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    Electro-Magnetic Guns

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:11 am

    Here about EM guns from BitnikGr, its pretty easy to assume that EM guns wont be fitted on Tanks in the first generation of EM guns.



    But on the other hand russians already have an 30kg explosiv-magnetic generator that generates enough energy for a plasma EM that accelerates the projectile about 5km/s.
    This device explodes immidiatley after use.
    Also mentioned that this could be used for "ATGM" tube like AT weapons, but the explosion is high enough that it could kill a person so that will be launched from distance via wire.

    I have also seen documentary about russian Laser tanks where they also used explosives inside of a tube, during the explosion the light is intense and collected through the lense the light is strong enough to melt metal. There was no possibility to generate enough energy on a tank with usual generators to create a high intense laser to melt armour
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    collegeboy16

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    EM railguns in Tanks

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:54 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    But on the other hand russians already have an 30kg explosiv-magnetic generator that generates enough energy for a plasma EM that accelerates the projectile about 5km/s.
    This device explodes immidiatley after use.
    Also mentioned that this could be used for "ATGM" tube like AT weapons, but the explosion is high enough that it could kill a person so that will be launched from distance via wire.
    Hmm, AFAIK, that explosive-magnetic generator(also known as flux compression generator) concept is not that new, there have been examples of it near the current form dating back to the 70's. They are used to generate large amounts of current in a snap, which is good for railguns and similar applications where huge amounts of current are needed at a moments' notice. Anyways, they could also be used to generate EMP's so they must be properly shielded from the outside to be usable. However I do not see them powering railguns in tanks in their current form, they are very dangerous and bulky.
    Werewolf wrote:
    I have also seen documentary about russian Laser tanks where they also used explosives inside of a tube, during the explosion the light is intense and collected through the lense the light is strong enough to melt metal. There was no possibility to generate enough energy on a tank with usual generators to create a high intense laser to melt armour
    Hmm, those are probably chemical cartridges similar to the canceled airborne laser. However, it would take a huge amount of energy just to melt through the surface of the armor of a tank, much higher when you consider the efficiencies of current and near-future laser tech. Besides that you need a relatively static target in order for the laser to have as much dwell time and the proper angle to burn through much of the armor or more likely just enough to raise the temperature of the interior to rotisserie levels. Then there's blooming where the laser diffuses across distances and that pesky ablation problem that generates enough particulate from the surface of the armor to block effectively block further laser beams. Add to that host of problems, the fact that you can pretty much just shine the surface of your tank so it deflects laser beams for a large part of the time it is firing at you.
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    higurashihougi

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:26 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    In order to push a bullet out of the gun we need an enormous amount of power. Even the 7.62x39 M43/67 has already consumed a great deal of energy.

    Which means the current generation of batteries and power generators may not be able to sustain an EM gun... at least in large scale to be a competitor with explosive gun.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:04 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    In order to push a bullet out of the gun we need an enormous amount of power. Even the 7.62x39 M43/67 has already consumed a great deal of energy.

    Which means the current generation of batteries and power generators may not be able to sustain an EM gun... at least in large scale to be a competitor with explosive gun.

    Russia has developed an Explosive Electromagnetic Generator and it has this since few years which can generate enough power to fire a projectile up to 5km/s.

    At 03:52
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    GarryB

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:12 am

    Those two sensor boxes (one for the commander and one for the gunner) remind me of the sensor boxes for the Palma systems so I suspect this is the turret from the company that makes the ATAKA and Kristantema missiles... so there is no surprise it is not fitted with KBPs Kornets.
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:51 am

    Werewolf wrote:

    Russia has developed an Explosive Electromagnetic Generator and it has this since few years which can generate enough power to fire a projectile up to 5km/s.

    At 03:52

    So far it's remain within a Lab as testbed platform. Would be nice to see practical applications but i feel it's kinda unlikely for today. and given the nature of Explosively pumped flux generator used as power source.. It need some extraordinary confinement to contain the explosion. and the shell won't likely to be "12.5 mm" small.


    As for the reports though.. I kinda feel that 12.5mm anti missile gun to be weird.. Perhaps that's a mistake. Shells, ATGM is a very small target.. very difficult to hit with regular kinetic munitions. Thus why APS relies in fragmentation or explosive.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:54 am

    That kind of technology will take a couple of decades to become even battlefield valuable and a big problem with the entire concept is, they are limited of use like KE rounds, not much of use against anything else but high valued armored targets.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:31 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    In order to push a bullet out of the gun we need an enormous amount of power. Even the 7.62x39 M43/67 has already consumed a great deal of energy.

