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    Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:04 pm

    Getting a lot of publicity, even a really complementary article in the Warzone, this is the start

    Russia is constructing half a dozen Project 22160 patrol boats that leverage an innovative and compact design that provides a lot of capability and potentially a huge amount of combat punch in a relatively small seaframe. The concept is innovative enough that it should be studied by western navies as a source of inspiration for their own future multi-role combat vessels.

    Displacing just 1,300 tons, and at 308 feet long, these vessels sport stealthy features and have a range of 6,000 miles. They can stay at sea for 60 days while housing a crew complement of approximately 80 people. They aren't slowpokes either and can hit speeds of up to 30 knots.

    The class was designed with a slew of missions in mind, including everything from anti-piracy to counter-terrorism, and even strike and special operations support. But above all else they are sea control vessels capable of blue water operations just as much as brown water operations.


    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19796/russias-new-little-missile-packing-patrol-ship-is-a-pretty-genius-design
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:16 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Getting a lot of publicity, even a really complementary article in the Warzone, this is the start
    ..............
    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19796/russias-new-little-missile-packing-patrol-ship-is-a-pretty-genius-design

    Wait, Tyler ''USA-Stronkk'' Rogoway is praising Russian equipment? Suspect

    Holy crap, it means that this thing must be more powerful than Yasen SSGN...
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  George1 on Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:28 am

    JSC Zelenodolsky Plant named after A.M. Gorky also signed on October 9, 2014 a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense for the construction of five serial patrol ships of Project 22160 with factory numbers 162, 163, 164, 165 and 166, which are currently planted at Zelenodolsk Plant and are all in various stages of construction. These are the patrol ships "Dmitry Rogachev" (factory number 162, laid July 25, 2014), "Paul Derzhavin" (plant number 163, laid February 18, 2016), "Sergei Kotov" (plant number 164, laid May 8, 2016) , "Victor the Great" (factory number 165, laid down on November 25, 2016) and "Nikolai Sipyagin" (plant number 166, laid January 13, 2018).
    At the same time, the construction of the ships "Pavel Derzhavin" and "Sergei Kotov" is carried out on the slipway at the Zaliv plant in Kerch. The contractual date for delivery of ships with factory numbers 162, 163 and 164 - 2018, with factory numbers 165 and 166 - 2019. All six ships are intended for the Black Sea Fleet.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3143437.html

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom on Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:12 am

    Pretty enough for export Smile
    bounce I really wish it had at least a Ghibka & an Ak-630 though dunno (or confirm a containerised Tor module or something)
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:38 am

    It´s an anti-pirate vessel.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:59 pm

    Fresh image of a first (Project) 22160 "patrol ship" - Vasily Bykov (hull no.368; plant no.161) - undergoing degaussing at Novorossiysk


    hoom

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom on Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:45 am

    It´s an anti-pirate vessel.
    Yeah I realise that, I mentally alternate between 'its anti-pirate -> doesn't need AA' and 'its 1500ton with Calibr & Navy not Coastguard -> should at least have a basic AA ability' dunno

    Wider pic from other angle


    Wait, Tyler ''USA-Stronkk'' Rogoway is praising Russian equipment? Suspect
    Weird, not even damned by faint praise in that Suspect
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:07 am

    The Kalibers would mostly be used against opponents like IS in Syria. No need for air defence there.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:55 am


    hoom

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  hoom on Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:19 am

    Some more degaussing pics from Balancer



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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:54 am

    Sounds like Algeria is interested in this ship...

    Algeria is interested in the construction of patrol ships of project 22160


    foreign customers 012 [ Algeria ]

    The decision of the Russian Federation Industry and Trade №17 / 03 / 09-440 of 07.18.2017, concerning Construction of Project 22160 patrol boat with the  «CLUB-N» missile system and air defense missile systems ( Palma) - 4 units.

    (1 pcs. Construction in the Russian Federation, 3 pcs. Construction at the shipyard foreign customers).

