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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:00 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Huskies and Yasens will never be built in parallel. One is replacement for the other.

    As for SSGN version of Borei it's an excellent idea. Boreis are coming along nicely and price tag is in the sweet spot.

    Having extra ships ordered would also bring price of both SSGN and SSBN variants further down.

    There are also couple of old Delta SSBNs that are too loud for boomer duty that they want to retire but could be converted to Kalibr "missile farms" and serve in that role. Other than noise those ships are fine. And noise doesn't matter when you dump LACMs in the Middle​ East or some similar place

    That's another good point on the Deltas.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SLB on Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:52 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:

    That's what they've been up to for over 20 years. 3 boomers and an SSN/SSGN hybrid (worst of both world's if you ask me) to show with all that tech, base and know-how that they've inherited from the USSR. It's a frickin sideshow for a country that considers itself a global power. Barely at the level France and the UK.

    Still waiting for your answer KiloGolf. The Yasen is, in your words "an SSN/SSGN hybrid (worst of both world's if you ask me)".

    Since the US navy will in the near future deploy the block V Virginia, that is also an SSN/SSGN hybrid, is it also the worst of both worlds?
    Or is it not, just because it is made in USA?

    Inquiring minds would like to know...
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:15 pm

    SLB wrote:Still waiting for your answer KiloGolf. The Yasen is, in your words "an SSN/SSGN hybrid (worst of both world's if you ask me)".

    Keep waiting, there's no answer to anything here.
    It is a compromise as it seems. Neither this or that.

    If you think it's not, go ahead and make your case/point. I'm among the inquiring minds and I'm all eyes.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SLB on Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:24 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    SLB wrote:Still waiting for your answer KiloGolf. The Yasen is, in your words "an SSN/SSGN hybrid (worst of both world's if you ask me)".

    Keep waiting, there's no answer to anything here.
    It is a compromise as it seems. Neither this or that.

    So, it's not the worst of both worlds anymore, now it's just a compromise... lol1
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:26 pm

    SLB wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    SLB wrote:Still waiting for your answer KiloGolf. The Yasen is, in your words "an SSN/SSGN hybrid (worst of both world's if you ask me)".

    Keep waiting, there's no answer to anything here.
    It is a compromise as it seems. Neither this or that.

    So, it's not the worst of both worlds anymore... lol1

    If that's what you understood. Sadly not my point.
    Neither this or that i.e. worst of both worlds.

    Go on then.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SLB on Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:41 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    SLB wrote:Still waiting for your answer KiloGolf. The Yasen is, in your words "an SSN/SSGN hybrid (worst of both world's if you ask me)".

    Keep waiting, there's no answer to anything here.
    It is a compromise as it seems. Neither this or that.

    If you think it's not, go ahead and make your case/point. I'm among the inquiring minds and I'm all eyes.

    My point has already been made by this dialogue. Thank you.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:44 pm

    SLB wrote:My point has already been made by this dialogue. Thank you.

    No points made by you here.
    Just a useless back and forth, without expanding on how you think it aint a compromise (one that leads to "worst of both worlds" as I said).

    SLB wrote:now it's just a compromise... lol1

    Not necessarily, it's both. Not too complicated to figure out, really. unshaven
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    Benya

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Benya on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:05 am

    Future of Russian Navy Submarine Force Within State Armaments Program 2025 - Part 2

    The new State Armaments Program (SAP) for 2018-2025 that comes into effect from January 2018 reportedly calls for drastic cuts to a number of expensive programs. The effects of restraints on the Russian Navy’s rearmament plans will be more severe, however, the upgrade of the submarine forces will continue, writes the online media outlet Lenta.ru.


    Artist impression of "Husky" project as shown by Malachite (JSC «Saint-Petersburg Marine Design Bureau «Malachite») during a defense exhibition in 2016.

    The issue of designing a new generation nuclear submarine in Russia arose back in 2013-2014 and it was about an attack submarine. Then a number of sources reported a strategic missile submarine, while some media talked about the preparations for building a "versatile" submarine that would combine the capabilities of strategic and attack boats. The code name ‘Husky’ for the project was reported in the media. The keel of a new generation lead boat is expected to be laid in 2020-2021.

