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    Russian Navy: Status & News #1

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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:42 am

    The Russian Navy is largely not interested in AIP because they think they can get AIP like performance simply by replacing old lead batteries with new Lithium Ion batteries, which is much cheaper and simpler.

    More importantly the Lithium Ion batteries can replace lead batteries in existing subs without a lot of bother.

    The Akula upgrades will likely centre on replacing electronics... think how far computer technology has developed since the 1980s in terms of processing power and power consumption etc etc.

    They will likely install Sigma battle management and communications system and probably also launchers for Kalibr (also known as Club or Klub) that will be compatible with Oniks/Brahmos/Yakhont.

    Regarding the Kuznetsov it was not scheduled to go for refit till 2013 anyway.

    Minor correction... the 677 is not going to be serial produced, its faults will be corrected and the design improved and it will be produced as 677M.

    Also it makes sense to focus on the upgrade of one Kirov class vessel for now. The addition of Oniks to replace Granit is necessary as Granit is out of production.

    I rather suspect they will install the Sigma BMS and communications system as that is being installed on all RuNavy vessels from corvette to carrier.

    Other than that they might upgrade the sensors and weapons that are ready for deployment which may or may not include Redut, and Pantsir-S1. New large AESAs might not be ready yet, but for now I think this will be a relatively cheap straight forward upgrade, and in 5-10 years time they might get a much more substantial upgrade including propulsion... they will be developing new compact and powerful nuclear reactors for their new carriers and one would certainly suit the Kuznetsov to replace its complex combined propulsion system.
    Later upgrades might even include the 152mm gun based on the Coalition artillery system with guided shells able to hit targets up to 80km away.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:53 am

    has this been posted before?

    Bits of it seem familiar...

    The Russian Navy Grows from Bottom up

    RIA Novosti

    18:57 03/02/2012 RIA Novosti military commentator Konstantin Bogdanov - While the nation’s leaders work at overhauling the Navy organization, the Navy itself continues to order new ships. Last year’s persistent scandals over nuclear submarine contracts proved a hard nut to crack when assigning government contracts in 2011. For a time, the submarine scandals confused the process for ordering surface ships. Meanwhile the focus there is being shifted to the production of time tested projects built around today’s armaments.

    “Due to the lack of funding, the Navy has come close to a numerical minimum required to fulfill its mission,” Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said at a meeting with the heads of the Sevmash and Zvezdochka shipyards, and the Navy command. The meeting was called to discuss the development of Russia’s Navy.

    The deputy prime minister said many ships are being used beyond their service life and the Russian Navy needs urgent renovation. “The now widespread practice of rebuilding and renovating the fleet ship by ship to extend its service life has destroyed our production cooperation,” Rogozin said.

    Building quietly and stubbornly

    Still, it’s inaccurate to say that only one-off vessels are being constructed. Last Wednesday, two ships were laid down in St. Petersburg: the Project 22350 Admiral Golovko frigate and the Project 20385 Gremyashchy corvette.

    The Golovko is the third vessel in the Project 22350 class. The first one – Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov – hit the water in October 2010 and the second (Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov) is scheduled to be launched this year. The Gremyashchy is formally the first Project 20385 ship, but it is a further development of Projects 20380 and 20381 corvettes, two of which have already joined the Baltic Fleet, with one more undergoing trials and another under construction. Current contracts provide for the building of eight Project 22350 frigates (including the Gorshkov and the Kasatonov) and eight Project 20385 corvettes (the Gremyashchy will be the first).

    What are we building?

    The Russian Navy is not obsessed with grand-scale projects or the “de facto global standard” – strike groups of heavy ocean-going ships deployed around nuclear aircraft carriers. Even at its height the Soviet Union failed to live up to that standard with reasons ranging from weaknesses in industry and ship repair facilities to the varying rants of top military and defense industry leadership.

    The Russian Navy orders simple and ordinary workhorses for the sea. When a large number of ships was decommissioned in the 1990s (the non-strategic portion), it left a big gap in the country’s naval forces.

    The commissioning of single surface vessels for each main class (like the Pyotr Veliky in 1996) did little to prevent the overall degradation of Russia’s four fleets.

    Project 20380/20385 corvettes (or more precisely, multi-role short range escort vessels) are intended to close the gap in the coastal defense forces.

