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    Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:58 am

    eehnie wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    Benya wrote:A brief analisys of the 4x4 "Typhoon-K", made by Armyrecognition (technical specs included)


    Russia has developed new 4x4 armoured vehicle K4386 Typhoon VDV for Russian airborne troops.

    Russian defense industry has developed the new 4x4 armoured vehicle K4386 "Typhoon-VDV" especially designed for airborne troops. According some Russian military sources, the design of the vehicle is made by the Company OJSC a subdivision of the Russian Company Kamaz.


    New K4386 Typhoon-VDV 4x4 armoured vehicle personnel carrier (Source and Copyright photo BMPD Live Journal)

    The new K4386 "Typhoon-VDV" was developed under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense to provide a new 4x4 armoured vehicle for Russian airborne troops. according Russian military sources, the first prototype of the vehicle is based on the K53949 which was unveiled some few years ago.

    October 4, 2016, the Russian Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) has released a video showing a first prototype of the K4386 "Typhoon-VDV". The Russian airborne troops expected to complete the first field trial tests at the end of 2018.

    According to the manufacturer, the K4386 was developed in less than 6 months and could be tested before the end of the year. The vehicle has a weight of 11 tons and can carried from six to eight military personnel.

    On the video released by the CAST, the K4386 seems to be fitted with a remotely operated weapon station armed with a 30mm cannon. A 7.62mm coaxial machine gun is mounted to the left side of the main armament. Three smoke grenade discharger are integrated in the armour of the turret on each side at the front of the turret.

    The K4386 offers a protection for the crew Level 3 STANAG 4569, against firing of small arms 7.62x51mm and mine explosion blast of 8kg under the wheels.

    The K4386 is motorized with a 350 horsepower Diesel engine coupled to an automatic transmission. It can run at a maximum road speed of 105 km/h with a maximum cruising range of 1,200 km.


    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_has_developed_new_4x4_armoured_vehicle_k4386_typhoon_vdv_for_russian_airborne_troops_11210162.html


    What I can tell about this is that the 30mm autocannon module on the Typhoon is more modern than the one on the Tigr.

    I think the Airborne Troops (and also the Naval Infantry) would find the best option in the Typhoon-K/Typhoon-U 6x6 (Kamaz 63968 and Ural 63095) that are being ordered today by the Russian Armed Forces. It is very difficult to see a 4x4 vehicle improving the performance of the 6x6 on protection of the crew.

    Surely the right basis for the Airborne Troops (and the Naval Infantry) would be formed by BMD-4M, BTR-MD, Typhoon-K 6x6 and Typhoon-U 6x6. All them available today. This is likely to become the standard mix of light platform vehicles, (like the Kurganets and Boomerangs will form the mix of medium platform vehicles).

    In overall terms the procurement of MT-LB and BTR-80(/82) (plus the SA-13 and 2S23) should stop fast in the cases still remain.

    Not if you need reduced dimension vehicles to airdrop. And that's the whole point.

    The vehicles of the BMD-4M platfom cover the needs of air-droppable vehicles.

    Sure...have you even compared the two vehicles? Just FS&G. When I read stuff like this I'm still wondering why are you still here?

    These are 4.5/7 ton class vehicles with modest protection, OTT firepower and a lot of flexibility. For one BMD-4A-M you can load at least 2 K-VDV weight wise. Dimensions same stuff, 5.3m for K-VDV and ~7m for BMD-4M. The main issue will be the loss in firepower, but all the rest is virtually unchanged. Protection for VDV units is always going to be meek at best and questionable at worst. We have seen the very unsatisfactory protection of the previous series BMD's and the new variant isn't going to be a panacea.  

    It makes sense if you want to drop these vehicles as Scout along with BMD's as backbone of VDV. It's simply more flexibility.

    Manned reconnaissance? Oh yes, just the future. Just amussing.

    Are you questioning the BMD-4M platform? More amussing still...

    4.5/7 ton? Trying to look an "expert" but looking the contrary. Weird.