    Which means the current generation of batteries and power generators may not be able to sustain an EM gun... at least in large scale to be a competitor with explosive gun.

    Russia has developed an Explosive Electromagnetic Generator and it has this since few years which can generate enough power to fire a projectile up to 5km/s.

    At 03:52

    With the projectiles that they fired, they were able get reliable speeds as high as 15km/sec.
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    collegeboy16

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:54 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    With the projectiles that they fired, they were able get reliable speeds as high as 15km/sec.
    speed is too high- optimum ive read for penetrating armor with sabot rounds is 2.5km/s. beyond that and you are only making the hole wider and shallower. maybe if the penetrator could be made intact as it goes through the armor such speeds would then be desirable, but until then just increasing the dimensions and improving the material characteristics when the 2.5km/s limit is reached would be enough.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:55 am

    I have read that the most efficient penetrator speed is about 2.5km/s too and that rather than increase velocity it is more energy efficient to increase the penetrator weight.

    Ironically it is actually harder to get higher speed than to increase the penetrator weight ... just make the penetrator longer will increase weight...
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    Werewolf

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    a electro-magnetic main gun powered by magneto batteries

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:25 pm

    GarryB wrote:I have read that the most efficient penetrator speed is about 2.5km/s too and that rather than increase velocity it is more energy efficient to increase the penetrator weight.

    Ironically it is actually harder to get higher speed than to increase the penetrator weight ... just make the penetrator longer will increase weight...

    Well form of penetrator plays a big role and if i remeber right there were some forms of the tip that were not as spiky as we usually see on current APFSDS rounds, which would push away the air in a very effecient way so the body after the Tip did not come to much in contact with the air, like a windshadow like driving on highway behind a big truck, which increased the possible velocity and sustained penetrative capability on larger distances then just 2km like the current APFSDS rounds.

    moskit

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    Developments taking place in the field of Electromagnetic rail guns in Russia

    Post  moskit on Mon May 30, 2016 5:14 pm

    Long live Russia,

    Dear admins,

    There are lot of fuss about the electromagnetic rail gun that the US developed and tested recently in media. It says sing its truly a game changing weapon and few analogues are there to challenge it> I would like to know how the Russians have done with that technology and what are there achievements in this field. Thank u,


    Last edited by moskit on Tue May 31, 2016 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 31, 2016 8:58 am

    There are several limitations of rail guns... a major one being they need fairly significant power supplies to operate, which limits the sort of platforms that can operate them in the foreseable future to being large warships.

    Having said that the Russians are working on their own designs.
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    jhelb

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  jhelb on Tue May 31, 2016 4:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:There are several limitations of rail guns... a major one being they need fairly significant power supplies to operate, which limits the sort of platforms that can operate them in the foreseable future to being large warships.

    GarryB wrote:Having said that the Russians are working on their own designs.

    Garry can you provide some more insight on this? What new design are you referring to? I suspect such ships will need to be nuclear powered.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue May 31, 2016 6:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:There are several limitations of rail guns... a major one being they need fairly significant power supplies to operate, which limits the sort of platforms that can operate them in the foreseable future to being large warships.

    Having said that the Russians are working on their own designs.

    They had rail-less electro-magnetic guns, powered by electro-magneto batteries for about 2 decades now....with that being said the Russian MOD is rather conservative, and would (most of the time) conserve spending (the general trend of the last two decades) and prevent escalation of tensions. It's a card they rather not play until they absolutely had to...which explains why they stuck with the 125 mm caliber over the 152 mm caliber smoothbore MBT gun.
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    max steel

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  max steel on Tue May 31, 2016 9:06 pm

    USS Zumwalt 78 MW powered ship is planning to use Railguns. As for the weapon being "new", they were first made in 1918 - the trick is to keep the barrel from wearing down too quickly with the very fast projectiles - which are also part of the electrical circuit, so it's a materials-science/tolerance problem, not a design problem.

    If the barrel wears down after 10 shots and it won't fire anymore, it's not really a "superweapon". Wink

    Why Navy can't have nice railguns




    America’s New Superweapon Fails to take Russia and China by Surprise
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    GarryB

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:12 pm

    Garry can you provide some more insight on this? What new design are you referring to? I suspect such ships will need to be nuclear powered.

