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    T-90 Main Battle Tank

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    Austin

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    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:51 pm

    Nice Video of T-90MS

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    Post  KRATOS1133 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:15 pm

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    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:12 am

    KRATOS1133 , Since you are from Algeria how is T-90 performing in Algerian Army.
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    Post  KRATOS1133 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:26 am

    Our ground forces are very satisfied with their T-90SA/SKA (even in the Sahara), they were inducted into an elite armoured division called "8ème DB" stationed in the west frontier

    T-90 Main Battle Tank - Page 13 T90sa



    We are also going to acquire Tagil tanks (to counter Morocco's purchase of 200 M1A1-AIM)

    18.07.2011
    According to «Профиля», "Rosoboronexport" is about to sign a contract to supply 300 tanks T-90 to Algeria.
    http://www.profile.ru/items/?item=32524
    http://www.cgi-bin/uis/w3.cgi/CMS/Item/crt6c579efb58
    http://vpk.name/news/55222_zakazyi_ne_prinimayutsya.html


    03.09.2011

    On the eve of the Nizhny Tagil VIII International exhibition of arms, military equipment and ammunition "RUSSIA EXPO ARMS-2011" and the upcoming presentation of the new Russian T-90MS reported that a package of export contracts is almost ready for signing for 300 T-90 tanks worth about 1.5 billion $

    http://gurkhan.com/2011/09/03.html
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:33 am

    Hope they serve you well... Smile
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    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:41 am

    So Algerian T-90S tanks are like Indian Bhishma with Catherine TI sights and with the AC as well and it works well in desert ?

    How much temperature in the desert the T-90 tanks operate goes to ?

    Do you have a good link in English to read about Algeria T-90 induction and operation in its armed forces ?
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    Post  KRATOS1133 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:56 pm

    Austin wrote:So Algerian T-90S tanks are like Indian Bhishma
    The T-90SA has a different air conditioning system and cooling equipment + French-made communications + German transmission gearbox + Swedish infared and radar Camouflage

    T-90 Main Battle Tank - Page 13 806859MAT11T90SA

    T-90 Main Battle Tank - Page 13 1-2

    Austin wrote:How much temperature in the desert the T-90 tanks operate goes to ?
    Near the Libyan border the temperature can go up to 55°C

    T-90 Main Battle Tank - Page 13 Screenshot-02_01_201212_42_31

    T-90 Main Battle Tank - Page 13 1-3

    Austin wrote:Do you have a good link in English to read about Algeria T-90 induction and operation in its armed forces ?

    Unfortunately, i don't

    GarryB wrote:Hope they serve you well... Smile

    During maneuvers an Algerian instructor broke the AT-11 record by hitting a target from 5200m



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    Austin

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    Post  Austin on Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:02 pm

    KRATOS1133 wrote:The T-90SA has a different air conditioning system and cooling equipment + French-made communications + German transmission gearbox + Swedish infared and radar Camouflage

    WoW the changes are just too many compared to bhishma.

    So Air Condition is from which manufacturer ?
    Do they use French Catherine TI ?
    German transmission thats surprising why so the Russians one are not so good ?


    Near the Libyan border the temperature can go up to 55°C

    Similar to Thar Desert in india.


    During maneuvers an Algerian instructor broke the AT-11 record by hitting a target from 5200m

    Using which ammo from tank any idea ?
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:54 pm

    During maneuvers an Algerian instructor broke the AT-11 record by hitting a target from 5200m

    Very impressive. Hopefully with sales of the weapon and domestic spending on military stuff they can further improve its performance. Smile

    German transmission thats surprising why so the Russians one are not so good ?

    Russian transmissions are for 840hp engine. Along with new engines they need to develop new transmissions, which takes time.

    The new T-90AM/MS will have new transmissions that are likely to be Russian along with the new more powerful engine.

    They will likely be working on a new transmission for the Armata familys engine, which as you know has a variable rating of 1,200 through to 2,400hp.

    On the eve of the Nizhny Tagil VIII International exhibition of arms, military equipment and ammunition "RUSSIA EXPO ARMS-2011" and the upcoming presentation of the new Russian T-90MS reported that a package of export contracts is almost ready for signing for 300 T-90 tanks worth about 1.5 billion $

    1.5 billion divided by 300 is about $5 million per tank, but it may include spare engines and gun barrels and of course ammo so the actual price per tank could be lower.

    In fact the order might include other stuff not seen on the T-90MS like Nakidka, and possibly even an APS... just because the Russian military seem to have rejected ARENA and DRODZ-2 doesn't mean export clients can't have it.

