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    T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:47 am

    Austin wrote:Indian T-90 Upgrade (  pg 23 , 28,29 )
    http://www.geopolitics.in/july2013.aspx

    Interesting, so they're definitely not going for the full T-90MS.

    BTW, I read comments by "Gur Khan" who believes that the Armata won't be the main Russian tank of the future. He thinks the MOD rushed into developing the Armata on false premises. He thinks the Armata will prove to be complicated and expensive and will be inducted in relatively  low numbers. He believes a domestic version of the T-90MS will be the mainstay of Russian tank forces by 2020 and beyond.


    ________


    A "robot gun" in development for Armata and Kurganets-25....a firing system that will automatically fire on designated targets until they're destroyed.

    Arrow http://news.rambler.ru/19888832/
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:57 am

    I think Khlopotov is freaking out needlessly, but that is just me. If the first pics leak and it has either T-90MS turret or chassis, he is correct. Otherwise, over the top hysterics.

    Guy must be having a bad week.

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    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:09 am

    Its good to have a prudent mix of Armata and T-90MA considering cost effectiveness ........inducting T-90MA would also boost the long term export potential of T-90MS. Later an export model of Armata can be developed.
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    Post  Zivo on Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:35 am

    Wasn't there a report out earlier this year stating some of the T-90A's in service were unmaintained?

    I can see a lot of T-90's already in use being upgraded to the MA standard. But in my honest opinion, the T-72 lineage has peaked. You can add on as many toys as you want, but the problems with the original design are still there. Armata is the next logical step in heavy armor.

    Regarding Armata exports, it's hard to tell if they will have market appeal. Armata is not a vehicle but a family of vehicles, and I'm not sure it will be economical for a smaller country to pick and choose from that family. The T-90MS may be the better choice in the future for small purchases.

    TR1, you might be right about Khlopotov. I'm kind of disappointed about his opinion right now.
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    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:24 pm

    New Russian thermal imaging devices for tanks
    http://www.rostec.ru/news/2171

    The Agat-MDT sight system can find its target in the dark at a range of up to 4km



    Krasnogorsky Zavod, manufacturer of the famous Zenit cameras and part of the Shvabe holding company, has developed a new sight system for tanks which can find its target in total darkness at a range of up to 4km.

    The system is unique in that it has been assembled entirely from Russian parts and is based on Orion’s 100% Russian-made matrix with one-of-a-kind 640x512 pixel resolution.

    This innovative system can only be fitted to the T-72, T-80 and T-90 tanks.

    Alexander Tarasov, Krasnogorsky Zavod CEO, believes that the T-72 and T-90 have great potential for modification and export.

    “Our foreign partners have shown much interest in the T-90, and Peru recently announced plans to purchase the T-90S. Furthermore, Russia’s Ministry of Defence is actively involved in the modification of the T-72 and the T-90 tanks. We therefore believe that this product has a great future,” Tarasov told Izvestiya.

    He also stated that Krasnogorsky Zavod viewed the Agat-MDT as an intermediate product and that it was continuing to develop optical-mechanical systems for future tanks.

    Vladimir Gutenev, first deputy chairman of the State Duma’s Committee for Industry, told Izvestiya that the creation of the Agat meant that Russian tank manufacturers would no longer have to rely on imported thermal imaging devices.

    “Up until now, the export version of the T-90 had been fitted with thermal imaging devices by Thales of France. The Agat meets the same specifications. The Shvabe holding company, which includes Krasnogorsky Zavod, is now filling a niche market for these devices. This is a huge step forward, making us competitive in the market for these rather expensive pieces of equipment,” Gutenev said.

    He added that the Russian thermal imaging device not only meant that Russian tanks would no longer need to be equipped with foreign parts, but it also meant that complete tank modernization was possible. Furthermore, Gutenev expects that there will be no decrease in demand for the T-72 and the T-90 in the next few years.

