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    Project 949A: Oscar-II

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:21 am

    GarryB wrote:Perfectly smooth skin is not so important for hydrodynamics (moving through water).

    Actually that's quite an accurate observation on your part, case-in-point Sharks are some of the most hydrodynamic efficient fish within Earth oceans, and shark's skin is made of tiny teeth making shark skin like sand paper that actually makes sharks like the Mako Shark more hydrodynamic efficient:

    Speedy sharkskin

    Tiny, toothlike bumps boost sharks’ swiftness




    Slicing through the water at speeds exceeding 45 miles per hour (72 kph), the shortfin mako shark is one of the fastest fish in the sea. A team of Harvard biologists has made a surprising discovery about what feature gives the mako, like all other sharks, its incredible swiftness — its sandpapery skin.

    It may look sleek and smooth, but a shark’s skin is actually rough. That’s because sharkskin is covered with millions of microscopic, toothlike bumps called denticles.  Scientists have long recognized that denticles help reduce drag. Drag is a force in the direction opposite to an animal’s movement. Drag slows an animal down.

    Water is hundreds of times denser than air, and this, in part, explains the greater drag objects moving through water experience compared to objects moving through air. You can experience this difference by waving your hand in the air, and then waving your hand in a tub full of water. Denticles help minimize drag by changing the way water flows over a shark’s body.

    But the new study by Johannes Oeffner and George V. Lauder shows that the rough surface of sharkskin also increases thrust. Thrust is a force in the direction an animal is moving, and it helps swimming and flying animals overcome drag.

    “Sharkskin denticles seem to provide a clever boost,” explains Lauder. This increase in thrust due to skin may help push sharks even more quickly through the water, he and Oeffner say.

    Their experiments show that denticles generate tiny swirls around a shark’s body as it wriggles in the water. This creates a small suction effect — the thrust — that helps drive the fish’s body forward.

    Importantly, the Harvard team’s tests investigated how sharkskin performs when attached to a stiff plate, as well as when attached to a piece of flexible material. The flexible material mimics the actual motion of a shark’s skin — and its millions of denticles — as the fish swims. It was only when studying the flexible sharkskin that the scientists discovered the role of denticles in generating thrust.

    Denticles have other helpful properties, too. Unlike whales, sea turtles and many other large animals that live in the ocean, sharks rarely have barnacles, algae or other sea creatures attached to and living on the surface of their skin. How do sharks stay so clean?

    Scientists suggest that at the microscopic level, denticles make the surface of sharkskin too rough and uneven for other organisms to attach to it. It’s a property some medical device manufacturers have adopted: Medical equipment with a sharkskin-like surface slows or stops bacterial growth, which could help reduce the spread of bacterial infections. That’s an important factor in settings like hospitals and doctors’ offices.

    Sharkskin-like coatings also help to keep boats free of marine algae and other clingy organisms.

    But one thing sharkskin-inspired materials probably don’t do is improve the speed of a human swimmer. In their experiments, the scientists found that sharkskin-like features woven into the high-tech suits worn by competitive swimmers offer the fabric no performance advantage. That doesn’t mean the swimsuits don’t offer swimmers a competitive edge; it just means other aspects of the suits, such as the compression they provide, probably explain their performance.

    https://student.societyforscience.org/article/speedy-sharkskin
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:37 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Perfectly smooth skin is not so important for hydrodynamics (moving through water).

    Actually that's quite an accurate observation on your part, case-in-point Sharks are some of the most hydrodynamic efficient fish within Earth oceans, and shark's skin is made of tiny teeth making shark skin like sand paper that actually makes sharks like the Mako Shark more hydrodynamic efficient:

    Speedy sharkskin

    Tiny, toothlike bumps boost sharks’ swiftness




    Slicing through the water at speeds exceeding 45 miles per hour (72 kph), the shortfin mako shark is one of the fastest fish in the sea. A team of Harvard biologists has made a surprising discovery about what feature gives the mako, like all other sharks, its incredible swiftness — its sandpapery skin.

    It may look sleek and smooth, but a shark’s skin is actually rough. That’s because sharkskin is covered with millions of microscopic, toothlike bumps called denticles.  Scientists have long recognized that denticles help reduce drag. Drag is a force in the direction opposite to an animal’s movement. Drag slows an animal down.