    13.5 tons BMD-4M (BMD-4M platform) http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmd_4m.htm
    13.2 tons BTR-MD (BMD-4M platform) http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_md_rakushka.htm
    18 tons 2S25 Sprut-SDM1 (BMD-4M platform) http://www.military-today.com/tanks/sprut_sdm1.htm
    21 tons Kamaz 63968 (Typhoon 6x6 platform) http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_taifun.htm
    24 tons Ural 63095 (Typhoon 6x6 platform) http://www.military-today.com/apc/ural_taifun.htm

    20 tons Kamaz 63969 (Typhoon 6x6 platform) http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_63969.htm
    24 tons Ural 63099 (Typhoon 6x6 platform) http://tonnel-ufo.ru/eanglish/articles.php?id=2745

    12 tons Kamaz 53949 (Typhoon 4x4 platform) http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_53949.htm
    11 tons Kamaz 4386 (Typhoon 4x4 platform) http://foto-i-mir.ru/kamaz-4386/
    16 tons Ural 53099 (Typhoon 4x4 platform) http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/ural_of_russia_has_developed_new_4x4_mrap_armoured_vehicle_ural-53099_taifun-u_10312152.html

    The first group, in and likely in the Russian Armed Forces. The second group a little redundant. The third group likely out by problems reaching the current Russian standards.


    12 ton 4x4 ... even the SPM-3 was 10 ton. The K-VDV is not a 12 ton machine with a Stanag 3 level. The Tigr M on heaviest variant already equivalent with 8,4 tons and horrible balance. Typical GOST6 SPM-V is a 6 ton armored vehicle. It's just not funny anymore. Compare the vehicles you're talking about. K-VDV is shorter, less armored and rearranged for VDV compared with the Taifun K allegedly at 12 tons.

    4.5/7 tons... Owned... It happens because you talk before to read. See the link for the Kamaz 4386, the proposed Airborne Troops variant. It talks about the size.  There even you have a picture of the vehicle with a Tigr. See the difference of size.

    MRAP means weight, not possible to avoid it, and 12-14 tons is being short for an effective MRAP in the current Russian standards. The problems with the tests say it. Talking about 4.5/7 tons for MRAP vehicles is a joke.

    It's still a 7 ton class vehicle. It's a modular MRAP with variable protection levels and a 30mm turret. Yeah it's about 20 cm higher and about 40 cm wider.

    MRAP doesn't mean weight by default. Just look at the OTOKAR COBRA that achieves very good survavibility without getting at 10+ tons RG-31 Nyala didn't get above 7 tons. The RG34 didn't get above 10 tons either. And these cuties were V-hull.
    A vehicle like the BMD-4M are not optimized at all re-IED's and Mines is general. And before you talk more smack, we saw what Houthi IED's can do to BMP-3's in Yemen. And the Protection level is almost identical.

    What plagued most MRAP's with MBT weight is two things, EFP's (which meant that you needed a lot more metal on the sides.) and C2.

    Also When you see vehicles like the RG35 in action and you know that their Stanag-3 certification puts them at 17.6 tons you wonder what exactly went wrong with all the BS +20 ton armored trucks.


    You have the SPM-2 that doesn't exceed 8.4 tons, with the Arbalet Turret. Short for a MRAP 12 tons?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:54 am

    Can you please stop re quoting posts you are not replying to.

    There is a forum rule regarding this too.

    when you choose to quote another persons post please delete the parts you are not replying to so that the whole message does not get repeated over and over and your posts get longer and longer with stuff you are not actually replying to.


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    Cplnew83

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  Cplnew83 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:40 pm

    I've got a question : What's the purpose of the barrel sleeve mounted on the BM-30 module of the Typhoon-VDV ?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:Can you please stop re quoting posts you are not replying to.

    There is a forum rule regarding this too.

    when you choose to quote another persons post please delete the parts you are not replying to so that the whole message does not get repeated over and over and your posts get longer and longer with stuff you are not actually replying to.

    How about actually enforcing this rule instead of just talking about it?

