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    Russia's New ABM Systems

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    kvs

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  kvs on Sat May 07, 2016 6:01 pm

    max steel wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:

    200 km maximum altited means minimum 2000 m/sec velocity.(without considering the air friction)

    However this means that at 100km the rocket has only 600 m/sec, insufficient to intercept anything as fast as an ICBM,even with nuclear warhead.

    S-500 missile will travel at 7 km/s. Is it enough to trget icbms ? because re-entry vehicle travel at 8-9 km/sec. dunno

    There are intercept windows. The size of these windows increases with the speed of the interceptor. With a 7 km/s exo-atmospheric
    interceptor any existing ICBM warhead is accessible. Of course the interceptor has to be launched early enough but that is not an issue since
    the warheads are tracked over very large distances and not just when they are raining overhead.

    I doubt that the S-500 will be designed around endo-atmospheric interception. This is the most difficult ABM task since the incoming warhead
    is at its maximum velocity and the time window before hitting the target is on the order of one minute. Exo-atmospheric or mid-course interception
    is the only viable option if boost phase interception is not possible.

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat May 07, 2016 6:59 pm

    max steel wrote:
    Singular_trafo wrote:

    200 km maximum altited means minimum 2000 m/sec velocity.(without considering the air friction)

    However this means that at 100km the rocket has only 600 m/sec, insufficient to intercept anything as fast as an ICBM,even with nuclear warhead.

    S-500 missile will travel at 7 km/s. Is it enough to trget icbms ? because re-entry vehicle travel at 8-9 km/sec. dunno

    Low Earth Orbit (LEO) velocity is 7.8 km/sec. At this, or above this speed we are not talking about ballsitic missile, but a satelite.


    So the reentry speed of a warhead can't be 7.8km/sec.The delta V generated by the rocekt engine can be as big, but few km/sec lost due to air friction.

    I seriously doubt that the interceptor rockrt can reach 6km/sec speed.
    Solid propelant can generate 2km/sec exhaust speed, so to reach 4 km/sec it need 1:7 empty mass:full mass ratio, to reach 6 km/sec it need 1:20 ratio.(maybe 2.3 km/sec,but dueto the small size I doubt it)

    The rocket few metric tons, so I can't see enouth space for theese kind of values.


    Additionaly, the decoys will trash the screen of the radar above 100 km.
    The elbrus PC can't dierentiate the decoys from the warheads outside of the atmosphere.
    under 100 km, due to the air friction the software can diferentiate the warhead(s).





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    Viktor

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    S-500 parametrs

    Post  Viktor on Tue May 10, 2016 2:17 pm

    Singular_trafo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup

    S-500:

    - 200+km in height
    - 600+km in distance
    - 10 targets at the same time
    - aerodynamic targets and ballistic targets
    - high mobility


    S-350:

    - 30km in height
    - 120km in distance
    - 16 targets at the same time with 32 missiles


    Russia's Deadly S-500 Air-Defense System: Ready for War at 660,000 Feet


    These parameters doesn't make sense.

    The main radar of the S-wathever is capable to see a zepelin sized target from 600km with a minimum altitude of 10-20 km.
    From the other side it is extremly hard to intercept a ballistic missile above 100km.


    so the most probable is these parameters are the theoretical maximu range , so it can go up 200 km, but at that point the interceptor will have 0 kinetic energy, and for 600 km it can be used maximum as a ballistic missile.


    I think you mixed something wrong.

    Shooting down the 7km/s target reguires interceptor missile which can be in time at the calculated interception point and optimaly you will want to have as smallerst missile as possible

    and smallest radar as possible because you will want to have as highest tactical and strategic mobility.

    S-500 system radar set will have sufficient range in combo with its missiles of unknown speed to shoot down 10 targets symultaneously at 7km/sec tagets with 9X% probability.

    When you read that some S_xx system can shoot down target flying xx m/s at xxkm distance it allways refers to some 85-100 hit probability.

    It also means that hit can occure in even longeer ranges but with smaller probability.

