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    Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

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    par far

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    Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  par far on Sun May 21, 2017 3:34 pm

    With the US signing a $400+ Billion arms contract with Saudi Arabia, there will be a shit load of money will be going in the coffers of the US arms industry. Does this mean that the US will leave Russia behind in the Arms race? Why cannot Russia ever get a contract like that? Is it safe to say that the US is ahead of Russia in the arms race?(which just sucks.)

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 4:20 pm

    Are you really this dense? I'm curious of what your age is. Please tell us.

    First off, no $400B is being spent on arms by Saudi Arabia. Second, it is always been a scratch your back and you scratch mine between those two states.a

    And what does selling weapons to another state have to do with an arms race? Do you even know what that term even means?
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  Isos on Sun May 21, 2017 4:23 pm

    par far wrote:With the US signing a $400+ Billion arms contract with Saudi Arabia, there will be a shit load of money will be going in the coffers of the US arms industry. Does this mean that the US will leave Russia behind in the Arms race? Why cannot Russia ever get a contract like that? Is it safe to say that the US is ahead of Russia in the arms race?(which just sucks.)


    It's 100 billion for arms and the rest is for civilian projects. Saudia arabia always buy from US and they pay lot for not that much. This money will probably be invest in saudi's oïl and then they will buy arms again and US will buy oïl ...

    Those who buy US weapons don't really have the choice. Like Japan, South corea, SA, they threaten them to not help them against North corea, Iran and china if they don't buy their stuff. They sell them for a much higher price than the true cost (F-15SA is around 150 million $ while the basic F-15 was 30 million$ ).
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 4:34 pm

    Isos wrote:
    par far wrote:With the US signing a $400+ Billion arms contract with Saudi Arabia, there will be a shit load of money will be going in the coffers of the US arms industry. Does this mean that the US will leave Russia behind in the Arms race? Why cannot Russia ever get a contract like that? Is it safe to say that the US is ahead of Russia in the arms race?(which just sucks.)


    It's 100 billion for arms and the rest is for civilian projects. Saudia arabia always buy from US and they pay lot for not that much. This money will probably be invest in saudi's oïl and then they will buy arms again and US will buy oïl ...

    Those who buy US weapons don't really have the choice. Like Japan, South corea, SA, they threaten them to not help them against North corea, Iran and china if they don't buy their stuff. They sell them for a much higher price than the true cost (F-15SA is around 150 million $ while the basic F-15 was 30 million$ ).

    to add to this, Saudi Arabia is getting its ass handed to it in Yemen so there is a ton of equipment needing replacement. But ISOS is right, the cost of US equipment to Saudi Arabia is extortion prices. They get some decent equipment at prices that are out of this world. But let them blow all that money. They have to borrow a lot already just to survive the low oil prices as is.

    par far

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  par far on Sun May 21, 2017 4:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Are you really this dense? I'm curious of what your age is. Please tell us.

    First off, no $400B is being spent on arms by Saudi Arabia. Second, it is always been a scratch your back and you scratch mine between those two states.a

    And what does selling weapons to another state have to do with an arms race? Do you even know what that term even means?


    I honestly all the $400 Billion were on arms and by arms race, I meant that the US will have more money to spent on arms research and development.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 4:41 pm

    Its $100B and US prints money to oblivion. What ends up happening instead is that everything becomes over inflated in costs.

    par far

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  par far on Sun May 21, 2017 4:41 pm

    Isos wrote:
    par far wrote:With the US signing a $400+ Billion arms contract with Saudi Arabia, there will be a shit load of money will be going in the coffers of the US arms industry. Does this mean that the US will leave Russia behind in the Arms race? Why cannot Russia ever get a contract like that? Is it safe to say that the US is ahead of Russia in the arms race?(which just sucks.)


    It's 100 billion for arms and the rest is for civilian projects. Saudia arabia always buy from US and they pay lot for not that much. This money will probably be invest in saudi's oïl and then they will buy arms again and US will buy oïl ...

    Those who buy US weapons don't really have the choice. Like Japan, South corea, SA, they threaten them to not help them against North corea, Iran and china if they don't buy their stuff. They sell them for a much higher price than the true cost (F-15SA is around 150 million $ while the basic F-15 was 30 million$ ).


    This set's everything straight but the thing is if Russia had signed something with Iran, west would throw a huge hissy fit and talk of sanctions would be the top news(this pisses me off.)