    Syrian treads have become pretty much useless, especially on the phone.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:50 pm

    Cplnew83 wrote:I've got a question : What's the purpose of the barrel sleeve mounted on the BM-30 module of the Typhoon-VDV ?

    2 possibilities.

    1. Small protection for gas system. 2A42 is a gas driven system (which makes sense if you want a compact gun on a rather lighter turret - see Mi 28 variants).
    2. Purely Aesthetic.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  Militarov on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:24 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Cplnew83 wrote:I've got a question : What's the purpose of the barrel sleeve mounted on the BM-30 module of the Typhoon-VDV ?

    2 possibilities.

    1. Small protection for gas system. 2A42 is a gas driven system (which makes sense if you want a compact gun on a rather lighter turret - see Mi 28 variants).
    2. Purely Aesthetic.

    Could be part of some cooling mechanism too, in form of radiator. Not very likely in this case but just saying Very Happy
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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:39 am

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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  TheGeorgian on Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:19 am

    franco wrote:New Tigr being tested including with a 30mm cannon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGZvdb1tp3Y


    30mm neat. Kinda envy Russia for it's production capabilities.

    I especialy love the urban combat turret mount.

    About the Typhoon. If the armor is Stanag lvl3 it will protect against 7.62x54mmR
    and generally 7.62 AP. I wonder tho if the mine blast protection is correct. It says 8kg mines wich would also suggest lvl3 protection. That would actualy be quite an achievement.
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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Tue May 09, 2017 9:13 pm





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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 12, 2017 12:26 am


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    franco

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  franco on Fri May 26, 2017 8:44 pm

    The principal decision to develop projects for similar army trucks in Russia was made in 2010, when the Concept for the Development of Military Automotive Equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the Period to 2020 was approved. The Typhoon family managed to create in the shortest possible time, thanks to the joint efforts of more than 120 enterprises. The decisive contribution was made by the Kamsky and Ural automobile factories, which presented the armored cars "Typhoon-K" and "Typhoon-U" respectively. For the first time these machines were presented to the public in 2014 at the Victory Parade in Moscow.

    Different approaches


    The armored vehicles of the family are unified by engines, information-control system, mine protection and suspension. They can be installed remotely controlled machine gun module. Combined armor (ceramics and steel), as well as armored glass, provide round protection for Typhoons from all types of small arms ammunition up to 14.5 mm armor-piercing bullets B-32. Both machines are capable of withstanding explosion under the bottom of an explosive device up to eight kilograms in TNT equivalent. This is more than enough to protect against most modern anti-tank mines.

    "Typhoons" are able to reach speeds of up to 105 kilometers per hour. The range of travel on one tank is up to 1400 kilometers: twice as much as in the case of old men of Ural-375. Both cars are made according to the 6x6 formula and have an independent hydropneumatic suspension, which allows to change the ground clearance, and can carry 16 people each. In the cockpit and amphibious units of the "Typhoons" there are multifunction displays, which display images from external cameras, night vision devices and remotely controlled weapons.

    Both "Typhoon" in general are equivalent and comparable in their tactical and technical characteristics. The difference is only in the layout. Manufacturers remained true to their own approaches: "Typhoon-K" is traditionally used for KamAZ cars in a no-hood scheme. In turn, "Typhoon-U", like all the "Urals", the hood has. A high level of unification makes it possible to collect for the needs of the Armed Forces two identical machines at different plants, without reorganizing their production lines. We see something similar in military aircraft building. The Ministry of Defense buys for the needs of the military security corps comparable in their capabilities fighters Su-30SM and Su-35S. The first are produced in Irkutsk, the latter - in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. The purchase of two types of aircraft allows the loading of both plants by orders and eventually increases the number of new fighters entering the troops.

    To date, there are about 180 units of the Typhoon-U and 260 Typhoon-K vehicles in the fleet of the Russian Armed Forces. The latter were used by Russian sappers in Syria during the demining of cities liberated from terrorists. In the future plans of the Ministry of Defense - the purchase of new lots of "Typhoons". The troops need not hundreds, but thousands of similar machines. Most likely, most of the supplies will go to the State Program of Armaments for 2018-2025.