    Speculative ranges of S-500 radar sets as of now go as far as 2000km still S-500 will be integrated within Russian EW radar sets meaning its vision will entagle the globe and all

    calculations will S-500 receive from heigher command post ultimately DON-2N. ... Very Happy

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  mack8 on Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:03 am

    S-500 official model? From Djoker:
    http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2801467&postcount=44


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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  rambo54 on Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:15 am

    mack8 wrote:S-500 official model? From Djoker:
    http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2801467&postcount=44


    Well that goes along with the graph which its all over the net since nearly two years


    Obviously S-500 is a derivate of the S-300V System (more Antey than Almaz :-) )

    I have learned that the other graph published in a Almaz calender a couple of month ago is obviously the ASAT System Nudol
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    kvs

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  kvs on Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:34 pm

    The S-500 will not have just a two tube configuration. It will have the four tube configuration as well for anti-aircraft task. The two
    tubes must be for the ABM variant. Seems like the missile will be a downsized (but not reduced performance) A-135. An updated A-135
    could easily have half the mass of the original (as indicated by the payload to weight ratio for recent Russian ICBMs which imply a doubling
    of solid rocket fuel performance). This would fit in these launch tubes.

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:46 pm

    kvs wrote:The S-500 will not have just a two tube configuration. It will have the four tube configuration as well for anti-aircraft task. The two
    tubes must be for the ABM variant. Seems like the missile will be a downsized (but not reduced performance) A-135. An updated A-135
    could easily have half the mass of the original (as indicated by the payload to weight ratio for recent Russian ICBMs which imply a doubling
    of solid rocket fuel performance). This would fit in these launch tubes.

    by the drawings ttha canister of the dual tube s-500 not longer than 10.4 meter, by wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/53T6 the interceptor of the A-35 is 12 meters, so no chance to see the same speed liht the 53T6 with the reocket hiding in that canister.

    Maybe they cut back the speed of the interceptor to 2-2,5 km/sec, and compensating it with higher nuclear yield and/or with higher computer capacity.

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:52 am

    51T6 (of A-135) is about 19m !
    I don't think that they will fit in this canister - even in a downsized version. Moreover 51T6 could be the basis for the long range variant of A-235.
    My guess is that S-500 is very similiar to 9M82/9M83 which was always the more capable system than 48N6
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  Project Canada on Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:05 am


    I hope they will use Russian made Transporter erector launcher for both S-500 and Nudol
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:23 am

    Project Canada wrote:
    I hope they will use Russian made Transporter erector launcher for both S-500 and Nudol

    Me too, I hope they do not bother with appeasing Lukashenko.
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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:35 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:
    I hope they will use Russian made Transporter erector launcher for both S-500 and Nudol

    Me too, I hope they do not bother with appeasing Lukashenko.

    Kamaz Platform-O:













    http://twower.livejournal.com/1802827.html
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    kvs

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:55 pm

    rambo54 wrote:51T6 (of A-135) is about 19m !
    I don't think that they will fit in this canister - even in a downsized version. Moreover 51T6 could be the basis for the long range variant of A-235.
    My guess is that S-500 is very similiar to 9M82/9M83 which was always the more capable system than 48N6

    Why do you "critics" assume that the dimensions of a 50% lighter A-135 update would be the same as the old one?
    That is not any sort of logical inference but some sort of knee jerk nonsense. The volume and dimensions of the
    new variant do not have to even conform to the 50% fuel weight scaling. The new solid rocket fuel does not have to
    have the same density as the old one and likely does not. Given the performance gain the new fuel is likely higher
    density.

    The A-235 is an update that is meant for silos. It has higher performance but is still a large missile. The "obsolete"
    A-135 could be updated for mobile deployment.

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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  rambo54 on Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:43 am

    kvs wrote:
    rambo54 wrote:51T6 (of A-135) is about 19m !
    I don't think that they will fit in this canister - even in a downsized version. Moreover 51T6 could be the basis for the long range variant of A-235.
    My guess is that S-500 is very similiar to 9M82/9M83 which was always the more capable system than 48N6

    Why do you "critics" assume that the dimensions of a 50% lighter A-135 update would be the same as the old one?
    That is not any sort of logical inference but some sort of knee jerk nonsense.    The volume and dimensions of the
    new variant do not have to even conform to the 50% fuel weight scaling.   The new solid rocket fuel does not have to
    have the same density as the old one and likely does not.  Given the performance gain the new fuel is likely higher
    density.  