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 4:46 pm

    Why would you care? Russia really doesn't care what the west says or wants. In the real world, people let the dogs bark but the caravan always moves on.

    As for Iran and projects, Iran isn't Russia's ally or friend. Just have some mutual interests. Iran has chance to buy SSJ-100 but they opted to purchase jets they couldn't before hand and may not be able to buy spares in the future because of sanctions. If Iran was stupid enough for that, then...

    Even Russia is seeking to sell stuff to Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries with some success (Joint project with UAE for a fifth Gen MiG).

    Funny how Iran is. It is a lot like Israel. Both hate each other but both are the same - not worthy of an alliance with anyone and out for themselves.

    par far

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  par far on Sun May 21, 2017 4:53 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Why would you care? Russia really doesn't care what the west says or wants. In the real world, people let the dogs bark but the caravan always moves on.

    As for Iran and projects, Iran isn't Russia's ally or friend. Just have some mutual interests. Iran has chance to buy SSJ-100 but they opted to purchase jets they couldn't before hand and may not be able to buy spares in the future because of sanctions. If Iran was stupid enough for that, then...

    Even Russia is seeking to sell stuff to Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries with some success (Joint project with UAE for a fifth Gen MiG).

    Funny how Iran is. It is a lot like Israel. Both hate each other but both are the same - not worthy of an alliance with anyone and out for themselves.


    I was talking more about the arms contracts, as for the buying the jets, I think Iran is just trying to buy influence in these countries by supporting the big companies, which they will likely get brunt by. I think they will end up buying SSJ-100 in the end(they will buy more than a few of the SSJ-100.) But Russia also supported sanctions on Iran in 2007.

    The bolded Part I kind of agree with but with Iran, they won't use and abuse you like Israel does to most of it's allies but they do look after #1 first.


    Last edited by par far on Sun May 21, 2017 4:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  Isos on Sun May 21, 2017 4:55 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Why would you care? Russia really doesn't care what the west says or wants. In the real world, people let the dogs bark but the caravan always moves on.

    As for Iran and projects, Iran isn't Russia's ally or friend. Just have some mutual interests. Iran has chance to buy SSJ-100 but they opted to purchase jets they couldn't before hand and may not be able to buy spares in the future because of sanctions. If Iran was stupid enough for that, then...

    Even Russia is seeking to sell stuff to Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries with some success (Joint project with UAE for a fifth Gen MiG).

    Funny how Iran is. It is a lot like Israel. Both hate each other but both are the same - not worthy of an alliance with anyone and out for themselves.

    Both Russia and Iran don't really need an alliance with the other. In the 70s they were ennemies. But once the sanction are done (Russia don't want a nuclear Iran too) they will probably try to sell some Sukhois. Russia has also radars scanning the iranian airspace, many here think that if you have US as an enemy you become bestfriend. That's not the reality.

    For the relation between US and SA, it's totaly different from a scenario of Russia selling arms to Iran. Like I said the money between them will always go in the US then in SA then USA ... While Russia just want to sell it most of the time without offsets.

    I've watched a documentry about the SA king family coming in Paris and they left without paying the hotel ... the money will go always in USA.

    par far

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  par far on Sun May 21, 2017 4:59 pm

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Why would you care? Russia really doesn't care what the west says or wants. In the real world, people let the dogs bark but the caravan always moves on.

    As for Iran and projects, Iran isn't Russia's ally or friend. Just have some mutual interests. Iran has chance to buy SSJ-100 but they opted to purchase jets they couldn't before hand and may not be able to buy spares in the future because of sanctions. If Iran was stupid enough for that, then...

    Even Russia is seeking to sell stuff to Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries with some success (Joint project with UAE for a fifth Gen MiG).

    Funny how Iran is. It is a lot like Israel. Both hate each other but both are the same - not worthy of an alliance with anyone and out for themselves.

    Both Russia and Iran don't really need an alliance with the other. In the 70s they were ennemies. But once the sanction are done (Russia don't want a nuclear Iran too) they will probably try to sell some Sukhois. Russia has also radars scanning the iranian airspace, many here think that if you have US as an enemy you become bestfriend. That's not the reality.

    For the relation between US and SA, it's totaly different from a scenario of Russia selling arms to Iran. Like I said the money between them will always go in the US then in SA then USA ... While Russia just want to sell it most of the time without offsets.