    Materials for the construction of a shipyard in the Russian Federation and the Customer sent to the ESR, the 18/08/2017

    At the request of JSC "Rosoboronexport" services for the preparation of the tender offer by the quickly provided with the necessary materials.
    November 15 materials transferred to foreign customers 012.
    Term of consideration and decision-making - February 2018

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3168281.html
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    George1

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  George1 on Thu May 03, 2018 12:55 pm

    Project 22160 "stealthy patrol ships" are to host BVP-500 coaxial rotors UAVs

    https://iz.ru/736124/nikolai-surkov-aleksei-ramm/stels-patrulnye-poluchat-dronov-razvedchikov
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 3:49 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    The decision of the Russian Federation Industry and Trade №17 / 03 / 09-440 of 07.18.2017, concerning Construction of Project 22160 patrol boat with the  «CLUB-N» missile system and air defense missile systems ( Palma) - 4 units.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3168281.html


    Damn, and when I said arm 22160 with calibers and Pantsir-M you get better corvette than 22800! Since displacement is bigger I am sure PAkce-NK + sonars would fit too ...
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu May 03, 2018 8:55 pm

    I am quite interested in the service of these vessels, I will watch them with interest.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Thu May 03, 2018 9:17 pm

    Of course it's better armed when it's twice larger than light corvette Karakurt! Smile

    By displacement it's more comparable to Steregushchy class heavy corvette. Why do they need so many classes remains a mystery to me. And please don't say different roles. How can you call a patrol boat something armed with cruise missiles. It's like calling Kuznetsov a cruiser and 8000 ton Gorshkov a frigate. Make it sound smaller than it really is, so nobody can blame you for an arms race.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Thu May 03, 2018 9:57 pm

    Steregutschiy is a "coastal guard ship 1. class" or so.
    Karakurt is a "small missile ship"
    22160 is something like a "multipurpose patrol ship".

    For the russian Navy they are different.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 03, 2018 10:21 pm


    22160:
    Range: 9650 km
    Endurance: 60 days

    Steregushchiy:
    Range: 7,000 km
    Endurance: 15 days


    See the difference? 22160 is actual long range anti-piracy patrol ship. Now they use Udalois and Slavas for anti-piracy ops and diplomatic visits. Waste of resources.

    These new ones will take the load off and free up proper warships for proper work.

    22160 can also do other interesting stuff, mostly related to deploying spec-ops and other ''shady'' work. And in real war they can alway act as missile ships, same as Karakurts.


    -----------------
    -----------------


    Question ALSO: Can mods rename this tread to ''Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship''?

    It's way past time to add class name in title since first ship was given a name.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 03, 2018 10:58 pm

    Hole wrote:Steregutschiy is a "coastal guard ship 1. class" or so.
    Karakurt is a "small missile ship"
    22160 is something like a "multipurpose patrol ship".

    For the russian Navy they are different.

    I know. RN can call them as they want, nevertheless technically they all in similar league. what's more range and autonomy  (in case of corvette variants less)  make it no less worth ship than 22800.
    M:y point is that could share one hull (corvettes and patrol ships) in longer series. Logistics and costs would be lower.






    PapaDragon wrote:


    See the difference? 22160 is actual long range anti-piracy patrol ship

    True but we both know this is because is equipped and profiled to such mode. Once set with Pantsirs and Clubs (as for Algiers) still should have better autonomy and range than 22800. My just wonders why multiple classes? 22800, 21630, 22160? wouldn't be logistically simpler to set one type os ship?

    unless they want to experiment with 3 types and eventually one prevails?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 04, 2018 2:18 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:.......
    PapaDragon wrote:

    See the difference? 22160 is actual long range anti-piracy patrol ship

    True but we both know this is because is equipped and profiled to such mode. Once set with Pantsirs and Clubs (as for Algiers) still should have better autonomy and range than 22800. My just wonders why multiple classes? 22800, 21630, 22160? wouldn't be logistically simpler to set one type os ship?

    unless they want to experiment with 3 types and eventually one prevails?

    It also costs lot more than 22800 Karakurt, takes much longer to build and requires​ larger crew to operate it.

    They are not even in the same class, this is almost frigate sized vessel while Karakurts are missile ships. That's two ship classes difference.