    Project 22350 frigates (multi-role offshore patrol vessels) are believed to be the core of Russia’s new Navy now. In the early 2000s, when this project was accepted as promising, the number of vessels to be built was 30. It is difficult to appraise such Napoleonic plans, but the approach has not changed: the volume of construction anticipated is up to 20 units over the next 15 to 20 years.

    Next in line is the development and construction of ocean-going destroyers. A competition is currently under way for the best project. These ships need to be large enough and well-armed. They will be in fact missile cruisers rather than destroyers. The Navy is growing “from the bottom up” as it tries out new directions and unifies the armaments on its new vessels.

    Roman Trotsenko, the head of United Shipbuilding Corporation, who touts the new shipyards at Kotlin Island, regularly promotes the idea of a nuclear aircraft carrier. The military is cautious: it says the State Armaments Program till 2020 does not mention an aircraft carrier. Yet it has launched a series of research and development projects just in case to determine the role and place of such ships in the Navy of the future.

    Marine standard

    The tendency of the Russian military to save costs and unify the fleet’s missiles is worth a separate comment. In the Soviet days, the Navy went on a spree of producing “unique” strike missile systems with incompatible launchers and missiles. In each case the adoption of one or another system was absolutely justified by tasks at hand. But it all produced a monstrous zoo full of combat weapons in the Navy. The defense industry, accustomed to spending freely, also lent a hand: sometimes military experts, who were practically-minded, combined a new missile with an old launcher. The result was self-evident.

    Take, for example, the saga of Project 670 and 670M submarines, which were to be equipped with one missile system (there were plans to arm older submarines with the new Malakhit missile with an extended range). The upshot, however, was that each project retained its original armaments – until the boats were decommissioned in the early 1990s.

    But times change and the money, not a lot even in the glorious era of Fleet Admiral Sergei Gorshkov, came to an end. The concept of a multi-purpose ship firing system became overriding: all ships in the basic classes – including Projects 20385 and 22350 and their likely cousins (ocean-going destroyers) – are now to be equipped this way.

    In effect, it is a group of unified vertical launchers which offer a wide range of configurations. A ship equipped with this multi-purpose system can carry anti-ship Oniks cruise missiles or missiles from the all-purpose Kalibr system (in three configurations: supersonic anti-ship, subsonic for engaging ground targets and anti-submarine). Future plans contemplate extending this armory by including surface-to-air missiles, although for the time being the new system is employed only in strike systems.

    The West will help us

    The delay in commissioning Project 22350 vessels (the first ship was laid down in 2006) suggested a simple solution. It was decided that the amount of time needed to start the construction Gorshkov class ships could also be spent on a simultaneous commissioning of Project 1135.7 frigates.

    This frigate is a very interesting ship. It is based on Project 1135.6 – a distant descendant of Soviet Project 1135 patrol ships developed for the Indian Navy (known as Talwar-type frigates). The Baltic shipyard has already delivered the first three vessels of this class to India. Three more are under construction at the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad.

    The Russian Navy, which badly needs new ships, has requested a “domestic” version of the Talwar, code-named 1135.7 instead. The projects turned out to be so similar that many systems adopted for the 1135.7 turned out to be systems developed for overseas customers and until recently they lacked the authorization for use in the Russian Armed Forces.

    The Russian Navy has now placed orders for six Project 1135.7 frigates with Yantar. Two of them are already laid down: the Admiral Grigorovich in December 2010 and the Admiral Essen in July 2011. For 2012, plans call for the start of two or three more ships, and one or two in 2013.

    But the feeling is that six frigates are not the limit: Project 22350 is costly and needs to be brought up to date. The current brass, badly shaken by the 1990s disaster, is holding to the maxim: “If it works, don’t fix it.” So if the 1135.7 is accepted by the Navy, a large series will be built – perhaps in an upgraded configuration.

    This will be the Russian surface fleet for the 21st century: tight-fisted, pragmatic and knowing its limits. Public opinion seems abashed to see its military in this light – but it will have to get used to it.

    The views expressed in this article are the author’s and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:21 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The Akula upgrades will likely centre on replacing electronics... think how far computer technology has developed since the 1980s in terms of processing power and power consumption etc etc.