    Summarizing the available information, the following can be concluded:
    1. It’s about the design of a family of nuclear-powered submarines of three main classes - SSBN and two attack boats, a cruise missile submarine (SSGN) and a SSN submarine carrying mines and torpedoes as predominant armament;
    2. The new family of boats will share the general ship systems, including primarily the propulsion, control and underwater acoustic systems;
    3. The family’s baseline design is an attack submarine carrying mines and torpedoes, capable of launching cruise missiles from torpedo tubes, with a submerged displacement of presumably 8,000-9,000 tons and a speed of 32-33 knots. The submarine should also be able to carry combat swimmers and their vehicles. The SSBN and SSGN designs are distinguished by additional compartments in the pressure hull with launchers for the corresponding types of missiles;
    4. It is not ruled out that universal launchers will be installed on the boats of this generation that make it possible to house either one ballistic missile or a container for 5-7 cruise missiles of different types in a silo;
    5. The boats will be fitted with a quite traditional nuclear propulsion system: they will be able to use the off-the-shelf steam-turbine units with water-powered power reactors that have been proven on the Projects 885 and 955 submarines being currently under construction;
    6. The project's economics should provide for the construction of at least 16-20 attack submarines (and the possibility of continuation) with the keel-laying of an average of three submarines every two years and a construction period from keel-laying to delivery to the customer of 4-4.5 years. Thus, the first submarines of the new project should be available in around 2025, the delivery of the last ships of the series - in the mid-2030s;
    7. The availability of a strategic submarine in the family of new generation nuclear submarines will make it possible to continue the rearmament of the naval strategic nuclear forces in the 2020s if a compromise on a further reduction of strategic offensive arms between Russia and the United States (and also other nuclear powers) is not achieved


    Lada class Diesel Electric Submarine (SSK) Project 677. The future Kalina project is set to be equipped with an air-independent propulsion unit and combine the best characteristics of the Project 636 and Project 677 submarines.

    The renewal program for diesel submarines, designed to meet challenges in the "closed" theaters of the Baltic, Black, Mediterranean, Japanese seas and near the coast in the Arctic and Pacific oceans also raises a number of questions. The obvious failure of new Project 677 (Lada), upon which high expectations were once placed, to meet deadlines, has forced the Navy to re-equip the "diesel" squadrons of the Black Sea and Pacific submarine forces with the boats of previous Project 636. Moreover, the order for these submarines, consisting already of 12 units, may be increased.

    These submarines were to be superseded on the slipway by a boat of a new project, which received the code name Kalina. In 2016, it was announced that the construction of submarines of this type will begin as soon as 2018. However, a year later, on June 28, 2017, Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy for Armament, Vice Admiral Viktor Bursuk said at the International Naval Show in St. Petersburg that two production Project 677 submarines will be contracted soon. There are plans to build them at Admiralty Shipyard through 2025, with the subsequent continuation. The fate of the Kalina project was not mentioned.

    Coupled with the news of 2016 about the beginning of the sea trials of Russian-designed air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems, it can be assumed that the domestic industry managed to cope with the main problems that prevented the batch construction of Project 677 boats. As for the number of new ships, it should be expected that by the late 2020s the Navy will have 12-18 Project 636 submarines and 6-9 new generation boats, the main feature of which is a drastic increase in the submerged range due to the AIP system, writes the online media outlet Lenta.ru.

    Source: Arrow http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/5415-future-of-russian-navy-submarine-force-within-state-armaments-program-2025-part-2.html
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:22 pm


    Huh, so it looks like I was right about possibility of unifying all three submarine types under one project. Fancy that...  Suspect

    Benya wrote:............
    1. It’s about the design of a family of nuclear-powered submarines of three main classes - SSBN and two attack boats, a cruise missile submarine (SSGN) and a SSN submarine carrying mines and torpedoes as predominant armament;
    2. The new family of boats will share the general ship systems, including primarily the propulsion, control and underwater acoustic systems;
    3. The family’s baseline design is an attack submarine carrying mines and torpedoes, capable of launching cruise missiles from torpedo tubes, with a submerged displacement of presumably 8,000-9,000 tons and a speed of 32-33 knots. The submarine should also be able to carry combat swimmers and their vehicles. The SSBN and SSGN designs are distinguished by additional compartments in the pressure hull with launchers for the corresponding types of missiles.....


