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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:27 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    Austin wrote:Boeing Signs $12 Bln Deal to Sell Giant Cargo Planes to Russian Freight Firms

    https://sputniknews.com/business/201807171066439769-boeing-cargo-planes-russia/

    If that actually happens, its outrageous. Its like selling sand to the Arabs. 12bn is not far off Russia's whole arms exports worldwide in one year. Russia should build modernised Antonovs in Russia and tell the hohols to go and suck dick. Is it any surprise that Russian civil aviation got so fucked up? Russia is still buying off a country that's trying to destroy it! Absolutely pathetic and cowardly.

    There's no other product in the market, 747-8F is simply the best for Volga Dnepr. Same with future 777Fs. Unless you want them to fly soviet era, Ukrainian-powered junk; around the globe. Well, they do buy token numbers of that, for obvious reasons, but their core business cannot be built around local jobs program platforms.

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:35 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    Austin wrote:Boeing Signs $12 Bln Deal to Sell Giant Cargo Planes to Russian Freight Firms

    https://sputniknews.com/business/201807171066439769-boeing-cargo-planes-russia/

    If that actually happens, its outrageous. Its like selling sand to the Arabs. 12bn is not far off Russia's whole arms exports worldwide in one year. Russia should build modernised Antonovs in Russia and tell the hohols to go and suck dick. Is it any surprise that Russian civil aviation got so fucked up? Russia is still buying off a country that's trying to destroy it! Absolutely pathetic and cowardly.


    And what particular cargo aircraft that Russia produces today is comparable to 747?

    You are saying that entire cargo company should go under rather than purchase new aircraft?
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:08 pm

    But how, with sanctions in place, can this be allowed by the US authorities? These are potential dual use aircraft.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:09 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    Austin wrote:Boeing Signs $12 Bln Deal to Sell Giant Cargo Planes to Russian Freight Firms

    https://sputniknews.com/business/201807171066439769-boeing-cargo-planes-russia/

    If that actually happens, its outrageous. Its like selling sand to the Arabs. 12bn is not far off Russia's whole arms exports worldwide in one year. Russia should build modernised Antonovs in Russia and tell the hohols to go and suck dick. Is it any surprise that Russian civil aviation got so fucked up? Russia is still buying off a country that's trying to destroy it! Absolutely pathetic and cowardly.

    Perhaps UAC should develop a proper cargo aircraft (i.e. one with efficient engines) that can compete with this option before
    screaming about cowardice. Russia is still digging itself out of Yeltsin's toilet. Believe or not most of the redevelopment
    action has begun in the last 10 years. All the complainers need to grow up and buy a clue. It will take another 20 years
    easy to keep crawling out of Yeltsin's hole. And that is actually rather spectacular progress. If malcontents are not happy
    then they should bugger on off to NATO and live it up.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:10 pm

    JohninMK wrote:But how, with sanctions in place, can this be allowed by the US authorities? These are potential dual use aircraft.

    Money does not smell. And most of NATO needs hard cash desperately.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:13 pm

    JohninMK wrote:But how, with sanctions in place, can this be allowed by the US authorities? These are potential dual use aircraft.

    I don't think the Russian Air Force has the money, crews and capacity to directly operate 23 Boeing 777Fs. They barely operate a dozen of An-124.
    They will just contract them out from Volga Dnepr like, NATO did with An-124s in Afghanistan.

    Everyone's happy.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:24 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    Austin wrote:Boeing Signs $12 Bln Deal to Sell Giant Cargo Planes to Russian Freight Firms

    https://sputniknews.com/business/201807171066439769-boeing-cargo-planes-russia/

    If that actually happens, its outrageous. Its like selling sand to the Arabs. 12bn is not far off Russia's whole arms exports worldwide in one year. Russia should build modernised Antonovs in Russia and tell the hohols to go and suck dick. Is it any surprise that Russian civil aviation got so fucked up? Russia is still buying off a country that's trying to destroy it! Absolutely pathetic and cowardly.