    They will likely install Sigma battle management and communications system and probably also launchers for Kalibr (also known as Club or Klub) that will be compatible with Oniks/Brahmos/Yakhont.


    From Sevmash site
    "- repair of nuclear submarine of 971 project “Pantera”. After successful repair of one of nuclear submarines of this project, at the enterprise production was prepared for repair the rest of submarines of this series."

    http://www.sevmash.ru/eng/production/millitary/util

    So Pantera was the first Acula to be modernized and the rest will follow.

    http://www.barentsobserver.com/pantera-ready-for-checkout.428593-16287.html

    The sub has a crew of 73 sailors, it can carry up to 28 missiles. Probably land attack cruise missiles?


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:02 am

    Probably not, more likely SS-N-16 and may include Torpedoes as well.

    A new upgrade might add vertical launch tubes for Kalibr that is like the UKSK vertical launch system, but obviously designed to operate underwater.

    They will likely normally carry a mix of anti sub and anti ship weapons, though a change in role for new Russian subs will include a land attack capability now that such weapons are widely available.

    Previously land attack capability was GRANAT, which was a 2,000km range nuclear armed cruise missile.

    It was intended to hit area targets so its accuracy was not tens of metres but 100m+ so while it was effective against cities or above ground industrial targets there was no point in putting a conventional warhead on it.

    With improved guidance and terminal guidance systems the new Kalibr (Klub) can hit small targets with a conventional warhead out to 2,000km so for instance if they need to destroy a baby milk factory previously they didn't have a weapon to perform the mission so they only had strategic nuclear attack capability.

    Now they have conventional land attack capacity and will be much more flexible.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:59 am

    Russian Defense Ministry Buys Submersible Robots from Iceland

    Russian Defense Ministry Buys Submersible Robots from Iceland 02.02.2012
    Text: Lenta.Ru
    Photo: Gavia. hydro-international.com
    Russian defense ministry posted an order for 8 autonomous underwater vehicles Gavia on state procurement website; the submersibles are produced by Iceland company Hafmynd. The purchase will be held upon results of an open tender. Russian military is about to spend RUR 742.2 mln for underwater robots. All purchased submersibles are to serve in military unit 20334.

    Offers will be admitted till 10 am of Feb 20; it is planned to summarize the tender results on Feb 27. Defense ministry is going to pay RUR 37.1 mln advance. According to the order, delivery of Gavia submersibles will be held in lots through tree-year period with payment for each lot separately.

    Expectedly, Russian defense ministry would receive three Gavia submersibles in 2012, having paid RUR 300 mln. In 2013, the military plans to buy 2 robots for RUR 250 mln, and in 2014 – three vehicles for RUR 192.2 mln. The procurement will be financed by Russia's federal budget.

    Gavia is based on modular principle which allows wide range of payloads. Test depth is down to 1,000 meters. Being 2.7 meters long, Gavia weighs up to 80 kg. The submersible can be used for detection and disposal of mines, and patrolling. Besides, Hafmynd sells Gavia as a target imitator version.

    Source: http://www.rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=14207

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:11 am

    Russian Navy 30-Year Development Plan to be Ready by June

    Russia will develop a detailed 30-year plan of strengthening its naval forces by June 2012, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin wrote in his twitter account.

    “A detailed 30-year plan of strengthening its naval forces will be developed by June 2012. The decision has already been made,” Rogozin wrote on Sunday.

    The state military program for 2012-2020 has allocated 4.7 trillion rubles ($155 billion). Last year, 85 billion rubles ($2.8 billion) was allocated on the construction of nuclear submarines, frigates, ship repair and maintenance. This year it expected to spend more than 93 billion rubles ($3 billion).

    It is planned that in the future the submarine fleet will become the basis of Russia's naval force. Over the next few years it will receive two types of nuclear submarines and two types of diesel-electric submarines. This is primarily a Borey-class nuclear submarine, the carrier of the new Bulava intercontinental ballistic missiles. Eight of these submarines are planned to be built. Russia’s newest nuclear-powered submarine, the Yury Dolgoruky, is already undergoing sea trials; three more are in various stages of their completion.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:59 am

    With the standardisation of weapons and systems and propulsion and electronics they should be able to manage much larger production runs of each type and because each type will be multipurpose they will have a more flexible and powerful fleet that is easier to maintain and support.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:37 pm

    Gonna quote myself from keypub:

    http://www.lenta.ru/news/2012/02/07/fleet/

    Naval plans originally floated under the 2011-2020 program have been significantly changed. Instead of 8 Boreiis, 10 are now planned. 10 Yasen subs are also planned, all of these orders going to Sevmash. 20 conventionally powered boats in the program too, including 6 636.3s.