    AFAIK still secret...

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160530/1040475728/railgun-russia-us.html
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:53 am

    Russian scientists first tested the electromagnetic railgun-gun


    MOSCOW, July 12 - RIA Novosti. In Shatura Branch Joint Institute for High Temperatures tested so-called railgun - electromagnetic accelerator that can accelerate matter to the first cosmic speed and output payloads into orbit, "Russian Science" reports.

    "Getting high speeds with great difficulty Our task -. Receiving system with high pressures and to explore with them the Universe The second problem -. Protection against high-speed cosmic bodies that pose a threat to us, including space debris, comets, etc. The next task. - withdrawal of satellites in Earth orbit, "- he told reporters the president of Russian Academy of Sciences Vladimir fort.

    Railgun are special devices that can disperse objects to extremely high speeds by electric and magnetic fields of force. Typically, a set of several parallel conductors, known as rails, through which current is passed ultrahigh strength. If these concerns conductor rail, the Lorentz force will push and disperse it to the ultrahigh speeds reach gunpowder weapons.

    Such devices are now considered the basis for the creation of new weapons systems and output of goods into orbit. For example, the US Navy is seriously working on the creation of guns based on railgun from mid-2000, when the first prototypes of such systems have been demonstrated to be installed on a new generation of destroyers. The development of space and military railgun engaged and Russian scientists.

    According to the Russian Academy of Sciences, Russian scientists were able to reach a speed of 11 kilometers per second during acceleration "bullets" in railgun created them. This speed is enough to overcome the pull of the Earth and reach its orbit, and a little is not enough to enter into an open space

    As the Forts, achieving such speeds require such high currents and energies that all components of the railgun quickly wear out and fail. Now the main task - to find a material that could withstand such loads, and how to protect them from wear and tear. The head of the RAS has promised that soon the institute specialists will prepare and lay out a video in which you will see the "shot" railgun.

    In the speed of 3.2 kilometers has been achieved during demostratsionnogo startup accelerator in the second, that the fort considered a good indicator. According to him, railgun, temporarily released from the system after the first "shot", repaired tonight.

    According to the academician, the development and further study of how these electromagnetic accelerators work will not only derive loads into space and destroy dangerous objects in their approach to the world, but also to reveal the deeper secrets of the universe - that the behavior of the plasma in the space, both born and dying stars. In addition, the study of the behavior of the plasma inside the railgun will help physicists to tame fusion energy, with what scientists today are experiencing great difficulties in the framework of ITER and NIF projects.

    Railgun 3,2km/s? like 10Ma...not bad but whooping 11,2 as objective is real deal.  33Ma.
    With 24Ma suborbital flight US in 30min not to mention satellites. So scaling down nuclear reactors and investing in high temp superconductors pays off Smile




    max steel wrote:RUSSIA DISMANTLES THE MYTH OF THE AMERICAN NAVY’S INVINCIBILITY

    heh nice but I do not believe hypersonic weapons will fly without nukes. 200-.750kt as in Soviet times should be enough take off A/C group form action 2-3 probably down all ships beyond repairs.

    When Us fleet goes ot Russia´s shores there is the Doomsday no time for conventional weapons.
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    nemrod

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    Russia's Next Military Game Changer: Microwave Weapons?

    Post  nemrod on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:32 pm


    This weapon is far to be new, during the Soviet Union's era, engineers worked out this kind of weapons. I read that during the 60's first soviet microwave weapons were designed, but at that time too much cumbersome to be embedded into useful weapon. Nowadays this weapon seems to be enough mature. This is the definitely the end of US strategy that in fact never worked. The BVR was never than a myth, it is a myth, and will stay a myth for at least the rest of this century. Microwave weapons will disable all WVR's missiles too, including those are infra-red. It is the end of an era that started during the 60's with pitiable performances of US -as long as soviet- air to air missiles. The Gulf war of 1991 was not brighting too for air to air missiles. Now it is The End. We are back to the real world, world of dogfights, where US are far behind of the others.

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russias-next-military-game-changer-microwave-weapons-16946
    http://tass.ru/opinions/interviews/3440871



    Russia's Next Military Game Changer: Microwave Weapons?

    New drones and fighters could fry enemy hardware from a distance.
    Michael Peck
    July 12, 2016

    Russia will arm its sixth-generation combat drones with microwave weapons.

