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    Russian Navy: Status & News #1

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    runaway
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  runaway on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:35 pm

    MEDIUM-SIZE AIRCRAFT CARRIERS (HEAVY AIRCRAFT-CARRYING CRUISERS)
    On this subject we speak only about plans for the future. In 2012 Sevmash shipyard will kick off modernization of Northern Fleet's medium-size aircraft carrier (heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser) Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov. The upgraded ship will be launched in 2017. Modernization program implies total replacement of weapons and radioelectronics. The carrier's air group is expected to be increased, too. Presently, the ship is capable to accommodate 26 deck-based fighters Su-33 and MiG-29K, and 24 antisubmarine helicopters – eighteen Ka-27 or Ka-29, two Ka-27PS and four Ka-31. In the course of modernization, the carrier will be armed with shipborne version of SAM system Pantsir.


    CRUISERS

    Admiral Nakhimov. RusNavy.com All currently laid up Orlan class nuclear-powered missile cruisers (Project 11442) will be re-commissioned into the Navy till 2020. Cruisers Admiral Nakhimov, Admiral Lazarev, and Admiral Ushakov will join Russian Navy again after modernization within 10 years. Upgraded like Petr Veliky, those ships will constitute the core of Russian Navy.


    DESTROYERS
    Russia has started development of a new generation destroyer. It is planned to complete project design of the stealth ship within the next 30 months. That is going to be a multipurpose destroyer armed with advanced missile and artillery weapon systems.

    In April 2010 Severnaya Verf shipyard completed modernization of Project 1155 destroyer Vice Admiral Kulakov. Lead ship if the project had undergone general modernization and started sea trials in mid-April. Modernization works included replacement of arms systems and life support systems.

    Presently, Russian Navy has seven Project 1155 destroyers in inventory, including Admiral Tributs, Marshal Shaposhnikov, Severomorsk, Admiral Levchenko, Admiral Vinogradov, Admiral Kharlamov, Admiral Panteleev, and one destroyer build under upgraded project 11551 – Admiral Chabanenko.

    Besides, there are 7 destroyers built under Project 956 Sarych – Burnyi, Bystryi, Bezboyaznennyi, Bezuderzhnyi, Bespokoinyi, Nastoichivyi, and Besstrashnyi.


    FRIGATES
    In October 2010 Severnaya Verf shipyard will launch the lead ship of Project 22350 frigate Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov which will be commissioned in 2011. The first serial frigate of the project – Admiral Flota Kasatonov – is under construction at Severnaya Verf. The frigate is planned to join Russian Navy in 2012.


    CORVETTES

    Stereguschiy. prospekta.net.ru First serial corvette of Project 20380 – Soobrazitelny – was launched on March 31 at Severnaya Verf. Lead ship of this project, corvette Stereguschiy was commissioned into Baltic Fleet in October 2008. Navy command appraises the need of corvette class ships as 30. Soobrazitelny is the first serial ship of the project and was built just in time specified by the orderer.

    Three other corvettes of this project are in various stages of completeness at Severnaya Verf shipyard – Storozhevoi, Boiky, and Stoiky. Sea trials of corvette Soobrazitelny are scheduled in October-December 2010.

    According to Kommersant, soon Russian defense ministry will issue a tender for a project of new prospective corvette which will shift Project 20380 corvettes.



    Now thats all good news. The Kirovs are awesome ships, togehter with Mistrals they will certainly give the Japanese a scare in the pacific. The Kurils will be well defended.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:45 pm

    An upgrade to standardise equipment and sensors and weapons will greatly improve the older vessels getting upgrades.

    Even when it first sailed the Kirov class vessels carried hundreds of missiles of all types... I wonder if they will fit the new 152mm naval guns they are working on to it?
    The vessel was already fitted with vertical launchers for long range SAMs, long range anti ship missiles, and short range SAMs, so fitting the universal launchers they have developed should make the vessels much more flexible and powerful.
    They already were packed with electronics to act as carrier group leaders, but with modern electronics and sensors they will be even more capable and powerful.
    I hope they go for nuclear propulsion for the Kuznetsov and the Kirovs, some new standardised powerplant they can also use on any later carriers they might develop. I also hope they skip the steam cats and go for EM cats to AWACS aircraft for the Kuznetsov... if they were building a new rifle for the first time they wouldn't start by making a musket, so why waste effort working on steam when EM offers more benefits... including potential promise in developing EM gun technology too.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:00 am

    @ EM Guns
    you are thinking way long ahead

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:25 am

    Not that far really.

