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    Russian Navy: Status & News #1

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    Vladimir79
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    Price of Severodvinsk more than doubled

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:35 am

    Price of Severodvinsk more than doubled
    08.07.2011 / Izvestiya.ru

    The Commander of the Navy, said that the cost of the submarine "unbelievably overpriced"

    The Commander of the Navy Vladimir Vysotsky, lashed out against the Severodvinsk Machine-Building Enterprise, stating that the firm is "incomprehensible" lifted the price of a new multipurpose nuclear submarine project 855 type "Ash". The ship, named "Severodvinsk", shall be delivered to the fleet later this year.

    - Prices are too high, and prices are too high to comprehend, - said Vladimir Vysotsky.

    At the same time the commander in chief has expressed confidence that the situation with "Severodvinsk" yet resolved in favor of the Navy, which has no plans to abandon the purchase.

    "Severodvinsk" waiting for the navy, with a special look. APL was designed in a marine engineering office "Malachite" in St. Petersburg. On the "Sevmash" it was laid in 1993, but only last year completed. According to experts, such a long construction period was associated not only with the economic problems of the country, but with a fundamentally new features of the project and weapons dismantlement. Boat designer like "Lego" is constantly upgraded directly on the stocks the company, changed its stand on weapons systems and equipment. As a result, to date, the fleet should receive the most modern and technologically advanced submarines.

    Boat Project 855 - direct heir to a very successful series of the third generation of submarines of Project 971 "The pike-B." These ships are now at the core of our multi-purpose attack submarines. Almost inaudible in the deep ocean, they are equally effective against both vehicles and against warships, and are capable of striking with cruise missiles on the coastal infrastructure of the enemy.

    But "Ash" on the low noise exceeds not only the "Pike", but the newest U.S. nuclear submarine "Sea Wolf". In addition, unlike her to be more functional. The boat placed eight launchers, anti-modern supersonic cruise missiles, "Onyx", which have a range exceeding 300 km.

    In addition, the boat is the most advanced anti-submarine weaponry, which makes "Severodvinsk" multi-purpose attack craft capable of high efficiency wide range of tasks in the oceans.

    It was originally planned that the fleet will receive at least 30 such submarines. But now we are talking about six boats of the project. Currently, the Severodvinsk Machine-Building plant began construction of the second ship, Project 885, named "Kazan". When will be established following the boat, is still unknown: the issue of pricing of the final product of the military-industrial complex can stretch on for years this process. According to "Izvestia" of Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, it is unclear of what constitutes a price on the ship, if the parent boat was worth 47 billion rubles, and the next, should be exactly the same - already 112 billion!

    - Of course, the price will increase if the cost of one ship include all costs for others, it does not project-related business services include kindergartens, some infrastructure, etc., - the head of the Defense Ministry. - We are willing to pay, provided that the pricing for this or that product will be transparent. Practice shows that if the "decode" all the articles in the contract, it turns out that the final cost of the finished product can safely deduct up to 30%.

    The issue of pricing for the products of military-industrial complex - one of the most painful in the course of defense contracts. In May, the Ministry of Finance Ministry of Defense tasked the state defense order to cut costs by at least 100 billion rubles, while maintaining the parameters weapons program until 2020. In this vein, and can take criticism, "Sevmash" by the commander of the Navy.

    Source of "Izvestia" on the "Sevmash" noted that the cost of building the boat is directly linked to rising materials, energy and equipment.

    - A range of equipment on a boat comes by monopoly providers, which tend to dictate pricing terms, - he explained, noting that the company is negotiating with suppliers to resolve the situation. - The world shipbuilding practice is accepted that the cost of building the ship below the value of serial cerebral vessel. However, the head of the project boat "Ash" and the second submarine of this project being built at different times, practically in different historical periods, respectively, and the price is formed in different ways.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Pervius on Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:48 pm

    Well if they took that tool and used it to gain new territory they could justify it's cost.

    Adding a few million new taxpayers to Moscow would pay for it.


    Besides the oil in the Arctic will pay for this. Help China out in getting the little bit of territory it's trying to keep from Vietnam...maybe China help a little in making the next submarine.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:35 am

    High tech is expensive.

    If it helps you win where a cheaper sub would lose, or survive where a cheaper sub would be destroyed then that is where you get your moneys worth.

    Using it to invade another country makes no sense because the international backlash and subsequent isolation would be a much greater penalty.

    What Russia should be doing is using the focus on technology to create a better Russia where living standards are raised and it becomes a place where people can go and work hard and earn a comfortable living.