    EDIT: more units active then I thought
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    eehnie

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  eehnie on Fri May 26, 2017 9:15 pm

    franco wrote:The principal decision to develop projects for similar army trucks in Russia was made in 2010, when the Concept for the Development of Military Automotive Equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the Period to 2020 was approved. The Typhoon family managed to create in the shortest possible time, thanks to the joint efforts of more than 120 enterprises. The decisive contribution was made by the Kamsky and Ural automobile factories, which presented the armored cars "Typhoon-K" and "Typhoon-U" respectively. For the first time these machines were presented to the public in 2014 at the Victory Parade in Moscow.

    Different approaches


    The armored vehicles of the family are unified by engines, information-control system, mine protection and suspension. They can be installed remotely controlled machine gun module. Combined armor (ceramics and steel), as well as armored glass, provide round protection for Typhoons from all types of small arms ammunition up to 14.5 mm armor-piercing bullets B-32. Both machines are capable of withstanding explosion under the bottom of an explosive device up to eight kilograms in TNT equivalent. This is more than enough to protect against most modern anti-tank mines.

    "Typhoons" are able to reach speeds of up to 105 kilometers per hour. The range of travel on one tank is up to 1400 kilometers: twice as much as in the case of old men of Ural-375. Both cars are made according to the 6x6 formula and have an independent hydropneumatic suspension, which allows to change the ground clearance, and can carry 16 people each. In the cockpit and amphibious units of the "Typhoons" there are multifunction displays, which display images from external cameras, night vision devices and remotely controlled weapons.

    Both "Typhoon" in general are equivalent and comparable in their tactical and technical characteristics. The difference is only in the layout. Manufacturers remained true to their own approaches: "Typhoon-K" is traditionally used for KamAZ cars in a no-hood scheme. In turn, "Typhoon-U", like all the "Urals", the hood has. A high level of unification makes it possible to collect for the needs of the Armed Forces two identical machines at different plants, without reorganizing their production lines. We see something similar in military aircraft building. The Ministry of Defense buys for the needs of the military security corps comparable in their capabilities fighters Su-30SM and Su-35S. The first are produced in Irkutsk, the latter - in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. The purchase of two types of aircraft allows the loading of both plants by orders and eventually increases the number of new fighters entering the troops.

    To date, there are about 180 units of the Typhoon-U and 260 Typhoon-K vehicles in the fleet of the Russian Armed Forces. The latter were used by Russian sappers in Syria during the demining of cities liberated from terrorists. In the future plans of the Ministry of Defense - the purchase of new lots of "Typhoons". The troops need not hundreds, but thousands of similar machines. Most likely, most of the supplies will go to the State Program of Armaments for 2018-2025.

    EDIT: more units active then I thought

    The production going fast.  It is logical. These machines had not troubles with the tests, and are in fact the wheeled light platform in the future Russian Armed Forces (with the BMD-4M being the light tracked platform). Smaller alternatives are having problems with the tests and this is not a good sign. Being smaller obviously have lower protection and lower capacity of troops, but also taking engines of less power, they have not advantage on mobility. I expect Russia to move on with the Typhoons 6x6 and to go forward with high levels of standardization.

    I do not see room for the smaller projects as combat vehicles. In my opinion, if an air-droppable variant is needed, it should be developed from the typhoon 6x6 platform.

    Likely the alone option for smaller vehicles in the Russian Armed Forces is for the roles of auxiliary vehicles (transport, light utility, some engineering role,...) to work outside of the contested areas, and for it they have to compete with the current range of vehicles in production (UAZ 469, Ural 4320, Kamaz 4310, Kamaz 4350, GAZ Tigr and UAZ Patriot) present in the Russian Armed Forces.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat May 27, 2017 6:26 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:The principal decision to develop projects for similar army trucks in Russia was made in 2010, when the Concept for the Development of Military Automotive Equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the Period to 2020 was approved. The Typhoon family managed to create in the shortest possible time, thanks to the joint efforts of more than 120 enterprises. The decisive contribution was made by the Kamsky and Ural automobile factories, which presented the armored cars "Typhoon-K" and "Typhoon-U" respectively. For the first time these machines were presented to the public in 2014 at the Victory Parade in Moscow.

