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    Ukrainian Navy

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:17 am

    What sad fate for two of the oldest and larger shipyards of imperial Russia and Soviet Union...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:37 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:What sad fate for two of the oldest and larger shipyards of imperial Russia and Soviet Union...

    Spite and hate at the wrong target does not put bread on the table. The svidomites are reaping what they sow.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:46 am

    Before 2014, Russia was ready to take it in exchange for some gas related debts. They refused, hoping to sell it, & ended up spending more $ maintaining it.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:41 am

    Forget that, if memory serves, Ukraine had 2 choices, the EU or the EEU plus China.

    The deciding factor was that the Russians and Chinese were ready to invest 10-15billion into Ukraine, while the Uber EU only offered 900mill or so.
    So the choice was obvious.
    But of course, useful idiots in Ukraine though otherwise and dragged the entire country to the ground.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:15 am

    Well that is something the west seems to forget... the Ukrainian government that accepted the Russian and Chinese deal was not pro Russia in any sense of the word... it was simply obviously the better option for the Ukraine...

    Something like 15 billion dollars in direct investments in Ukrainian businesses and infrastructure, vs something like 7 billion in loans that would have had to have been paid back with interest... it really shouldn't be hard for anyone to decide which was the best offer for the Ukraine.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:35 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Before 2014, Russia was ready to take it in exchange for some gas related debts. They refused, hoping to sell it, & ended up spending more $ maintaining it.

    Oh boy the stupidity lol1

    Sell it to whom? Only side willing to take it just gave them their final offer.

    Did they think that USN would be interested in that thing?
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:20 pm

    Still about the building of the corvette
    https://topwar.ru/160505-poltorak-nazval-summu-dlja-dostrojki-korveta-vladimir-velikij.html

    Well at least this will prevent the Ukrainians from dismantling the shipyards for another few years, and maybe maintain a minimum of capabilities and trained workers in the area...

    When Russia took over the shipyards in Crimea, they were in a sorry state...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:50 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Still about the building of the corvette
    https://topwar.ru/160505-poltorak-nazval-summu-dlja-dostrojki-korveta-vladimir-velikij.html

    Well at least this will prevent the Ukrainians from dismantling the shipyards for another few years, and maybe maintain a minimum of capabilities and trained workers in the area...

    When Russia took over the shipyards in Crimea, they were in a sorry state...

    Banderastan is outdoing many parts of Africa for catabolic type corruption. Everyone steals, no state money directed at infrastructure
    is ever used for the purpose aside from some occasional splashes here and there. So Banderastan is starting to resemble those 3rd
    world toilets more and more every day.

    BTW, the EU was not offering Ukraine any net investment. One of the stipulations of the association agreement was that
    Ukraine change its laws and standards to EU ones. This included the ripping out of Russian gauge rail and replacing it with
    EU gauge rails. This was a huge multi-billion dollar expense all on its own. The jumping retards on the Maidan thought
    that the association agreement was some sort of EU membership card. These retards didn't understand that it was nothing of
    the sort and merely a disposable paper designed to give EU economic advantages. The EU was planning to use Ukraine as
    a back door into the Russian market by making use of the special low-tariff trade arrangements between Russia and Ukraine.
    The EU-tards and their owner, Uncle Scumbag, got the regime change they wanted, but lost the Russian market. They also
    left Ukraine, the newly minted Banderastan, to dangle from the outhouse hole edge. But the jumping Maidan retards are
    still drinking the propaganda koolaid.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:29 pm

    From day to day the so-called "Ukraine" looks more like their big brother at the other side of the atlantic, just the PR is worse. Very Happy
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:22 am

    Phantom pains: Ukraine recalls the glory of Nikolaev shipbuilding
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2674842.html
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:46 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Phantom pains: Ukraine recalls the glory of Nikolaev shipbuilding
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2674842.html

    Accordindng to the article you posted, they destroyed the main slipway of the black sea shipyard, the one used to build aircraft carriers, to build there a grain terminal.

    Maybe they did it also to prevent Russia to "easily" rebuild the full capacity of the shipyard, like they did with Zaliv in Kerch, in case the south of Ukraine should follow the same path of Crimea in the future..

    Basically the ukrainians managed to do to the black sea shipyard something similar to what the Nazis did in WW2, who completely destroyed the plant before leaving Nikolaev, and Soviet Union had to rebuild it almost from scratches, in a long and expensive process...


    However, the problem is not only in the bankruptcy of the plant. According to Larisa Shesler, the hero of Ukraine, a grain trader and a great patriot Alexei Vadatursky seriously put his hand to the destruction of ChSZ.