    Both the Soviets and the US did a lot of work on EM guns, or gauss guns, or coil guns.

    A nuclear powered cruiser would have plenty of electricity to spare, pumping a large amount of volts through a coil on a gun barrel to generate an enormous magnetic field and then creating a propellent that created a hot plasma that was ionised and could be accelerated down the barrel by a large magnetic field to increase muzzle velocity to enormous levels is not impossible, I have read the US Navy is getting pretty good results with their work on this.

    If the Russians want a state of the art military then they need to invest in these sorts of technologies.

    The technology is completely transferable from mag lev trains to electric tanks and new guns of all sizes... starting from the very large but certainly effecting small arms design in 10 years time.

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    New Destroyer Stealth type

    Post  runaway on Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:36 am

    "Russia has begun developing a new-generation destroyer for its Navy, which will be built using stealth technology, a source from the defense industry told Interfax-AVN on Thursday.

    “Research is being done now to determine the image of a new offshore maritime zone vessel, and technical documents for the project are being drawn up. This process will last about 30 months,” the source said.

    The future warship will be multifunctional, which will determine the choice of weapons for it, he said.

    “The destroyer will have a missile weapon system using universal vertical launchers to fire high-precision missiles at ground, surface, and underwater targets. The ship’s air defense will be provided by short, middle, and long-range anti-aircraft missiles,” the expert said.

    The destroyer’s artillery systems will also be universal and will be capable of firing high-precision guided projectiles at coastal and marine targets, he said.

    The vessel’s multifunctionality will also affect its electronic equipment, the expert said. “The destroyer will be equipped with a universal target detection and designation system, electronic warfare systems, and hydro-acoustic equipment to detect submarines, mines, and underwater sabotage groups,” he said.

    One of the features of the new destroyer will be a high level of environmental security, which so far is not a characteristic of Russian warships, he said."


    As this news is nearly a year old, i dont suppose there are any drawings or graphics of it?
    Presently it takes russia 3-4 years to build a frigate, how long would it take to build a larger Destroyer?

    The need for cutting production time and make room for new hull assembly is very high.
    To replace the Udaloy and Sovremneny classes, they need to build 14 new destroyers. And i dont see that is possibly in a 10 year period. Besides, frigates and corvettes need replacemnt too. Not to talk about Criusers and the build time for those...

    Nonethenless, i look forward to new info of the new Destroyer, i suppose it will bring a new look to the russian navy, a very needed one.




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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:56 pm

    Their current actions seem to suggest they are going for standardisation, which is an enormous step forward for them.

    They are also looking at overhauling older vessels for the larger hulled vessels in their fleet, which if it involves the new standardised weapons and sensors then should be a significant improvement without needing to expand their shipyard capacity too quickly.

    And thirdly they seem to be making frigates and corvettes... the former for export as well as domestic use, with brand new frigate design on hold they seem to be making modified Talwars that they are building for India.

    Eventually they will need new designs at all levels but right now they need new smaller vessels, so I agree with their direction but think their progress could be better... however I don't think things will be fixed overnight and throwing money at it is not a solution because we don't want them to expect their problems get solved with money.

    This isn't the cold war so expansion isn't urgent, but modernisation is.

    http://spkb.air.spb.ru/en/offers/warships/21956/

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  runaway on Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:15 pm

    Thanks Gary, the new Destroyer seems interesting, but not so frightening as the older ships Rolling Eyes

    Yes, standardisation is really necerssary and seems to be on the way. Also modernisation in stepping up, good.

    But i guess we`ll have to wait 4-7 years to see the new Destroyer in water. In the meantime, we can follow the launches of new subs, frigates and corvettes, and possible the return of one or two more Kirovs.
    Talking of Kirovs, i saw a picture of the Kirov as a rusty hulk, and i doubt very much it will ever be refitted and modernized.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:04 am

    Thanks Gary, the new Destroyer seems interesting, but not so frightening as the older ships

    I must admit I like the cluttered decks with sensors and weapons covering every square inch of the older vessels too. Embarassed

    But making a completely new ship hull design for every purpose made the ship optimised for the role but also made the vessel a little limited when not operating with other vessels and was also expensive.

    With modern smaller, more capable weapons the chance to make smaller vessels multirole with weapons and sensors they might look bare but they will certainly be more flexible and capable than those before them.