    Different approaches


    The armored vehicles of the family are unified by engines, information-control system, mine protection and suspension. They can be installed remotely controlled machine gun module. Combined armor (ceramics and steel), as well as armored glass, provide round protection for Typhoons from all types of small arms ammunition up to 14.5 mm armor-piercing bullets B-32. Both machines are capable of withstanding explosion under the bottom of an explosive device up to eight kilograms in TNT equivalent. This is more than enough to protect against most modern anti-tank mines.

    "Typhoons" are able to reach speeds of up to 105 kilometers per hour. The range of travel on one tank is up to 1400 kilometers: twice as much as in the case of old men of Ural-375. Both cars are made according to the 6x6 formula and have an independent hydropneumatic suspension, which allows to change the ground clearance, and can carry 16 people each. In the cockpit and amphibious units of the "Typhoons" there are multifunction displays, which display images from external cameras, night vision devices and remotely controlled weapons.

    Both "Typhoon" in general are equivalent and comparable in their tactical and technical characteristics. The difference is only in the layout. Manufacturers remained true to their own approaches: "Typhoon-K" is traditionally used for KamAZ cars in a no-hood scheme. In turn, "Typhoon-U", like all the "Urals", the hood has. A high level of unification makes it possible to collect for the needs of the Armed Forces two identical machines at different plants, without reorganizing their production lines. We see something similar in military aircraft building. The Ministry of Defense buys for the needs of the military security corps comparable in their capabilities fighters Su-30SM and Su-35S. The first are produced in Irkutsk, the latter - in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. The purchase of two types of aircraft allows the loading of both plants by orders and eventually increases the number of new fighters entering the troops.

    To date, there are about 180 units of the Typhoon-U and 260 Typhoon-K vehicles in the fleet of the Russian Armed Forces. The latter were used by Russian sappers in Syria during the demining of cities liberated from terrorists. In the future plans of the Ministry of Defense - the purchase of new lots of "Typhoons". The troops need not hundreds, but thousands of similar machines. Most likely, most of the supplies will go to the State Program of Armaments for 2018-2025.

    EDIT: more units active then I thought

    The production going fast.  It is logical. These machines had not troubles with the tests, and are in fact the wheeled light platform in the future Russian Armed Forces (with the BMD-4M being the light tracked platform). Smaller alternatives are having problems with the tests and this is not a good sign. Being smaller obviously have lower protection and lower capacity of troops, but also taking engines of less power, they have not advantage on mobility. I expect Russia to move on with the Typhoons 6x6 and to go forward with high levels of standardization.

    I do not see room for the smaller projects as combat vehicles. In my opinion, if an air-droppable variant is needed, it should be developed from the typhoon 6x6 platform.

    Likely the alone option for smaller vehicles in the Russian Armed Forces is for the roles of auxiliary vehicles (transport, light utility, some engineering role,...) to work outside of the contested areas, and for it they have to compete with the current range of vehicles in production (UAZ 469, Ural 4320, Kamaz 4310, Kamaz 4350, GAZ Tigr and UAZ Patriot) present in the Russian Armed Forces.

    May I ask your sources? The 4x4 MRAPS from Kamaz are being tested in Syria. So far, everything seems to be smooth sailing for it. Actually, such system seems to be ideal for future of Russia's wheeled vehicles. Although it seems Tiger-M is getting preferential treatment for some reason. Maybe due to being lighter and could be used as a good system for border guards.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  eehnie on Mon May 29, 2017 2:44 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:The principal decision to develop projects for similar army trucks in Russia was made in 2010, when the Concept for the Development of Military Automotive Equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation for the Period to 2020 was approved. The Typhoon family managed to create in the shortest possible time, thanks to the joint efforts of more than 120 enterprises. The decisive contribution was made by the Kamsky and Ural automobile factories, which presented the armored cars "Typhoon-K" and "Typhoon-U" respectively. For the first time these machines were presented to the public in 2014 at the Victory Parade in Moscow.

