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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:43 pm

    Hole wrote:Russia should put up some special fund and order a few dozen Tu-204/-214 for all its agencys and ministries that still fly outdated planes like Yak-40/-42, Il-18, Tu-134 and so on.

    Nope

    MS-21 is way too close and window of opportunity for Tu-214 closed during romance era with the West

    If Iran wants new airplanes they are free to order whatever they want and from whoever is willing to sell them but given their determination to purchase only Boeing or Airbus I would not waste too much time hoping they go for Russian aircraft
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am

    It will be a few years until the MS-21 production rate is up.

    The procurement of Airings and Boebuses was a gift. A bribe for western politicians. Iran learned another lesson. Only Russia is reliable.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:06 pm

    Hole wrote:It will be a few years until the MS-21 production rate is up.

    The procurement of Airings and Boebuses was a gift. A bribe for western politicians. Iran learned another lesson. Only Russia is reliable.


    The same years will take to build factories to build Tu-204 in proper amounts. With resources restricted resources this is right decision IMHO. Iran wasnt about they wanted to buy in west. thi was the only way to get their money back in any form...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:24 pm

    Hole wrote:It will be a few years until the MS-21 production rate is up.

    The procurement of Airings and Boebuses was a gift. A bribe for western politicians. Iran learned another lesson. Only Russia is reliable.

    Iran is free to put an order and payment for MS-21

    They waited several decades for Airbus and Boeing so I am sure they can wait several years for MS-21
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:44 pm

    PJSC OAK and COMAC have coordinated a general view of the CR929 plane

    On June 6 United Aircraft Corporation (PJSC OAK) and "The Chinese corporation of civil aircraft industry" (COMAC) have coordinated a general view of the widebody long-haul CR929 plane. Agreements on the main geometrical characteristics of the aircraft are reached: scope and a form I covered, the fuselage length, the sizes of a nasal and tail part of the fuselage, the sizes and a form of plumage, an arrangement of engines, chassis and doors. The general view of the plane based on results of the stage Gate 2 was coordinated by the joint Russian-Chinese engineering JET-team team which is headed by the chief designer with the Russian side Maxim Litvinov and the chief designer with the Chinese side Chen Inchun.

    "Coordination of a general view of the CR929 plane by the parties – the major step for further formation of uniform technical shape of planes of the CR929 family. It provides transition to a stage of full-scale joint study of a design and the systems of the plane, including, within works with potential suppliers of the equipment and components", - the chief designer with the Russian side Maxim Litvinov has said at a ceremony of signing by the parties of the scheme of a general view of the CR929 plane.

    Chen Inchun, the chief designer of CR929 from the Chinese side, has congratulated the team of engineers of Russia and China and has noted the importance of a stage of coordination of a general view of the CR929 plane for further work on the program.

    The CR929 program is at the stage Gate-3. Except coordination of a general view of the plane, it includes carrying out experimental research works in the field of aerodynamics, the choice of constructional materials, the analysis of technical offers of potential suppliers of key systems and the equipment. Completion of these works and passing of the stage Gate-3 is expected to the middle of 2019.

    http://uacrussia.ru/ru/press-center/news/pao-oak-i-somas-soglasovali-obshchiy-vid-samoleta-cr929
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:18 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Hole wrote:It will be a few years until the MS-21 production rate is up.

    The procurement of Airings and Boebuses was a gift. A bribe for western politicians. Iran learned another lesson. Only Russia is reliable.


    The same years will take to build factories to build Tu-204 in proper amounts. With resources restricted resources this is  right decision IMHO. Iran wasnt about they wanted to buy in west. thi was the only way to get their  money back in any form...

    The factory for the Tu-204/-214 is already there. The Tu-214 is build in different special versions for the state, but only two or three a year. A few billions more and this could be ten or fifteen a year.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:21 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hole wrote:It will be a few years until the MS-21 production rate is up.

    The procurement of Airings and Boebuses was a gift. A bribe for western politicians. Iran learned another lesson. Only Russia is reliable.

    Iran is free to put an order and payment for MS-21

    They waited several decades for Airbus and Boeing so I am sure they can wait several years for MS-21

    Right.
    F... ing politics. The SSJ100 could be build in Iran it they want it (150 - 200 orders and Russia would be ready).
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:11 pm

    [quote="Hole"
    The factory for the Tu-204/-214 is already there. The Tu-214 is build in different special versions for the state, but only two or three a year. A few billions more and this could be ten or fifteen a year.[/quote]

    and 6-8 years to train workers and build It systems and logistics. In short cheaper to go for MS-21 Smile
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:59 pm

    The Workers are also there. They build this two to three planes and could build ten or more if the state would order them. Let´s say another ten Tu-214R´s for the military. Or the new Tu-214 version as flying command post. Or simply the VIP version.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:34 am