    Number of frigates planned was reduced from 15 to 14. This includes 8 22350 boats, and 6 project 11356M. Some will be built at Severnaya, some at Yantar. Number of corvettes planned did not change, at 35 units, 18 of which will be the 20380/20385 class. Aside from these the MOD is planning to aquire 6 project 21630 Byan gunboats, and 6 Ivan Gren landing ships.

    Very intersting news, though naturally such long term plans will change one way or another. Rogozin also mention an even longer reaching, 30 year naval plan is under construction right now, and will be revealed sometime around July.
    __________________

    Not bad at all, ofc this means vessels laid down, not in service by 2020.
    I still have my realistic doubts, ten 955s and ten 855s seems a lot at the current pace. Maybe this refers to total number requested though.
    That many 22350 hulls should be achievable, if the 4th is indeed laid down this year. 20385 numbers seem a bit high, they will need to begin full scale production at Amur as well as Severanaya to achieve that. 11356M will be easily done.
    Byan's no problem. Six Ivan Gren though is a lot, especially given the pace of the only current hull.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:22 am

    Now that they are giving larger batch orders and paying more money up front for orders I rather expect production rates to improve radically over what has been achieved so far.

    Obviously though things can change and plans must be flexible.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:43 am

    http://topwar.ru/10944-za-tri-goda-v-boevoy-sostav-chernomorskogo-flota-voydet-shest-varshavyanok.html

    Ok, sorry if repost, but I missed this. Now they are saying SIX Varshavyanka's are goign to the BSF. Before it was the 3 being laid down right now plus the Alrosa, which is in overhaul. Now the admiral is saying there will be 3 in 2014, 1 in 2015, and last 2 in 2016.

    BSF is looking for a huge combat potential increase throughout this decade.
    There has only been 1 active sub (Alrosa) for years, and that is a problem when it goes for repairs.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:31 am

    The expansion of the BSF suggests they want to expand operations in the Med...

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:44 am

    I think what ever happens they must pursue the Lada program and should not neglect it in favour of Kilo.

    Kilo design has been stretched to limit and 10 years from now it wont be competitive against modern Western SSK and that would greatly impinge its export prospects.

    Amur is a very modular design and the customer can opt for it based on its requirenment and needs and how deep his pockets are.

    Lithium-Ion cells are also very promising providing much improved performance over Lead-Acid Battery.

    AIP that generates Hydrogen from Diesel and does not need any Hydrogen to be carried is very very promising as it does not need expensive shore infrastructure , provides all benefit of Hydrogen based AIP which is the most effecient and provides much better safety factor.

    Not to mentions Single Hull Subs are less effort to maintain and can pack more punch with lesser tonnage having impact on Fuel ,Power and Engine.

    All in All Lada/Amur design is very promising and it will give them much more in financial and market returns in the next 30 year.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:46 pm

    Subs in the Black Sea cannot sail to the Mediterranean sea because of a treaty limiting the passage of subs and aircraft carriers through the Bosphorus.
    Any subs the BSF will be getting will be solely for operations in the Black Sea.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:10 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:Subs in the Black Sea cannot sail to the Mediterranean sea because of a treaty limiting the passage of subs and aircraft carriers through the Bosphorus.
    Any subs the BSF will be getting will be solely for operations in the Black Sea.

    One wonders what in in the world they need to increase the sub fleet 700% by then. Georgia? Nahh.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  medo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:42 pm

    Maybe they will sail from Black Sea via Don and Volga river to Caspian Sea.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:21 pm

    The Montreux Convention does not ban aircraft carriers specifically and has a range of exemptions which apply to Black Sea Navies.

    Both the Kuznetsov and Kiev class Soviet/Russian carriers have passed through straights between the Black Sea and the Med.

    Subs have also passed through, with prior permission from Turkey.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:12 am

    Austin wrote:I think what ever happens they must pursue the Lada program and should not neglect it in favour of Kilo.

