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    T-90 Main Battle Tank

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    Austin

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:35 am

    MBT new generation of T-90AM declassify in September

    However, according to Lieutenant-General Yuri Kovalenko, who in his time for the development and introduction of the T-90 has received the state award, the Urals designers managed to address these shortcomings. "We have Uralians studies for removal of ammunition from the body of the driver's compartment. There is also a loading mechanism that can protect the crew from explosions of ammunition. Also, they have developed some of the things that eliminate explosive new tank "- said Kovalenko.

    "Now, for the protection and survivability, we are ahead of other countries - and the complex of active protection and explosive reactive armor T-90 definitely a lot better and safer for all Western models. In these matters, we are superior to potential enemy at times "- so praised T-90 general.

    "While lacking the command handling, to ensure that the controls can be quickly and efficiently allocate target and promptly set targets for destruction of enemy firepower. In this direction is actively working, if we achieve the results we will achieve the most advanced level in the world "- concluded Kovalenko.

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    So I am assuming it will have more power over existing T-90A engine by 130 hp.

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:22 am

    The report on T-90AM quoting the general says it will have an engine with more 130hp.

    So I am assuming it will have more power over existing T-90A engine by 130 hp.

    What is the power of existing T-90A engine in Russian service ?

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:Yes, the General said 130hp more than the 1,000 hp engine fitted to the T-90.They were working on a 1,200hp engine (V-99)so I guess a 1,130 hp engine is close enough.

    I dont think the current russian T-90S uses 1000 hp engine more like 840 or latter variants 950HP.

    Only the export variant of IA T-90 Bhishma uses 1000hp engine

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Russians don't use the T-90S, that is the export version of their T-90A... which also uses a 1,000hp engine.

    No ,the original T-90A uses 840hp engine and newer T-90A's uses 950hp.

    I just hope the MOD orders more T-90AM while they work on Armata project , ordering it would also help in export of Russian tank compete globally , plus the AM model seems to have every thing that would make it competitive for the next 10 years against western peers , the BMS should not be a problem.

    I wonder if AM has APU.
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    IronsightSniper

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  IronsightSniper on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:06 pm

    The T-90A has an APU. The T-90S doesn't.

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:11 pm

    IronsightSniper wrote:The T-90A has an APU. The T-90S doesn't.

    If what you say is true then its surprising Bhishma did not opt for an APU.
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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  IronsightSniper on Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:25 am

    The Bhishma opted out for many things :v
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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:33 am

    What is the name of this 950hp engine?

    The V-92 fitted to T-90A tanks is a 1,000hp tank engine.

    The T-90AM is hardly going to be fitted with an 840hp V84MS engine fitted to old T-72s when they are exporting 1,000hp V92S2 engines.

    They were working on the V-99 which was supposed to be a 1,200hp diesel engine, so if they say they increased engine performance by 130hp I personally think it will be a 1,130hp engine they are using.

    If you want to think that they are using a 1,070 hp or 1,080 hp engine that is completely up to you.

    BTW I looked up wiki and it describes the V-92 engine as being 950hp and gives Jedsite as the source.
    Don't know about you, but I had never heard of JEDsite before.

    Every other site I go to and the V-92 is a 1,000hp engine...

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:11 am

    IronsightSniper wrote:The Bhishma opted out for many things :v

    Its a pity , we ordered 1600 T-90 can you imagine those figures it is substantially more then any country or even Russia has it.

    I am just hoping they move to T-90AM as it would be logical to go for an improved variant considering the big numbers.

    I think T-90AM would be the best bet considering it eliminates most of its weakness and improves on most of its strength.

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:30 am

    GarryB wrote:What is the name of this 950hp engine?