    These weapons, which disable an aircraft’s electronic equipment, already exist today “and can hit targets within a radius of tens of kilometers,” said Vladimir Mikheev, a director of state-owned Russian electronics firm KRET, in an interview with TASS.


    However, Mikheev suggested that microwave weapons can be as dangerous to the user as to the target. While Russia is developing manned and unmanned sixth-generation aircraft, which are predicted to first take flight in 2025, only the unmanned version will be armed with a microwave weapon. “The electromagnetic pulse fired by the microwave weapon is so powerful that it is extremely difficult to protect the pilot from his own weapons,” Mikheev said. “No matter how well we may shield the cabin, this electronic pulse will get through. And as a human is also, to some extent, a ‘device’ operating on the basis of receiving and transmitting electromagnetic signals, such weapons can cause heavy damage to the health of the pilot.”

    “Protection is already in place today: shielding, special goggles and a glass canopy covered with gold plating to reduce radiation. However, it is so far impossible to ensure 100 percent protection.”

    Echoing the same debates in the United States over manned versus unmanned combat aircraft, Mikheev said that only the unmanned version of Russia's sixth-generation aircraft will have “full technical capabilities.” He predicted these drones will be hypersonic, with a speed of Mach 4 to 5, and will be capable of flight through near space (sixty-five thousand to 328,000 feet).

    Mikheev also notes that that fifth-generation aircraft, such as the F-22, F-35 and Russia’s PAK FA, are characterized by supersonic cruising speed and stealth designs. But what will distinguish sixth-generation aircraft from their predecessors is the capability to work with drones. Mikheev offered a vision of Russian drone warfare that sounds much like its American counterpart. Like the United States, Russia is embracing manned-unmanned teaming, where piloted aircraft control packs of drones.

    Also like American defense contractors, Russian companies say price shouldn’t be a barrier to capability. While drones are cheaper than manned aircraft, they will never be cheap. “They will come at a serious price, given that it will be a high-tech weapon—an aircraft combining hypersonic flight speed, low visibility, high security, artificial intelligence (in order to work in a group) and the most modern weapons, including electromagnetic. The sixth-generation arsenal will also include the latest weapon control systems, reconnaissance, electronic warfare, guidance, navigation and Identification Friend or Foe.”

    The U.S. military is also grappling with what a sixth-generation combat aircraft will look like. Long range, stealth and supersonic cruising capabilities are likely to be features, as will be non-kinetic armament such as microwave or other electromagnetic weapons. It is a certainty that the next generation of manned aircraft will only be a component of a larger team, with the pilot the would-be master of a swarm of drones increasingly capable of autonomous flight.

    The ultimate question: Will a sixth-generation aircraft even have a pilot?

    Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on Twitter and Facebook.


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    Flanky

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  Flanky on Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:48 pm

    Here is the test...


    But who said that they tested it only now?
    And what about this?
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    kvs

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:56 am

    I have seen this very same bench model for the last 15 years being trotted out sporadically. It is something straight from the 1970s.

    Either they have no video of the real test model or they are trying to embarrass themselves.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Railgun construction

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:56 am

    kvs wrote: Either they have no video of the real test model or they are trying to embarrass themselves.

    Option 1 I presume, journos are armed with google an yt noit real footage from secret labs Smile
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    George1

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    Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:59 am

    Russian Defense Ministry develops electromagnetic gun to counter drones

    The gun can be charged from the grid, as well as from a car battery



    KUBINKA /Moscow region/, August 22. /TASS/. The Russian Defense Ministry’s Main Robotics Research and Test Center has developed an electromagnetic gun to counter unmanned aerial vehicles, named Stupor, a TASS correspondent reported, adding that a model of the gun was presented at the Army-2017 International Military-Technical Forum being held in the Moscow region.

    A press release says that the Stupor gun is designed to counter unmanned aerial vehicles, including copters, under direct visibility.

    According to a center spokesman, the gun emits separate electromagnetic pulses to suppress channels used to operate a drone. As a result, the drone loses contact with its operator, while its uncontrolled flight ends in a crash. The spokesman added that the Stupor gun had a range of two kilometers, covering a 20 degree sector.

    Support documentation explains that the device is capable of suppressing navigation and transmission channels used by unmanned aerial vehicles, as well as their photo and video cameras within the electro-optical range of frequencies.

    The gun can be charged from the grid, as well as from a car battery.