    I would expect a lot of people from Asia... especially China might be interested in changing from a communist country to a capitalist country... the focus needs to be to convert them into real Russians... integrate them into Russian society rather than isolate them and keep them separate.

    Vladimir79
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    MoD and USC have not concluded 40% of naval contracts for 2011

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:21 pm

    Defense and USC have not concluded contracts for 40% of all naval defense contracts

    MOSCOW, July 7 - RIA Novosti. Defense and the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) is not signed contracts to date, which amount to about 40% of defense contracts for the 2011 naval component, said Thursday RIA Novosti press secretary Alexei Kravchenko USC.

    "For us it is a serious problem is the fact that payment for this year is extremely erratically. As of July 7, with USC, which unites more than 70% of design offices and shipbuilding enterprises of the Russian Federation has signed several major contracts, which amount to about 40% of the total fleet Goza, 2011 "- said Kravchenko.

    He was commenting the statement by Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov that the agency has not yet signed contracts to supply military equipment to a number of companies, including USC, as manufacturers have significantly inflate their prices. In particular, the plant "Sevmash", part of USC, sharply increased the price for the purchase of submarines of projects 955 (such as "Yuri Dolgoruky") and 885 (type "Severodvinsk").

    According to Kravchenko, in discussing the issue of pricing for companies USC must take into account that the total price of the contract value of work, for example, such plant as "Sevmash" is no more than 30%, while the remaining two-thirds - are the prices of various equipment suppliers , weapons and accessories, which are produced by several dozens of enterprises of different ownership.

    "This makes claims of Defense final price is to the integrator, such as" Sevmash "without actually working with businesses, which accounted for the bulk of the cost and yet most of the more expensive the final product. Among the reasons for the increase in prices, in addition to the general inflation rate, can be called and that inflation in the real sector of the industry nationwide is much higher, "- said Kravchenko.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:21 pm

    IMDS 2011

    http://vkontakte.ru/album-8557593_92443698?rev=1

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:07 pm

    From the last news appear that the R&D program for the new generation multipurpose "stealth" destroyer has been accelerated.


    http://rt.com/news/navy-new-destroyer-project-441/


    I don't believe that the first ship of the new project will see the light in 2012 as suggested, but 2013 could likely become the year of presentation of this new generation blu-water unit.

    In my opinion opt for nuclear propulsion will reveal itself as the most reasonable choice ,because with similar planned number of unities costs for development and lower life-operation costs will write off the greater initial expenses ...that ,obviously, leaving out of the line of reasonment the increased overall capabilities implementable in a similarly powered destroyer and the inherent increases of scientifical know-hows in a similar crucial sector....

    I am already very impressed by the capabilities (both in the anti-surface and in the anti-air departement) of the Pr. 22350 frigate, absolutely comparable ,in sheer power, with typical destroyers of other navies ; fr4omk the declarations it appear that this destroyer will have several UKSK tubes with highly customizable load.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:11 pm

    I am highly skeptical that may go for Nuclear Propulsion if they plan to buy 12- 14 ships as nuclear propulsion is a very expensive proposition , Gas Turbine might be cheaper becuase Russia any ways has a very large reserves of gas.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:14 pm

    I am highly skeptical that may go for Nuclear Propulsion if they plan to buy 12- 14 ships as nuclear propulsion is a very expensive proposition , Gas Turbine might be cheaper becuase Russia any ways has a very large reserves of gas.


    I am skeptical,instead, that the number of new generation destroyers will be 14-16 ; if the number of ships will be this one nuclear propulsion will reveal the cheaper option on the long run and surely the option opening also more design solutions ; we can only wait and observe what will happen.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:14 am

    The Russian military is going for capability and high tech.

    Gas Turbines means everywhere the vessel goes it needs a team of tankers to follow it to give it a fuel top up every so often.

    A modern NPP could be designed to not need refuelling for 30 years or more, so after 30 years of operation the savings in fuel will be enormous.

    The Russians are building land based breeder reactors... place spent fuel rods around the core of those and they become reenriched over time... so free nuclear fuel for domestic use, weapons production, and potentially for export as well.

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    Russia to build 6 Submarines Annually - Deputy PM

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:12 pm


    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120202/171099357.html



    “By 2013, production capacity [at Russian shipyards] will allow us to build six submarines and an aircraft carrier every year,” Rogozin told reporters, adding that the number includes both nuclear and diesel-powered submarines.

