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    Werewolf

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:33 am

    Compared to the so labbeled Dictatorship unter Putin you have an astonishing amount of blatant critics if you put on russian television, there are even nuts who say Putin is cloned 4 times and Putin can't do shit about this "news", after the fall of USSR it took only 6 month and already over 700 westerners with their "news networks" were established in Russia under yeltzin. Till this day the majority of russian television is payed by western countries not by russia.

    And the Patriot Act states you have no freedom, did you know Nazi Germany had a similiar law for Gestapo to arrest everyone they wanted without charge,trial or anything or anyone openly should allowed to know about who was arrested.
    Patriot Act can be used to jail every american citizen for nothing.
    You have no free speech like the video Fahrenheit 911 proofs, 1800 911 protesters put into a big warehouse by the police, surrounded with wired fences.
    So much about your free spech, you are only granted free speech as long you speek against those who the Pentagon dictates to be the enemies, never against its own never against its allies.

    You have less free speech than russia has.
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    GarryB

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:49 am

    Well it is certainly more free than it is in Russia today.

    Sad but true.

    Russia today is probably not freer than the US, but at least it is honest about the lack of real freedom.

    Freedom in the west is a punish vote you get every 4-8 years that you can use to try to remove someone from power.

    In the real world freedom is actually having so much money you don't have to work for the rest of your life if you don't want to.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:32 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:Today no country i the world is close to such level of economic freedom that USA had during XIX century. There was no income tax until 1910 or so, no concessions for resources etc. And it was the greatest period of American economy, with prosperity unrivaled elsewhere in the world. Then it gradually befggan to shift to an interventionist economy, first by creating The Federal Reserve and then during FDR's times (FDR also loved Stalin)

    Ah, the good old guilded age argument
    Educate yourself:http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gilded_Age

    FRD loved stalin? Apparently so much that he originally wanted to wait the soviet union get destroyed if germany got the complete upper hand.
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    TR1

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  TR1 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:44 pm

    Prosperity for whom?

    The captains of industry? yes, very prosperous for them.

    For average workers? The improvement in their work-conditions has been gargantuan.
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    GarryB

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:07 am

    For average workers? The improvement in their work-conditions has been gargantuan.

    To the point where all the work they used to get is now sent to China or Mexico because it is too expensive to pay westerners to do it.

    To have a consumer society you need lots of cheap products, the problem is that you need to pay your workers too much to allow them to be able to afford those throw away consumables so you have to outsource the production to other countries where labour is cheap and workers have no rights...

    For US democracy to work you need a slave class that will work for next to nothing... when illegal immigrants don't fit the bill you use Mexicans or Chinese.

    Nothing new... for a while the cheap crap came from Japan, then lots of other under developed countries.... most of which used that income to develop and evolve beyond the slave role... eventually it gets more and more expensive so the western companies up and leave to cheaper places.

    The real kicker is that places like communist china and indeed North Korea are ideal slave labour resources for the west to produce stuff incredibly cheaply with no worries about workers rights or unions.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:38 am

    TR1 wrote:Well it is certainly more free than it is in Russia today.

    Sad but true.

    Don't see any difference really, overall.

    In Russia the restrictions are more blatant. In America they are more subtle, or indoctrination performs the job instead - but the end result is the same.

    Putin though to his credit does worry about his popularity ratings a lot, he doesn't make unpopular moves.
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    TR1

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:55 am

    Let's compare two thing:

    Iraq War- HUGE anti-war protests in big American cities. Go on freely.
    Ukraine- some Russians gather to protest against it in Moscow, promptly arrested.

    Seriously, fuck our current government.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:54 am

    TR1 wrote:Let's compare two thing:

    Iraq War- HUGE anti-war protests in big American cities. Go on freely.
    Ukraine- some Russians gather to protest against it in Moscow, promptly arrested.

    Seriously, fuck our current government.

    Yep but that's actually what I mean

    In the US anti-war demos are permitted, but cynically ignored. In London back when I was living there, we had the biggest one of all in 2003. Over a million people, including many all over the country. 1/6th of the population of London at the time.

    And what?