    Personally I think even if ARENA only stops 50% of RPGs fired at the tank it will be worth it. The cost in munitions will be reflected in savings in repairs and safety of the crew.

    Plus the fact that it can be manually activated to target enemy troops near the vehicle where the main armament can't reach is another bonus too.
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    Post  Pugnax on Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:11 am

    Please address the turret rotatation speed issue.Tracking and gunlaying is everyting.....oplat and their t-55 upgrade is 40 degress per second why is T-90 only 24 when leo 2 is 49 and Ambrams a2 42?Old Soviet T-72 was only 16,shameful...T-90 even worse because the Ukrainians can make a 60 year old tank spank the T-90.
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    Post  Pugnax on Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:24 am

    Guess it goes back to ..bigger stronger,more more inside..armour you wish could have 40 yrs away.Sorry West versus "West,notice small e" ,you will be spanked hard.I used to believe in Soviet armour doctrine.Its not worthy ,neither is current doctrine
    .
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:05 am

    Please address the turret rotatation speed issue.

    I rather doubt UVZ engineers come here for their design ideas.

    The Russian Army is the client, as is the Algerian Army and the Indian Army... if they have a problem with turret rotation speed I am sure they will mention it and UVZ will do something about it.

    you will be spanked hard.I used to believe in Soviet armour doctrine.Its not worthy ,neither is current doctrine

    Excellent, we have an expert on Soviet and new Russian doctrine.

    Please give us an outline of Soviet Armour doctrine with a comparison with the NATO equivalent of the time, and then tell us how the current Russian doctrine has changed and where its weaknesses are compared with current NATO armour doctrine.

    The Amusing thing is that NATO Armour doctrine is largely based on what the Nazis did in their retreat from the Soviet Union... it was basically a constant retreat from defendible position to defendible position with rear action ambushes to inflict casualties on the chasing forces, and of course a scorched earth policy of leaving nothing of use to the enemy.
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    Post  Mindstorm on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:08 am

    Pugnax wrote:Guess it goes back to ..bigger stronger,more more inside..armour you wish could have 40 yrs away.Sorry West versus "West,notice small e" ,you will be spanked hard.I used to believe in Soviet armour doctrine.Its not worthy ,neither is current doctrine
    .


    Sorry, but i don't understand your point. Care to elaborate, please ?
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    Post  runaway on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:46 pm

    Pugnax wrote:Please address the turret rotatation speed issue.Tracking and gunlaying is everyting.....oplat and their t-55 upgrade is 40 degress per second why is T-90 only 24 when leo 2 is 49 and Ambrams a2 42?Old Soviet T-72 was only 16,shameful...T-90 even worse because the Ukrainians can make a 60 year old tank spank the T-90.

    Where have you got these figures? i have these:

    I found information in russian sources than T-72, T-80 and T-90 have the same weapon stabilizer - 2E42-4 "Jasmin". Tower rotates 180 degrees in less than 5 seconds (the speed of rotation of the turret on the hull up to 40 deg / sec)

    And these..

    The turrets of older former Soviet Union tanks rotate much slower than those on US and NATO tanks. It takes more than 21 seconds for T-70-series tank turrets to rotate through a full 360°.

    The T-90-series tank turrets can rotate a full 360° in just 6 seconds, which is as fast as the US M1 Abrams and M2 BFV.

    And here are the sources


    Sources:
    FM 3-23.30: Grenades and Pyrotechnic Signals.
    FM 17-98: Scout Platoon.
    FM 23-34: TOW Weapon Systems.
    GTA 17-2-8: Armored Vehicle Recognition, February 1977.
    IN0534: Vehicle Recognition (Threat Armor), Edition D.
    OPFOR Worldwide Equipment Guide, 2001.
    Finnish Defence Forces website.
    Multi-National Force-Iraq, Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) website.
    NATO JFC Naples website.
    Polish Land Forces website.
    Serbian Armed Forces (SAF) website.
    U.S. DoD Defenselink website.

    So, i think you are mislead, because i havent found your figures anywhere...

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:37 am

    Ummm... it is a tank!

    If the gunner needs to turn the turret faster the commander can simply order the driver to use the tracks to turn the whole tank on the spot to follow a target... or at least catch up to it.

    The Tiger tank actually had to stop to fire, otherwise it damaged its own turret ring... that would be much more of a handicap than not being able to track high speed aircraft.

    Actually I remember seeing a video of a T-90MS turning its turret 360 degrees in about 5 seconds...