    As a result, the production output will surpass that of the Soviet era when Russia built an average of five submarines annually, he said.

    Rogozin earlier said the production had been bogged down in the past by a lack of financing, outdated equipment and a shortage of skilled labor.

    Russia is planning to build eight Borey class strategic submarines and up to 10 Graney class attack subs by 2020.


    This thread has a deep ,not plainly evident link with that on the "strange" ,almost mad, statements produced by Russian Generals on T-90S MBT, BM-30 Smerch, cruise missiles etc..etc..

    To anyone the task to realize what.....



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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  runaway on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:21 pm

    "Russia will start producing six submarines and one aircraft carrier annually starting in 2013, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Thursday.

    “By 2013, production capacity [at Russian shipyards] will allow us to build six submarines and an aircraft carrier every year,” Rogozin told reporters, adding that the number includes both nuclear and diesel-powered submarines."

    Whos mad? 6 subs and a aircraft carrier each year!
    Well, with diesel subs, thats no problem to start producing. But aircraft carriers!
    I guess the report is faulty, no new carrier will be laid down in 2013, but certainly the Kuznetsov will be laid up for overhaul. And with the new Mistrals to be built in russia, maybe you can say "a new carrier annually", though not entirely correct.








    TR1
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:25 pm

    I was hoping Rogozin would not be yet another one of these fantasy tellers.

    Guess I was wrong.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:14 pm

    TR1 wrote:I was hoping Rogozin would not be yet another one of these fantasy tellers.

    Guess I was wrong.

    Well Popovkin today announced Russians will be at Moon by 2020

    so I guess there was a large party night before involving lots of drinks and

    drugs and bitches and Russian anthem and etc ....

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:59 am

    Well he is talking about production capacity... not what will actually be produced.

    Even Corvettes in the Russian Navy will carry Aircraft, so I wouldn't read too much in to it.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:26 am

    I think he meant: Six submarines and an aircraft carrier can be built simultaneously at the shipyard.
    That does not mean 6 subs and a carrrier will be delivered every year.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:32 am

    The aircraft carriers refereed to are Mistrals.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:36 am

    That production ability is similar to my production ability to have 100 children if i have a harem but that does not mean i will have 100 children or will have a harem.

    Not sure what he is smoking these days but it is quite potent and i want to try that Laughing

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  Austin on Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:45 am

    Some clarification from Rogozin on twitter

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20120203/555332791.html

    No nonsense, I said that this year we will finish repairing the ship aircraft carrier" Admiral Gorshkov "and construct / renovate six boats" - Rogozin wrote in response to a comment of one of the users of Twitter.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:35 am

    So it is stupid reporters reporting what they think they hear without getting clarification because they really don't understand anything about the military and didn't realise what they were reporting sounded absurd.

    Or perhaps it was a translation issue.

    Hopefully in addition to 6 subs per year they will also be able to start to serial produce Corvettes and frigates, not to mention new support vessels and a destroyer or two...

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  runaway on Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:53 pm

    Viktor wrote:Well Popovkin today announced Russians will be at Moon by 2020

    so I guess there was a large party night before involving lots of drinks and

    drugs and bitches and Russian anthem and etc ....

    Man..i wish i could have been there.. russia

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TR1 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:40 pm

    Rogozin said they will surpass Soviet production tempos, that is fantasy beyond belief. Back then Kilos were churned out in under half a year, and 971s commissioned within a year of being laid down.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  TR1 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:42 pm

    Austin wrote:Some clarification from Rogozin on twitter

    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20120203/555332791.html

    No nonsense, I said that this year we will finish repairing the ship aircraft carrier" Admiral Gorshkov "and construct / renovate six boats" - Rogozin wrote in response to a comment of one of the users of Twitter.

    lol, well Rogozin, way to be vague the first time around. That sounds very different from what he said originally. Not just him, Ivanon before also said the number of ships being worked on was the same as Soviet times. 1.) Not true 2.) Even if it was, that's pointless if a 20380 takes 6/7 years to make!

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:08 am

    I think he is talking about production capacity rather than actual orders... remember there are export orders as well as domestic orders to produce vessels for.

    Also be aware that production rates are seriously effected by funding levels and of course new designs whose final weapon and sensor fit is not ready or not decided will obviously take longer to build than the finalised design ready for serial production.

