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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie on Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:12 pm


    The adoption of the new weapons by the current ships is a very important upgrade. More important than to replace ships of 30 years old with a potential long life still.


    slasher

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  slasher on Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:09 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Okay, which one of you jokers dumped a canister of nerve gas into National Interest HQ? Because they just published sensible and balanced article on Russian Navy...Suspect


    Why the Russian Navy Is a More Capable Adversary Than It Appears

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-the-russian-navy-more-capable-adversary-it-appears-22009?page=show


    And they just introduced the term "kalibrzation". Also, here is last paragraph:
    ...There are still plenty of deficits to point to, but the Russian Navy isn’t going anywhere; when you look at the trend lines over the near to midterm, they are actually positive. Russia is building a navy that makes sense for its strategy. It is transitioning to a green-water force by design, while retaining and investing in capabilities that will allow it to deter or threaten stronger maritime powers for decades to come. So the next time you hear that the Russian Navy is disappearing, Russia is running out of people, out of money, or out of business, and want to test this theory, just remember to pack a life raft.

    yea I too thought it was an excellent analysis. This was good too:
            http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2798498.html#%2Fcutid1
    Not sure if it was posted already.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:39 pm

    oh for people who thought no more Buyan M's would be built after the Grad. Keep in mind they are talking about Buyan M's only since the regular Buyan's weren't built at Zelenolsk, I happened to find this and thought to share it

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160907/1476295916.html

    Kubinka (Moscow region), 7 Sep - RIA Novosti. The contract signed between the Defense Ministry and Zelenodolsk Shipbuilding Plant on the forum is 27 billion rubles and provides for the construction of three Buyan-M class ships, Rena Novosti's general director Renat Mistakhov said.

    Zelenodolsk plant has already built five ships of this type and transferred them to the Russian Navy. Four ships are in varying degrees of construction.
    "The contract signed today with the Ministry of Defense provides for the construction of three more ships of this type, and in 2019 one ship and two ships will be built in 2020," Mystakhov said after signing the documents.

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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:


    Ha... so much reminded me of old Yugoslavian subs.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:44 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:oh for people who thought no more Buyan M's would be built after the Grad. Keep in mind they are talking about Buyan M's only since the regular Buyan's weren't built at Zelenolsk, I happened to find this and thought to share it

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160907/1476295916.html

    ...........

    Excellent news.thumbsup

    Buyan-M is gift that keeps on giving.

    So this means that there will be 12 in total (at least)
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:13 am

    Plus orders for 18 Karakut's.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:19 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:oh for people who thought no more Buyan M's would be built after the Grad. Keep in mind they are talking about Buyan M's only since the regular Buyan's weren't built at Zelenolsk, I happened to find this and thought to share it

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160907/1476295916.html

    ...........

    Excellent news.thumbsup

    Buyan-M is gift that keeps on giving.

    So this means that there will be 12 in total (at least)

    Well I said this how long ago nothing new.

    slasher

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  slasher on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:59 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:oh for people who thought no more Buyan M's would be built after the Grad. Keep in mind they are talking about Buyan M's only since the regular Buyan's weren't built at Zelenolsk, I happened to find this and thought to share it

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160907/1476295916.html

    ...........

    Excellent news.thumbsup

    Buyan-M is gift that keeps on giving.

    So this means that there will be 12 in total (at least)

    Well I said this how long ago nothing new.

    Also reported the three last ordered are to be upgraded.

    Small missile ships of project 21631 "Buyan-M" will equip a new radar with active phased array and anti-aircraft missile and gun system "Pantsir-SM"
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:53 am

    slasher wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:oh for people who thought no more Buyan M's would be built after the Grad. Keep in mind they are talking about Buyan M's only since the regular Buyan's weren't built at Zelenolsk, I happened to find this and thought to share it

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160907/1476295916.html

    ...........

    Excellent news.thumbsup

    Buyan-M is gift that keeps on giving.

    So this means that there will be 12 in total (at least)

    Well I said this how long ago nothing new.

    Also reported the three last ordered are to be upgraded.