    “These tanks will be modified and sold abroad. Thanks to the Agat system they will be easier to modify without relying on foreign suppliers,” he explained.

    According to Krasnogorsky Zavod, the Agat-MDT commander’s combined target sight system with the Russian thermal imaging device will be able to detect and identify moving and non-moving enemy targets at a range of up to 4km, measure the distance to a target with its laser rangefinder and aim the shot from the tank’s cannon or gun.
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    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:25 pm

    So the new TI system is comparable to French 2nd Gen Catherine-FC but not as good as 3rd Gen Catherine-XP used on T-90MS ?
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:20 pm

    Austin wrote:So the new TI system is comparable to French 2nd Gen Catherine-FC but not as good as 3rd Gen Catherine-XP used on T-90MS ?

    Sounds about right, which is quite the jump from not having anything to build thermal cameras not too many years ago, to being able to build smeting close to Catherine-FC. Although, that may change as Russia builds Catherine-XP.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:22 am

    Regarding talk of the T-90AM being the future backbone of the Russian Army that was the plan when the T-95 was still a work in progress.
    The whole concept of the vehicle families requires that the whole unit adopts the same vehicle so that the benefits can be realised.

    I suspect the Medium and Light brigades will be easy to produce though their electronic and sensor suites will be sophisticated and not cheap they will also greatly increase the performance of such units.

    To fully deliver however they would need to be integrated into a net centric battle network which most countries can't afford but even without that network connection these vehicles will be very well armed and equipped and also very well protected from threats of all kinds.

    I see no reason why mixed units could not be put together where mobility was not so important and the logistics tail did not have to be kept short where the Armata MBT and BMPT could be used together as the fire power of the unit while the IFV and APC could deliver troops etc etc.

    Regarding the Thermal sights the Catherine XP is in production in Russia and is a QWIP based IIR sensor. Work on it along with experience with other weapon types like Morfei and indeed perhaps HERMES and Ugroza and multi sensor IIR guided weapons like Kh-38 or Kh-25 could lead to a revolution in Russian weapons as a small cheap QWIP sensor could offer affordable fire and forget capability for a range of weapons and platforms.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:46 am

    Will Russian Army will buy new T-90MS/AM .....any hints about it ?
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    Post  indochina on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:18 pm

    I think, with the ability to jam IR Shtora, can help T-90 MBT is effective against Javelin, i had read somewhere that T-90 is equipped with flares

    Two electro-optical/infrared (IR) "dazzlers" interface station one each mounted to the left and right of the main gun, which includes an infrared jammer, modulator, and control panel.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtora

    The gunner uses the CLU’s IR system to find and identify the target then switches to the missile’s independent IR system to set a track box around the target and establish a lock. The gunner places brackets around the image for locking.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

    Thus, during operation, Javelin can't attack because have been jam by shtora, however shtora affected by the T-90 turret (Angle of rotation). But this will be offset by Nakidka system camo, reduced RCS / IR signature of the T-90, CLU's Javelin very difficult to range 2km, it is completely blind before the object is not transparent as tree or stone
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:48 am

    Javelin has two guidance modes... fire and forget and semi automatic command to line of sight.

    The first mode is its trick, the second is just the same as most other ATGM on the market with most other missiles offering better range or penetration or speed or a combination of all three.

    The fire and forget mode requires an IR signature to get an initial lock so Nakidka or a smoke screen will make that fairly difficult to impossible.

    In conventional SACLOS mode it is a horizontal attack missile like any other standard missile and therefore vulnerable to the various defences against such weapons like Shtora, Smoke, and ARENA/Drodz APS.