    Talking of Kirovs, i saw a picture of the Kirov as a rusty hulk, and i doubt very much it will ever be refitted and modernized.

    Just a bit of surface rust me thinks.

    I think there was a thread on Kirovs overhauls already, but these are magnificent vessels that I would love to see in service again. The original vessels were full of electronics so the electronic upgrade should free up a lot of space and at the same time greatly improve capabilities and performance. It was designed from the outset to have a reduced radar signature and I have talked to British Navy guys who said the best way to track a Kirov was to detect its wake because its radar signature suggests a much smaller vessel.
    It was also the first vessel to have large scale use of vertical launch missile systems... which of course improved its stealth level.

    If you look at the armament... with missiles it had 20 Granit anti ship missiles, 14 Silex anti ship/anti sub missiles, 96 SA-N-6 long range SAMs, 44 OSA point defence SAMs (replaced in later boats by 192 Klintok (TOR) point defence SAMs) 2 RBU-1000 ASW rocket launchers, 2x RBU-12000 (Udav-1) ASW rocket launchers, 2x AK-100 100 mm/L60 DP guns, 10 533 mm ASW/ASuW torpedo tubes, Type 53 torpedo or SS-N-15 ASW missile, 8x AK-630 gatling 30 mm/L60 PD guns.

    So 20 anti ship missiles and 14 anti sub missiles that could also be used against soft ship targets, and 140 SAMs.

    The question is do you keep the large AShM... perhaps a vertical launch Vulkan? Or by 2020 would you prefer a hypersonic Brahmos II? By fitting USUK bins for anti ship use you can use Brahmos or Oniks or two types of Club missile for anti ship use and Kh-101/102 or Club for land attack use, or an anti sub missile in the Club family too.
    More importantly the new SAM can quadruple the number of missiles without increasing size or weight and all are ready to launch without the complication of below deck missile handling loading equipment etc.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  runaway on Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:12 pm

    GarryB wrote:Just a bit of surface rust me thinks.

    And a bit of radioactiveness since the accident.

    Still, the Kirov must be a stopgap, and the other large old vessels, because the bulding time for the new destroyer is so long. Otherwise, you could pobably build 5-8 new stealth destroyers, for the same money to refitt and modernize the three old Kirovs.
    Though the Kirovs really are awesome ships, the anti-air umbrella they provide would be invalueble to any task force. And i hope they will build the new ships to complement the modernized Kirovs, not replace them.

    I just hope they can come visite sweden sometime Very Happy

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:45 am

    I think they should make the upgraded Kirovs all nukes regarding propulsion because AFAIK they had no problems at all with the nuclear propulsion component of the system.
    A compact powerful nuclear propulsion unit fitted to the Kirovs and the Kuznetsov and eventually any carriers they design in the future would be very useful in making them fuel independent.
    ATM the Kirov with its mixed propulsion could only sail at top speed for about 2,000 kms or something... and a carrier group is only as fast as its slowest member.

    Nuclear power will make them more expensive but also more capable and more flexible.
    The extra electrical power capacity might be useful for developments in all sorts of exotic potential future systems like laser defence systems and EM guns. With a full upgrade a vessel like Kirov should serve well into the 2030s and by then EM guns will likely be in service. With the power and room on a ship new artillery weapons are more likely to be deployed on a ship than on land and EM weapons will likely start as large naval guns, then smaller land based guns and finally small arms.
    The Russian Navy knows that a Kirov class ship is more use (when fully upgraded) than 4-5 smaller vessels that haven't been designed yet... and I agree they look cool, but if you want to play with carrier groups or have ships to lead groups of ships in your fleet a single Kirov type ship is more use than even 4-5 destroyers or any type.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Viktor on Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:25 am

    Severnaya Verf last day signed contract for 6 projct 22350 and 8 project 20382 worth 3.5 bin.

    This is a firs large contract in Navy after 2010 signing for 4 pieces of Krivak4 and project 636 sub for BS.


    03/18/1911 DEFENSE MINISTRY GAVE THE SEVERNAYA VERF MULTIBILLION-DOLLAR CONTRACT

    http://translate.google.hr/translate?hl=hr&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.militaryparitet.com/&twu=1

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:41 am

    Finally the yards are getting series order which is good.

    In another news in that link navy will procure 10 Yasen SSN by 2020 so its a boost.