    Every single warship has primary tasks and secondary tasks. Primary tasks are naval combat ops while secondary tasks are stuff like anti-piracy and special operations.

    This ship was designed to perform those secondary tasks as it's primary tasks and vice versa in order to free up other ships.

    Installing equipment that would turn it into standard warship (Pantsir, sonars, AA VLS cells) would affect range and endurance.

    It is also easier to export because it can be advertised as cheap frigate even though it's not frigate. Light and cheap equipment package helps with keeping price down and customers happy.

    And most importantly for export it looks good. For some it's all that matters, just look at stuff French are selling to Arabs.

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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  Hole on Fri May 04, 2018 11:02 am

    To say they are all the same is like saying a tank and a howitzer are the same, because they both got a gun.

    Also the Stereg. was developed at the beginning of the 00`s. It was another time back than. Its successor Derskii is bigger and totaly different.

    Meanwhile the hull is not a great problem for logistics. The engines, systems, electronics and weapons are. Much of this is already standardised. They didn´t develop a new cruise missile for the Bykow.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Fri May 04, 2018 9:04 pm

    Russians definitely lack standarization. While US navy is building Arleigh Burke destroyers and Ford CVNs, Russians are building 8 different classes from 22160 to Gorshkov.
    Every class uses different engine, while even ships of the same class use different cruise missiles Onyx and Kalibr for no clear reason.

    CIWS is Palash on Gorshkov and Pantsir M on 22160

    AA defense: Buk on Grigorovich, Tor on Neustrashimy and S 350 on Derzky
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri May 04, 2018 9:34 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:...........
    CIWS is Palash on Gorshkov and Pantsir M on 22160...

    Palash was standard CIWS long before Pantsir was navalized. Pantsir is now standard CIWS and has just entered service.

    verkhoturye51 wrote:AA defense: Buk on Grigorovich, Tor on Neustrashimy and S 350 on Derzky

    You are talking about ships with over two decades between each of them.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri May 04, 2018 9:38 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:Russians definitely lack standarization. While US navy is building Arleigh Burke destroyers and Ford CVNs, Russians are building 8 different classes from 22160 to Gorshkov.

    situation is not perfect indeed. Cannot understand why too. But recent 5 years was not so easy to plan long range either. As for US Navy thisnot entirely true, there are 2 classes of littoral ships, couple of classes patrol ships and besides Alright Burke there are Zumwalt and Ticonderoga class




    Every class uses different engine, while even ships of the same class use different cruise missiles Onyx and Kalibr for no clear reason.


    On US ships you have Harpoons, Tomahawks and soon AGM-158C LRASM too. I presume Onix or Calibr depends on mission. They all are in UKSK universal VLS system.



    CIWS is Palash on Gorshkov and Pantsir M on 22160
    AA defense: Buk on Grigorovich, Tor on Neustrashimy and S 350 on Derzky
    [/quote]

    perhaps because when Gorshkov entered service there was no Pantsir M? and 11540 was 80s design?


    Having 22800, 20631 and 22160 eventually also Project 1166.1 and 20385 seems to be waste of resoruces and strain on logistics. Just my personal opinion.
    Gorskhov, 22160 in patrol boat and light corvette /missile boat edition .






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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 10:03 am

    They have enough variety of needs and wants that having a few different types makes sense.

    At least they are now fully multirole so if there is one type that seems to be better than the others they can change their production to focus on one or another to get numbers into service when needed.

    We are finally seeing phased array radar being fitted to give full 360 degree coverage... that is a bigger step forward than seeing the new Pantsir, because the issues with AESA arrays will take longer to sort out that any one air defence system, but once it is sorted it can be scaled to pretty much any sized vessel from Corvette to Cruiser.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 22160 Bykov-class patrol ship

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 05, 2018 10:37 am

    GarryB wrote:
    At least they are now fully multirole so if there is one type that seems to be better than the others they can change their production to focus on one or another to get numbers into service when needed.

    admit it 22160 is a sexey beast. Personally I hope it wins with 22800. As for Pantsir -once it gets 40km range 20km height missiles it makes AAD for little corvette pretty solid.

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