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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:03 am

    For an air defence missile a range of 400km is fine... it vastly exceeds any previous surface to air missile previously deployed by a long margin.

    Why not 500km... why not 1,000km... well 500km range costs more money and 1,000km would cost ridiculous money and it is not necessary.

    Draw a circle with a radius of 400km around an S-400 air defence battery and you get a circle 800km across where it is dangerous for enemy aircraft to enter or operate... why make the system heavier and more expensive and less mobile with larger heavier missiles when the 600km range S-500 is on its way?

    BTW to use that extra range the S-500 needs all new much more powerful radar and support equipment... stuff that is not needed for the shorter ranged S-400 which makes it more affordable to buy and to operate.

    It is cheaper to buy and operate a second S-400 battery than to make its missiles fly twice as far... even at the speed those missiles travel hitting targets at 500km would take several minutes... it makes rather more sense to just deploy a second battery 250km away from the original system whose missiles will hit targets much quicker.

    Don't be so fixated with pure numbers... in real combat very few targets will actually be engaged at 400km because if they can detect the launch all they have to do is turn around and fly away and by the time the missile gets there they will be at 450km range or more and so the missile would be wasted.


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    Austin

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:32 am

    GarryB wrote:For an air defence missile a range of 400km is fine... it vastly exceeds any previous surface to air missile previously deployed by a long margin.

    Why not 500km... why not 1,000km... well 500km range costs more money and 1,000km would cost ridiculous money and it is not necessary.

    Draw a circle with a radius of 400km around an S-400 air defence battery and you get a circle 800km across where it is dangerous for enemy aircraft to enter or operate... why make the system heavier and more expensive and less mobile with larger heavier missiles when the 600km range S-500 is on its way?

    BTW to use that extra range the S-500 needs all new much more powerful radar and support equipment... stuff that is not needed for the shorter ranged S-400 which makes it more affordable to buy and to operate.

    It is cheaper to buy and operate a second S-400 battery than to make its missiles fly twice as far... even at the speed those missiles travel hitting targets at 500km would take several minutes... it makes rather more sense to just deploy a second battery 250km away from the original system whose missiles will hit targets much quicker.

    Don't be so fixated with pure numbers... in real combat very few targets will actually be engaged at 400km because if they can detect the launch all they have to do is turn around and fly away and by the time the missile gets there they will be at 450km range or more and so the missile would be wasted.

    That thing can still work fine for air defence missile but I can also argue and say I would rather fire a 700 km range missile when the target is at 400 km and use the extra energy to work in my favour so that I dont end up coasting and loosing energy as I approach the target.

    Having said that I would still argue using a fat booster for 48N6E3 and 40N6 missile , these two are more oriented towards ABM goals the former has range of 250 km and latter 400 km.

    Now if THAAD can just add a fat booster and increase its range 3x means from 200 km to 600 km they can add a fat booster to 48N6E3 and 40N6 missile and increase range from 250 to 500 km and 400 to 800 km ( I am just counting 2x increase in range not 3 x )

    Now with that range you can to high atmospheric interception and use the fat booster energy to throw your missile up in the atmosphere and use the 2nd part of the missile or 2nd stage to fly futher and intercept the target.

    Longer range also afford you to defend a larger area else whats the point in having 40N6 with range of 400 km ?
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:04 pm

    Both THAAD and S-400 won't have problem hiting old missiles with huge RCS. The problem is that stealth is accessible to more and more countries, so the systems doesn't neeed longer range but better detection probablility.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Arrow on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:53 pm

    Still it was reported that it is.

    40N6 is propably bigger than 48N6DM and it need at bigger contaniner.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:18 am

    Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 am

    Austin wrote:
    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    Why show your cards to the enemy? F&&k the Yankistanis and their Eurotrash minions.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:48 am

    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    Because US and Russia have completely different philosophies when showing strength is concerned.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:38 am

    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    well, don't know. But countries confirm their ability to shoot down BM with S-300 like Iran did in recent exercises. Why no videos? Who knows.

    If your trying to insinuate that they can't shoot down BM hence why no videos, then your wasting our time.