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-294.html

    4
    ) T-90 later series, T-90A, T-90S - V-shaped 12-cylinder 4-stroke multi-fuel diesel V-92S2 turbo (upgraded B-84, different setting turbokonagnetatelya and improved design) production by CTZ (Chelyabinsk).
    Power - up to 1000 liters. с. with at 2000 rpm (950 hp - In-92)
    Dimensions - 1458 x 895 x 960 mm
    Weight - 1020 kg
    Working volume - 39 L
    Specific fuel consumption - 170 g / hp. в час per hour
    Coefficient of adaptability - 1.25
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    GarryB

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:05 pm

    I see your blog site and raise you the makers of the tank:

    http://uvz.ru/product/70/3

    Scroll down to the section on the engine and it says:

    Тип двигателя В-92С2 (дизель)
    Максимальная мощность, кВт (л.с.) 736(1000)
    The (1000) is the horse power rating. 736Kw of power.

    Its a pity , we ordered 1600 T-90 can you imagine those figures it is substantially more then any country or even Russia has it.

    It is probably because the T-90 is your numbers tank that they didn't spend money on all the extras. They didn't buy Shtora either did they?

    I am just hoping they move to T-90AM as it would be logical to go for an improved variant considering the big numbers.

    The Russian Army will likely buy it because there is no current alternative.
    The Indian Army is rather unlikely to buy it because it costs twice as much as the tanks they have bought so far.

    I think T-90AM would be the best bet considering it eliminates most of its weakness and improves on most of its strength.

    If the Russian Army orders it in enough numbers the price might be reduced and the Indian Army might consider adopting some of the features like the enlarged turret and bustle autoloader.

    Would assume any exported model with T-90AM upgrades will be called T-90SM.

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:I see your blog site and raise you the makers of the tank:

    http://uvz.ru/product/70/3

    The (1000) is the horse power rating. 736Kw of power.

    Believe the T-90C is an export model.

    It is probably because the T-90 is your numbers tank that they didn't spend money on all the extras. They didn't buy Shtora either did they?

    T-90Bishma is a frontline tank will be used in offensive formation , even Arjun is put in defensive role.

    They didnt buy Shotra or APS becuase they wanted to go for global tender on those system.

    The Russian Army will likely buy it because there is no current alternative.
    The Indian Army is rather unlikely to buy it because it costs twice as much as the tanks they have bought so far.

    Indian Army keeps in upgrading tanks and goes for upgrade model , like they are upgrading the T-72 about 600 off them and going for Mk2 model of Arjun , they well might go for T-90AM considering its being lic built here.

    If the Russian Army orders it in enough numbers the price might be reduced and the Indian Army might consider adopting some of the features like the enlarged turret and bustle autoloader.

    Yes it would help , but tank warfare in India is mostly in Indo-Pak context , so as long as Pakistan Army does not qualitatively upgrade its tank , we might see less incentive to upgrade existing one if its already good to meet its match like in case of PA it is T-80UD , the existing T-90 will have a edge over it and so will Arjun.
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    GarryB

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:26 pm

    we might see less incentive to upgrade existing one if its already good
    to meet its match like in case of PA it is T-80UD , the existing T-90
    will have a edge over it and so will Arjun.

    I would think the turret bustle upgrade would be worth it alone for the improved crew safety of not having loose ammo in the crew compartment.

    Believe the T-90C is an export model.

    Look at the engine designation... Тип двигателя
    В-92С2 (дизель)

    V-92S2.

    Are you suggesting there are two V-92S2 engines in production in Russia... one for Export T-90S tanks with 1,000 hp, and one for domestic T-90A tanks with 950 hp that are both called V-92S2?

    Or perhaps that blog is wrong.

    Power - up to 1000 liters. с. with at 2000 rpm (950 hp - In-92)

    What does the In-92 mean?

    Does it mean that in 1992 the V-92 had a rating of 950 hp... the V-92S2 is the second improvement and has 1,000hp?