    Kilo design has been stretched to limit and 10 years from now it wont be competitive against modern Western SSK and that would greatly impinge its export prospects.

    Amur is a very modular design and the customer can opt for it based on its requirenment and needs and how deep his pockets are.

    Lithium-Ion cells are also very promising providing much improved performance over Lead-Acid Battery.

    AIP that generates Hydrogen from Diesel and does not need any Hydrogen to be carried is very very promising as it does not need expensive shore infrastructure , provides all benefit of Hydrogen based AIP which is the most effecient and provides much better safety factor.

    Not to mentions Single Hull Subs are less effort to maintain and can pack more punch with lesser tonnage having impact on Fuel ,Power and Engine.

    All in All Lada/Amur design is very promising and it will give them much more in financial and market returns in the next 30 year.


    Apparently the new Kilos are different from export ones, and draw from advancements from Lada. Lot's of new things, sonar, etc. Might lower dependance on Lada coming to fruition even more.
    No AIP, but apparently Navy isn't desperate for AIP.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:32 am

    The situation is subject to the law of diminished returns.

    They could put the new batteries and the new sonar system, and new propulsion from the Lada class into the improved Kilo class, but to reap the full advantage of all the new technology it makes sense to go with a new from scratch design.

    It is a bit like the situation with the Flankers.

    You can put all the stuff you develop for the PAK FA into the Su-27 airframe, but at the end of the day it will never actually be a 5th gen stealth aircraft because some things need to be included in the design from scratch to take full advantage of them.

    The Lada class is smaller and quieter than the Kilo, so while putting the better sensors and equipment into the Kilos will certainly improve performance, it wont be as good in the end as a Lada class with the same stuff in it.

    While there is a delay for both the PAK FA and Lada class vessels it makes sense to apply the new stuff to existing platforms (Su-35S and Improved Kilo 636.3) but this is not a replacement for the new kit.

    It gives the new stuff operational experience, it enhances commonality between existing equipment and the next gen stuff that is soon to appear into service. It reduces variation amongst vessels in service and at the same time increases the performance of existing material.

    Most subs will go through several upgrades and refits during their operational lives and the better the commonality between them the easier things are to use and to support them.

    The whole purpose of AIP is to extend the time a diesel electric sub can operate between using its diesel engines to generate power to top up the batteries.
    They are actually not cheap, so if you can get the same performance just using better battery technology then the choice is pretty clear.

    Remember these are coastal subs... they don't need to operate entirely submerged for months at a time... these subs wont be creeping into NATO ports to spy, they will be looking for foreign SSNs trying to sneak into Russian ports or safe areas for Russian SSBNs.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:55 am

    - 6 new subs means lots of land attack kalibers attacking any future hostile Black sea nation such as Turkey/Georgia etc. or even beyond....remember domestic kaliber has 2000km range. Think of the Black sea as a bastion for diesel-electric subs.
    - The new subs with their ASM clubs form a powerfull deterrent against any hostile task force entering the Black Sea.
    - 6 new subs with ASM missiles mean that any other Black sea nation navy is second rate.
    - Because the Black sea will have air cover from the RuAF. AIP is not that important.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  runaway on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:08 am

    TheArmenian wrote:-
    - Because the Black sea will have air cover from the RuAF. AIP is not that important.

    Clearly the Navy has another opinion.


    The Russian Navy has decided against construction of Lada class submarines (Project 677) and will instead modernize its existing boats, Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

    The design of the diesel-electric Lada class was completed at the end of the 1990s, but none of the planned boats have entered service, although the lead ship in the class, the Saint Petersburg, is undergoing trials with the Baltic Fleet, Vysotsky said.

    “The Russian Navy does not need the Lada in its current form,” he said.

    Vysotsky also said the first the non-nuclear Russian submarine with anaerobic propulsion may begin trials in 2014.

    Currently all of Russia’s submarines are either nuclear or diesel-electric powered.

    “It is entirely possible we will receive a test version of an air-independent power plant in the next few years. On boats of the Lada class, two of which are already laid down. Trials may begin in 2014. That is absolutely realistic,” he said.



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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:51 am

    Interview with Navy Chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky

    http://ria.ru/interview/20120209/560467768.html

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:55 am

    The 10 year old story has finally come to its end.

