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Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM):

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Mindstorm

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Post  Mindstorm on Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:07 pm

missile, Kh-59MK2 according to available information, is almost entirely a new development and is essentially an analog of the famous western KR same class AGM-158 JASSM, Scalp EG / Storm Shadow and Taurus.


Yes it is for sure in the same class and show very similar concept of operation with those foreign cruise missiles.

Someone, anyhow, should remind that all those three weapons presented for the first time and in spotlight at МАКС-2015 in the КТРВ stand (in theirs exportable version : "Х-59МК2", "Гром-Э1" and "Гром-Э2") boast a particular and very important feature that distinguish markedly theirs design : those weapons are all compatible with internal weapon bay of ПАК ФА

Not even one western cruise missile, still at today, is compatible with internal carriage ,both in F-22 and F-35, a factor that not only reduce significantly the effective combat range of the delivering aircraft ,but render attacks to critical enemy installations in the deep of enemy territory much more difficult, if not impossible, because the radar footprint of enemy air defenses and interceptors will be not "reduced" in any way (obviously is necessary to add at what just said that the significantly higher cruise speed that ПАК ФА will be capable to maintain ,in comparison to F-35, in similar strike missions will furtherly reduce the effective SAM/aircraft interception's footprint).


For what concern "Гром-Э1" and "Гром-Э2", i have noticed that several debates has been arisen by those weapons ; in particular several people fail to identify what feature of those weapons induce the makers at ГНПЦ «Звезда-Стрела to show so much pride for the design.



The element in question is represented by the, at now, unparalleled fraction of warhead's weight on the overall weapon mass.

"Гром-Э1" and "Гром-Э2"are export versions (MTCR compliant) of air to ground weapons purposely conceived for the specific dimensions of ПАК ФА weapon bays and altitude and speed of delivery from this Platform;  them are in the same class of US JSOW and JSOW-ER (the unique western products in the class to be qualified for internal carriage on F-35).

Just for comparison a JSOWs (unpowered version) that in future will be mounted in the internal bays of F-35 have a warhead weight of maximum 500 lb (about 226 kg), a "Гром-Э2" (unpowered version ) at similar weapon weight will boast a warhead mass almost double of that !

In substance a single ПАК ФА armed with a similar weapon will be capable to deliver on a target destructive power (at significantly expanded delivery range, thanks to the higher speed of the carrying aircraft and the weapon's aerodynamic layout optimized for supersonic release and...propulsion)  almost equal to that delivered by two F-35 with its JSOWs .  

The powered version -Гром-Э1- has ,still at today, not a western equivalent in F-22/F-35 internal weapon's selection.
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Post  Book. on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:58 am

MAKS 2015: KRTV adds IR seeker to Kh-58UShK anti-radiation missile
Nikolai Novichkov, Moscow - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
27 August 2015


More Here: http://www.janes.com/article/53889/maks-2015-krtv-adds-ir-seeker-to-kh-58ushk-anti-radiation-missile

Russia's Tactical Missiles Corporation (KTRV) company demonstrated for the first time at the MAKS 2015 air show its upgraded version of the Kh-58UShK anti-radiation missile featuring an imaging infrared (IIR) channel.

This missile intended to be integrated into the internal weapons bays of Russia's new Sukhoi PAK FA (T-50) fighter aircraft.

According to KTRV's general director Boris Obnosov, equipping the Kh-58UShK anti-radiation missile control system with a thermal imaging channel enables it to strike radars operating in pulse mode and turning off when the missile is in its terminal phase.

The Kh-58UShK and Kh-58UShK IIR missiles can be mounted externally on a range of aircraft (using an AKU-58-type pylon) such as the MiG-35, Su-30MK, Su-34 and Su-35, or as the UShK variants of the Kh-58 have folding wings they can be stored in an internal weapons bay (like on the PAK FA) using a UVKU-50-type launcher.

The missile is designed to both hit pre-programmed radar targets and targets detected by the target designation system of the aircraft. The new Kh-58UShK IIR missile has an innovative broadband passive radar seeker working in the 1.2-11 GHz frequency range to seek out enemy radars.

The upgraded antiradar missile weighs 650 kg, is 4.19 m long, has a wingspan of 0.8 m, and a body diameter of 0.38 m. With its wings folded the missile's cross section is 0.4x0.4 m. The missile has a range of up to 245 km, is designed to hit within a radius of 10 m of its target and has a 149 kg warhead.

The Kh-58UShK IIR missile was developed by the Raduga (Rainbow) state design bureau.

Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 3 21zYf
Russian Tactical Missiles Corporation unveiled an upgraded version of its new Kh-58UShK antiradar missile with an IIR channel.
The IIR seeker is visible at the base of the nose cone. Source: Nikolai Novichkov
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Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:05 pm

Book. wrote:

Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 3 21zYf
Russian Tactical Missiles Corporation unveiled an upgraded version of its new Kh-58UShK antiradar missile with an IIR channel.
The IIR seeker is visible at the base of the nose cone. Source: Nikolai Novichkov

Hmm so basically this is similar as German "Armiger"

Im curious on why Russian choose IR instead of active mmwave radar like one in latest Harm.
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Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:48 am

Probably because they don't want to alert the target it is being attacked?

IIR is passive and can be used against a fairly wide variety of targets, whereas MMW radar is effective against a more limited range of targets... especially stationary ones.

Ground based radar remains hot long after it is turned off...

BTW the latest HARM is supposed to physically locate the target so even if it turns off it can still hit the target. AFAIK the AS-11 had that capability in its earliest versions, though it restricted its use to aircraft that were dedicated SEAD aircraft...
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Post  Flyboy77 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:46 am

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Post  calripson on Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:34 pm

What is the stage of Russian ramjet powered air to air missiles a la the Meteor ?
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Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:08 am

I rather suspect they wont bother with ramjet powered AAMs and will likely instead be developing scramjet powered AAMs.

they already have the Kh-31 and family, and of course the SA-6 family of missiles with combined rocket/ramjet propulsion in operational service so the extended time it has taken to develop a ramjet powered AAM suggests they are aiming higher than just a combined rocket ramjet like the Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos and Moskit/Sunburn families of missile.

Of course the R-37M revealed as the RVV-BD with a flight range of over 200km suggests that for the moment the gap of long range AAM is filled means they can take the extra time to get it right... a scramjet powered AAM could be lofted to high altitude and fly at extreme speeds for very long distances... much easier to design than a scramjet powered high speed low flying anti ship missile (AShM).
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Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:36 pm

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The test version of the aircraft missile BrahMos will begin in November
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Post  Werewolf on Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:51 pm

Club/kalibr variant of Cruise Missile is Navator can be fired from Su-35,Su-27 and MiG-29/35.

http://www.missiles.ru/3m-14ae.htm
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Post  medo on Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:45 pm

Werewolf wrote:Club/kalibr variant of Cruise Missile is Navator can be fired from Su-35,Su-27 and MiG-29/35.

http://www.missiles.ru/3m-14ae.htm

Excellent, but I think it will be the main armament of Su-34 and Su-30SM. I'm sure those 300 km range are meant for export customers as domestic missiles have 600 km range for anti-ship missiles and 1500 km range for land attack cruise missiles.
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Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:18 pm

medo wrote:
Werewolf wrote:Club/kalibr variant of Cruise Missile is Navator can be fired from Su-35,Su-27 and MiG-29/35.

http://www.missiles.ru/3m-14ae.htm

Excellent, but I think it will be the main armament of Su-34 and Su-30SM. I'm sure those 300 km range are meant for export customers as domestic missiles have 600 km range for anti-ship missiles and 1500 km range for land attack cruise missiles.

Subsonic LACM has a 2,600 km range.
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Post  Werewolf on Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:36 pm

Domestic versions are never disclosed, they are always secret especially for tactical weaponary or substitute for tactical purposed weapons deployment.
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Post  Vann7 on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:16 am

The bombs used by Russia were heavy fragmentation area bombs.. I find funny how
the western zombies are so easy to believe Russia airforce do not have the capabilities
to use precision weapons.. Is the propaganda of the west ,what people needs to shut it down..

Russia have precision weapons and even more precise that the ones NATO have.

But Russia is not going to spend like Americans 1 TRillion dollars in the war.. of IRAQ
using always state of the art their latest missiles..   So if you have plans to go to a war
and try to not spend as much as possible  then Russia will use a lot conventional cheap weapons
whenever possible.  But as told.. RUssia have missiles the best in the world.. even superior than
the ones NATO have..

take a look for example at brahmos misisle.. no one in NATO ,neither ISrael
have anything close to this..

Super sonic cruise missiles with with direct precision up to 300km away and smart guidance
and self defense capabilities.



And Russia have lazer precision Artillery.. again NATO have nothing like this in service.
can target tanks 30km away on the motion with precision..  So the believe that Russia
airforce needs "something from the west".. when since soviet times they have lazer precision weapons and hypersonic weapons is non sense.  