    Russia is 10-15 years away from building anything even remotely comparable to 777s.

    And they already cant fly 124s to certain airports due to new noise level reductions. So either stop flying to half of the world or buy aircraft from the people that can build them. Aeroflot flies almost entirely on Airbus...
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:28 pm

    Militarov wrote:And they already cant fly 124s to certain airports due to new noise level reductions. So either stop flying to half of the world or buy aircraft from the people that can build them. Aeroflot flies almost entirely on Airbus...

    And their product is amazing. If they were still flying loud, modified Soviet junk like the Il-86, I wouldn't fly them.
    The market is always right here, Russian companies need to compete globally.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:28 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Firebird wrote:
    Austin wrote:Boeing Signs $12 Bln Deal to Sell Giant Cargo Planes to Russian Freight Firms

    https://sputniknews.com/business/201807171066439769-boeing-cargo-planes-russia/

    If that actually happens, its outrageous. Its like selling sand to the Arabs. 12bn is not far off Russia's whole arms exports worldwide in one year. Russia should build modernised Antonovs in Russia and tell the hohols to go and suck dick. Is it any surprise that Russian civil aviation got so fucked up? Russia is still buying off a country that's trying to destroy it! Absolutely pathetic and cowardly.

    Russia is 10-15 years away from building anything even remotely comparable to 777s.

    And they already cant fly 124s to certain airports due to new noise level reductions. So either stop flying to half of the world or buy aircraft from the people that can build them. Aeroflot flies almost entirely on Airbus...

    Trollers gotta troll.  Haters gotta hate.

    You are spewing BS about the 777.   The only issue is the engines and Russia finally has the capacity to build efficient, high
    bypass turbofans.    The first generation, the PD-14 is too small for a 777 class widebody.   But the next generation coming
    in about 7 years, the PD-35, will close any gap.    You can go and wank your NATO chauvinist dick elsewhere.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:32 pm

    kvs wrote:The first generation, the PD-14 is too small for a 777 class widebody.   But the next generation coming
    in about 7 years, the PD-35, will close any gap.

    Close the gap with 1994, in 2024. Gotcha  silent
    Meanwhile the world has moved on.

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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:15 am

    kvs wrote:

    Trollers gotta troll.  Haters gotta hate.

    You are spewing BS about the 777.   The only issue is the engines and Russia finally has the capacity to build efficient, high
    bypass turbofans.    The first generation, the PD-14 is too small for a 777 class widebody.   But the next generation coming
    in about 7 years, the PD-35, will close any gap.    You can go and wank your NATO chauvinist dick elsewhere.

    Yea... i wish not every single of your posts was the same... NATO this... NATO that... my dick this.. my dick that... haters that.. haters this...

    Oh.. the only issue is the engine... great.. but GE90-115B is now what... 25 years old engine? Abit more if we count the start of the development. So closing the gap is not the term i would personally use, closing a blackhole is the more suitable term. Then there is GE9X...

    There is no development for civilian cargo freighter in Russia at this moment, repurposed replacements for An-124 are decades ago most likely, Chino-Rus widebody liner too... so... yea, Russia is 10-15 years away from bulding anything even remotely similar to 777. You can like it or not.. but its called reality.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:15 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:The first generation, the PD-14 is too small for a 777 class widebody.   But the next generation coming
    in about 7 years, the PD-35, will close any gap.

    Close the gap with 1994, in 2024. Gotcha  silent
    Meanwhile the world has moved on.


    NATO fanboy.... Suspect
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:30 am

    Is it that much complicated for iliouchin to build an An-124 modernized ?

    It seems to me that when russia needs something in big numbers for normal tasks (like a cargo plane, a frigate class to make the navy bigger, a new small fighter to replace mig-29 for reducing costs for "light tasks" instead of using expensive sukhoi...) they design something they can't build because it is too much advanced like gorshkov or like the pak Ta design they proposed in a video.