    This article from WiB suggests that during first phase they will focus on SSN and SSGN classes and that they will move to SSBN later in the project presumably when production warms up. This would mean that Borei subs will be in production for a while more in parallel with attack Huskies.

    http://warisboring.com/russias-husky-class-submarines-borrow-from-the-u-s-navys-playbook/    (ignore headline and last paragraph as usual)



    Benya wrote:......
    Coupled with the news of 2016 about the beginning of the sea trials of Russian-designed air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems, it can be assumed that the domestic industry managed to cope with the main problems that prevented the batch construction of Project 677 boats. As for the number of new ships, it should be expected that by the late 2020s the Navy will have 12-18 Project 636 submarines and 6-9 new generation boats.....

    They finally cracked AIP? Took them a while but it's good to hear. If it's really as good as they say (hydrogen extraction from oil) then it was worth the wait.

    Luckily for them "old " Kilo subs are as good as they are otherwise they would have had massive hole in their sub fleet right now.
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    Benya

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Benya on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:25 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Huh, so it looks like I was right about possibility of unifying all three submarine types under one project. Fancy that...  Suspect

    This article from WiB suggests that during first phase they will focus on SSN and SSGN classes and that they will move to SSBN later in the project presumably when production warms up. This would mean that Borei subs will be in production for a while more in parallel with attack Huskies.

    http://warisboring.com/russias-husky-class-submarines-borrow-from-the-u-s-navys-playbook/    (ignore headline and last paragraph as usual)

    Husky SSBNs? Sounds interesting, but that's what Boreis are for, or...

    ... Huskies will be multi-mission subs like Yasens. Yasens will be SSN/SSGNs while Huskies SSGN/SSBNs, while Boreis will be dedicated SSBNs and Kalinas will be SSKs.

    They finally cracked AIP? Took them a while but it's good to hear. If it's really as good as they say (hydrogen extraction from oil) then it was worth the wait.

    Luckily for them "old " Kilo subs are as good as they are otherwise they would have had massive hole in their sub fleet right now.

    Older Kilos, especially the ones that were commissioned in the '90s could be somewhat modernized by equipping them with this new type of propulsion system, refurbishing their electronics, sonar and weapon systems. This would extend their service lives by 10-15 years, and I think that this would be cheaper than building more and more Varshavyankas (Project 636).
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:12 pm

    Benya wrote:Older Kilos, especially the ones that were commissioned in the '90s could be somewhat modernized

    Interesting.

    That's a total of 10 Kilos that came online in late 1989 to 1994 (one possibly in reserve and two got a refit in 2012-2015). I agree that this is a promising pool of boats that can get a decent modernization to keep them useful through to late 2020s. Possibly even tube-launched Kalibr capability can be considered for them, which I suspect they don't have right now). The Algerians gave their older Kilos from the 1980s an upgrade that included Klub capability.

    In addition there are ~6 active Kilos (some more in reserve) in the RuN, commissioned before 1989. I suspect these will be replaced by the recent order for 636s (6 boats for the PF).
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:01 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Benya wrote:Older Kilos, especially the ones that were commissioned in the '90s could be somewhat modernized

    Interesting.

    That's a total of 10 Kilos that came online in late 1989 to 1994 (one possibly in reserve and two got a refit in 2012-2015). I agree that this is a promising pool of boats that can get a decent modernization to keep them useful through to late 2020s. Possibly even tube-launched Kalibr capability can be considered for them, which I suspect they don't have right now). The Algerians gave their older Kilos from the 1980s an upgrade that included Klub capability.

    In addition there are ~6 active Kilos (some more in reserve) in the RuN, commissioned before 1989. I suspect these will be replaced by the recent order for 636s (6 boats for the PF).