    Edit: After reviewing videos, there isn't a whole lot of videos really depicting at what the S-300/400's are shooting at other than some of them mentioning target drones.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:58 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    well, don't know. But countries confirm their ability to shoot down BM with S-300 like Iran did in recent exercises. Why no videos? Who knows.

    If your trying to insinuate that they can't shoot down BM hence why no videos, then your wasting our time.

    Edit: After reviewing videos, there isn't a whole lot of videos really depicting at what the S-300/400's are shooting at other than some of them mentioning target drones.

    Yes I wonder why , I am sure they must have tested it with BM test , There was Almaz Antey report of 2011 which mentioned BM targets were used.

    May be they have very good reason to keep that closed chapter ........ AFAIK even S-300PMU2 are capable to hitting BM Target for MRBM class missile

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:02 am

    Austin wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Austin wrote:Here is newest video of PAC-3 MSE intercepting BM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb5FPS9TYE


    So far I have never seen a single video of S-300 or S-400 intercepting BM , Why dont the Russians too release such video ?

    There are quite a few video of S-300/400 intercepting AB targets but not BM

    well, don't know. But countries confirm their ability to shoot down BM with S-300 like Iran did in recent exercises. Why no videos? Who knows.

    If your trying to insinuate that they can't shoot down BM hence why no videos, then your wasting our time.

    Edit: After reviewing videos, there isn't a whole lot of videos really depicting at what the S-300/400's are shooting at other than some of them mentioning target drones.

    Yes I wonder why , I am sure they must have tested it with BM test , There was Almaz Antey report of 2011 which mentioned BM targets were used.

    May be they have very good reason to keep that closed chapter ........ AFAIK even S-300PMU2 are capable to hitting BM Target for MRBM class missile


    Iran tested theirs against ballistic missiles as well: https://www.rt.com/news/379427-iran-tests-russian-s300/

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:23 am

    Nice Point , S-300PMU2 is a very capable sytem
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:49 pm

    Austin - http://tass.com/defense/935588

    They will be testing the use of their radar and satellites to track ICBM launches. At end of article, they state they will also be doing live tests of anti-ICBM rolls. Don't expect videos but they are continuously testing their systems.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:13 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Austin - http://tass.com/defense/935588

    They will be testing the use of their radar and satellites to track ICBM launches.  At end of article, they state they will also be doing live tests of anti-ICBM rolls.  Don't expect videos but they are continuously testing their systems.

    Seriously, like we never even seen A-235 drills ever, but they go on often enough.
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 am

    Actually I remember in the 1990s a lot of western magazines criticising the Russians for their tests at airshows in the middle east and asia where real ballistic targets simulating Honest John and MRLS rockets were shot down by S-300 systems to show they work as advertised.

    Most of the criticism centred around the cost of such displays with each SAM launched costing quite a bit of money.

    The main problem with such video is that an incoming ballistic warhead is tiny and would not be very visible from the launch site.

    I rather suspect these days with UAVs used for filming exercises and drills these days that flying it to near the impact point of the incoming ballistic weapon that it could be used to film an interception... but I don't know why they would release such a video to the public as it would reveal such details as terminal interception accuracy and performance.

    Ie if side thruster rockets are used in the terminal phase or the performance of a directed blast warhead...


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  A1RMAN on Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:52 pm

    Russian army is gonna start getting S-500 system in 2018. (C) Borisov

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201704061453-qmzl.htm
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:29 am

    S-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space
    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/92260/

    Anti-aircraft missile system s-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space. This was reported by the commander of the air and missile defense Lieutenant General Victor gumenny.
    "Of course, maybe today is the deadline for development work, we recently adopted a new rocket that will allow us to work including in near space, at great distances and at great speeds," he said, commenting on the possibility of destruction of objects in near space by means of systems s-400.
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    kvs

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  kvs on Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:48 am

    miketheterrible wrote:S-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space
    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/92260/

    Anti-aircraft missile system s-400 started to get a missile that can destroy targets in near space. This was reported by the commander of the air and missile defense Lieutenant General Victor gumenny.
    "Of course, maybe today is the deadline for development work, we recently adopted a new rocket that will allow us to work including in near space, at great distances and at great speeds," he said, commenting on the possibility of destruction of objects in near space by means of systems s-400.

