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    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:54 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Replace K with M, my bad on the typos there.

    also, the 20386's are more than 300M each.

    c'mon but 22160 is not 200mln $ affraid affraid affraid this is like 7blns Rubles vs 2blns for 22800 scratch scratch scratch

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  kumbor on Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:34 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Replace K with M, my bad on the typos there.

    also, the 20386's are more than 300M each.

    c'mon but 22160 is not 200mln $ affraid affraid affraid  this is like 7blns Rubles vs 2blns for 22800 scratch scratch scratch

    Anyway, the cost Russians are building ships for is 2-3 times less than western prices for similar ship.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:35 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Replace K with M, my bad on the typos there.

    also, the 20386's are more than 300M each.

    c'mon but 22160 is not 200mln $ affraid affraid affraid  this is like 7blns Rubles vs 2blns for 22800 scratch scratch scratch

    22800 is a smaller ship and has fewer features, lacks the facilities for a chopper etc.

    All the stuff the 22160 drives it up to that price if you want a modular ship it's going to be pricy.

    Still for what the 22160 offers the price is pretty good for what it costs to make.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:06 pm

    22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:08 pm

    Hole wrote:22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.

    I never said it did need one....
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:28 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    22800 is a smaller ship and has fewer features, lacks the facilities for a chopper etc.

    All the stuff the 22160 drives it up to that price if you want a modular ship it's going to be pricy.

    Still for what the 22160 offers the price is pretty good for what it costs to make.

    still I cannot believe in 1:7 price ratio. 2x perhaps. Especially that "avionics", armament on 22800 isn't free either...

    In every case if you find any other price mentioned for 22160 I'd appreciate thiis.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:17 am

    22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.

    Every ship benefits from having a helicopter...

    Saving money is nice but having fully multirole ships is worth the extra money as it makes any group of ships much more capable and more flexible.

    Obviously a corvette sized ship is not going to be as good at any job as a larger ship, but groups can make up for that... for instance a single corvette might have rather weak anti sub capability, but 3-4 of them operating together might actually be more effective than one large multirole ship... but of course having a helicopter would make them even better... especially a multirole Ka-226T type that could carry different role pods.

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  kumbor on Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:21 am

    GarryB wrote:
    22800 is a small missile ship. It doesn´t need a helicopter.

    Every ship benefits from having a helicopter...

    Saving money is nice but having fully multirole ships is worth the extra money as it makes any group of ships much more capable and more flexible.

    Obviously a corvette sized ship is not going to be as good at any job as a larger ship, but groups can make up for that... for instance a single corvette might have rather weak anti sub capability, but 3-4 of them operating together might actually be more effective than one large multirole ship... but of course having a helicopter would make them even better... especially a multirole Ka-226T type that could carry different role pods.

    Ka-226 is a light helicopter, never intended to be a real ASW helicopter. Bykov class is an OPV, but if so equipped might become a good ASW vessel.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:42 pm

    kumbor wrote:

    Ka-226 is a light helicopter, never intended to be a real ASW helicopter. Bykov class is an OPV, but if so equipped might become a good ASW vessel.

    Ka-226 payload: up to 1100kg

    324mm torpedo weight 250kg
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:31 am

    It also needs dunking sonar, some sonar buoys and maybe a light radar. Could be done, but the range will be relatively low.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:53 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kumbor wrote:

    Ka-226 is a light helicopter, never intended to be a real ASW helicopter. Bykov class is an OPV, but if so equipped might become a good ASW vessel.

    Ka-226 payload: up to 1100kg

    324mm torpedo weight 250kg

    For SaR role it could be nice on a carrier or future helicopter carrier. Ka-27 are big.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:48 pm

    I guess this would be better than Ka-226:


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:32 pm

    Hole wrote:It also needs dunking sonar, some sonar buoys and maybe a light radar. Could be done, but the range will be relatively low.

    still better then any on small ship.