    He says he said finish work on a carrier and produce/rennovate 6 subs... well they also said they will extend the life of some third generation subs, so in addition to new production subs (Borei, Yasen, Lada, Upgraded Kilo), they will also be refurbishing existing types (Oscar refits replacing Granit with Oniks, Typhoon/Akula refits, Delta IV refits and Delta III repairs etc)... to be honest I would be surprised over the next few years if they don't do better than 6 subs and another vessel upgrade... in terms of the latter... the Gorshkov to India, The K is going into refit, they are supplying 20% of materials to the 2 Mistrals being built in France and then they are building two more in Russia... I doubt their new domestic fixed wing carrier will even have a finalised concrete design till 2017=2018 with production likely not starting till 2021-2023 and perhaps hit ready for fitting out in 2027-2030. A second new carrier layed down in 2026 or so and both carriers fully operational by 2035 or so... in time for a 2040 retirement of the K perhaps.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:30 pm

    Well no-one will be able to build one aircraft carrier each year that's for sure. But I'm pretty sure that's not what the discussion is about; rather it's probably about starting the construction of an aircraft carrier each year and ensuring that there is the capacity for doing that. And I guess we'll see something like that with the Mistrals, with a new one launched into production each successive year until we have all 4 underway (or however many it is that will be built or partially built in Russia); i.e. their development will be in parallel.

    Also note that, as GarryB and TheArmenian mentioned, Rogozin is talking about capacity/capability - it doesn't actually mean that Russia will start a new carrier each year.

    Viktor wrote:
    TR1 wrote:I was hoping Rogozin would not be yet another one of these fantasy tellers.

    Guess I was wrong.

    Well Popovkin today announced Russians will be at Moon by 2020

    so I guess there was a large party night before involving lots of drinks and

    drugs and bitches and Russian anthem and etc ....

    Popovkin seems to be on the moon already

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #1

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:52 pm

    As General Director of both Sevmash and TsKB MT Rubin, Andrey Dyachkov’s a pretty significant individual when it comes to submarines. What follows are highlights from his RIA Novosti interview last Friday.

    Some blurbs have been published, but one frankly hasn’t had time to see if they captured the importance of what Dyachkov said. Hence this summary. It has less elegance (or perhaps fluff) than you may be accustomed to reading on these pages.

    Dyachkov said the following:

    1. Sevmash and the Defense Ministry signed a contract for the modernized Yasen, or Yasen-M this year. It will be five units; Severodvinsk plus five. Severodvinsk will be delivered next year; there were problems with some components obtained from suppliers and the Kalibr missile system needs to complete state testing. About six months are needed for all this.
    2. This year’s huge contract problems were a result of a changed Defense Ministry approach toward price formation Sevmash wasn’t ready for. But times have changed, and Sevmash recognizes money has to be used more effectively, and ways have to be found to cut production expenditures.
    3. Rubin has a contract to design the modernized proyekt 955, Borey, the Borey-A. The contract should be signed by early 2012. The lay-down of the first improved Borey will happen next year, and Saint Nikolay is still the working name for the first unit. No word from the Sevmash chief on the final number of boats until after the contract is signed. They’ve started laying down Saint Nikolay, but the official ceremony’s still to come.
    4. Seventy percent of sub costs are reportedly to pay suppliers. The main thing is getting them to reduce the cost of their products. The Defense Ministry might even consider foreign component suppliers for some SSBN components.
    5. Sevmash will take on construction of two diesel-electric proyekt 636 from Admiralty Wharves. This will lighten the workload of the latter, and use excess capacity at the former.
    6. Severnoye PKB has a contract to figure out how to modernize Kirov-class CGN Admiral Nakhimov (proyekt 1164, Orlan). First and foremost, it needs new missiles (Kalibr and Oniks) to replace its Granit. They are talking only about Nakhimov at this point.
    7. Sevmash won’t be repairing CV Admiral Kuznetsov in 2012. The shipyard is prepared to build a future carrier.
    8. Modified Typhoon-class SSBN Dmitriy Donskoy will be kept active at the White Sea Naval Base for sub-on-sub trials of new boats. Northern Fleet subs won’t be diverted for this task.
    9. KB Malakhit has developed repair and modernization plans for the Akula-class (Proyekt 971, Bars). Money’s been allocated and Zvezdochka will do the work.
    10. Russia may offer up the Amur-1650 diesel sub in next year’s Indian tender. It could have air-independent propulsion, but Russia doesn’t seem really high on the idea.
    11. They want to test Proyekt 677 Lada and its sonar in deeper waters next year.

    http://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/tag/akula/

    Does anyone have any info for 7 and 9 ?
    What will be done with kuznetsov modernization?
    An Acula class modernization what could include? New weapons?

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