    Very simply as a command to line of sight missile the Javelin needs to be able to track where the missile is so it can detect any deviation from the line of sight and transmit course corrections to the missile. Shtora dazzles the optical tracking of Javelin making its position relative to the target impossible to determine by the guidance system hense it fails.
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:56 am

    Austin wrote:Will Russian Army will buy new T-90MS/AM .....any hints about it ?
    Hell, they already waited this long, why not just go wait for two more years.
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:02 pm

    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2013/10/blog-post_30.html

    Intersting post by Gur Khan- regarding that picture that showed up a while ago that shows comparative protection between Relikt and K-5. The chart supposedly showed that T-90A with K-5 could not even stop m829a2...but the document shows this is false info. Chart was just done to show Relikt in better light.
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    Post  a89 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:18 pm

    Today he was very critical with T-90 and upgraded T-72:

    http://gurkhan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/blog-post_2258.html
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:28 pm

    Criticism is mostly directed at exploitation of vehicles too.

    It is a relevant question especially with new sensitive (electronically and sensor wise) vehicles.

    However I should say the pics of the T-90As and T-72s in Abkhazia and Ossetia garrisons that I saw showed much better conditions.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:51 am

    Will Russian Army will buy new T-90MS/AM .....any hints about it ?
    I would say that would depend.

    On a few things like how much Armata costs to buy and operate and production schedules for all the new vehicles.

    If they are expensive and slow to get into service it might make sense to adapt the T-90AM with the electronic suite and systems of the armata and a cheaper lighter alternative to supplement numbers.

    I suspect export for the late model T-90s should remain fairly healthy anyway.
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Will Russian Army will buy new T-90MS/AM .....any hints about it ?
    I would say that would depend.

    On a few things like how much Armata costs to buy and operate and production schedules for all the new vehicles.

    If they are expensive and slow to get into service it might make sense to adapt the T-90AM with the electronic suite and systems of the armata and a cheaper lighter alternative to supplement numbers.

    I suspect export for the late model T-90s should remain fairly healthy anyway.
    Would be awesome if they can retrofit the armata new electronics, era, gun to t-90/late model t-72,
    It would have awesome protection and firepower, the su-35s/ su-30mki of tanks resp.. T-90AM could even match m1a4 if m1a4 doesnt adopt unmanned turret.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:34 pm

    because i am a bit confused. Do we know the approx. number of T-90s in service?
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:39 pm

    George1 wrote:because i am a bit confused. Do we know the approx. number of T-90s in service?
    Close to 500.
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    Post  TR1 on Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:28 pm

    According to same source who posted about 2A82 (see ground forces thread), the T-90AM with the new gun and ammo will be delivered in 2014-2015, as an "urgent solution" to god knows what. Some say the tank biathlon...
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:19 am

    So this is confirmation there is going to be T-90AM then. however i do hope this 'T-90AM' is just T-90A upgraded with new gun, FCS, ERA from armata mbt. this T-90AM might turn out to be impressive tho it still is a stopgap so dont overdo it plox.
    aside, i wonder how much better new gun + new ammo stands up to 120 mm l/55 and dm53, to me the german approach to armor busting has much more potential than throwing massive hunks of DU at rel. slower speeds. with tungsten you could optimize it up to 2.5km/s, while DU only at 2.1km/s and you lose self-sharpening afaik.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:35 am

    DU involves exposing your crews to genotoxic materials, and actually firing them would require an extensive clean up... it simply is not worth the minor increase in performance over more expensive materials.
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    Post  medo on Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:08 pm

    TR1 wrote:According to same source who posted about 2A82 (see ground forces thread), the T-90AM with the new gun and ammo will be delivered in 2014-2015, as an "urgent solution" to god knows what. Some say the tank biathlon...

    With retiring T-80, they need new build tanks in the mean time Armata is ready for production and become operational.
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    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:50 am

    TR1 wrote:68 tons!
     
    Yes but thats with Track Width Mine Plough and ERA etc

    How much does T-90A and T-90MS weight with Mine Plough ?
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    Post  Zivo on Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:53 am

    Austin wrote:Any one knows how much T-90 weighs with mine plough ?

    These small track width plows are probably 2-3 tons. I don't know for sure, that's just a guess based on my experience with farm equipment.

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