    That's the beauty of these systems. Now the S-400 can, together with the S-500, create a real ABM shield for Russia. It looks
    like development of the missile was given top priority and would be deployed regardless of the S-500 delivery schedule.

    One hopes the nutjobs running the lunatic asylum called NATO get the message. But that may be wishful thinking.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Austin on Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:48 am

    Defense Ministry: S-400 system is able to shoot down the target in near space

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4166388


    MOSCOW, April 8. / TASS /. Anti-aircraft missile system S-400 began to get adopted missiles capable of destroying targets in near space, said Saturday on the radio station " Echo of Moscow " the commander of the air and missile defense - Deputy Chief of the Russian VKS Lieutenant-General Viktor Gumennyy.

    "Of course, maybe today finishes development work, we have recently accepted a new rocket that will enable us to work even in near space, at long distances and at high speeds," - he said, commenting on the possibility of destroying objects at these altitudes using S-400 systems.

    S-400 "Triumph" - anti-aircraft missile system of long-range, put into service in 2007. It is designed to destroy aircraft, cruise and ballistic missiles, including medium-range, and can be used against ground targets.
    modern weaponry

    Victor Gumennyy also said that the share of modern weapons and military equipment forces air and missile defense Russia to January 1, 2018 will amount to almost 70%.

    "Today on the anti-aircraft missile troops, we have about 55% (of modern weapons - approx Tass.), On radio engineering troops - around 53%, to (the target level - approx Tass.) January 1, 2018 there are very few we believe. that under the state defense order for 100% on January 1, 2018 in our anti-aircraft missile troops and radio-technical troops share of modern weapons and military equipment close to 70%, that is, we go even ahead of schedule, "- he said.


    The general said that in radio engineering troops share of modern weapons and military equipment will be at 66%, and anti-aircraft missile troops - 68%.

    "By 1 January 2021, ie at the end of 2020, of course, we will carry out the decision of the Supreme Commander and the Minister of Defense and in the Army air and missile defense share of modern weapons is not less than 70%", - said Gumennyy.

    According to him, combat ready by this date will be 95-97% of all equipment.

    Flying over Moscow


    Lieutenant-General noted that aerospace forces of the Russian Federation are able to track the aircraft over the Russian capital at the height of 100 or more.

    "If earlier we radar field in the Moscow area of ​​responsibility of air defense the border was at the level of 400-600 meters, while today we have established a continuous radar field - 100 and even below 100 meters," - said the general.


    According to him, the experience gained will be used in other regions of the country.

    "Keys to Heaven"

    Gumennyy also said that six foreign teams will participate in this year's competition in the defense, "Keys to Heaven."

    "This year we connected Algeria, Iran, and Armenia, so it will be much more difficult," - he told reporters.
    In addition, the competition will be attended by teams from China, Belarus, Kazakhstan.


    The general said that now the army is preparing for the All-Army stage of the competition "The keys to the sky", which will determine the best Russian combat crews of anti-aircraft missile systems S-400, S-300PM, S-300PS,
    armored anti-aircraft missile and gun complexes "Pantsir- FROM". They will represent our country at the international competition "The keys to the sky-2017".

    "We took into account the peculiarities of the competition in 2016, and I promise that this year it will be more dynamic and spectacular," - said the general.


    Aerospace defense

    According Gumenny, videoconferencing Russia must be prepared not only for defensive, but also offensive to defend the air space of the country.

    "The specifics of Russia's geostrategic position is that the main threat to its military security are groups of air and space attack foreign countries. The experience of military conflicts of the last decades shows that a defensive war problems can not be solved. It is typical for the aerospace sphere of armed struggle "- Gumennyy said.

    According to him, in connection with the Russian aerospace defense must be an active, mobile and carry the offensive nature. "This means that you need not only to destroy the means of aerospace attack during the flight, but also hit the aircraft on the ground, destroying carriers enemy precision weapons, including surface ships and submarines, to suppress enemy air control system, reduce the effectiveness of the constellation cosmic enemy units, "- said Lieutenant General.