    Different approaches


    The armored vehicles of the family are unified by engines, information-control system, mine protection and suspension. They can be installed remotely controlled machine gun module. Combined armor (ceramics and steel), as well as armored glass, provide round protection for Typhoons from all types of small arms ammunition up to 14.5 mm armor-piercing bullets B-32. Both machines are capable of withstanding explosion under the bottom of an explosive device up to eight kilograms in TNT equivalent. This is more than enough to protect against most modern anti-tank mines.

    "Typhoons" are able to reach speeds of up to 105 kilometers per hour. The range of travel on one tank is up to 1400 kilometers: twice as much as in the case of old men of Ural-375. Both cars are made according to the 6x6 formula and have an independent hydropneumatic suspension, which allows to change the ground clearance, and can carry 16 people each. In the cockpit and amphibious units of the "Typhoons" there are multifunction displays, which display images from external cameras, night vision devices and remotely controlled weapons.

    Both "Typhoon" in general are equivalent and comparable in their tactical and technical characteristics. The difference is only in the layout. Manufacturers remained true to their own approaches: "Typhoon-K" is traditionally used for KamAZ cars in a no-hood scheme. In turn, "Typhoon-U", like all the "Urals", the hood has. A high level of unification makes it possible to collect for the needs of the Armed Forces two identical machines at different plants, without reorganizing their production lines. We see something similar in military aircraft building. The Ministry of Defense buys for the needs of the military security corps comparable in their capabilities fighters Su-30SM and Su-35S. The first are produced in Irkutsk, the latter - in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. The purchase of two types of aircraft allows the loading of both plants by orders and eventually increases the number of new fighters entering the troops.

    To date, there are about 180 units of the Typhoon-U and 260 Typhoon-K vehicles in the fleet of the Russian Armed Forces. The latter were used by Russian sappers in Syria during the demining of cities liberated from terrorists. In the future plans of the Ministry of Defense - the purchase of new lots of "Typhoons". The troops need not hundreds, but thousands of similar machines. Most likely, most of the supplies will go to the State Program of Armaments for 2018-2025.

    EDIT: more units active then I thought

    The production going fast.  It is logical. These machines had not troubles with the tests, and are in fact the wheeled light platform in the future Russian Armed Forces (with the BMD-4M being the light tracked platform). Smaller alternatives are having problems with the tests and this is not a good sign. Being smaller obviously have lower protection and lower capacity of troops, but also taking engines of less power, they have not advantage on mobility. I expect Russia to move on with the Typhoons 6x6 and to go forward with high levels of standardization.

    I do not see room for the smaller projects as combat vehicles. In my opinion, if an air-droppable variant is needed, it should be developed from the typhoon 6x6 platform.

    Likely the alone option for smaller vehicles in the Russian Armed Forces is for the roles of auxiliary vehicles (transport, light utility, some engineering role,...) to work outside of the contested areas, and for it they have to compete with the current range of vehicles in production (UAZ 469, Ural 4320, Kamaz 4310, Kamaz 4350, GAZ Tigr and UAZ Patriot) present in the Russian Armed Forces.

    May I ask your sources?  The 4x4 MRAPS from Kamaz are being tested in Syria.  So far, everything seems to be smooth sailing for it.  Actually, such system seems to be ideal for future of Russia's wheeled vehicles.  Although it seems Tiger-M is getting preferential treatment for some reason.  Maybe due to being lighter and could be used as a good system for border guards.

    There are many sources combined. Multiple news about small vehicles that begin the tests, while there are not news about the same vehicles approving the tests, being ordered and being delivered to the Russian Armed Forces. As example the problems with the BPM-97 have been public, also the problems with the Typhoon 4x4.

    Unilike at the begin of this decade, now there is not a public rejection of the vehicles, to kill not their export prospect, but at the end the things are known by one or other way.