    “Thanks to the construction of the Nibulon terminal, owned by Alexey Vadatursky, the wall of the Black Sea shipbuilding plant was cut. CSY possessed the longest wall for the construction of large ships, several hundred meters long. The Vadatursky terminal for receiving grain was built exactly in the middle of this wall and virtually forever prevented ChSZ from even starting to think about building ships. Perhaps the fact that Alexander Vadatursky was allowed to become one of the largest grain traders in the west was connected with the destruction of this wall, ”says Shesler.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:16 am

    It is not Russias problem now... and I am sure the US and EU wont lift a finger to help them either.

    They have made their bed...
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:14 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Phantom pains: Ukraine recalls the glory of Nikolaev shipbuilding
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2674842.html

    Accordindng to the article you posted, they destroyed the main slipway of the black sea shipyard, the one used to build aircraft carriers, to build there a grain terminal.

    Maybe they did it also to prevent Russia to "easily" rebuild the full capacity of the shipyard, like they did with Zaliv in Kerch, in case the south of Ukraine should follow the same path of Crimea in the future..

    Basically the ukrainians managed to do to the black sea shipyard something similar to what the Nazis did in WW2, who completely destroyed the plant before leaving Nikolaev, and Soviet Union had to rebuild it almost from scratches, in a long and expensive process...


    However, the problem is not only in the bankruptcy of the plant. According to Larisa Shesler, the hero of Ukraine, a grain trader and a great patriot Alexei Vadatursky seriously put his hand to the destruction of ChSZ.

    “Thanks to the construction of the Nibulon terminal, owned by Alexey Vadatursky, the wall of the Black Sea shipbuilding plant was cut. CSY possessed the longest wall for the construction of large ships, several hundred meters long. The Vadatursky terminal for receiving grain was built exactly in the middle of this wall and virtually forever prevented ChSZ from even starting to think about building ships. Perhaps the fact that Alexander Vadatursky was allowed to become one of the largest grain traders in the west was connected with the destruction of this wall, ”says Shesler.

    Maybe that was the retarded logic, but Russia is not going to grab the rest of Novorossyia any time soon. This shipyard was already falling apart and would have
    disintegrated by some hypothetical future Russian re-taking. This case brings up the mass mental deficiency of Ukrs. They would cut their nose off to spite
    their face. Or they are prepared to live in a 3rd world toilet as long as they feel that they have "stuck it to Russia".

    My question is what are these retards sticking it to Russia for? Holodomor? There was famine in the Donbass during the 1930s. Should Russians stick it to themselves?
    Of course Ukr pukes have come up with fairy tale where the Donbass was original pure Ukr land and the Ukrs died during the Holodomor allowing evil Moskals to move in.
    This is the sort of crap-think that makes the Ukr brain go round.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:24 am

    Their nationalist ideology is a cover for the elite's plundering of their country, enriching themselves & fleeing abroad, before Russia takes what's left of it.
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    Post  medo on Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:32 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Phantom pains: Ukraine recalls the glory of Nikolaev shipbuilding
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2674842.html

    Accordindng to the article you posted, they destroyed the main slipway of the black sea shipyard, the one used to build aircraft carriers, to build there a grain terminal.

    Maybe they did it also to prevent Russia to "easily" rebuild the full capacity of the shipyard, like they did with Zaliv in Kerch, in case the south of Ukraine should follow the same path of Crimea in the future..

    Basically the ukrainians managed to do to the black sea shipyard something similar to what the Nazis did in WW2, who completely destroyed the plant before leaving Nikolaev, and Soviet Union had to rebuild it almost from scratches, in a long and expensive process...


    However, the problem is not only in the bankruptcy of the plant. According to Larisa Shesler, the hero of Ukraine, a grain trader and a great patriot Alexei Vadatursky seriously put his hand to the destruction of ChSZ.

    “Thanks to the construction of the Nibulon terminal, owned by Alexey Vadatursky, the wall of the Black Sea shipbuilding plant was cut. CSY possessed the longest wall for the construction of large ships, several hundred meters long. The Vadatursky terminal for receiving grain was built exactly in the middle of this wall and virtually forever prevented ChSZ from even starting to think about building ships. Perhaps the fact that Alexander Vadatursky was allowed to become one of the largest grain traders in the west was connected with the destruction of this wall, ”says Shesler.