    I've watched a documentry about the SA king family coming in Paris and they left without paying the hotel ...  the money will go always in USA.


    I have no idea how the US does this and get's a way with it, it is amazing LOL.

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 5:02 pm

    Saudi Arabia has something like $800B stashed away in the USA as investments. That is a lot of money. In some terms, enough to cause a huge crisis in the US banking and currency system if Saudi pulls it.

    So Saudi Arabia has a grip on US testies. So of course US will support them and vice versa.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  Isos on Sun May 21, 2017 5:09 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Saudi Arabia has something like $800B stashed away in the USA as investments. That is a lot of money. In some terms, enough to cause a huge crisis in the US banking and currency system if Saudi pulls it.

    So Saudi Arabia has a grip on US testies.  So of course US will support them and vice versa.


    lol! They will bring peace in SA before it happens ...


    I have no idea how the US does this and get's a way with it, it is amazing LOL.

    I exagerated but the the relation betwen them is too powerfull to break it.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun May 21, 2017 5:19 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Saudi Arabia has something like $800B stashed away in the USA as investments. That is a lot of money. In some terms, enough to cause a huge crisis in the US banking and currency system if Saudi pulls it.

    So Saudi Arabia has a grip on US testies.  So of course US will support them and vice versa.

    If the money sits in US oil, then it actually makes KSA hostage of the US. They can't withdraw that cash at will, even within a year. That money is only making more money for the US, the longer it sits there. If it were the case of KSA of holding US bonds in KSA, you'd be right.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 5:24 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Saudi Arabia has something like $800B stashed away in the USA as investments. That is a lot of money. In some terms, enough to cause a huge crisis in the US banking and currency system if Saudi pulls it.

    So Saudi Arabia has a grip on US testies.  So of course US will support them and vice versa.

    If the money sits in US oil, then it actually makes KSA hostage of the US. They can't withdraw that cash at will, even within a year. That money is only making more money for the US, the longer it sits there. If it were the case of KSA of holding US bonds in KSA, you'd be right.

    I am not sure were all of the money Saudi Arabia has invested in US sits. All I know is they used it as a threat multiple of times in recent past.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun May 21, 2017 5:27 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Saudi Arabia has something like $800B stashed away in the USA as investments. That is a lot of money. In some terms, enough to cause a huge crisis in the US banking and currency system if Saudi pulls it.

    So Saudi Arabia has a grip on US testies.  So of course US will support them and vice versa.

    If the money sits in US oil, then it actually makes KSA hostage of the US. They can't withdraw that cash at will, even within a year. That money is only making more money for the US, the longer it sits there. If it were the case of KSA of holding US bonds in KSA, you'd be right.

    I am not sure were all of the money Saudi Arabia has invested in US sits. All I know is they used it as a threat multiple of times in recent past.

    I'm just going by the Iranian example where they got tens of billions frozen internationally at US's will.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 5:30 pm

    The amount Iran had was significantly smaller. But yeah, that was a risk. But since the US had everyone sanction Iran, they all were willing to take that risk and nothing Iran could have done.

    Saudis have more money to bribe almost anyone to blow them.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun May 21, 2017 5:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:The amount Iran had was significantly smaller. But yeah, that was a risk. But since the US had everyone sanction Iran, they all were willing to take that risk and nothing Iran could have done.

    Saudis have more money to bribe almost anyone to blow them.

    Sure. But my gut feeling is that all it takes for these folks is a set of hot Moldovan beauties, a couple of camcorders and a room in a 5 star hotel.
    Meaning their princes and government employees are weak and easily blackmailed. Corruptible. I bet you Iranians aren't that easy.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun May 21, 2017 5:50 pm

    I consider the Saudis and Iranians similar. Only thing that stands in the way is the Ayatollahs that makes the difference. Saudi King and the rest of the gov are as dirty as they come. I wouldn't be surprised if the deal between US and Saudi Arabia was a "scratch my back, and ill scratch yours" deal. It always is between these two. There isn't such a thing as mutual trade deals in the classic sense with them. Maybe Saudi Arabia is finally pushing to be the administration center for major oil groups and what not. Don't know who in their right mind would actually want to work their though.
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    Re: Russian Arms Sales vs US Arms Sales

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