    Hole wrote:The Workers are also there. They build this two to three planes and could build ten or more if the state would order them. Let´s say another ten Tu-214R´s for the military. Or the new Tu-214 version as flying command post. Or simply the VIP version.

    nom they cannot. This is max what can they do. It is alos old 90s technology. Olr assembly lines. Documentation . To few people. You need to invest comparable resources to build outdated liner which is not needed anybody then invest in a prospective one? So why Audi doesnt produce Quattro anymore? good car
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:55 am

    New 19-seat aircraft will be presented at the end of the year
    7/06/2018

    YKTIMES.RU - Scientists from the Siberian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation (SibNIA) named after SA Chaplygin will present a prototype of Russia's first 19-seat aircraft by the end of 2018. The aircraft will be adapted for Russian conditions and cheap in service, SIBNIA's research supervisor Alexei Serzionov told TASS on Wednesday .

    "By the end of the year, we will demonstrate a prototype of a 19-seat aircraft that will be adapted for Russian conditions, and its service will be no more than $ 250 per hour, like a similar US aircraft. <...> Now the world's aircraft maintenance costs about $ 1,500 per hour, "he said.

    Seriousov specified that the class of 19-seat aircraft in Russia has not yet been submitted. According to him, such an aircraft will be in demand for the northern regions of the country, for example, in Yakutia.

    "Now there [in Yakutia] Canadian planes fly. Our aircraft will be able to travel long distances and will be more suitable for flights in the cold, "he added

    http://www.yktimes.ru/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8/novyiy-19-mestnyiy-samolet-predstavyat-v-kontse-goda/
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:56 am

    Il-96-400M will be named - Il-496

    http://www.yktimes.ru/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8/il-96-400m-poluchit-nazvanie-il-496/
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    Post  Hole on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:56 am

    How could you call the Tu-214 outdated? Its operating costs are a little bit higher than newer planes. But it is much better than all the Tu-134, Tu-154 and Il-18 still flying around. Also the military doens´t care about 100g more fuel burned per km. They sould replace this old planes asap and this is only possible with the Tu-204/-214 because in the first five years or so the MS-21 will only be build in a normal passenger version for commercial use, so the military will have to wait. After that business and VIP versions and possibly a cargo version will emerge, but it will be a long time until special mission versions will be ready. This gap has to be filled.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:33 pm

    Hole wrote:How could you call the Tu-214 outdated?

    designed in 1990s  and Ms-21 is  +25 years younger? There is nothing wrong with Tu-204 just resources are too scarce so you have to decide Tu or Ms-21. BTW there's nothing wrong with old Mercedes why do they build only new models?!



    Austin wrote:New 19-seat aircraft will be presented at the end of the year
    7/06/2018

    and what's wrong with An-2 "new edition" ?






    "Ilyushin" together with "Kronstadt" will create a transport drones

    Enterprises are considering the possibility of creating a UAV on the basis of IL-112
    MOSCOW, June 9. / TASS /. The company "Ilyushin" will develop a transport unmanned aerial vehicle for cargo transportation together with the group "Kronstadt", the possibility of creating a UAV on the IL-112 base is being considered. The press service of the company told journalists.

    According to the press service, "Ilyushin" and "Kronstadt" signed a memorandum on the establishment of a joint working group, whose goal will be "research and development in the field of transport unmanned aerial systems." "Currently, the possibility of creating a demonstrator as a new design and on the basis of a light transport IL-112 airplane is being considered," the press service of Ilyushin specified.

    As the head of Ilyushin Alexei Rogozin, whose words is quoted by the press service, it is a transport drones, which could solve the problem of cargo transportation to remote areas with difficult accessibility. "And given the active development of the Arctic, it can be assumed that aircraft capable of autonomously transporting up to several tons of cargo from one point to another, will be highly demanded," Rogozin added.

    At the first stage, it is planned to create a roadmap, where research directions, criteria for their selection and analysis of existing solutions will be prescribed. From the "Kronstadt" will be involved Center for Advanced Research, from "Ilyushin" - created in the Moscow region Zhukovsky Center for Aerospace Technologies. VM Myasishchev, who will then become the main platform within this working group.

    According to Kirill Dybko, executive director of the Kronshtadt group, "working together with PJSC" IL "will allow us to optimize the time and resources, and therefore, the first to create answers to market demands."

    About the fact that "Ilyushin" is considering the possibility of creating a cargo drones, including not the IL-112, Tass reported in January this year, Chief Designer PJSC "IL" Nikolai Talikov.

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/ekonomika/5278442
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:32 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:.
    Austin wrote:New 19-seat aircraft will be presented at the end of the year
    7/06/2018

    and what's wrong with An-2 "new edition" ?
    ......