    All these approval ratings, etc... they don't mean squat to Western political leaders. On the issues that they're determined to go through with, they go through with. Their ratings can be as low as 30%, 20% - they still carry right on. In France, by far the biggest protests it has experienced for decades was the outrage over the new law they instituted for gay marriage (in reality the protestors were more worried about giving lesbian couples artificial seminitation rights) or what was it. Hundreds of thousands marched in Paris. Result? Not a single compromise, dialogue, debate, nothing.

    Putin does what he wants too, but only if he knows the population will support him.
    He does stop to crash the anti-war demo on his way there though; just for the hell of it, old habits and so on.

    Honestly I'm not sure what is worse; crushing the anti-war protests off-hand, or letting them continue but simply pretending they don't exist.

    Another example; control of the TV media. What I mean about blatant vs. subtle. In Russia they are just owned by the state. In America, they are owned by oligarchs, who are affiliated to one of two political parties, and these channels are subordinated to the political elite of the country overall.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:17 pm

    TR1 wrote:Let's compare two thing:

    Iraq War- HUGE anti-war protests in big American cities. Go on freely.
    Ukraine- some Russians gather to protest against it in Moscow, promptly arrested.

    Seriously, fuck our current government.

    A) Due the constant western payments and organizing of "demonstrations" there is a good right to ban demonstrations especially when they don't critic valid points but same made up bullshit for western televisions like a suppossed russian demonstration against "ban of gays from russian streets" like they portrait the anti gay propaganda law. Telling people gays are now jailed and such bullshit.

    How many of this demonstrations in last 2 decades were major bullshit lead by NGO's and George Soros oligarchs.

    Demonstrations are ignored in the west, they are just there to give you a feeling that you have some kind of freedom while it's total bullocks. Just wasting time and demonstrations have never changed anything as long the government decides to ignore them anyway and grant "demo" right just as a ventile for the unhappy group.

    Russia should be much harsher on "demonstrations" as soon there is proof or solid indication that this is again a western made up bullshit, jail the westerners in the groups and ask them why the heck they are in russia demonstrating.
    Same as Anna Rosenfeld, or just Anna Rosa, a jewish ukrainian that was found among russian "demonstrants" paying them thousand or something rubbles to shout out against putin.

    Not everything is a demo and i personally don't believe this nonsense that every demo in russia is cleared by police.

    Austin

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:38 pm

    Hannibal your view on this ?

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:47 pm

    Austin wrote:Hannibal your view on this ?


    Tom Woods is a infamous discredited neo-confederate so it's hard to take him seriously.

    Austin

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:57 pm

    From what I have seen in his debate that even the optimistic agree that Economy is very bad in shape

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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:09 pm

    Austin wrote:From what I have seen in his debate that even the optimistic agree that Economy is very bad in shape



    Well obviously this guy knows much more than I know but generally I don't agree with his recipe. I think QE is absolutely necessary although is a dead end procedure which is gonna burst sometime. Actually I think that USA suffers from many thinks but at least not unemployment and not vise versa. I do agree with him that Japan is beyond insolvency. Actually this is where I expect the next crisis to happen but unlike him I will not give a timetable. It may take 2 years like he is saying it may take much more. But it will happen and I don't see how USA can solve her deficits. Especially the trade deficit which for me is much more important than the fiscal deficit.

    Austin

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:17 pm

    I think what he is stating is when QE end which is like 2015 and when real inflation grows then keeping bond wont be attractive and there will be mass selling of bonds that where the Fed will collapse.

    Though I am not an economist and dont understand many aspect of it but out of sheer understand what I think he is trying to say is the current economy is doing nothing much for the 99 % but all the money is being put to Stock Market for the top 1 % and is not generating any value for the real economy via QE ...... and its not sustainable .....basicly the Fed is keeping the bankers happy to make todays collapse move over to few more year with more dire consquences.

    This guy too says the same and he is not David Stockman

    This is no recovery, this is a bubble – and it will burst
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Hannibal your view on this ?

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:39 pm

    I think what he is stating is when QE end which is like 2015 and when real inflation grows then keeping bond wont be attractive and there will be mass selling of bonds that where the Fed will collapse.


    Not really. If you listen somewhere says that FED intents to keep the zero rates virtually forever. This is not new. Is a Japanese recipe.
    Japan central bank keep interest rates virtually negative for 2 decades now, only recently started creating inflation cause they could no more keep the interesting rates so low.
    The big question is whether FED will be FORCED to increase interest rates, increase inflation and increase unemployment.
    His bet is that (despite the dollar being still strong as he says) FED likely will brake this QE plan before this 2 year term end thus effectively ending the bubble creation.
    btw Dollar start showing signs of weakening lately but probably the Chinese will cleverly preserve the agony a little longer by devaluing their own currency accordingly.