    RIA Novosti reported. The submarine forces of the Navy (Navy), Russia will have until 2020 to ten new multi-purpose nuclear submarines of the fourth generation type of Severodvinsk (Project 885, the code "Ash"), told RIA Novosti on Friday a senior official of the Navy Chief of Staff RF.

    This year, for service to be adopted parent submarine of this series of Severodvinsk. At the yard now build a second boat, "Kazan". Until the end of the year will set the third submarine of this project.

    "It is planned that within the next ten years we get about ten new multi-purpose submarines of the type" Severodvinsk ", - said the admiral.

    The nineteenth of March in Russia will mark the 105 th anniversary of the establishment of submarine forces of Russia.

    The agency's interlocutor said that the distinguishing feature of these submarines will be a unified system for firing nearly all types of cruise missiles from the "Onyx" to "fire". "Will they shoot missiles and ground targets at a distance of 2,500 kilometers," - he said.

    The admiral stressed that any problems with the commissioning of the submarines of this type do not. "Now there is target shooting regular weapons" - he said.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Viktor on Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:39 pm

    This thread should get sticky status.

    Finally we see revival of Russian Navy. Feeling is good.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:29 pm

    Vladimir good info keep it up

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    Russian 5G subs to be equipped with ballistic, cruise missiles - source

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:34 pm


    Russian 5G subs to be equipped with ballistic, cruise missiles - source

    RIA Novosti

    08:52 19/03/2011

    MOSCOW, March 19 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's proposed fifth-generation nuclear submarines will be armed with both ballistic and cruise missiles, a senior Navy source told RIA Novosti on Saturday.

    He did not specify the names of the missiles.

    Russia is planning to develop its newest fifth-generation submarine by 2020 under a 2011-2020 arms procurement program, First Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin said last month.

    Russia also plans to build eight fourth-generation strategic nuclear submarines by 2020 and equip them with Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missiles, which are expected to be put into service this year.

    Defense Ministry submitted the 19 trillion ruble ($651 billion) arms procurement spending plan for 2011-2020 to the government in December. Some 80% of the funds will be spent on buying weapons and 10% will be spent on scientific research.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2011/russia-110319-rianovosti01.htm

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  PAVN on Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:03 pm

    Guys, I have a few questions about project 22350 frigate and 20380 . How many anti-aircraft missiles these ships can carried and what type of missiles? I have heard about Shtil and S-400 but not so sure. Also, can these ships carry the naval version of Tor or Pantsir instead of Shtil and S-400 and how many missiles can they carry? Thanks

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:13 am

    PAVN wrote:Guys, I have a few questions about project 22350 frigate and 20380 . How many anti-aircraft missiles these ships can carried and what type of missiles? I have heard about Shtil and S-400 but not so sure. Also, can these ships carry the naval version of Tor or Pantsir instead of Shtil and S-400 and how many missiles can they carry? Thanks

    22350 is just a Russian version of Talwar, instead of Brahmos it has Yakhont. SAM is one 3S-90 launcher for 24 9M317 and two Kashtan modules. 20380 only has Kashtan.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  PAVN on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:25 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PAVN wrote:Guys, I have a few questions about project 22350 frigate and 20380 . How many anti-aircraft missiles these ships can carried and what type of missiles? I have heard about Shtil and S-400 but not so sure. Also, can these ships carry the naval version of Tor or Pantsir instead of Shtil and S-400 and how many missiles can they carry? Thanks

    22350 is just a Russian version of Talwar, instead of Brahmos it has Yakhont. SAM is one 3S-90 launcher for 24 9M317 and two Kashtan modules. 20380 only has Kashtan.
    I remember reading in the past that the 2nd project 22350 can carry 32 9M96E missiles and the 2nd project 20380 can carry Shtil. I guess I was wrong then Neutral

    Btw, for project 22350, can 24 9M317 missiles be replaced by the navalized version of Tor or Pantsir?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:33 am

    PAVN wrote:
    I remember reading in the past that the 2nd project 22350 can carry 32 9M96E missiles and the 2nd project 20380 can carry Shtil. I guess I was wrong then Neutral

    Btw, for project 22350, can 24 9M317 missiles be replaced by the navalized version of Tor or Pantsir?

    They never finished developing the VLS to launch it so they cheaped out on the pedestal mount. The 9M96E is designed for the S-400 and requires a radar system this ship can't handle.