    He recalled that FSI is a branch of the armed forces, able to conduct both a defensive and offensive actions. "In this case, under the unified leadership to solve a wide range of tasks for the protection of our country against attack from the air and space, the defeat of enemy targets, launch and management of military spacecraft," - said Gumennyy.

    S-500 Systems

    Deputy Commander of the Russian VKS told reporters that anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM), S-500 entered service in the aerospace forces of the Russian Federation in the near future.

    "Air Defense Forces carried out a massive re-equip troops with new air defense system. It is already widely known not only in our country but also abroad complexes" Carapace-C "and C-400. And in the near future is expected inflow anti-aircraft missile systems S-350 "Hero" and S-500, a number of promising radar "- Gumennyy said.


    According to him, all the complexes and radars designed on modern element base, with maximum automation of all processes and operations of fighting work and, consequently, high combat effectiveness, combined with ease of use and maintenance.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Viktor on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:20 pm

    Enjoy   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

    Everything we wanted to know about S-400 summed up

    http://s400.tass.ru/tipy-ispolzuemyh-raket/

    - 16 9M96 class missiles per launcher each 120km in range and 40km in altitude.
    - 40N6 four per launcher - 400km range
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    mack8

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  mack8 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:51 pm

    Guys, do you think this is this an accurate representation of S-500 or just fan art speculation? Thanks.
    https://twitter.com/ArmyRecognition/status/851847834072748032
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Benya on Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:50 am

    Viktor wrote:Enjoy   Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

    Everything we wanted to know about S-400 summed up

    http://s400.tass.ru/tipy-ispolzuemyh-raket/

    - 16 9M96 class missiles per launcher each 120km in range and 40km in altitude.
    - 40N6 four per launcher - 400km range

    16 missiles from 4 launching tubes? How? It is just interesting to me.

    Another question in my mind is that did the Russians started to field the 40N6 missiles for their S-400s?

    mack8 wrote:Guys, do you think this is this an accurate representation of S-500 or just fan art speculation? Thanks.
    https://twitter.com/ArmyRecognition/status/851847834072748032

    Actually, its design is closer to the A-235 "Nudol" ABM. I remember that I have posted the exact same picture to the Nudol thread.

    Here is the link to it:
    Arrow http://www.russiadefence.net/t4725p50-a235-nudol-asat-and-abm-system#184520
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:50 am

    16 missiles from 4 launching tubes? How? It is just interesting to me.

    That is the smaller missiles... four missiles to each large tube.

    There were large and small smaller missiles called 9M96 and 9M96D or something, with the smaller missiles with a range of about 60km and the larger missiles with a range of about 120km... the basis of the S-350 system really.


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    16 missiles from 4 launching tubes? How? It is just interesting to me.

    That is the smaller missiles... four missiles to each large tube.

    There were large and small smaller missiles called 9M96 and 9M96D or something, with the smaller missiles with a range of about 60km and the larger missiles with a range of about 120km... the basis of the S-350 system really.

    Did they start production of S-350 ? It's the land base redut system. It's interesting to see that the naval version was the first and that they developed land version after. The tradition is to navalize land versions. Maybe that's why they have issues with redut.
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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:52 am

    Naval models often take longer so I suspect they probably started the naval version first.

    The TOR system took a very long time in the naval version... ships went to sea with the vertical launch tubes for the missiles but no tracking and guidance sensors for years.


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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:47 pm

    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20130514181146715-5-Questions-on-Russian-S-300-Missile-Complex-Sales-to-Syria/

    One S-300 missile system is estimated by experts to cost some $115 million, plus $1 million or so per missile.)

    If it's 1 million $ per missile and 115 million$ per system, it's not cheap ... the same price as tomahawks. Mmaybe they should transform them to carry cruise missiles as they are offensive weapons instead of defensive missiles ...

    What are the prices of first S-300P modeles that Russia is replacing ? Maybe poor countries can have some of them, they can still be usefull for low intensity wars.

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