    This would suggest that the current rating is 1,000hp and that increasing its performance by 130hp to 1,130hp when they were aiming for 1,200 makes sense. A 1,130hp engine is close enough to 1,200 hp to not bother further development to get the extra 70hp.
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    MBT new generation of T-90AM

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:35 pm

    http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product893.html

    and from the horses mouth...

    http://chtz-uraltrac.com/catalog/items/19.php



    • Military Parade"
    • Date:01-01-2000(MPD-No.001)
    • Size:4,818 Kb.
    • Words: 724



    V-92S2 NEW TANK DIESEL


    The Military-Technical Council of the Defense Ministry of the Russian
    Federation has adopted an armor development and upgrading program. It
    focuses on upholding the high standards of operational readiness of
    armored forces, radical modernization of equipment (latest specimens
    above all), creation of a new auspicious tank that would have an edge in
    performance over existing foreign vehicles, and the gradual rearming of
    army units with the new tank.
    These tasks cannot be resolved unless an up-to-date engine is developed,
    because the tank's effectiveness and mobility heavily rely on it.
    The core of the Russian Army's armored forces and of the armored forces
    of some foreign countries is the T-72 tank powered either by the 780hp
    V-46-6 or 840hp V-84 MS diesel engine. Some time ago, these engines were
    considered to have high performance characteristics.
    Presently, the development trends lean towards enhancing the specific
    power rating of tank engines in order to increase mobility of armored
    vehicles and units.
    A demand arose for a more powerful engine adapted specifically for the
    T-72 tanks being modernized. The Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant JSC, which
    has vast experience in designing and manufacturing diesel engines, took
    on this project and in 1999 a new 1,000hp engine, designated V-92S2, was
    created.
    The new engine has already been put through all types of
    tests.
    In June - July 1999, installed in the T-90S tank, this engine underwent
    successful precontractory assessment tests in India. The tests were
    carried out in arduous desert conditions, where the dust content in the
    air was high and temperature rose up to +47 oC. The engine demonstrated
    high reliability and good traction qualities.
    Development work on more powerful auspicious engines is currently
    underway at the plant. It is worth mentioning that for the T-72 tank
    modernization, the V-92S2 diesel engine is unrivaled. To install it,
    minimum modification of the vehicle's engine compartment and minimal
    funding are required.

    source: http://dlib.eastview.com/browse/doc/167893


    Last edited by George1 on Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:30 pm; edited 4 times in total

    Austin

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:59 am

    Deputy General Director of JSC Scientific Production Corporation Uralvagonzavod Vyacheslav Khalitov

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:07 am

    Some excerpts from above interview

    What are the priorities in the development of tanks in the near future see the designers of the Ural Tank Forge?

    In our country, when you create a military technology has become a priority for construction of an integrated family of not only military vehicles, but also the engineering, logistics based on a standardized chassis. The implementation of this principle allows us to solve a set of interrelated issues.

    Under modern conditions of warfare is particularly acute problem of providing reliable and efficient administration, the interaction of tank and combined arms units. It lies in the contradiction between the speed of the basic management processes directly in the tank and in subdivisions.

    Moreover, in modern combat sharply rising short duration of action in a cascade of increasing the flow of incoming information, the need for processing and decision-making by commanders of all parts of the extremely limited time. Therefore, in future designs of the samples tank equipment necessary to implement some new ideas.

    On the one hand, we must raise to a qualitatively new level of traditional properties of armored vehicles: the firepower, mobility, security, and on the other hand, comes to the fore the need for its integration into the automated control system for tactical level. The solution to this problem can only be achieved comprehensive automation of management processes as a separate tank, and a division as a whole.

    Today in the development of main battle tanks, we identify four major trends. Первая: масса танков прекратила расти. First: a lot of tanks had ceased to grow. All future projects, except for upgraded Israeli tanks Merkava created for specific theaters of war are the total mass in the range of 60 tons. We strive to fit into 50 tons.

    The following trends have noted a slowdown firepower of tanks by increasing the caliber of the gun. For the next 20 years, the limit is seen the caliber of 140 mm, and the tanks will be mostly completed 120-125-mm guns. Growth firepower go the way of creating high-power ammunition.

    - There is much talk about the T-90AM, which the media called a tank of new generation.Tell us about it.

    -They improved on the traditional areas: upgrading of existing samples at their overhaul, creating and developing the production of promising designs.