    The A-235 is an update that is meant for silos.  It has higher performance but is still a large missile.    The "obsolete"
    A-135 could be updated for mobile deployment.

    ok let's talk about nonsense:

    A-235: since more than a decade there is twaddling about a new long range interceptor on basis of the 51T6. Up to now there is no evidence that this missile have been ever tested (Sary Shagan site 52 is closed since 2002).
    There is no evidence that the two long range silo sites around Moscow are reactivated or currently under reconstruction some 11 years after their shoot down.
    A-135: Apart from the modernization of 53T6 and DON-2N there is no evidence that there will be a new long range component of that system ( I guess your indication of A-35 was not serious). Although there might be ambitions to do so but as far as I know there is no firm project which would come to a deployment within the next three years. And the disputed drawing from the Almaz Calender seems to be a different project, namely the ASAT Project "Nudol" recently tested at Plesetsk.

    So where is your source/evidence to come up with a speculation that the vehicle in this drawing is housing a new long range ABM?
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    Viktor

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    Russian New ABM Systems

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:02 am

    Guys, I think that what was tested was S-500 missile system  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing (not the A-135/225)

    Experts: tested missile rocket will allow to fend off the threat from the United States

    "C-500 will allow for interception purposes, including enemy warheads in near space and implement the concept of direct kinetic interception, that is, the destruction of the attacking warheads direct hit missiles", - Korochenko, adding noted that S-500 serial production of air defense missile systems planned for the Nizhny Novgorod plant 70 Anniversary of Victory within the group of EKR "Almaz-Antey".

    President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems Konstantin Sivkov in turn, noted that the tested anti-missile missile is designed to cover the areas in accordance with the agreement on the limitation of anti-missile systems to the United States, but in non-compliance with the United States the terms of the contract, this complex may appear in other places, including marine carriers.

    "This event can be assessed only positively, because the test was successful. This missile defense system provides cover areas in accordance with the ABM Treaty, which was concluded with the United States. Russia this agreement does not violate, in contrast to the United States, and yet we consider occupancy of these complexes in the harmonized areas, but what will happen next - it depends on the situation ", - said Sivkov.

    The expert did not rule out that this complex defense system in the long term can be placed on sea carriers similar to the American system of "Aegis", but this is necessary to create the appropriate electronic equipment.

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    This is probably the first (moderest) sight of S-500 elements on an image of Kapustin Yar.

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:41 pm

    This is probably the first (moderest) sight of S-500 elements on an image of Kapustin Yar.
    First I thought it would be just another 5T58-2 missile transporter. But the gap between the truck cabin and the missile containers is much closer.
    I think this could be indeed 77P6 launcher vehicles. In my opinion the variant with the shorter missile container for the 40N6M. The variant with the even longer 77N6N canister would show an even smaller gap to the BAZ truck cabin.
    Well...time will tell


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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:25 am

    "Nudol", "Prometheus" and "Thor": Three defensive line

    Anti-missile umbrella over Russia will open in 2025


    On the creation of Russia's 2025 national layered missile defense system announced "Parliamentary newspaper" the chief designer of the warning system (EWS) Sergey Boev . It should include anti-missile systems to intercept long-range, anti-aircraft missile defense, missile defense and anti-missile systems near interception.

    Sergey Boev substantiated the need to create a layered missile defense system that would protect the entire country, a "direct threat" posed by the deployment in Romania and Poland ground facilities of European missile defense. "It is possible covert conversion of launchers for placement of medium-range ballistic missiles," - he said. Although no particular alterations and no required - launchers that host missile SM-3 are versatile and can be used to run a number of ballistic missiles, which are prohibited Treaty on intermediate and lower range. It is no accident in the United States recently held a debate about the correction of the treaty.

    The first train - distant. It is based on the implementation of the missile defense system modernization project in Moscow and the Central Industrial District A-135 "Amur" to A-235 "Nudol". These works should be completed by 2020. And then the same will be taken into service two new anti-missiles - short-range and long-range. Now they pass their test at the Sary-Shagan in Kazakhstan.

    When setting the A-135 on the alert system has two missiles: 53T6 and 51T6 neighbor intercept long-range interception. In 2006 began the dismantling of long-distance missiles. Left alone near. However, the name does not fully reflect the technical characteristics of the missile 53T6. Its interception range - 100 km, height - 30 km.

    However, the real possibility of intercepting short-range missiles is significantly higher. After the end of the general state tests missile defense system designer A-135 A.G.Basistov announced that the missile has a large inventory on all parameters relative to those entered in the documents on its certification. It is capable to hit ballistic targets at ranges of 2.5 times larger and at altitudes 3 times larger. It is, accordingly, 250 km and 90 km.