    Small missile ships of project 21631 "Buyan-M" will equip a new radar with active phased array and anti-aircraft missile and gun system "Pantsir-SM"

    Well we will need to see the Grad when she is done, since the Grad is the first of the last three after those two no more Buyan's will be made.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:58 pm

    Always surprised to see the 1204's still out there. Those boys are long in the tooth and I thought the Buyan was to replace.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12139735@egNews

    T-47

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:50 am

    franco wrote:Always surprised to see the 1204's still out there. Those boys are long in the tooth and I thought the Buyan was to replace.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12139735@egNews

    Smetlivy says "hi"



    T-47

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    Admiral Grigorovich class frigate

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:02 pm

    Two more Grigorovich and Lada order most likely coming soon russia russia


    RT reported:

    The ministry is also considering new orders for two Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates in addition to the three currently under construction for the Black Sea fleet and the three already complete, the official said. Another possible purchase is two more advanced Lada-class stealth attack submarines. Funding for both has been requested for the new military procurement program launching next year.

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:04 pm

    Those two frigates if they did order them would likely go tot he Baltic Sea

    T-47

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:25 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Those two frigates if they did order them would likely go tot he Baltic Sea

    I also think that. But my opinion is they should order at least the frigates not the subs and put them into Pacific fleet. Even if its as an interim deployment. Pacific area is getting hotter. Varyag could use some new escorts with her. South China Sea also needs some Kalibr craze.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:27 pm

    T-47 wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Those two frigates if they did order them would likely go tot he Baltic Sea

    I also think that. But my opinion is they should order at least the frigates not the subs and put them into Pacific fleet. Even if its as an interim deployment. Pacific area is getting hotter. Varyag could use some new escorts with her. South China Sea also needs some Kalibr craze.

    Pacific fleet is getting the bigger corvettes and modernized Udaloy's.

    there isn't much need to send those ships there.
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    hoom

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  hoom on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:32 pm

    2 more 11356 over existing 6 ordered or as part of some deal where India gets some of the 2nd lot of 3 ordered for the BSF?
    If we're talking 8 they might split 4 & 4 rather than all 6 going to BSF.

    Occurs to me if the 22350s are being bumped up to ~8k tons then building more 11356 is less problematic in terms of overlapping abilities -> at least 6 for each fleet could be a good way to bump up numbers of modern ships.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:02 pm

    hoom wrote:2 more 11356 over existing 6 ordered or as part of some deal where India gets some of the 2nd lot of 3 ordered for the BSF?
    If we're talking 8 they might split 4 & 4 rather than all 6 going to BSF.

    Occurs to me if the 22350s are being bumped up to ~8k tons then building more 11356 is less problematic in terms of overlapping abilities -> at least 6 for each fleet could be a good way to bump up numbers of modern ships.

    2 are enough for Baltic. It's a tight space with shorter distances so corvettes are preferable. These 2 frigates will be there just in case.

    Black Sea Fleet needs to cover Med now as well so 6 for them it is.

    They just need to add anti-ship function on them now, they really screwed the pooch with that one.

    miroslav

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  miroslav on Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:23 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Black Sea Fleet needs to cover Med now as well so 6 for them it is.

    They just need to add anti-ship function on them now, they really screwed the pooch with that one.

    I agrree that they need 6 of them as a minimum regardles of the configuration (modernized or not), but what do you mean by:

    "They just need to add anti-ship function on them now"

    do they not have the ability to fire Onix and wont the Kaliber fammily soon have a anti-ship version ready, its still in the design and testing phase as far as I understand.

    More importantly while we are on the subject, I wanted to ask this question a long time ago, but, is there any picture or a video of a Russian ship launching an Onix missile from a UKSKs. I haven't actually seen any and that's pretty weird certainly not a good sign.

    I know we had an discussion on, are the UKSKs really universal but wasn't the conclusion that it all depends on the ships equipment, which is quite logical or there is some other problem.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:30 pm

    T-47 wrote:
    franco wrote:Always surprised to see the 1204's still out there. Those boys are long in the tooth and I thought the Buyan was to replace.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12139735@egNews

    Smetlivy says "hi"

    The four 1204 ships remaining active were commissioned in 1969, 1971, 1972 and 1972. The Smetlivy was commissioned also in 1969.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:23 am

    miroslav wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Black Sea Fleet needs to cover Med now as well so 6 for them it is.

    They just need to add anti-ship function on them now, they really screwed the pooch with that one.

    I agrree that they need 6 of them as a minimum regardles of the configuration (modernized or not), but what do you mean by:

    "They just need to add anti-ship function on them now"

    do they not have the ability to fire Onix and wont the Kaliber fammily soon have a anti-ship version ready, its still in the design and testing phase as far as I understand.

    More importantly while we are on the subject, I wanted to ask this question a long time ago, but, is there any picture or a video of a Russian ship launching an Onix missile from a UKSKs. I haven't actually seen any and that's pretty weird certainly not a good sign.