    Have read reports of planned upgrades for 8 Kilos but that was a year or so ago.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:57 pm

    More on the planned a/c carrier: https://liganews.net/news/911_1498667437?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=marketgid&utm_campaign=liganews.net&utm_term=1270766s535&utm_content=5530973
    По проекту длина составляет 330 м, ширина — 42 м, максимальная осадка — 11 м. Водоизмещение не будет превышать 100 тысяч тонн. Авианосцы проекта «Шторм» получат ледовый класс и будут приспособлены для работы в холодных широтах. Корабль получит два «острова», палубные надстройки для размещения постов наблюдения, командного мостика, радиоэлектронного оборудования и средств связи.
    В 2016 году было объявлено, что корабли проекта получат ядерные силовые установки. Предполагается, что это будут атомные реакторы РИТМ-200, которые ранее будут испытаны на ледоколе "Арктика".

    This is an English language forum, and as such while you can post in any language you like you must provide either an english translation or at least a summary in english.
    GarryB

    Note as you mention in a later post it is easy enough to use a translation programme, but then again it is even easier to just ban those that do not follow the rules.
    If you admit it is so easy to translate using automatic translation software then why not post the translated English in this English language forum instead of the original.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:52 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:More on the planned a/c carrier: https://liganews.net/news/911_1498667437?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=marketgid&utm_campaign=liganews.net&utm_term=1270766s535&utm_content=5530973
    По проекту длина составляет 330 м, ширина — 42 м, максимальная осадка — 11 м. Водоизмещение не будет превышать 100 тысяч тонн. Авианосцы проекта «Шторм» получат ледовый класс и будут приспособлены для работы в холодных широтах. Корабль получит два «острова», палубные надстройки для размещения постов наблюдения, командного мостика, радиоэлектронного оборудования и средств связи.
    В 2016 году было объявлено, что корабли проекта получат ядерные силовые установки. Предполагается, что это будут атомные реакторы РИТМ-200, которые ранее будут испытаны на ледоколе "Арктика".

    I read name "Shtorm" and trust me, it's not happening...
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:59 am

    "получат ледовый класс" - well... that sounds somewhat unrealistic i am afraid.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:41 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:More on the planned a/c carrier: https://liganews.net/news/911_1498667437?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=marketgid&utm_campaign=liganews.net&utm_term=1270766s535&utm_content=5530973
    По проекту длина составляет 330 м, ширина — 42 м, максимальная осадка — 11 м. Водоизмещение не будет превышать 100 тысяч тонн. Авианосцы проекта «Шторм» получат ледовый класс и будут приспособлены для работы в холодных широтах. Корабль получит два «острова», палубные надстройки для размещения постов наблюдения, командного мостика, радиоэлектронного оборудования и средств связи.
    В 2016 году было объявлено, что корабли проекта получат ядерные силовые установки. Предполагается, что это будут атомные реакторы РИТМ-200, которые ранее будут испытаны на ледоколе "Арктика".

    I read name "Shtorm" and trust me, it's not happening...

    Same information nothing new, They want to lay it down by 2025 etc, said it will have catapults. Also said it will have Anti Air VLS missiles and thats about it really.
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    Benya

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Benya on Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:39 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:More on the planned a/c carrier: https://liganews.net/news/911_1498667437?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=marketgid&utm_campaign=liganews.net&utm_term=1270766s535&utm_content=5530973
    По проекту длина составляет 330 м, ширина — 42 м, максимальная осадка — 11 м. Водоизмещение не будет превышать 100 тысяч тонн. Авианосцы проекта «Шторм» получат ледовый класс и будут приспособлены для работы в холодных широтах. Корабль получит два «острова», палубные надстройки для размещения постов наблюдения, командного мостика, радиоэлектронного оборудования и средств связи.
    В 2016 году было объявлено, что корабли проекта получат ядерные силовые установки. Предполагается, что это будут атомные реакторы РИТМ-200, которые ранее будут испытаны на ледоколе "Арктика".