    Hole wrote:I guess this would be better than Ka-226:

    why unmanned is better? it unlikely has longer duration of flight or payload
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:50 pm

    With the size/weight of the Ka-226 it would be. 2 people need a lot of space.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:25 pm

    Hole wrote:With the size/weight of the Ka-226 it would be. 2 people need a lot of space.

    but you cannot use it for SAR anymore.

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom on Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:37 pm

    These are from back during naval day period

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:23 am

    Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:50 am

    flamming_python wrote:Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov

    Yes, for 120-150 mio you get bigger and better equipped Steregushchy. On the other hand, 45 mio is incredible three times cheapper. The size and armament is not that worse on Bykov class. So perhaps, modular design and use of weapons that are already in mass production could explain the difference. Or the fact that it's not really a warship, but more of a large patrol craft for use against pirates, so it might be less stealthy, not made from expensive composite materials etc.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:58 am

    flamming_python wrote:Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov

    I dont that modulatiry  (I mean hull) costs that much. Perhaps some sophisticated equipment not installed in patrol version?


    in 2016 22800 was 6 blns rub

    https://www.dp.ru/a/2016/05/10/Pella_peredaet_zakazi_



    I have been searching but found no official data. Only price 9blns rub. What is possible  IMHO for ship with displacement of Stereguschy . Better sea worthiness and speed. Only armament is worse.

    Note that Stereguschy is from 13 blns 20380 up to 29 blns for 20386...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:46 pm

    It also needs dunking sonar, some sonar buoys and maybe a light radar. Could be done, but the range will be relatively low.

    Modular Ka-226T could have a rear pod that contains a dipping sonar and a radar would be standard I would expect... it does not need to carry around torpedoes as the UKSK launcher can be loaded with mach 2.5 rocket propelled ballisticly delivered torpedoes if needed.

    Tiny 324mm torpedoes could also be carried of course... they are less than 400kgs each.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:14 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Tiny 324mm torpedoes could also be carried of course... they are less than 400kgs each.


    MU90 - 300kg
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:20 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Absurd to claim that the 22160 costs $200 million. For that money they can almost build a whole Gorshkov

    I dont that modulatiry  (I mean hull) costs that much. Perhaps some sophisticated equipment not installed in patrol version?


    in 2016 22800 was 6 blns rub

    https://www.dp.ru/a/2016/05/10/Pella_peredaet_zakazi_



    I have been searching but found no official data. Only price 9blns rub. What is possible  IMHO for ship with displacement of Stereguschy . Better sea worthiness and speed. Only armament is worse.

    Note that Stereguschy is from 13 blns 20380 up to 29 blns for 20386...

    Stere is a bit more than 13B Rubles but that's a close price.

    Has of right now 200M USD is the price for 22160's, maybe they will bump the price down in the future as they did with the karakut's and Stere's.

    For right now though the ship is a brand new class and you will always pay more than normal for the first few hulls of a new class.

    This is how economics works.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:13 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    Has of right now 200M USD is the price for 22160's, maybe they will bump the price down in the future as they did with the karakut's and Stere's.

    For right now though the ship is a brand new class and you will always pay more than normal for the first few hulls of a new class.

    This is how economics works.

    9 billions is 139 million $ for 22160 - up to 1500-1700 tons
    6 billions is 90 million for 22800......- 800-900 ton

    If they go down with prices it depends on Navy requirements I'd presume. If appetite grows with eating then price goes as with Stere up. BTW No wonder that 20386 is more expensive
    compare displacement, ti's actually small frigate:

    20386.................3,400 t
    11356.................3,600t std
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:43 pm

    MU90 - 300kg

    S3V guided depth charge = 94kgs

    APR-3ME antisub missile = 475kgs

    TT-4 air launched thermal powered homing torpedo = 380kgs

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:52 pm

    Couple of pics at Zaliv from https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/112711/



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