate enough power to fire a projectile up to 5km/s.

    At 03:52
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16293
    Points : 16924
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:12 am

    Those two sensor boxes (one for the commander and one for the gunner) remind me of the sensor boxes for the Palma systems so I suspect this is the turret from the company that makes the ATAKA and Kristantema missiles... so there is no surprise it is not fitted with KBPs Kornets.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Stealthflanker

    Posts : 798
    Points : 882
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 29
    Location : Indonesia

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:51 am

    Werewolf wrote:

    Russia has developed an Explosive Electromagnetic Generator and it has this since few years which can generate enough power to fire a projectile up to 5km/s.

    At 03:52

    So far it's remain within a Lab as testbed platform. Would be nice to see practical applications but i feel it's kinda unlikely for today. and given the nature of Explosively pumped flux generator used as power source.. It need some extraordinary confinement to contain the explosion. and the shell won't likely to be "12.5 mm" small.


    As for the reports though.. I kinda feel that 12.5mm anti missile gun to be weird.. Perhaps that's a mistake. Shells, ATGM is a very small target.. very difficult to hit with regular kinetic munitions. Thus why APS relies in fragmentation or explosive.
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5361
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:54 am

    That kind of technology will take a couple of decades to become even battlefield valuable and a big problem with the entire concept is, they are limited of use like KE rounds, not much of use against anything else but high valued armored targets.
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4495
    Points : 4674
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:31 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    In order to push a bullet out of the gun we need an enormous amount of power. Even the 7.62x39 M43/67 has already consumed a great deal of energy.

    Which means the current generation of batteries and power generators may not be able to sustain an EM gun... at least in large scale to be a competitor with explosive gun.

    Russia has developed an Explosive Electromagnetic Generator and it has this since few years which can generate enough power to fire a projectile up to 5km/s.

    At 03:52

    With the projectiles that they fired, they were able get reliable speeds as high as 15km/sec.
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:54 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    With the projectiles that they fired, they were able get reliable speeds as high as 15km/sec.
    speed is too high- optimum ive read for penetrating armor with sabot rounds is 2.5km/s. beyond that and you are only making the hole wider and shallower. maybe if the penetrator could be made intact as it goes through the armor such speeds would then be desirable, but until then just increasing the dimensions and improving the material characteristics when the 2.5km/s limit is reached would be enough.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16293
    Points : 16924
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:55 am

    I have read that the most efficient penetrator speed is about 2.5km/s too and that rather than increase velocity it is more energy efficient to increase the penetrator weight.

    Ironically it is actually harder to get higher speed than to increase the penetrator weight ... just make the penetrator longer will increase weight...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5361
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:25 pm

    GarryB wrote:I have read that the most efficient penetrator speed is about 2.5km/s too and that rather than increase velocity it is more energy efficient to increase the penetrator weight.

    Ironically it is actually harder to get higher speed than to increase the penetrator weight ... just make the penetrator longer will increase weight...

    Well form of penetrator plays a big role and if i remeber right there were some forms of the tip that were not as spiky as we usually see on current APFSDS rounds, which would push away the air in a very effecient way so the body after the Tip did not come to much in contact with the air, like a windshadow like driving on highway behind a big truck, which increased the possible velocity and sustained penetrative capability on larger distances then just 2km like the current APFSDS rounds.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Railguns as Tank turrets

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:29 pm