    I know we had an discussion on, are the UKSKs really universal but wasn't the conclusion that it all depends on the ships equipment, which is quite logical or there is some other problem.

    This is the problem with anti-ship setup:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t6680p25-uksk-vls-system#202652

    Grigorevich frigates don't seem to have required equipment to launch Onyx missiles if this is accurate

    And I haven't seen Onyx launch also
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:39 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    miroslav wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Black Sea Fleet needs to cover Med now as well so 6 for them it is.

    They just need to add anti-ship function on them now, they really screwed the pooch with that one.

    I agrree that they need 6 of them as a minimum regardles of the configuration (modernized or not), but what do you mean by:

    "They just need to add anti-ship function on them now"

    do they not have the ability to fire Onix and wont the Kaliber fammily soon have a anti-ship version ready, its still in the design and testing phase as far as I understand.

    More importantly while we are on the subject, I wanted to ask this question a long time ago, but, is there any picture or a video of a Russian ship launching an Onix missile from a UKSKs. I haven't actually seen any and that's pretty weird certainly not a good sign.

    I know we had an discussion on, are the UKSKs really universal but wasn't the conclusion that it all depends on the ships equipment, which is quite logical or there is some other problem.

    This is the problem with anti-ship setup:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t6680p25-uksk-vls-system#202652

    Grigorevich frigates don't seem to have required equipment to launch Onyx missiles if this is accurate

    And I haven't seen Onyx launch also

    3M-54 isnt supersonic in terminal phase? somaybe Onix is not priority there.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:40 am

    T-47 wrote:
    franco wrote:Always surprised to see the 1204's still out there. Those boys are long in the tooth and I thought the Buyan was to replace.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12139735@egNews

    Smetlivy says "hi"



    God God, when are they ever going to get rid of that heap of trash? dunno
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:00 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    T-47 wrote:
    franco wrote:Always surprised to see the 1204's still out there. Those boys are long in the tooth and I thought the Buyan was to replace.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12139735@egNews

    Smetlivy says "hi"

    .........

    God God, when are they ever going to get rid of that heap of trash? dunno 


    2 decades from now.

    Fun fact: after Crimea reunification other similar ship caught fire and got scraped. However it's turbines were fresh out of overhaul so they moved them to Smetlivi thus extended her service life without planning to.

    She will be around for a while. Still perfectly good as offshore patrol vessel. Has range, has helicopter, has guns. Even has 8 Uran missiles as a bonus.

    Would be dumb to throw it away now when it's unexpectedly overhauled. Pirates won't find any comfort in ship's old age once it's starts shooting up their asses.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:14 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    T-47 wrote:
    franco wrote:Always surprised to see the 1204's still out there. Those boys are long in the tooth and I thought the Buyan was to replace.

    http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12139735@egNews

    Smetlivy says "hi"

    .........

    God God, when are they ever going to get rid of that heap of trash? dunno 


    2 decades from now.

    Fun fact: after Crimea reunification other similar ship caught fire and got scraped. However it's turbines were fresh out of overhaul so they moved them to Smetlivi thus extended her service life without planning to.

    She will be around for a while. Still perfectly good as offshore patrol vessel. Has range, has helicopter, has guns. Even has 8 Uran missiles as a bonus.

    Would be dumb to throw it away now when it's unexpectedly overhauled. Pirates won't find any comfort in ship's old age once it's starts shooting up their asses.

    The issue is the huge waste of human resources for such a low-capability ship (> 250 sailors). A small FAC can have 8 Urans and an OPV can perform the rest of its duties. And that keeping busy less people and having two vessels in its place, for much longer time.

    I highly doubt this vessel will be of any use to anyone past 2025. It's a waste of money to keep it afloat like that imo.

    T-47

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  T-47 on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:22 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    Pacific fleet is getting the bigger corvettes and modernized Udaloy's.

    there isn't much need to send those ships there.

    I said "Even if its as an interim deployment." But Vladivostok is very long way. BTW frigates are always better than bigger corvettes. But anyway if it works it works, nobody cares how.

    eehnie wrote:
    The four 1204 ships remaining active were commissioned in 1969, 1971, 1972 and 1972. The Smetlivy was commissioned also in 1969.

    Thats why Smetlivy said hi Razz 1204s are small boats. Smetlivy is a destroyer. Lots of new kids came, get old and get scrapped but this granny is still trolling around like a boss afro

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