    Without count the big new platforms (Armata, Kurganets, Bumerang, BMD-4M and Typhoon 6x6), from recent years we only can count as clearly in the Russian Armed Forces:

    - BTR-90 (out of production)
    - Bulat 6x6 apc

    - GAZ Tigr
    - UAZ Patriot
    - Iveco LMV (with this likely to disappear from the Russian Armed Forces, if not done at this point, because of being a foreign design)

    And most of them also had important problems.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon May 29, 2017 5:57 am

    Initially. The first system you mentioned isn't actually being developed anymore and the rest are simply systems leftover and being used. The Typhoon 4x4 I have not heard anything regarding problems, at least not since the first initial system was created years ago. So I am not sure what you are referring to. The Vystral and the like are systems known to have issues long ago so that is understandable. If Typhoon 4x4 shares the same as the 6x6 then there shouldn't be any issues except for possible structural issues due to less amount of tires and needed suspension. Distribution of the weight. But that should not be an issue due to the scaling down of size.

    Care to share the sources?
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    eehnie

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  eehnie on Mon May 29, 2017 6:54 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Initially.  The first system you mentioned isn't actually being developed anymore and the rest are simply systems leftover and being used.  The Typhoon 4x4 I have not heard anything regarding problems, at least not since the first initial system was created years ago.  So I am not sure what you are referring to.  The Vystral and the like are systems known to have issues long ago so that is understandable.  If Typhoon 4x4 shares the same as the 6x6 then there shouldn't be any issues except for possible structural issues due to less amount of tires and needed suspension.  Distribution of the weight.  But that should not be an issue due to the scaling down of size.

    Care to share the sources?

    http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_53949.htm
    The KamAZ-53949 is a Russian mine resistant ambush protected vehicle (MRAP). It is nicknamed the Taifunionok. This vehicle was developed by KamAZ as a private venture to meet a possible Russian Army requirement. Development commenced somewhere in 2010. This mine resistant vehicle was first publicly revealed in 2013. Testing of this vehicle was planned to be completed in 2015. However in 2014 it has been reported that this vehicle will not be produced for the Russian armed forces, due to sanctions imposed on Russia. It appeared that the KamAZ-53949 uses a large number of Western components. These are either directly supplied from the West, or are license-produced locally. Still though in 2016 it was announced that since 2017 this mine protected vehicle will be marketed internationally.

    It is one example. There are more.

    As commented before today Russia is more careful with the export prospect of the models that are not accepted.



    Last edited by eehnie on Mon May 29, 2017 7:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon May 29, 2017 6:58 am

    Then I see them using it many years later in more numbers which leads me to believe that the issue you stated has been resolved thanks to import substitution which has been mentioned as one of Kamaz's success.

    What are the other issues?
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    eehnie

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  eehnie on Mon May 29, 2017 7:30 am

    In a few words, comparing the data of the Typhoon-K 6x6 and the Typhoon 4x4 we can see:

    http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_taifun.htm
    http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_53949.htm

    - Being done with the same materials, the weight relation can be a good measure to see about protection of the crew. 75% more weight for the 6x6. Clear advantage on protection.

    - The smaller should have an economic advantage, but is more apparent than real, because while the Typhoon 4x4 is designed for 2+8, the Typhoon 6x6 is designed for 2+16+. It means that more than 2 Typhoon 4x4 are needed to transport the same troops than one Typhoon-K 6x6. Also it means more than twice personel (and salaries) for crew of the vehicles needed to transport the same soldiers.

    - Finally, also the smaller should have an advantage on mobility, but while the Typhoon-K 6x6 has an engine of 450hp, the Typhoon 4x4 has one of 350hp. 28.6% of advantage for the Typhoon-K. It kills most of the potential advantage on mobility for the smaller, as we can see comparing the maximum speed and the rest of the data about maneuverability. Only 16.7% advantage on speed for the Typhoon 4x4, and few more.