    The same can be said of the modified anti-missiles to intercept long-range. A number of reports from sources in the Defense Ministry and defense industry in its distance should reach 1,500 km, and the maximum interception altitude - 750 km. It is capable of destroying not only the IDB on the middle and end parts of the trajectory, but also the orbital spacecraft. In connection with the missile defense "Nudol" system informally called "fighter satellites."

    There are other significant differences. Older interceptors are basing mine. That is "dug into the earth," and can not be transferred. New can move on mobile launchers. This means that their deployment in the region of interest will not be a big problem. As the establishment of a rhythmic series production missiles and other elements of a missile defense system to intercept long-distance train will be deployed at all missile-dangerous directions. And it is given 5 years: in 2020 to intercede on alert missile defense system "Nudol" in Moscow, and the national, ie Global within the country, the missile defense system will be fully rolled out in 2025.

    Middle tier Protection provides S-500 "Prometheus". In fact, the two systems - air and missile defense, each of them quite autonomous. This is determined by the fact that the system has two distinct hardware pieces, including various radar AFAR, and two sets of missiles - for aerodynamic purposes, which include not only the aircraft, but also cruise missiles, and ballistic.


    Often used in the S-500 missiles borrowed from the S-400 "Triumph". Three missiles are specially designed for the "Prometheus." The most powerful of them - 40N6M - has a range of 600 km. This missile is three times higher than the US missile defense system THAAD land, which flies at 200 km. Another two missiles - 77N6 and 77N6-H-N1, developed CB "torch" to intercept ballistic targets, similar to that of a low intercept missile interceptors system A-135 "Cupid". They work with IDB and with separable warheads low radar visibility, which speed is 7 km / sec. Maximum missile speed - 3600 m / s. We THAAD missiles - 995 m / s.

    "Prometheus" characteristics are disclosed only partly. It is known that the range ballistic missiles detection is 2000 km, the combat unit with EPR 0.1 sq.m. - 1,300 km. In this case, the maximum error in determining the end point of the trajectory, ie the crash site of a ballistic missile, less than 15 km. Detection range of aerodynamic targets - 800 km.

    The essential difference between the S-500, and especially of A-135 and A-235 from American THAAD system primarily predetermined difference in speed missiles and the capacity detection and targeting. Russian system can deal with IDB, American - a ballistic missile short and medium range having a lower speed than IDB.

    And, finally, the defense short-range vehicles, which is usually defined as the length of the zone of 10-20 kilometers. Then DIC provides an opportunity army sufficiently wide choice of facilities and SAM ZRPK (rocket-gun).

    Effective means of combating missiles "air-ground", controlled and guided aerial bombs, anti-radar missiles and other new generation of high-precision weapons, tactical aircraft and military aircraft, cruise missiles, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles is a "Tor-M2". The complex has a high degree of automation of all processes. He not only finds and identifies the target to be destroyed, but also evaluates the traffic situation, automatically determines the most dangerous targets, produces auto tracking and records the time of entry into the zone of fire purposes. After launching missiles made their automatic guidance radio command to the target method.

    Rocket complex "Tor-2M" speeds up to 800 m / s and is able to maneuver with acceleration up to 30g. Maximum speed churn purposes - 750 m / s, and the overload - 12g. Zone defeats the purpose of range - from 100 m to 15000 m, the height - from 10 m to 10,000 m.


    ZRPK "Carapace-C2" began to come into force at the end of 2015. He is the fastest in the world anti-aircraft short-range zone complex. Response time - 4-6 seconds. 1.5 sec - range missile launches. The same amount is spent on the seizure of new goals.

    "Carapace" is able to destroy all kinds of aircraft and cruise missiles. In the first place it was created to deal with high-precision weapons, having the flight speed of up to 1000 m / s. Targets with ESR of 0.03 sq.m. to 0.06 sq.m. affects one missile with probability 0.7. The zone of responsibility of the complex - 15 km in altitude and 20 km of distance. Gun Mount - two twin 30 mm anti-aircraft caliber machine with a rate of 5,000 rounds per minute. The ammunition included 1,400 shells and 12 missiles ready to launch.