    Russia doesn't need Nikolaev shipyard anymore. They build two large shiopyards, one near Murmansk and Zvezda near Vladivostok, which will have enough big dry docks to build carriers. Russia could not build real carriers in Nikolaev as they could not sail real carriers through Bosporus. They have to made them as cruisers. In Murmansk and in Vladivostok they could build real carriers without limitations. Destroying Nikolaev shipyard only mean, that Ukraine will not be able to build large ships any more. Russia got Zaliv and More shipyards in Crimea and this is enough for their needs in Black sea.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:34 pm

    medo wrote:

    Russia doesn't need Nikolaev shipyard anymore. They build two large shiopyards, one near Murmansk and Zvezda near Vladivostok, which will have enough big dry docks to build carriers. Russia could not build real carriers in Nikolaev as they could not sail real carriers through Bosporus. They have to made them as cruisers. In Murmansk and in Vladivostok they could build real carriers without limitations. Destroying Nikolaev shipyard only mean, that Ukraine will not be able to build large ships any more. Russia got Zaliv and More shipyards in Crimea and this is enough for their needs in Black sea.

    True for Zvezda, but its larger docks will be needed also for supertankers and icebreakers. It cannot build everything at once.


    The new large dock being built in the shipryard n35 in murmansk is only for repairing and upgrading. As far as I understand, it is not meant for building new ships.
    So once Russia will have a carrier, they do will not need to bring it back on the yard where it was built for work, refurbishment, etc (basically using it the way the floating dock PD-50 was until last year).

    Concerning not be able to build real carriers in the black sea.... as long as they have one UKSK launcher and some redut launchers, they can call it aviation carrying cruiser, even if it is a 350 m long carrier weighting 90k tons Laughing  (and this is valid also for carriers eventually built in Zaliv.

    Additional shipyards will not be used only for the black sea fleet, as an example all of the slava class cruisers (and its predecessors, the kara class) were built in Shipyard named after 61 Baku Communards (Nikolaev north shipyard)

    I believe these shipyards have also a particular historical importance, since the Nikolaev north shipyard started building ships for the Russian imperial Navy in 1790, while the Nikolaev south (black sea shipyard, that much later built the soviet aircraft carriers) was built in 1895.

    Even the large battleships of imperial Russia, like the battleship Potiomkin, famous for the insurrection in 1905 (and the associated Eisenstein' film), were built there

    This has nothing to do with Ukraine.
    I believe that eventually all the southwestern coast of Ukraine (from Kherson to the Danube) will come back to Russia. Unfortunately at that point it is possible there will not be any industry in working shape.

    Even if that was the case, Nikolaev would be a perfect spot for building new shipyards.

    In Soviet times, many ships were built abroad, and now Russia is still buying ships in South Korea (hopefully this will  diminish, but not fully disappear) when Zvezda will operate at full capacity), so additional (warm water) shipyards would be for sure welcome.

    In the meanwhile the issue is just how many years will pass before that and how much ukrainian industries will continue to sink.
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    Post  medo on Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:38 pm

    New shipyard in Belokamenka near Murmansk and builded by Novatek, will have two 400 x 200 x 16 m dry docks. true, they build it for LNG platforms, but they could use them for building other big ships as well.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:51 pm

    medo wrote:New shipyard in Belokamenka near Murmansk and builded by Novatek, will have two 400 x 200 x 16 m dry docks. true, they build it for LNG platforms, but they could use them for building other big ships as well.

    Ah, yeah the Kola Shipyard.

    On top of that there is also the other rosneft shipyard in Murmansk, the former yard n82 which will have 2 "smaller" docks 200 meters long.

    However all of these infrastructures are absolutely needed for "civilian" shipbuilding and for artic projects and cannot be used also to build and repair military ships at the same time.

    That is the reason Russia is also upgrading existing shipyards, like Severnaya Verf in Saint Petersburg, (and of course Zvezda in Balshoi Kamen (that will be used, anyway mainly for civilian shipbuilding, and Zaliv in Kerch)

    Until now the majority of ships used in russia are bought abroad. The situation is probably changing, but it takes time (and possibility there are yet not enough yards, associated industries in the supply chain and trained workers for the all the needs in military, energy, fishing, and all other civilian areas)

    It is important, anyway, that Russia starts building large-scale military ships on its own before the fall of the ukrainian state, to show that it was not Russia that needed "ukrainian" industries and infrastructure, but the other way around.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:30 am

    Ukrainian mosquito fleet’s exercise of no operational interest to Russian Black Sea Fleet Very Happy
    https://tass.com/defense/1079840
    avatar
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    Post  Firebird on Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:56 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Ukrainian mosquito fleet’s exercise of no operational interest to Russian Black Sea Fleet  Very Happy
    https://tass.com/defense/1079840

    "The magnificent state of the art Azov battalion rowing boat class has no superior analogues worldwide".
    lol
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:12 pm


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