    Though I am not an economist and dont understand many aspect of it but out of sheer understand what I think he is trying to say is the current economy is doing nothing much for the 99 % but all the money is being put to Stock Market for the top 1 % and is not generating any value for the real economy via QE ...... and its not sustainable .....basicly the Fed is keeping the bankers happy to make todays collapse move over to few more year with more dire consquences.


    This is common knowledge. Nobody denies this reality  lol1
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    nemrod

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    USA: This is A Major Road in St. Louis

    Post  nemrod on Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:34 pm

    This is only the begining of the incomming mega crisis.
    The US military budget cuts are only at the beginingn too.





    Other major cities in US are in worst conditions than St. Louis.
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    TR1

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:36 pm

    Have you seen Russian roads?

    Very Happy
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    nemrod

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  nemrod on Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:57 pm

    TR1 wrote:Have you seen Russian roads?

    Very Happy

    Good remarq!  Very Happy 

    However whos was invaded Iraq ? Afghanistan ? Where are the origin of troubles in Syria, Ukraine, Tibet, Myamar, Libya, Venezuela, Bolivia ? Who support Israel ? Who create Guantanamo concentration camp ? Who disrupt the election in Mexico ? etc....

    The great difference between Russia and USA, is Russia does not try to make troubles everywhere in the world because of its moribund's money.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:47 pm

    TR1 wrote:Have you seen Russian roads?

    Very Happy

    And what does that have to do with America's lack of critical funds for infrastructure? Fact of the matter is that America has a larger economy than Russia (America was prosperous in the 90's, while Russia was going through a depression), with a significantly larger budget (the largest economy, the largest budget), and yet we have the infrastructure of a 2nd world country, and in a rare but dangerous cases comparable to 3rd world countries!

    America has an infrastructure rating of "D+" according to the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), and the U.S. govt. would have to at least spend $3.6 trillion on infrastructure by 2020 for sustainability reasons:

    http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

    The best American infrastructure rating surprisingly going to train rail at a mediocre "C+", and the worst rating goes to levee's at a terrible rating of "D-", even after the tragic events of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans, due to the lack of modern levee infrastructure, there still isn't any movement to update America's levees!

    http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/home

    Bottom-line is that U.S. Congress can allocate trillions for defense, trillions for banker bailouts, so the "D+" grade is totally unacceptable.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:19 pm

    American infrastructure is underaverage, actually it is horrible.

    The absolute majority of american houses are made of plywood at best, some parts of US are very well known to be hit by catastrophes like hurricanes. Building houses entirely made of plywood which you can knock down with your fists only, are build in tornado areas, electric power lines are going above ground which will be knocked out several times within a decade instead of investing a little bit money to burry the powerlines in the ground like every european country has.

    People over there lose everything they have after a single tornado, it doesn't even have to be a big tornado even a small tornado will knock out entire streets without big problems.

    Just like the story of the 3 pigs and the wolf, the first builds his house made of straw, the second makes his house made of wood and the last one makes his house of bricks and at the end they end up in the brickhouse.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:23 am

    Werewolf wrote:American infrastructure is underaverage, actually it is horrible.

    The absolute majority of american houses are made of plywood at best, some parts of US are very well known to be hit by catastrophes like hurricanes. Building houses entirely made of plywood which you can knock down with your fists only, are build in tornado areas, electric power lines are going above ground which will be knocked out several times within a decade instead of investing a little bit money to burry the powerlines in the ground like every european country has.

    People over there lose everything they have after a single tornado, it doesn't even have to be a big tornado even a small tornado will knock out entire streets without big problems.

    Just like the story of the 3 pigs and the wolf, the first builds his house made of straw, the second makes his house made of wood and the last one makes his house of bricks and at the end they end up in the brickhouse.

    In the Caribbean their houses are built to withstand and survive hurricanes, all the concrete on a Caribbean home is reinforced with steel rebar, and all there windows have steel shutters attached to them.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:18 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    In the Caribbean their houses are built to withstand and survive hurricanes, all the concrete on a Caribbean home is reinforced with steel rebar, and all there windows have steel shutters attached to them.

    http://www.newsweek.com/aftermath-built-brick-house-110351

    Matching my comperision of pigs and the wolf this little article.