Of course Russia have high precision weapons but you don't use those at all times or will
go bankrupt before a week. fragmentations heavy bombs ,can do the job.. specially in non civilian zones.

brahmos cruise missiles cost about 2 million dollars each.. you cannot use those weapons
all the times.. If Russia have any sanity it will use cheap bombs as much as possible.. specially
to target large area zones that do not require precision.

The SU-34 can use this one

KH-59  inertial guidance (then TV guidance), millimeter wave active radar seeker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-59

This are not "new" weapons.. many of this cutting edge precision missiles Russia have them
since soviet times..  Shocked


or this one.. with Laser, active radar, IR, satellite,  guidance.

Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 3 600px-Kh-38_in_maks2009

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-38

SU-34 can also use.. KAB-500L   500lb lazer guide bomb..

Kh-25ML =Laser guidance, passive radar, TV guidance, IIR, Satellite guidance, active radar homing depending on variant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-25

and those are just few examples of the precision missiles that Russia can export..
but there are custom bombs that also Russia have and do not sell.. and is for exclusive use
of Russia federation.

Another lazer guidance bomb that Russia have since the 80s.. that SU-24 can use too..

Kh-29  = : semi-active laser /tv guidance /active homing ,IR..

Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 3 600px-Kh-29L_%281%29

So there is nothing new.. here.. Russia since the cold war in the 80s have high precision weapons.. this is decades old technology but very precise and effective since soviet times..

naturally because war is not cheap.. and Russia will be paid ZERO.. nothing..not a single cent
for their war against ISIS.. will have to finance all with their own budget in moments that Russia is under economic sanctions from west  . Then it makes perfect logical sense that Russia
try to use as much as possible soviet hardware ,even if possible free fall bombs from world war 1.. a bomb is a bomb. and to target jihadist running in the desert you don't need much technology.. (why Su-24 used) and non guided fragmentationsoviet bombs.. as long the pilots are skilled and intelligence good of terrorist locations.. then non guided bombs can be as effective as any lazer weapon.. and cost a lot less. In the end even one bullet or a fragment of a rock is all u need to kill a terrorist. Had Syria did not used what the west calls "barrel bombs" ,that is home made thermobaric bombs..dropped from mi-8 hellicopters.. it will have been impossible for Syria to fight for 4 years and hold in the war.

You only need to look what technology many of the terrorist use to capture military bases..
2-3 suicide bomber trucks filled with 1 ton of tnt.. and a wave of jihadist charging later with
ak-47 and rocket grenades.  


Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:06 am; edited 4 times in total
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Post  sepheronx on Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:11 am

Vann7 wrote:The bombs used by Russia were heavy fragmentation area bombs.. I find funny how
the western zombies are so easy to believe Russia airforce do not have the capabilities
to use precision weapons.. Is the propaganda of the west ,what people needs to shut it down..

Russia have precision weapons and even more precise that the ones NATO have.

But Russia is not going to spend like Americans 1 TRillion dollars in the war.. of IRAQ
using always state of the art their latest missiles..   So if you have plans to go to a war
and try to not spend as much as possible  then Russia will use a lot conventional cheap weapons
whenever possible.  But as told.. RUssia have missiles the best in the world.. even superior than
the ones NATO have..

take a look for example at brahmos misisle.. no one in NATO ,neither ISrael
have anything close to this..

Super sonic cruise missiles with with direct precision up to 300km away and smart guidance
and self defense capabilities.



And Russia have lazer precision Artillery.. again NATO have nothing like this in service.
can target tanks 30km away on the motion with precision..  So the believe that Russia
airforce needs "something from the west".. when since soviet times they have lazer precision weapons and hypersonic weapons is non sense.  

Of course Russia have high precision weapons but you don't use those at all times or will
go bankrupt before a week. fragmentations heavy bombs ,can do the job.. specially in non civilian zones.

brahmos cruise missiles cost about 2 million dollars each.. you cannot use those weapons
all the times.. If Russia have any sanity it will use cheap bombs as much as possible.. specially
to target large area zones that do not require precision.

The SU-34 can use this one

KH-59  inertial guidance (then TV guidance), millimeter wave active radar seeker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-59

This are not "new" weapons.. many of this cutting edge precision missiles Russia have them
since soviet times..  Shocked


or this one.. with Laser, active radar, IR, satellite,  guidance.

Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 3 600px-Kh-38_in_maks2009

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-38

SU-34 can also use.. KAB-500L   500lb lazer guide bomb..

Kh-25ML =Laser guidance, passive radar, TV guidance, IIR, Satellite guidance, active radar homing depending on variant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-25

and those are just few examples of the precision missiles that Russia can export..
but there are custom bombs that also Russia have and do not sell.. and is for exclusive use
of Russia federation.