    Water is hundreds of times denser than air, and this, in part, explains the greater drag objects moving through water experience compared to objects moving through air. You can experience this difference by waving your hand in the air, and then waving your hand in a tub full of water. Denticles help minimize drag by changing the way water flows over a shark’s body.

    But the new study by Johannes Oeffner and George V. Lauder shows that the rough surface of sharkskin also increases thrust. Thrust is a force in the direction an animal is moving, and it helps swimming and flying animals overcome drag.

    “Sharkskin denticles seem to provide a clever boost,” explains Lauder. This increase in thrust due to skin may help push sharks even more quickly through the water, he and Oeffner say.

    Their experiments show that denticles generate tiny swirls around a shark’s body as it wriggles in the water. This creates a small suction effect — the thrust — that helps drive the fish’s body forward.

    Importantly, the Harvard team’s tests investigated how sharkskin performs when attached to a stiff plate, as well as when attached to a piece of flexible material. The flexible material mimics the actual motion of a shark’s skin — and its millions of denticles — as the fish swims. It was only when studying the flexible sharkskin that the scientists discovered the role of denticles in generating thrust.

    Denticles have other helpful properties, too. Unlike whales, sea turtles and many other large animals that live in the ocean, sharks rarely have barnacles, algae or other sea creatures attached to and living on the surface of their skin. How do sharks stay so clean?

    Scientists suggest that at the microscopic level, denticles make the surface of sharkskin too rough and uneven for other organisms to attach to it. It’s a property some medical device manufacturers have adopted: Medical equipment with a sharkskin-like surface slows or stops bacterial growth, which could help reduce the spread of bacterial infections. That’s an important factor in settings like hospitals and doctors’ offices.

    Sharkskin-like coatings also help to keep boats free of marine algae and other clingy organisms.

    But one thing sharkskin-inspired materials probably don’t do is improve the speed of a human swimmer. In their experiments, the scientists found that sharkskin-like features woven into the high-tech suits worn by competitive swimmers offer the fabric no performance advantage. That doesn’t mean the swimsuits don’t offer swimmers a competitive edge; it just means other aspects of the suits, such as the compression they provide, probably explain their performance.

    https://student.societyforscience.org/article/speedy-sharkskin

    These are called riblets. Russians have been using them in all kind of aerodynamic and hydrodynamic applications.

    Now after 45 years of the announcements about the Russians' use of artificial riblets in their aeronautical applications, some people from Harvard discover them, but those from Harvard still don't know even the English name for those structure—just like Harvard. Laughing Sad
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:25 pm

    Well Golfers have known about such things for a while... the dimples on a golf ball have the same effect of making the air attach itself to the surface of the ball better.

    A perfectly smooth golf ball the air leaves the surface at the sides so the area of drag the ball generates is the full width of the ball.

    With dimples the air attaches to the surface of the ball and travels around the ball so the area of drag is reduced which means for a given flight speed a ball with dimples will travel further because it has less drag and will be slowed down less by the air. A bit like setting a world speed sprint record on a treadmill... without having to push air out of your way as you run because you are not moving forward it is much easier to run at very high speed on a treadmill.


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    TR1

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:01 pm



    Orel in dock.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:50 am

    WoW  thumbsup 

    - K-442 "Chelyabinsk"
    - "Tver" (Head 649) or "Omsk" (Head 651)



    Far East Plant "Zvezda": a contract to upgrade two more "Ante"
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    Mike E

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Mike E on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:33 am

    Man, those Oscars really are beauties!

    Does any one know what will replace them? They were specifically built to destroy carrier groups, and Russia doesn't seem to have a replacement in the works. I guess they could do to a Borei what the US did to the "Tomahawk Ohios".
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:56 am

    Project 885 has 32 vertical tubes, and as such is the multirole replacement for both 949As and 971s.
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:57 am

    Viktor wrote:WoW  thumbsup 

    - K-442 "Chelyabinsk"
    - "Tver" (Head 649) or "Omsk" (Head 651)



    Far East Plant "Zvezda": a contract to upgrade two more "Ante"

    The real question is how many years will Zvezda miss the deadlines by. x
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:57 am

    TR1 wrote:Project 885 has 32 vertical tubes, and as such is the multirole replacement for both 949As and 971s.

    replacing Granit with Oniks.. hmm honestly i found it kinda difficult to comprehend  dunno
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:01 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Project 885 has 32 vertical tubes, and as such is the multirole replacement for both 949As and 971s.

    replacing Granit with Oniks.. hmm honestly i found it kinda difficult to comprehend  dunno

    Not just Onix, but Onix + Kalibr.
    Plus without the huge Granit size the rest of your submarine is not compromised, and can act as an attack boat, not just a stand-off missile battery.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:29 am

    Onyx is smaller and lighter than Granit, but it is also faster and has a comparable range.