    It's a lesson understood by anyone who's read the story of the Three Little Pigs: the stronger you build a house, the less likely it is to blow away when a wolf--or a hurricane--starts huffing and puffing. So as builders begin reconstructing the homes destroyed by Katrina, they're taking steps to increase the odds that the new houses will survive future storms. Says engineer Tim Reinhold of the Institute for Business and Home Safety: "[Builders] need to be thinking about how you'd build this house if you were going to hold it upside down and shake it, to keep things from falling off."

    Before Katrina, neither Mississippi nor Louisiana had statewide building codes. Last fall Louisiana adopted one, modeled partly on practices used in Miami-Dade County, Fla., which requires more hurricane-protection measures than anywhere else in the United States. In Louisiana, framing carpenters now use metal clips to supplement the nails that hold roof frames to walls. Builders wrap the entire house in plywood, underneath the siding, instead of the foam insulation that some previously used as sheathing. On the roof, they're using more nails and gluing down the corners of shingles. To protect windows, builders are choosing between pricey impact-resistant glass or, more frequently, installing bolts on window frames and pre-cutting custom plywood shutters, which the new homeowner can fasten on when hurricane warnings are announced.

    The new building practices won't prevent flood damage, which caused more harm than Katrina's winds. Protecting homes from storm water requires rebuilding outside of flood plains, or at higher elevations (often on stilts). That remains controversial: last week the Biloxi City Council rejected the recommendation of the Federal Emergency Management Agency to expand the city's flood-plain map, and to increase the elevation for homes from 13 feet above likely flood levels up to 18 to 25 feet. "How would you like to tell your 80-year-old constituent that she was now going to have to climb up 18 feet of stairs ... to get in and out of her house?" says councilman Mike Fitzpatrick.

    The extra protection comes at a cost. New Orleans builder Randy Noel says the codes are adding about 8 percent to the expense of the homes he's building. A study by Louisiana State University, however, found that if Mississippi enacted a Miami-style building code, it could save $3.1 billion in damages in a future Category 3 hurricane. Says Noel: "It may be overkill, but if it makes the insurance guys happy and makes them want to cover us, it isn't that big a deal." The next time hurricane winds start huffing and puffing, new homeowners may be able to rest a little easier.

    I mean living in an area that is very likely to have tornadoes it would be wise to consider investing a little bit more money building a brickhouse for only a little bit more than a useless house where the door frame is the strongest part of house for 400.000 USD what is the average figure for most houses in the US which we can see so often destroyed after tornadoes. I mean this houses can be ripped apart by F2 tornadoes which are considered light and have a frequency of already 20% of 5 different catagories of tornadoes.

    Even that this are plywood houses a roof still weights several hundred kilograms and just because someone is stupid and doesn't want to spend little bit more money on a safer house it to bad that even such mild tornadoes can kill a lot of people which would have done little to a brickhouse.

    Of course you can not make a brickhouse 100% safe to all tornadoes but considering that F4 and F5 tornadoes have a frequency of only 1.1% for F4 and 0.1% for F5 tornadoes i think a brickhouse is quite good to safe money and more important lifes with a offerdable amount of money.

    Scale and frequency of tornadoes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujita_scale
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    nemrod

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  nemrod on Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:47 pm

    Werewolf wrote:American infrastructure is underaverage, actually it is horrible.

    America has not enough money to feed the military complex, but not enough for its citizens. And we were obliged to idolize this system who transfer the wealth from people, to the richests. If they don't find enough money in US, they will assault poor countries that could not defend themselves, in order to loot them.

    However, the game are over for this system.

    As Sa'iqa

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:08 pm

    So now write a dissertation describing how this "stealing" looks like and by what mechanisms it is achieved. So far you contradict yourself in the same sentence (poor countries by definition have nothing worth of stealing. Otherwise they would not be poor)
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    TR1

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    Re: US Economy Thread

    Post  TR1 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:28 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:So now write a dissertation describing how this "stealing" looks like and by what mechanisms it is achieved. So far you contradict yourself in the same sentence (poor countries by definition have nothing worth of stealing. Otherwise they would not be poor)

    Many poor countries are quite resource rich.

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