    Nothing. Baikal (ex An-2) just went into serial production today in Ulan-Ade:

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/108139/

    Also, Baikal's capacity is 12 passengers, not 19.

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    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:21 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:and what's wrong with An-2 "new edition" ?
    This is a totally different plane, a jet based on the Yak-40, but also completely reworked with composite materials and 2 engines instead of 3.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:23 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:and what's wrong with An-2 "new edition" ?
    This is a totally different plane, a jet based on the Yak-40, but also completely reworked with composite materials and 2 engines instead of 3.

    I don't think it's Yak-40​ derivative because stock Yak-40 has more than 30 passenger seats.
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    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:25 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:and what's wrong with An-2 "new edition" ?
    This is a totally different plane, a jet based on the Yak-40, but also completely reworked with composite materials and 2 engines instead of 3.

    I don't think it's Yak-40​ derivative because stock Yak-40 has more than 30 passenger seats.
    Yes, you are right. SibNIA announced they will present their composite Yak-40 at the end of the year and I thought the article referred to this plane.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:58 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:and what's wrong with An-2 "new edition" ?
    This is a totally different plane, a jet based on the Yak-40, but also completely reworked with composite materials and 2 engines instead of 3.

    I don't think it's Yak-40​ derivative because stock Yak-40 has more than 30 passenger seats.
    Yes, you are right. SibNIA announced they will present their composite Yak-40 at the end of the year and I thought the article referred to this plane.

    I can't wait to see final product

    If they manage to get with composite Yak-40 even close to numbers they got when they converted An-2 into Baikal it will revolutionize regional air travel
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:53 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I can't wait to see final product
    If they manage to get with composite Yak-40 even close to numbers they got when they converted An-2 into Baikal it will revolutionize regional air travel

    me too then. Anyway with lowering prices and increased mobility economy also profits enormously. And with size of Russia regional mobility is utmost important.

    BTW Lads perhaps Rysachok "reinvented"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technoavia_Rysachok  =>Capacity: up to 19 passengers (longer version)

    http://bastion-opk.ru/rysachek-maks-2011/



    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 34 Rysochek_MAKS-2011_12

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 34 F_Y3M0Mzk1LnZrb250YWt0ZS5ydS91MTAxMjI0ODg4LzExMzkyNTk3Mi94X2ZjMjE1NTA3LmpwZw==

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 34 Rysochek_MAKS-2011_28

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    Post  Hole on Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:13 pm

    Problem is there are to many really small regional airlines. The will have problems to find the money to modernise. Mergers could help. Or a state fund. Isn´t there a state leasing company? It should order larger numbers of all this new planes and lease them cheaply to the small companies.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:14 pm

    Hole wrote:Problem is there are to many really small regional airlines. The will have problems to find the money to modernise. Mergers could help. Or a state fund. Isn´t there a

    state leasing company

    ? It should order larger numbers of all this new planes and lease them cheaply to the small companies.

    That's the idea behind all that small planes I believe. But you know -> leasing , money it is just 5th column Razz Razz Razz
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    Post  Dima on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:09 pm

    Hole wrote:How could you call the Tu-214 outdated?
    For most western fanboys and genuinely ill read people Tu-204 might represent an outdated aircraft. Unfortunately, the complete lack of sales for Tu-204 class of aircraft for which the aircraft itself or the company has no direct hand is often considered as the benchmark for considering the aircraft to be an out dated design.

    Regardless of the often formed opinion of it being an outdated aircraft by those ill read people, it still is in the class of whats flying in the form of B737 and A320 series. Its simply that MS-21 is more advanced than all the above three in its construction, materials used and design.

    But Tu-204 was top class and it retained those qualities except for in sales. For example (below article, from another forum), we get to know few design feats of the Tu-204...

    Its designers says Tu-204's 22 meter wings doesn't have a single joint.
    They also say that, compared to the aircraft it was meant to replace, the Tu-154, the Tu-204 had 70% lesser body joints!
    Not sure if Airbus and Boeing also claim such feats on their aircrafts which it replaced?

    I wonder if MS-21 can come up with such a figure as to how much of an improvement it has over the basic Tu-204 airframe and body joints.
    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 34 Attachment
    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 34 Attachment

    Its operating costs are a little bit higher than newer planes. But it is much better than all the Tu-134, Tu-154 and Il-18 still flying around. Also the military doens´t care about 100g more fuel burned per km. They sould replace this old planes asap and this is only possible with the Tu-204/-214 because in the first five years or so the MS-21 will only be build in a normal passenger version for commercial use, so the military will have to wait. After that business and VIP versions and possibly a cargo version will emerge, but it will be a long time until special mission versions will be ready. This gap has to be filled.
    Yes. Moreover there is a need for more special mission aircrafts like MPA. IL-38/20/22s are not going to be flying for indefinite period and there need to be replacement, which can only come from the Tu-204 family.