    Here it is:

    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2011/10/t-90ms-again.html

    At the top of the page in the first 20 seconds of the video you see the turret rotate one way a full 360 degrees and then back around the other way in about 10 seconds.
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:10 am

    Pugnax wrote:Please address the turret rotatation speed issue.Tracking and gunlaying is everyting.....oplat and their t-55 upgrade is 40 degress per second why is T-90 only 24 when leo 2 is 49 and Ambrams a2 42?Old Soviet T-72 was only 16,shameful...T-90 even worse because the Ukrainians can make a 60 year old tank spank the T-90.
    I smell an ignorant troll, but whatever.
    Have you seen the T-90MS video? The Turret rotation is very fast.

    And no, the Ukranians can't make the T-55 spank the T-90.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:46 pm

    And no, the Ukranians can't make the T-55 spank the T-90.

    Well yes and no.

    You could make it a tank as good as a T-90... all you have to do is replace the turret and the hull. Twisted Evil

    But then the Russians could make the T-55 spank a T-84 simply by removing the turret and modifying the vehicle to carry a couple of Kornet-EM guidance systems. On flat open terrain those T-84s would never even get close.
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    Post  Austin on Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:06 pm

    Is the hull of T-90 same as T-72 , as in if you replace the turret with the hull of T-72 will it give a T-90S ?
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:12 pm

    Austin wrote:Is the hull of T-90 same as T-72 , as in if you replace the turret with the hull of T-72 will it give a T-90S ?

    Similar in general, but there are many differences, in small details, certainly in armor level, suspension, etc.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:25 pm

    The hull of the T-90 had different (and better) armour and suspension, and wheels and engine.

    Of course having said that most of the bits on the T-90 can be fitted to the T-72, like wheels, suspension, transmission, and engine.

    At the end of the day the main difference is base armour levels.

    If you are thinking about an upgrade for Indias T-72s to near T-90 standard, then doing what Russia is currently doing and applying an upgrade to the T-72 is probably your best bet.

    It will work out cheaper than buying all new T-90s, yet at the same time will mean that parts for the upgraded T-72s will mostly be the same as parts for the T-90.

    The result is a fleet of tanks that have compatible spare parts and systems though obviously the upgraded T-72s are not as well protected as the T-90s, but in combat the difference might not be that important.
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:42 am

    To those who can read russian

    T-90MS

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/55312338@N04/6366482875/sizes/l/in/photostream/
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:22 am

    Even for those that can't... in the ammo area it seems that it carries 40 rounds of 125mm ammo, and 2,000 rounds of coaxial ammo, but the interesting thing is that it seems to have 800 rounds for the roof mounted remote operated machine gun...
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    Post  ali.a.r on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:01 pm

    What's the difference between the T-90AM and the T-90MS, if there are any differences of course.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:09 pm

    What's the difference between the T-90AM and the T-90MS, if there are any differences of course.

    No one could tell you.

    The T-90MS is the tank all the published details are about and there is quite a bit of it on this thread and elsewhere.

    The T-90AM on the other hand is a secret domestic version for the Russian military only that has not been shown publicly.

    BTW I seem to remember that the CFE agreement limits Russia to something like 6,000 tanks in its European zones with a maximum of 2,000 operationally deployed.

    Obviously the CFE agreement doesn't currently apply because the Russians refuse to be bound by a treaty all the other parties refuse to sign.

    The irony is that it was Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia and Abhkazia and somewhere else... in a former Soviet republic keeping the peace that the other CFE members objected to as soldiers stationed outside Russian territory.

    Absolutely hilarious... a few thousand Russian troops on real peacekeeping missions and they object to signing the CFE agreement... I see the US is withdrawing 7,000 soldiers from Europe... which means less than a 10% reduction in their troops deployed in foreign countries in Europe!!!

    So having signed the CFE treaty and adhering to its requirements and allowing inspections and handing over data every year the Russians simply decided they would abide by the CFE treaty when everyone else signed it and were in compliance too.

    This means that eventually they will be limited to about 6,000 tanks in European Russia... but likely not any time soon.
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    Post  ali.a.r on Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:54 am

    Thanks Garry. So in essence, the T-90MS is a slightly downgraded export version of the T-90AM?

    Besides, it's not okay for Russia to send a few thousand troops to a region that's right next door (as you pointed, out for peacekeeping purposes), but it's okay for the US to have tens of thousands of troops in Europe, which is thousands of kilometers from the US (and even then, it's either to counter a long-gone threat (USSR/Russia) or to counter a non-existent threat (like Iran))? dunno

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