Another lazer guidance bomb that Russia have since the 80s.. that SU-24 can use too..

Kh-29  = : semi-active laser /tv guidance /active homing ,IR..

Russian Tactical Air-to-Surface Missiles (ASM): - Page 3 600px-Kh-29L_%281%29

So there is nothing new.. here.. Russia since the cold war in the 80s have high precision weapons.. this is decades old technology but very precise and effective since soviet times..

naturally because war is not cheap.. and Russia will be paid ZERO.. nothing..not a single cent
for their war against ISIS.. will have to finance all with their own budget in moments that Russia is under economic sanctions from west  . Then it makes perfect logical sense that Russia
try to use as much as possible soviet hardware ,even if possible free fall bombs from world war 1.. a bomb is a bomb. and to target jihadist running in the desert you don't need much technology.. (why Su-24 used) and non guided fragmentationsoviet bombs.. as long the pilots are skilled and intelligence good of terrorist locations.. then non guided bombs can be as effective as any lazer weapon.. and cost a lot less. In the end even one bullet or a fragment of a rock is all u need to kill a terrorist. Had Syria did not used what the west calls "barrel bombs" ,that is home made thermobaric bombs..dropped from mi-8 hellicopters.. it will have been impossible for Syria to fight for 4 years and hold in the war.

You only need to look what technology many of the terrorist use to capture military bases..
2-3 suicide bomber trucks filled with 1 ton of tnt.. and a wave of jihadist charging later with
ak-47 and rocket grenades.  

The purpose of the unguided bombs are multitude of reasons.

1) Russia has a ridiculous amount of dumb bombs in its arsenal, it would be a waste to use more expensive guided bombs.

2) Those Su-24's are most likely equipped with Gefast & T upgrade which greatly increases the accuracy of using dumb bombs.

3) We have now seen evidence thanks to pictures that those bombings were not simply some "bombing of an open field" but an actual direct hit on what appeared to be a bunker emplacement. Quite accurately. So the cost was reduced greatly.

4) I imagine there is guided munitions specifically for movement targets. But since they are bombing key positions of the terrorists, I think it is safe to assume that the other type of bombings will be dealt with by Syria.
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Post  sepheronx on Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:49 am

Does anyone have more info and pictures of the Gefast & T upgrade for Su-24's and Su-25's? I would like to have more details as all the details previously were on mp.net and well, that is gone now.
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Post  George1 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:27 pm

Russian Aviation in Syria Smashes ISIL With Kh-29L Air-to-Surface Missile

The Kh-29L air-to-surface missile used by Russian planes against ISIL in Syria is a weapon that strikes targets with a precision less than two meters, give or take.

LATAKIA (Sputnik) — The Russian air group in Syria is using a Kh-29L air-to-surface missile to conduct airstrikes against the Islamic State militants, the Russian military said Sunday.

"A Kh-29L surface-to-air missile is equipped with a semi-active laser guidance system. When the launch is conducted, a pilot illuminates a target with a laser sight. At the same time an aircraft can continue the flight," Aerospace Forces spokesman Col. Igor Klimov said.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151004/1027991355/russian-aviation-syria-kh-29l-missile.html#ixzz3nbLYsKIm
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Post  nastle77 on Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:24 pm

http://armamentresearch.com/kh-29-air-to-surface-missile-employed-in-unguided-surface-to-surface-role-in-libya/
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Post  x_54_u43 on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:28 pm

sepheronx wrote:Does anyone have more info and pictures of the Gefast & T upgrade for Su-24's and Su-25's?  I would like to have more details as all the details previously were on mp.net and well, that is gone now.

If you check my thread, I have the whole brochure for them.
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Post  jhelb on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:45 pm

x_54_u43 wrote:If you check my thread, I have the whole brochure for them.

Which thread? Thanx.
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Post  x_54_u43 on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:47 pm

http://www.russiadefence.net/t4534-russian-ground-forces-technology-and-interesting-photos

Page 4, but there is plenty of interesting stuff in the first three pages.
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Post  x_54_u43 on Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:00 am

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Post  x_54_u43 on Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:01 am

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Post  George1 on Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:01 am

Kh-59??
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Post  Werewolf on Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:30 am

Interesting looking seeker.

Can you explain the exact seeker and how it works?
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Post  George1 on Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:30 am

Last photos are of Kh-59M.
The nose-mounted TV-sensor relays target area imagery to the launch airborne platform and the pilot selects the impact point using the aircraft-mounted APK-9ME pod.

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