    Wrong thread my friend, not to mention the lack of english translation, for which mods will warn you.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:01 am

    Which thread is the right 1 to post this? Adm K. isn't Shtorm by any stretch.  Anyone can use free google translating tool if they can't read in original Russian: https://translate.google.com/
    I don't recall any posts by moderators since I started using this site. Ice strengthened hull is new to me, but it's not surprising as the class will be deployed in the Arctic & possibly Okhotsk Sea in exercises. Even with icebreaker escort it's better to have it. We can argue forever if it's "going to happen" or not, in any case the name of the class isn't that important. The Soviet past failures aren't indicative of the future as RF isn't the USSR- it's "leaner and meaner" as the Caspian Flotilla & BSF small ships & subs demonstrated striking Syria on several occasions with LACMs.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:04 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Which thread is the right 1 to post this? Adm K. isn't Shtorm by any stretch.  Anyone can use free google translating tool if they can't read in original Russian: https://translate.google.com/
    I don't recall any posts by moderators since I started using this site. Ice strengthened hull is new to me, but it's not surprising as the class will be deployed in the Arctic & possibly Okhotsk Sea in exercises. Even with icebreaker escort it's better to have it. We can argue forever if it's "going to happen" or not, in any case the name of the class isn't that important. The Soviet past failures aren't indicative of the future as RF isn't the USSR- it's "leaner and meaner" as the Caspian Flotilla & BSF small ships & subs demonstrated striking Syria on several occasions with LACMs.

    Well you have the,

    Russian Naval Construction Plans and Update thread

    Russian Carrier air wing thread

    Future russian aircraft carriers thread

    Any of these would do.

    I wondered about that reinforced hull as well, problem is it will increase the cost not to mention time, and i am not sure how it'll preform in non-cold water areas.
    The answer might be lasers to cut through the ice instead.
    Anyway whatever's good, so long as small AWACSs and fully loaded fighters can launch from it.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:56 am

    If lasers could be used for that, IMO the concept would be more widely known by now. The CVN type hull must be sturdy anyway; it won't add much to the cost or take away from performance. It may even add more years to the hull life. "The Russian fleet is ordered to be the 2nd in the world": http://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2017-07-28/2_958_red.html?print=Y
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:35 pm



    _________________
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:50 am

    The first parade of the Russian Navy in the raid of Syrian Tartus in the Mediterranean Sea

    In honor of the Day of the Russian Navy in the Syrian port of Tartus, where the logistics center for Russian ships is located, there was a maritime parade, the website Russkaya Vesna

    It involved eight ships and supply vessels. Commanded by the parade commander of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea, Captain 1st Rank Pavel Yasnitsky.

    Traditionally, the celebration began with the raising of the national flag of the Russian Federation and the St. Andrew's flag. Then the commander of the Russian group of forces in Syria, Sergey Surovikin, together with Pavel Yasnitsky, conducted a roundabout of the ships' parade on the anti-sabotage boat "Grachonok". After that they boarded the frigate "Admiral Essen" and congratulated the crew on the holiday. The captain of the 1st rank on video communication reported to the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Vladimir Korolev about the readiness of ships and ships for the parade.

    In the meantime, local residents gathered on the quay of Tartus. They hold in their hands the banners of Russia and Syria, as well as the Andreev flags. The submarine was headed by the submarine of the Black Sea Fleet "Krasnodar", which is armed with cruise missiles "Caliber". It was followed by the universal rescue tug SB-739, the sea trawler Valentin Pikul, the special-purpose ship of the Baltic Fleet Vasily Tatishchev, the patrol ship Pytlivy and the frigate Admiral Essen. The quilty ship "KIL-158" closed the ship parade.








    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2760249.html


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:57 pm

    Well, I found this little contribution to legacy of Bard's Language, someone please make a screenshot for prosperity please:

    Navy Day is a national holiday for Russians on which huge parades are held in St Petersburg - Moscow’s second largest city and the home of the Navy - on the last Sunday of July.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-syria-military-parade-tartous-latakia-bashar-al-assad-regime-navy-day-a7868646.html
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:29 am

    List and pics of all ships and submarines currently being built for Navy. 106 ships and submarines in total (all types)

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/96610/


    1) Russia has a lot more shipyards that build Naval vessels than I thought

    2) Shipyards in Crimea are loaded with work, Zaliv especially

    3) What the heck is this ship for? Says it's a torpedo hunter (Катер-торпедолов проекта 1388НЗТ)

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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:46 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    3) What the heck is this ship for? Says it's a torpedo hunter (Катер-торпедолов проекта 1388НЗТ)


    Fired training torpedos recovery, training torpedo transport, retrieval of torpedos lost in accidents etc, etc.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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