    A cargo plane is a big empty solid plane with big engines nothing more. They have all the companies for building that. What are their engineers doing at work ? Seriously ?
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:50 am

    Isos wrote:A cargo plane is a big empty solid plane with big engines nothing more. They have all the companies for building that. What are their engineers doing at work ? Seriously ?

    The problem is mostly the lack of those 'big engines' and associated gas turbine base in Russia. The US and Britain are the sole, global powers in that market. China is still struggling to make it. The USSR just about made it to the club, even leading for just a few years, before collapsing.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Nibiru

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Nibiru on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:59 am

    The problem is mostly the lack of those 'big engines' and associated gas turbine base in Russia.
    The US and Britain are the sole, global powers in that market.

    Russia shouldn't be having these problems if the Soviets didn't put their advanced aircraft design bureaus and manufacturing facilities in Ukrainian SSR..
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:05 am

    Nibiru wrote:
    The problem is mostly the lack of those 'big engines' and associated gas turbine base in Russia.
    The US and Britain are the sole, global powers in that market.

    Russia shouldn't be having these problems if the Soviets didn't put their advanced aircraft design bureaus and manufacturing facilities in Ukrainian SSR..

    True.



    Interesting comparison, just to understand reality right now. GE90 is simply a beast.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:14 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Isos wrote:A cargo plane is a big empty solid plane with big engines nothing more. They have all the companies for building that. What are their engineers doing at work ? Seriously ?

    The problem is mostly the lack of those 'big engines' and associated gas turbine base in Russia. The US and Britain are the sole, global powers in that market. China is still struggling to make it. The USSR just about made it to the club, even leading for just a few years, before collapsing.

    They have saturn, klimov, united engine corporation as companies that produce engines for planes and probably other I don't know. It should be easy for all those engineers to produced a decent engine. Like I said there is no need to have futuristic technology. Just something competitive with a good reliability.

    marat

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  marat on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:34 am

    Austin wrote:An agreement was signed for the supply of 10 SSJ-100 and 10 MS-21 in Peru

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/109685/

    Not "firm" agreement, just Letter of Intention, i hope "real" agreement will follow.
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    Nibiru

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Nibiru on Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:58 am


    Not "firm" agreement, just Letter of Intention, i hope "real" agreement will follow.


    I hope so too, but what if US threaten Sanctions just because its "Russian" product? We'll see how this deal goes
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:06 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:

    Interesting comparison, just to understand reality right now. GE90 is simply a beast.

    An engine with a diameter similar to the fuselage of a SSJ-100, that's some blade to have to make.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:20 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:

    Interesting comparison, just to understand reality right now. GE90 is simply a beast.

    An engine with a diameter similar to the fuselage of a SSJ-100, that's some blade to have to make.

    Try 737 pirat

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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Isos on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:47 pm

    Why don't they order Il-96-400T as a big cargo ? It carries 92T max which is not far from cargo 747 variant.

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:28 pm

    Isos wrote:Why don't they order Il-96-400T as a big cargo ? It carries 92T max which is not far from cargo 747 variant.

    I was thinking the same , whats the point funding Boeing
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:06 pm

    Austin wrote:
    Isos wrote:Why don't they order Il-96-400T as a big cargo ? It carries 92T max which is not far from cargo 747 variant.

    I was thinking the same , whats the point funding Boeing

    Boeing just makes better cargo planes. The Il-96 (whatever cargo version) has a horribly inefficient power-plant arrangement, narrow and rather small fuselage and severely outdated design of weak, RB211ish engines; straight from the late 80s.

    Also this:



    ..is better than that:



    music
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Isos on Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:49 pm

    Boeing just makes better cargo planes. The Il-96 (whatever cargo version) has a horribly inefficient power-plant arrangement, narrow and rather small fuselage and severely outdated design of weak, RB211ish engines; straight from the late 80s.

    Who cares if it is a little bit better. Il-96 can do the work. They can also update the design since it was designed in the 90s. Not that much complicated and they already have russian engines for it.

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