    You could trade out the 9M317 for TOR but it would be a bad idea. Buk-M1 class missiles can cover a fleet area defence mission while TOR is only self defence. With two Kashtan it would be rather redundant to do so.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  PAVN on Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:25 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PAVN wrote:
    I remember reading in the past that the 2nd project 22350 can carry 32 9M96E missiles and the 2nd project 20380 can carry Shtil. I guess I was wrong then Neutral

    Btw, for project 22350, can 24 9M317 missiles be replaced by the navalized version of Tor or Pantsir?

    They never finished developing the VLS to launch it so they cheaped out on the pedestal mount. The 9M96E is designed for the S-400 and requires a radar system this ship can't handle.

    You could trade out the 9M317 for TOR but it would be a bad idea. Buk-M1 class missiles can cover a fleet area defence mission while TOR is only self defence. With two Kashtan it would be rather redundant to do so.
    I was thinking that Buk-class missile is only 50 km, it means that you can't take out aircrafts either since anti-ship missiles will be launched at a range much further out. In essence, the Buk missile will be used for defense against anti-ship missile. In that case, would it be better if you can stuff more smaller Tor missile than just 24 big Buk missiles?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:02 am

    As far as I know the latest models of BUK have a range of 70kms or so and have a much more significant warhead than the TOR which should make it more effective against heavier targets.

    Not all engagements occur in open ocean and not all aircraft have long range anti ship missiles all the time.

    The British experience in the Falklands showed that their tracking radars were not so good at targets coming from land and there were several cases where British warships had to move close to land for their mission... either fire support for land forces or to protect shipping dropping off cargo. In these situations they were very vulnerable to low flying aircraft carrying dumb bombs. A missile like BUK would have been more useful than TOR in such a scenario because the BUK can engage targets at extended ranges.
    A serious threat to Argentine shipping was British helicopters like the Lynx armed with Sea Skua missiles which have a range to allow launches at standoff ranges outside short range SAMs.

    Of course when not operating alone... and operating in a group the BUK would allow the ship that carries it to cover other ships as well as itself whereas with all vessels armed with short range weapons each has to protect itself. BUK offers more flexibility... and to be quite honest the sooner a target can be dealt with the better.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  PAVN on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:44 am

    On the Udaloy II destroyer, this ship carries 128 Tor missiles. For a big and high priced tag like that, I think the manufactuer must have a lot of confidence on the short-ranged SAM to make it the "shield" of the ship instead of putting a few dozens of S-300 missiles don't you guys think? Neutral

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:52 am

    PAVN wrote:On the Udaloy II destroyer, this ship carries 128 Tor missiles. For a big and high priced tag like that, I think the manufactuer must have a lot of confidence on the short-ranged SAM to make it the "shield" of the ship instead of putting a few dozens of S-300 missiles don't you guys think? Neutral

    It has 8x8 launchers so it is 64, not 128. Considering the outfitted version only has 2-4 channels of fire, it is a bit excessive to have that many missiles. Udaloy was not fitted with Buk because it is an ASW ship, not an AAW.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  IronsightSniper on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:57 am

    PAVN wrote:On the Udaloy II destroyer, this ship carries 128 Tor missiles. For a big and high priced tag like that, I think the manufactuer must have a lot of confidence on the short-ranged SAM to make it the "shield" of the ship instead of putting a few dozens of S-300 missiles don't you guys think? Neutral

    As Vlad says, the Udaloy II only needs SAMs for self-defense, as it's an AShW ship.

    The "prime" surface fleet air defense ship for Russian fleets would be the Slava class cruisers I think. 64 S-300s right there.

    GarryB wrote:As far as I know the latest models of BUK have a range of 70kms or so and have a much more significant warhead than the TOR which should make it more effective against heavier targets.

    Rosonboronexport says 32 km for naval BUKs.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Pervius on Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:12 am

    ""The "prime" surface fleet air defense ship for Russian fleets would be the Slava class cruisers I think. 64 S-300s right there.""

    Ever wonder if new James Webb space telescope with massive mirrors could be used to cook Slava Class Cruisers like bugs with a magnifying glass?

    Nazi's dreamed of making space based weapon to be used on Earth. Cheap to make. Maybe telescopes in space also have military use if used to magnify sun and direct energy to Earth? If so air defense ships would be worthless. Be like the slapping Kadafi is getting right now. Over in minutes.

    Maybe such weapons are already in space. Not controlled by Russia.


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