    Onyx can hit targets at 500km and while there were reports Granit could hit targets at 700km they were not 100% confirmed.

    The two main differences are propulsion... with granit using turbojets and Onyx using ramjets, and warhead with granit carrying a 750kg HE payload and Onyx carrying something like 500kgs.

    The real change will come with scramjet technology where Zirconium will be of similar weight to Onyx... ie about 3.5 tons or 2.5 tons in the air launched model but with much higher speed and therefore also range... double in both cases.

    the critical thing is that with Onyx and Zirconium being in the 2-3 ton range with a 8-9m long missile they are compatible with the UKSK vertical launch bins being fitted to every ship and sub in the Russian fleet.

    Now instead of a few Oscars and Kirovs and Kuznetsovs carrying heavy supersonic anti ship missiles... soon every ship in the fleet will be able to carry 8 or more.


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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:Onyx is smaller and lighter than Granit, but it is also faster and has a comparable range.

    Onyx can hit targets at 500km and while there were reports Granit could hit targets at 700km they were not 100% confirmed.

    The two main differences are propulsion... with granit using turbojets and Onyx using ramjets, and warhead with granit carrying a 750kg HE payload and Onyx carrying something like 500kgs.

    The real change will come with scramjet technology where Zirconium will be of similar weight to Onyx... ie about 3.5 tons or 2.5 tons in the air launched model but with much higher speed and therefore also range... double in both cases.

    the critical thing is that with Onyx and Zirconium being in the 2-3 ton range with a 8-9m long missile they are compatible with the UKSK vertical launch bins being fitted to every ship and sub in the Russian fleet.

    Now instead of a few Oscars and Kirovs and Kuznetsovs carrying heavy supersonic anti ship missiles... soon every ship in the fleet will be able to carry 8 or more.

    You keep on copy-and-pasting this "content" over and over? How many times have you copy-and-pasted this "content" on this forum? As I have explained before, what you have said is mostly incorrect. The only aspects that are correct are trivial and have nothing to do with this matter.


    Some food for thought:

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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:56 pm

    TR1 wrote:The real question is how many years will Zvezda miss the deadlines by. x

    First and the most important step is the will and finance to modernize them ... than all the rest
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:41 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Onyx is smaller and lighter than Granit, but it is also faster and has a comparable range.

    Onyx can hit targets at 500km and while there were reports Granit could hit targets at 700km they were not 100% confirmed.

    The two main differences are propulsion... with granit using turbojets and Onyx using ramjets, and warhead with granit carrying a 750kg HE payload and Onyx carrying something like 500kgs.

    The real change will come with scramjet technology where Zirconium will be of similar weight to Onyx... ie about 3.5 tons or 2.5 tons in the air launched model but with much higher speed and therefore also range... double in both cases.

    the critical thing is that with Onyx and Zirconium being in the 2-3 ton range with a 8-9m long missile they are compatible with the UKSK vertical launch bins being fitted to every ship and sub in the Russian fleet.

    Now instead of a few Oscars and Kirovs and Kuznetsovs carrying heavy supersonic anti ship missiles... soon every ship in the fleet will be able to carry 8 or more.

    You keep on copy-and-pasting this "content" over and over? How many times have you copy-and-pasted this "content" on this forum? As I have explained before, what you have said is mostly incorrect. The only aspects that are correct are trivial and have nothing to do with this matter.


    Some food for thought:


    What is that picture supposed to prove? Spell it out for us please.

    It is one of those meaningless charts with specs and photos pulled out of nowhere (Yakhont/Onix with 1300km range) and based on empty speculation on the new destroyers weaponry.