    In addition, MS-21 is not running into multiple 1000s in orders, its order number is still modest and there is not yet a situation which warrant all the production lines to be that of MS-21 so as to meet the customer demand.

    MS-21 is not going to be cheaper than Tu-204 and there is a need to have a Tu-204 production line, particularly the updated 2-crew Tu-204SM.
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    Post  Dima on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:21 pm

    Austin wrote:Il-96-400M will be named - Il-496

    http://www.yktimes.ru/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8/il-96-400m-poluchit-nazvanie-il-496/

    Posting the full translation.

    Il-96-400M will be called – Il-496
    28.03.2018

    YKTIMES.RU – the Future of the Russian wide-body long-haul passenger aircraft Il-96-400M expects rebranding. He will receive a new designation — Il-496, according to “Izvestia”. According to the newspaper, a fundamental decision has been made, but in official documents this name will begin to appear next year. The first prototype will be built before the end of 2019. According to experts, the market for such aircraft in Russia. But the project Il-96-400 important from the point of view of competence development in the aircraft industry.

    As told "Izvestia" three sources in the aviation industry familiar with the situation that is created in OJSC "Il" wide-body long-haul airliner will receive a new designation — Il-496. This decision has been approved in principle at the government level.

    — The need for rebranding stems from the fact that the new aircraft is not simply a modification of Il-96, and its deep modernization. In fact we are talking about the new plane, — said one of the interlocutors.

    PJSC "Il", the company — developer of the aircraft, "news" did not comment on the plans of rebranding. He added, however, that count before the end of this year to prepare all the technical documentation for the construction of the first prototype Il-96-400M.

    — Features of the aircraft designed will be the installation of a modern domestic navigation equipment and a modern passenger cabin, which will provide comfortable conditions for passengers, — noted in press service of "Ilyushin". — Presentation of Il-96-400M is scheduled for late 2019.

    Domestic navigation equipment in this case includes an inertial system (is responsible for determining the position of the aircraft in space), the defendants (automatically transmit the data of ground-based radar), navigation and landing. At the first stage in 2018-2019 such systems it is planned to equip all aircraft Il-96-300.

    Program for the creation of Il-96-400M involves the production of one prototype and six production aircraft. Construction of the first prototype aircraft factory in Voronezh is planned for the end of 2019, the first batch of aircraft for the year 2020. In the same year it is planned to complete the certification tests of the liner.

    In a press-service of the Ministry "Izvestia" said that the implementation of the project Il-96-400M is in accordance with the approved schedule. Work receive funding within the limits of means of the Federal budget.

    According to the chief editor of "air transport review" Alexey Sinitsky, the niche is wide-body long-haul aircraft in Russia is small — is operated a little more than 80 machines of this class. More than 60% of them in the group of companies "Aeroflot", several cars have with Utair, the rest from tourist carriers. These liners can be used in the far East of the Russian Federation or in the international tourist routes. In special versions of the aircraft can be of interest to specialized contractors.

    — Il-96-400 in its current form on economic characteristics and equipment remains at the level of the previous generation of aircraft. But it is not much cheaper than new modern liners of foreign manufacture. Cost of ownership over the life cycle, the loss is tremendous, said Alexei Sinitsky.

    Nevertheless, the project Il-96-400M should help the domestic aviation industry to maintain competence and to load capacity. In the long term civil range of aircraft must be replenished widebody airliner of the new generation, which Russia started together with Chinese partners Corporation COMAC.

    Il-96-400M is created as an elongated modification of passenger Il-96-300. Takeoff weight of the new ship will be 270 so the Plane can carry up to 400 passengers. This car will be used avionics, materials and components manufactured in Russia. As previously wrote "Izvestia", the total planned budget of the program of creation of ship — 53.4 billion rubles.

    Yevgeny Devyatyarov, Alexander Kruglov.
    I hope the deep modernisation for the IL-96-400M also involve outer design changes as well and those being developed for CR929 is incorporated into this. The best thing to happen would be a CR-929 fuselage for the IL-96-400M with regular wings and 4-engines.
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    Post  Dima on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:25 pm

    Austin wrote:Craic CR929 Now Larger Than Airbus A330
    May 23, 2018 Bradley Perrett and Maxim Pyadushkin | Aviation Week & Space Technology
    New wide bodied aircraft Berkut/CR929 (and IL-96-400M) deserves a dedicated thread for its of high importance for Russian civilian aviation, particularly long-range aviation. Plz collate all the news and articles related to this wide-bodied into a single thread.

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