    The result of all it is that the Typhoon 4x4 has nothing significant to offer vs the Typhoon 6x6 advantage on protection of the troops. As consequence, is not ordered for the Russian Armed Forces.

    The problems of the smaller vehicles in the tests are almost always related with the protection of the crew and the troops moved.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon May 29, 2017 11:23 am

    eehnie wrote:In a few words, comparing the data of the Typhoon-K 6x6 and the Typhoon 4x4 we can see:

    http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_taifun.htm
    http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_53949.htm

    - Being done with the same materials, the weight relation can be a good measure to see about protection of the crew. 75% more weight for the 6x6. Clear advantage on protection.

    - The smaller should have an economic advantage, but is more apparent than real, because while the Typhoon 4x4 is designed for 2+8, the Typhoon 6x6 is designed for 2+16+. It means that more than 2 Typhoon 4x4 are needed to transport the same troops than one Typhoon-K 6x6. Also it means more than twice personel (and salaries) for crew of the vehicles needed to transport the same soldiers.

    - Finally, also the smaller should have an advantage on mobility, but while the Typhoon-K 6x6 has an engine of 450hp, the Typhoon 4x4 has one of 350hp. 28.6% of advantage for the Typhoon-K. It kills most of the potential advantage on mobility for the smaller, as we can see comparing the maximum speed and the rest of the data about maneuverability. Only 16.7% advantage on speed for the Typhoon 4x4, and few more.

    The result of all it is that the Typhoon 4x4 has nothing significant to offer vs the Typhoon 6x6 advantage on protection of the troops. As consequence, is not ordered for the Russian Armed Forces.

    The problems of the smaller vehicles in the tests are almost always related with the protection of the crew and the troops moved.

    If we go by your own link has fact then it even states the 4x4 will not be produced because Russia cannot manufacture it's parts.
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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  eehnie on Mon May 29, 2017 4:32 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    eehnie wrote:In a few words, comparing the data of the Typhoon-K 6x6 and the Typhoon 4x4 we can see:

    http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_taifun.htm
    http://www.military-today.com/apc/kamaz_53949.htm

    - Being done with the same materials, the weight relation can be a good measure to see about protection of the crew. 75% more weight for the 6x6. Clear advantage on protection.

    - The smaller should have an economic advantage, but is more apparent than real, because while the Typhoon 4x4 is designed for 2+8, the Typhoon 6x6 is designed for 2+16+. It means that more than 2 Typhoon 4x4 are needed to transport the same troops than one Typhoon-K 6x6. Also it means more than twice personel (and salaries) for crew of the vehicles needed to transport the same soldiers.

    - Finally, also the smaller should have an advantage on mobility, but while the Typhoon-K 6x6 has an engine of 450hp, the Typhoon 4x4 has one of 350hp. 28.6% of advantage for the Typhoon-K. It kills most of the potential advantage on mobility for the smaller, as we can see comparing the maximum speed and the rest of the data about maneuverability. Only 16.7% advantage on speed for the Typhoon 4x4, and few more.

    The result of all it is that the Typhoon 4x4 has nothing significant to offer vs the Typhoon 6x6 advantage on protection of the troops. As consequence, is not ordered for the Russian Armed Forces.

    The problems of the smaller vehicles in the tests are almost always related with the protection of the crew and the troops moved.

    If we go by your own link has fact then it even states the 4x4 will not be produced because Russia cannot manufacture it's parts.

    It has been a work to offer them for export, by 2017 it should be producible. The part of the foreign components can be corregible, maybe corrected at this point, but still it will not make the vehicle competitibe with the Typhoon 6x6. The situation exposed in my previous comment is common to all the smaller vehicles.
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    Book.

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

    Post  Book. on Mon May 29, 2017 11:21 pm

    eehnie wrote:It has been a work to offer them for export, by 2017 it should be producible. The part of the foreign components can be corregible, maybe corrected at this point, but still it will not make the vehicle competitibe with the Typhoon 6x6. The situation exposed in my previous comment is common to all the smaller vehicles.

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    Re: Typhoon MRAP family vechiles

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