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    The legendary MiG-21

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: The legendary MiG-21

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:20 pm

    Not a bad figther, but pretty much F-5A/E material. Has nothing on F-16C past Block 25/30.





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    starman

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    Re: The legendary MiG-21

    Post  starman on Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:30 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    I share obviously this point view, even though the Mig-29 is a real fantastic aircraft. And as the Mig-29 was the successor of the Mig-21, he is necessary better than the Mig-21.

    The Iraqis were disappointed with their MIG-29s in 1991.



    This photo shows a supposed egyptian Mig-21 downed somewhere above the Sinai around october 1973.

    That pic first appeared in Newsweek during the war. They didn't say it was Egyptian but a downed SAF jet over Golan. Of course you're right that was false.


    That book was interesting but old. I have a couple of his ARAB MIGs works.
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    GarryB

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    Re: The legendary MiG-21

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:43 am

    Not a bad figther, but pretty much F-5A/E material. Has nothing on F-16C past Block 25/30.

    It is a small light cheap fighter.

    An AESA radar in the nose,and wingtip R-73 missiles, four R-77 missiles under the wings and belly positions for two R-77s and you have a potent little fighter.

    Helmet mounted sight.

    The US AF had trouble with Indian MiGs because of their size.

    Upgrade their avionics... reduce their top speed, and give it DIRCMS...

    The Iraqis were disappointed with their MIG-29s in 1991.

    Yet they risked losing them flying them to a neighbouring country.

    Their MiG-29s were equipped and armed to an inferior level to Soviet MiG-23s at the time...


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    KiloGolf

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    Re: The legendary MiG-21

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:11 pm

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    nemrod

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    Re: The legendary MiG-21

    Post  nemrod on Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:49 am

    starman wrote:
    The Iraqis were disappointed with their MIG-29s in 1991.
    The Mig-29 is among best aircraft never designed in this world, unfortunately it had to bear the worst burden of an infamous and unfair bad reputation, mostly due to US propaganda.
    AFAIK, it is hard to judge the iraqi Mig-29's performances. First of all, everyone lie, Iraqis lie, and of course US lie, hence it is hard to understand what's exactly happened during 1991's war. Moreover, with the best good will in the world, Iraq could not win the war, even with its Mig-29. It is noteworthy to add that just after the end of the war, Iraqi air force had to sustained huge purges against many of its high ranking officers - IRAF-. Do not forget that Saddam ordered a great part of its aircraft to flee to Iran, the question is why ?

    Aside this, Iam still convinced that a Mig-21 Bis with its R-25 300 is still nowadays a redoubtable opponent against any US aircraft including the F-35. Notice that during this war the F-16 failed to down any iraqi aircraft, however Iraq did have a considerable number of Mig-21. The number of US air victories in 1991 is overstated, and their losses are as usual underestimated.
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    starman

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    Re: The legendary MiG-21

    Post  starman on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:33 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    AFAIK, it is hard to judge the iraqi Mig-29's performances.  First of all, everyone lie, Iraqis lie, and of course US lie, hence it is hard to understand what's exactly happened during 1991's war. Moreover,  with the best good will in the world, Iraq could not win the war, even with its Mig-29.

    From what I've read, Iraq had very few of them, only 29.

    Do not forget that Saddam ordered a great part of its aircraft to flee to Iran, the question is why ?

    The US was destroying Iraqi jets in their hardened shelters. If they couldn't beat the US or coalition in the air or survive in their shelters, Iraq might as well just send them to another state. He should've sent them to Syria but couldn't, for political reasons; Syria was part of the coalition against him. That left only Iran.

    Notice that during this war the F-16 failed to down any iraqi aircraft,

    The F-16s were used for attack missions.

    The number of US air victories in 1991 is overstated, and their losses are as usual underestimated.

    The US conceded that an Iraqi MIG-23 and a MIG-29 hit two aircraft each, totalling IIRC three F-111s and a B-52. All four are said to have survived despite extensive damage to one or two. Maybe the R-60 missile used by the MIGs didn't have sufficient warhead to kill a bomber. Even the R-27 wasn't good enough(?).
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    GarryB

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    Re: The legendary MiG-21

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:07 am

    But no mention of the aircraft the MiG-25 shot down?

    Sounds very selective....


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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