    For example, set up as an object of T-90 tank. It implements the idea of ​​designers and layout decisions. He goes into production, they equip the Armed Forces. In the future creation of new technology, there are design and technical solutions that can significantly improve the combat characteristics of the machine set up, and begins the process of modernization. The main thing that the tank had a capacity of modernization, that is, the conditions for setting innovations.

    T-90 tank has such potential. Internal volume of the machine can produce significant change of its various components such as engine, fire control, armament and other aggregates, which greatly increase the combat capabilities. All this made it possible not only to complete the modernization of the tank in accordance with the requirements of foreign customers, but also to make three upgrades for the national army. By the way, the German tank Leopard 1 was seven modernizations, upgrades seventh place and a variant of Leopard 2A7.
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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:20 am

    The following trends have noted a slowdown firepower of tanks by
    increasing the caliber of the gun. For the next 20 years, the limit is
    seen the caliber of 140 mm, and the tanks will be mostly completed
    120-125-mm guns.  Growth firepower go the way of creating high-power
    ammunition.

    So the makers of tanks in Russia are saying the future trend for Russian tanks is in creating more powerful ammunition for their 125mm guns????

    But we know they have nothing newer than the BM-42M created in the late 1990s....   Rolling Eyes  Twisted Evil

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:48 am

    GarryB wrote:So the makers of tanks in Russia are saying the future trend for Russian tanks is in creating more powerful ammunition for their 125mm guns????

    I have the butt feeling that the new tank under development will start with 125 mm gun with powerful ammunition to take care of current threats and in the future they would make minor adjustment to the chassis and would upgrade the gun to 140 mm to meet future threats.

    The current chassis designed in a way that it would take care of future growth potential in upgrading the gun from 125 mm to 140 mm without the need to design the chasis from scratch , they also have mentioned a tank for 50 ton category.
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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:33 am

    I think you mean a gut feeling.

    I also think that they mention the 140mm calibre because they do not what to reveal info about the 15xmm gun they have developed that may have been rejected because it reduces ammo supply for the vehicle.

    I think they will wait and see whether NATO goes for lighter tanks or if they continue with heavy armour... if they don't talk about their new bigger gun and NATO goes for lighter vehicle designs then they might be able to keep their current calibre which will save them an enormous amount of money and increase the available on board ammo reserve.

    The advantage of the larger calibre is obviously that more energy can be pushed down the tube for more penetration and better range and the larger diameter means larger more capable HEAT rounds, and tube launched missiles can be far more capable and of course the possibility of tube launched UAVs starts to enter the realm of possibility.

    The Smerch has a rocket launched UAV of 300mm calibre that can operate 90-120km away from the battery for about 40 minutes, obviously a tank launched system would not need to operate as far or for as long.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the T-90AM has moved into the 50 ton class as it will have a larger turret and ARENA adds weight too plus of course the turret bustle autoloader will add extra weight, though that is good weight as it counter balances the weight of the main gun so that will actually improve the balance of stress on the turret ring.

    I suspect the Armada chassis that replaces the T-90AM may have the propulsion at the front of the hull and have the turret at the rear with a very long very shallow sloped front hull armour to maximise protection from the front. I would think if they ever change to a larger calibre that an external gun with a larger turret ring would make the transition relatively straight forward.

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:39 am

    Oh yes I mean gut , though they sound so similar a strong gut means a lighter butt Laughing

    Yes he did mentioned engine on front and thats a very distinct possibility , the T-90AM would be in 50 T class for sure , 50 T class would be any where between 51 to 59 Ton and a 40 T would be 41 to 49 T and I doubt they would exceed beyond 49 T with all the changes considering Bhishma is 46 T
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    T-90 MBT: News

    Post  Andy_Wiz on Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:29 pm

    There is 0 information from the MoD that it is even interested in T-90AM.
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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:07 am

    There is 0 information from the MoD that it is even interested in
    T-90AM.

    So the MOD stance is that the T-90A is crap because of all the problems it listed... weak to top attack, likely to explode when penetrated because main gun ammo is stored in crew compartment, uses levers to drive with manual gears like a T-34... and now that all those problems and more have been addressed in the T-90AM they show no interest in it?