    In conclusion, it must be said about the warning system radar of a missile attack, which are an essential element of a national missile defense system. In this role are the high factory readiness "Voronezh" stations that have "range of vision" from 4500 km to 6000 km. This year with the commissioning of three stations Radio engineering troops became fully control the air space around the perimeter of the Russian borders to a depth of 6000 km. Total on duty are seven stations of various modifications - meter range, decimeter, and a high potential signal. Soon it expected commissioning station operating in the centimeter range, which possesses the highest resolution. In conjunction with the long-range detection is for the aggressor is more terrible than Goethe's "Faust."
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    Re: Russia's New ABM Systems

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:40 am

    Austin - that means in short

    A-235 Nudolj - operational by 2020 - mobile
    - 53T6 Gazzele (250km in range and 90km in altitude)
    - 51T6 Gorgon (1500km in range and 750km in altitude) - satellite killer

    S-500 Prometheus consisting of two different but integrated system (one within earth atmosphere and the one for space shooting) - it is mentioned that the missile speed is 3600m/s for shooting down 7000m/s targets.

    Russian NMD will be all mobile two echelon system with 5 missiles of different class. Voronez type radars are also capable of performing targeting meaning the

    crucial part the radar sets are already in place scanning 6000+km in all around.

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    anti-ballistic missile system

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:00 am

    Russia to deploy new national layered anti-ballistic missile system by 2025
    tps://www.armyrecognition.com/june_2017_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_to_deploy_anti-ballistic_missile_system_22706171_tass.html


    A national layered anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system will be deployed in Russia by 2025, Sergey Boev, chief designer of the missile attack warning system, reported. It has to include long-range exoatmospheric interceptor missile systems, air/space defense missile system and short-range endoatmospheric interceptor missile systems, online media outlet Free Press writes

    Boev justified the need to develop a layered ABM system by the threat posed by land-based Euro-ABM systems being deployed in Romania and Poland. "The launchers can be covertly converted to accommodate medium-range ballistic missiles," he said. The launchers, in which the SM-3 anti-missiles are housed, are universal and can be used to launch a number of ballistic missiles prohibited by the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. It is not mere chance that there have been recently debates in the United States on revising this treaty.

    The first echelon has to provide long-range intercepts. It is based on implementing a project to upgrade the A-135 Amur ABM system that covers Moscow and the Central Industrial Area to the A-235 Nudol level. These works should be completed by 2020. In the meantime, two new short- and long-range interceptor missiles will be adopted.

    When the A-135 was put on alert, the system had two missiles: 53T6 short-range endoatmospheric and 51T6 long-range exoatmospheric interceptor missiles. In 2006, the phasing-out of long-range missiles began. However, the name does not fully reflect the performance characteristics of the 53T6 missile. Its intercept range is 100 km and altitude is 30 km. Upon completion of the official tests, A. Basistov, general designer of the A-135 ABM system, announced that the missile had large margins for all its parameters with respect to those specified in the documents when it was certified.

    The same can be said also about the modified long-range interceptor missile. In a number of reports from sources at the defense department and in the defense industry, its range should reach 1500 km, while the maximum intercept altitude - 750 km. It is capable of destroying not only ICBMs in the mid-course and terminal phases of the trajectory, but orbital spacecraft as well. The new systems can move on mobile launchers.

    The middle echelon of ABM defense is provided by the S-500 SAM system. In fact, these are two systems, one for air defense and other for missile defense, each being quite autonomous. This stems from the fact that the system has two independent hardware parts, including different AESA radars, and two sets of missiles, for aerodynamic targets and for ballistic ones.

    Some of the missiles used in the S-500 have been borrowed from the S-400 Triumph SAM. Three missiles are being developed specifically for the S-500. Of these, the heaviest missile has a range of 600 km. This missile is superior to the missile used in the US THAAD land-based ABM system. Two more missiles, developed at the Fakel Design Bureau to intercept ballistic targets, are close in performance to the short-range interceptor missile of the A-135 Amur ABM system.

    The essential difference between the S-500 and the US THAAD system is predetermined primarily by the difference in the speeds of the interceptor missiles, as well as the capabilities of the target detection and missile guidance systems. The Russian systems are able to counter ICBMs, while the US one can engage only short- and medium-range ballistic missiles, which have a lower speed compared with ICBMs.

    In conclusion, it is necessary to say about the missile attack warning system’s radars, which are the critical element of the national ABM system. This role is played by Voronezh-type high factory readiness radars having a range of 4500 km to 6000 km. This year, with the commissioning of three radars, Russia’s radar troops began to fully control the air space along the perimeter of the Russian border to a depth of 6,000 km. A total of seven radars of different versions - VHF, UHF and ‘high-potential’ radars - are currently on alert. A centimeter-band radar offering the highest resolution is expected to be commissioned soon, online media outlet Free Press recalls.

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