    This is what we call "hotelki" in Russia - the toys the mil wants. Reality will be more muted.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:25 pm

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    George1

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:59 pm

    On the nuclear submarine "Irkutsk", modernization to be completed by the end of 2017, it is planned to establish a system of air regeneration "Astra-35-2M," the ship's control system "steel-949AM" and secret product "3P-14PN-949AM".

    http://flot.com/2014/179419/

    chicken

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  chicken on Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:35 am

    TR1 wrote:

    What is that picture supposed to prove? Spell it out for us please.

    It is one of those meaningless charts with specs and photos pulled out of nowhere (Yakhont/Onix with 1300km range) and based on empty speculation on the new destroyers weaponry.

    This is what we call "hotelki" in Russia - the toys the mil wants. Reality will be more muted.

    I don't know Russian so probably the translation got muddled or the ones interviewed are not giving out concrete facts, but what is your take on http://ria.ru/interview/20141215/1037925421.html?

    Also, a different subject http://ria.ru/interview/20141208/1037115811.html.

    If true, probably the UKSK launched version has an extra booster that helps it fly higher faster therefore giving it longer range than when launched through torpedo tubes?

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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:12 pm

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:20 pm

    Tver going in for a modernization thumbsup

    Modernization SSGN "Tver" Project 949AM
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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  Viktor on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:02 pm

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    max steel

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  max steel on Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:15 pm

    crazy ivan What a Face

    Nuclear submarine catches fire at Russian shipyard



    A fire has broken out on a Russian nuclear submarine undergoing repair work at a shipyard in Severodvinsk. The cause of the fire is believed to be related to welding work.

    The incident occurred at the Zvezdochka shipyard, in the Arkhangelsk region in northern Russia.

    “The fire started in the ninth section of the sub close to the stern," a spokesman for the shipyard, Evgeny Gladyshev, told RIA Novosti. “All the personnel left the submarine and fire brigades are currently dousing the flames.”

    The fire has been localized after firefighters decided to submerge the burning submarine in water to put off the flames.

    The United Shipbuilding Company said nobody was hurt in the fire.


    A similar blaze in 2011 nearly led to a nuclear disaster as a blaze engulfed a nuclear-powered submarine carrying atomic weapons, a leading Russian magazine reported months after the blaze, contradicting official assurances that it was not armed. pirat



    Russia has a poor transport safety record. A trawler sank in icy seas off Russia's far eastern Kamchatka peninsula last week, killing at least 56 of the 132 crew members.

    In August 2000, during his first term as president, Vladimir Putin faced criticism for not acting quickly over the sinking of a nuclear-powered submarine on which all 118 people aboard died.
    Cool

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/arts_n_ideas/news/article/nuclear-submarine-catches-fire-at-russian-shipyard-reports-say/518735.html
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:43 pm

    Moscow times is trash. The trawler had nothing to do with Russian authorities as it was a private vessel and they breeched safety measures. Not to mention it has nothing to do with subs.

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/787779

    The sub will now probably take longer to repair due to this. The layers between the hull will get damage but the hull isnt breached. So they will have to now strip the areas that were breached and repair it, causing more money and time involved.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:48 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/787813

    Hopefully that the welder simply made a mistake or that it was a freak accident. If it is the case, hopefully the welder will keep his job.
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    max steel

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  max steel on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:27 pm

    I know Moscow Times is being run by Finnish media group Sanoma . I deliberately shared it so that others must know how they write provocative trash .

    Acc to me :

    There should be internal fire suppression systems, but since it was in dock and uncrewed, they were not operable, and no trained crew was there to isolate and contain it. Shipyard workers are notorious for running away and calling the fire brigades. This shows serious sloppy management. A Naval Fire Brigade trained for this should have been 5 minutes away at the shipyard. Obviously not.  
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Project 949A: Oscar-II

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:33 pm

    We dont have one for a major company that has a lpt of dangerous and flammable goods but most know how to use a fire extinguisher. We dont really know what they have at this shipyard. Seems that the crew are doing what they can and partially flooded the area of the fire. I imagine now they are assessing the damage to see how much it will cost now to repair it.

    Seeing as how Yasen is costing more than a borei ssbm sub, these oscars are gonna have to fill the roll till more yasens are made or something else. I imagine the sub will be out of service an additional year. The fire didnt breach the hull but did catch in the inbetween rubber layers so new material for outside of hull will need to be applied to the damage spots. Probably very costly material.


    Last edited by sepheronx on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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