    A warning on the device says that it should not be pointed towards people, manned aircraft, transport vehicles and animals.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/961402
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    On the eve of the inauguration of Vladimir Putin in Russia successfully tested railgun

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:34 am

    Very interesting article - there is some "recycled info" IMHO  but , no BUT there is couple of extra sentences made me post it here.
    updated stuff  in bold.


    3km/s as stated is recycled - this was form like 4-5years ago. But more powerful 6 times? tkhm (2,5)2 = 6,25 right? so speed might b 3kmsx2,5 = 7,5km/s?!!!! shit!!! OR I am wrong? almost first cosmic velocity...



    On the eve of the inauguration of Vladimir Putin in Russia successfully tested railgun

    On May 6, the Shatura branch of the Joint Institute for High Temperatures of the Russian Academy of Sciences passed another successful test of the device, which in the information environment is called a railgun.

    The head of the OIVT RAS, academician Vladimir Fortov, an outstanding Soviet and Russian physicist, has already several times publicly spoken about the railgun - electromagnetic artillery of the 21st century.

    During the period of theoretical research and development work, the staff of the Shatura branch of the JIWT created such a capacitive storage device that can already "fire" an object weighing 100 grams at a speed of 3 km per second. Employees of Vladimir Fortov for two years increased the energy of armament of their installations by 6 times. Natural experiments with a railgun have begun, which are powered by a pulsed induction storage. Such a solution significantly increases the temperature of the "plasma piston" and, accordingly, the velocity of the projectile.

    On the night after the election of the President of the Russian Federation - from 18 to 19 March - Academician Fortov, on the air of the First Channel, was asked: will the railgun be able to shell objects at a distance of 300-400 kilometers from the ground, that is, to shoot down not only enemy satellites, but, for example , asteroids? From the answer it was possible to judge that such a development of events with the railgun is not ruled out. But the main thing for today is to arm the Russian army with electromagnetic cannons. This direction is rapidly developing. Employees OIVT RAS, have found a way to increase the power of a plasma railgun six times.

    The system developed by V. Fortov, who has for his work and discoveries in the field of plasma all the most prestigious world prizes in physics. In addition to the Nobel Prize. But Fortov is a military physicist, and, as you know, the Nobel Prize is not awarded for military development.

    For your information: with the help of an electromagnetic field, the academician Fortov's railgun accelerates charges to almost cosmic speeds. Even a small shell is endowed with great permissive power. For example: a relatively small object without any explosive stuffing can be dispersed on the railgun to such a speed that it can crush the MSU building on Vorobyovy Gory.
    Now we are ten years ahead of the Americans, who dream of equipping their warships with railguns.

    Today the railgun with a "plasma jumper" is being tested in the US Army as a catapult for launching kinetic projectiles from aircraft carriers. But the electromagnetic guns created by our military physicists already have a unique power and can disable military space objects if they threaten the security of the Russian Federation.
    Railgun is the weapon of the future. And if the experimental and engineering work of our physicists this year will be successful, the railroad track of Academician Fortov, like the missiles of Yuri Solomonov, will almost completely cover the needs of the military-industrial complex in creating weapons that will completely protect our country from all possible air strikes or strikes from outer space.

    http://argumenti.ru/society/2018/05/571801


    Academic Fortov
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    GarryB

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    Re: Electro-Magnetic Guns

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 15, 2018 9:31 am

    The main problems are the size of the objects being launched... 100 grammes, is certainly not nothing, but in terms of a payload for shooting down satellites it is plenty, but for pretty much anything else it is not so useful.

    I rather suspect other issues like rate of fire and cost per round probably make it interesting but not really there yet.

    In terms of speed then very high speed with lower mass would be useful for disabling satellites or just shooting down things in the air... but when it comes to penetrating armour I seem to remember a German scientist working on armour penetration saying that normally increasing velocity is a great way and an easy way to increase penetration but when you start getting to velocities like 3km per second or more it starts to make more sense to increase mass rather than velocity.

    Above about 3km/s the penetrator pretty much vapourises, so increased speed does not increase further penetration... increased mass allows better penetration then.

    In that situation I suspect most development would revolve around shooting down aircraft and satellites.

    The problem is that with improvements in scramjet technology pretty soon missiles will be able to fly at enormous speed too... up to and beyond orbital speed (7km/s+) or even escape velocity (11km/s).

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