    Belgorod will be transformed for special mission. Now as a boat of such size will

    certainly accommodate some missiles.

    Russia to Convert Belgorod Submarine for Special Missions

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120209/171227695.html

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:29 am

    Clearly the Navy has another opinion.

    Look at what it says...

    The Russian Navy has decided against construction of Lada class submarines (Project 677) and will instead modernize its existing boats, Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

    So it is not going to produce Project 677 class subs.

    The makers of the subs have also said as much.

    They said that the two other vessels laid down already will be upgraded and completed as Project 677M.

    SO it is a case of Lada is dead long live Lada-M.

    He then says:

    On boats of the Lada class, two of which are already laid down. Trials may begin in 2014. That is absolutely realistic,” he said.

    In other words the lead ship of the lada class is an old design from the 1990s and has not met expectations and will not be serially produced.
    The two other Lada class subs however will be completed based on the experience and solutions developed for the Lada class and will start testing in 2014... as Project 677M class vessels and likely will be accepted into Russian service alongside the upgraded Kilos they are also making to fill the gap.

    The first Lada vessel itself will be kept for use as a testing sub because the sonar it is fitted with is a very capable set that is normally fitted to much larger and more powerful SSNs rather than SSKs.

    It means it can be used to test things without taking an active sub out of service to test something.

    Interview with Navy Chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky

    Interesting... in this interview he seems to have discounted the original Lada because its diesel electric propulsion is WWII era stuff... ie diesel electric.

    He seems to suggest that the remaining two Ladas will be completed with AIP and a new propulsion system.

    Also interesting is his comments on aircraft carriers... suggesting the new Russian carriers will focus on dominating space, airspace, and underwater around the carrier group, so I would expect it will have a very powerful radar able to track space objects and air objects and also carry aircraft able to engage space, air, and sub surface threats.

    Regarding the Akulas (Typhoons) it seems they are keeping the Sub they used to test Bulava on as a test vessel, while the other two perhaps will become cruise missile carriers.

    With regard to the Belgorod, perhaps it will be the test vessel for conversion from Granit to Calibr/Oniks?

    If the tubes are fully compatible with the UKSK system then all the Oscar and Oscar II class subs suddenly become multi function vessels as they can carry long range supersonic anti ship missiles as per original purpose, but could also carry land attack conventionally armed cruise missiles or even anti sub Klub missiles/torpedo carriers.

    Of course these are large subs, so there is potential for UUVs and diver lock out facilities for sneaky stuff.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:12 am

    Well what he says is

    They need Lada with the new AIP power integrated and not a simple Diesel-Electric Submarine which it self has problem meeting the power requirement of first Lada. So the first sub will just serve as test bed and existing problem will be rectified.

    Belogord will be Special Purpose Submarine which means for Special Ops and Intelligence Gathering not a cruise missile carrier.

    The existing Akula/Typhoon has spare SS-N-20 and it will use that , the one Donsky will continue to be used as test platform for Bulava

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:58 pm

    The existing Akula/Typhoon has spare SS-N-20 and it will use that , the one Donsky will continue to be used as test platform for Bulava

    They can't.

    Very simply, just two Akula/Typhoon class subs carry 40 SLBMs with a total of 400 strategic warheads... keeping these in service till 2025 would mean the remaining Boreis would only be allowed to carry 100 warheads between the 10 of them...

    I rather suspect the SS-N-20 missiles will be removed and UKSK launchers will be fitted.

    Look at his comments:

    - They are out of service of the Navy are not displayed. In the near future, while there is still a part of rockets and other great opportunities, they will be in the battle of the fleet, as carriers of nuclear weapons.

    SSBNs with SLBMs don't go anywhere near their own carrier battle groups... they go off and try to lose any tails they might have and hide under the arctic ice listening for orders.

    There are two types of missile armed subs that operate with carrier groups... anti ship and land attack, so the removal of the SS-N-20 and replacement with perhaps 20 UKSK launchers would mean each sub could carry 160 Oniks anti ship missiles, or 160 x 2,000km range land attack Klub/Kalibr missiles, or any combination of these and anti sub missiles of the Klub family or the supersonic anti ship Klub... who knows what range the domestic model has...

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