    Perhaps UVZ should just build trains... I am sure they wouldn't get all this Sht from the customers they sell trains to.

    The point is that if they want to meet their goal of 70% new stuff by 2020 they will be pushing Sht up hill if that doesn't include armour.

    Their plans as far as I can tell aim for about 1,500 T-90 or up to date tanks, with a reserve of anywhere between 4,500 and about 6,000 tanks of similar design.

    To get 70% of those to be new... well they simply can't do it unless they start building new vehicles soon and upgrading vehicles in storage.

    They are talking about new tanks in 2015 or so based on new technology with electric drive etc, but until they are ready the question becomes do you start producing T-90AMs now and eventually make 4,500 of them so it is the second tank in the deployed and in storage setup, or do you p!ss around talking sht about T-34s and about how wonderful and incredibly cheap Leopards are for 5 years and then have upgraded T-72s and the new tank and skip the T-90s all together.

    The problem is that the T-72s upgraded are cheap and share most of their components with the T-90 which is great for an inventory of T-90s and T-72s, but this new tank will be different so the commonality advantage goes away.

    It seems the cheapest option is to do nothing till the new tanks are ready in 5 years time and then just make expensive but capable and cheaper but still useful versions of the new tank to replace everything.

    The problem with that solution means that UVZ gets very little actual work for the next 5 years which will make reactivating them to produce the 6,000-7,000 new tanks they will need to build pretty difficult, and of course production capacity of that level is expensive to keep available with no orders... not to mention that orders in other areas like licence production of foreign and domestic small armoured vehicles and development and production of other armoured types that wont take 5 years to develop will mean that skilled workers will leave for jobs where they are actually building stuff rather than twiddling their thumbs.

    Personally I think the only solution is to introduce the T-90AM as the new production standard T-90 and for orders of 100-200 new tanks a year for the next 5 years will create a reserve force of T-90s, which in addition to proper overhauls of existing T-90s to T-90AM standard and of course the upgrade of T-72s to the standard created for them will generate income in UVZ and allow more technologies to be bought and tested and developed.
    When the new tank starts production then the upgraded T-72s in the best condition can be gifted to allies low on funds that could use them like Cuba or Vietnam or whoever and they can be replaced with the cheaper model of the new tank.

    The new tanks design should be modular with perhaps a cheap turret and an expensive turret... the cheap turret is fitted for but not with expensive stuff and has cheaper domestic products fitted as long as they can do the job. The expensive turret could have licence produced domestic stuff and state of the art domestic stuff fitted.

    All will have thermal sights and proper communications systems and battle management systems etc but there are 5 years between now and when the new tanks are ready which should be plenty of time to determine what features of each system is important and what should just be an optional extra... a nice to have feature that makes things easier but the tank could get by without it sort of thing.

    Of course if they want capable and high tech then the Russian military just has to get used to the fact that high tech costs money and their new tanks and planes will never be cheap again.

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:45 am

    I am of the opinion MOD will buy the T-90AM due to industry pressure ,export prospects and the fact that they tried to address issue with T-90AM tank and came with an excellent solution.

    I dont think the tank manufacturer are just developing the T-90AM and Armata/Boomerang because they have nothing better to do in life and are slushed with money.

    All are state funded program and would be ordered by state.

    With the recent criticism of T-90 ( though most were just wrong ) the prospects of T-90AM buy in good numbers is much better.
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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:21 pm

    Do the production line for T-90AM need retooling from T-90 production line? Maybe here could also be the answer why they didn't buy new tanks this year. If they buy new machinery, than MoD will for sure buy new tanks. No one is buying new production lines, which will never work and pay money back.

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    Re: T-90 Main Battle Tank

    Post  Austin on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:28 pm

    Why would you need retooling for an upgrade version of existing tank , its not a radical new tank like T-95 , so existing factories can build with with manufacturing improvements.

    T-90AM was not ready and it was on trials , it just completed state trials , so ordering it was not an option , neeedless to say they desperately do not need a new tank right now hence they could afford to cancel T-95.

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