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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

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    Austin

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    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:29 am

    kvs can you explain the pros and cons of PD-14 Engine Design Approach versus says the GTF design.

    Even the PD-35 engine design has not chosen a GTF approach but relying on PD-14 like approach

    http://www.rusaviainsider.com/uec-gearing-up-for-a-35-ton-engine/


    For one I read PD-14 will have less maintenance but GTF design has more technology advantages on long run ?
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    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:41 pm

    Press Service of Irkut Corporation: MS-21 is a fundamentally new aircraft - INterview

    https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2017/06/07/452913.html

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    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:03 pm

    Interview with TSAGI on MS-21


    Sergei Lyapunov why the MS-21 have wingtips


    Research and experiments in Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) have become one of the most important stages of creating a promising short and medium aircraft MS-21 . On the work associated with the aerodynamics of the MS-21 , said deputy general director of the Institute, Head of the complex aerodynamics and aircraft flight dynamics Sergei Lyapun

    http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/novye_razrabotki/sergey_lyapunov_pochemu_na_ms_21_net_zakontsovok_kryla/
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    Post  kvs on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:57 am

    Austin wrote:kvs can you explain the pros and cons of PD-14 Engine Design Approach versus says the GTF design.

    Even the PD-35 engine design has not chosen a GTF approach but relying on PD-14 like approach

    http://www.rusaviainsider.com/uec-gearing-up-for-a-35-ton-engine/


    For one I read PD-14 will have less maintenance but GTF design has more technology advantages on long run ?

    The PD-14 does not have gearing which limits the bypass ratio to under 8.5 compared to the 12 for the P&W PW1000G.
    But the fuel penalty is only 2.5% according to one estimate

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-pd-14-revives-russian-hopes-for-commercial-428518/

    The gearing issue is obscure. They talk about reliability but gears add complexity and hence reduce reliability
    and engine life. I see a deliberate choice by the makers of the PD-14 to not dabble with gears for such a
    tiny fuel consumption advantage. The PD-14 use hydrodynamics knowhow to improve efficiency and the use
    hollow titanium fan blades, single-crystal turbine blades with cooling is nothing to be scoffed at.

    I really do not see this long term technology advantage of GTF. We will see if ceramic turbine blades are deployed
    some time in the future in addition to better combustion design through simulation. I think there is enough evidence
    to prove that Russian designers know what they are doing.
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:04 am

    kvs wrote:
    Austin wrote:kvs can you explain the pros and cons of PD-14 Engine Design Approach versus says the GTF design.

    Even the PD-35 engine design has not chosen a GTF approach but relying on PD-14 like approach

    http://www.rusaviainsider.com/uec-gearing-up-for-a-35-ton-engine/


    For one I read PD-14 will have less maintenance but GTF design has more technology advantages on long run ?

    The PD-14 does not have gearing which limits the bypass ratio to under 8.5 compared to the 12 for the P&W PW1000G.
    But the fuel penalty is only 2.5% according to one estimate

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-pd-14-revives-russian-hopes-for-commercial-428518/

    The gearing issue is obscure.   They talk about reliability but gears add complexity and hence reduce reliability
    and engine life.   I see a deliberate choice by the makers of the PD-14 to not dabble with gears for such a
    tiny fuel consumption advantage.  The PD-14 use hydrodynamics knowhow to improve efficiency and the use
    hollow titanium fan blades, single-crystal turbine blades with cooling is nothing to be scoffed at.

    I really do not see this long term technology advantage of GTF.   We will see if ceramic turbine blades are deployed
    some time in the future in addition to better combustion design through simulation.    I think there is enough evidence
    to prove that Russian designers know what they are doing.  
    There also seems to be 'interesting' patent issues over GTF with P&W gearing up to sue RR for their forthcoming GTF. (pun intended!). Seems a good plan to stay clear of a potential 'Russians stealing US technology' spat.
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    Post  Austin on Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:43 am

    kvs wrote:
    Austin wrote:kvs can you explain the pros and cons of PD-14 Engine Design Approach versus says the GTF design.

    Even the PD-35 engine design has not chosen a GTF approach but relying on PD-14 like approach

    http://www.rusaviainsider.com/uec-gearing-up-for-a-35-ton-engine/


    For one I read PD-14 will have less maintenance but GTF design has more technology advantages on long run ?

    The PD-14 does not have gearing which limits the bypass ratio to under 8.5 compared to the 12 for the P&W PW1000G.
    But the fuel penalty is only 2.5% according to one estimate

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-pd-14-revives-russian-hopes-for-commercial-428518/

    The gearing issue is obscure.   They talk about reliability but gears add complexity and hence reduce reliability
    and engine life.   I see a deliberate choice by the makers of the PD-14 to not dabble with gears for such a
    tiny fuel consumption advantage.  The PD-14 use hydrodynamics knowhow to improve efficiency and the use
    hollow titanium fan blades, single-crystal turbine blades with cooling is nothing to be scoffed at.

    I really do not see this long term technology advantage of GTF.   We will see if ceramic turbine blades are deployed
    some time in the future in addition to better combustion design through simulation.    I think there is enough evidence
    to prove that Russian designers know what they are doing.  

    According to Pitor who is reliable here PW1400G offers 1 % Fuel advantage over PD-14 engine but PD-14 still wins over PW engine due to lower weight and consequently better effeciency. http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2653756.html

    Unless that 2.5 % is a long term goal built into engine for GTF type ,then I would say 2.5 % is not something to scoff at , Even 1 % fuel effeciency of Engine over say a period of 25 years of operation would years more money to operators.

    I think PD-14 development may not be static , Already there are talks of using Carbon Fibre blades replacing Hollow Titanium ones which might improve fuel effeciency perhaps others are under works.

    The choice of airliners is go for more complex higher maintenance PW engine but with slightly better effeciency or go for less complex but lower maintenance PD-14 engine but slightly lower fuel effeciency.

    I think in the history of engineering Less Complex Less Moving Parts is better than more complex more moving parts irrespective of the small gains.

    PErhaps that is the reason they are keeping the PD-14 approach to engineering design for PD-35 engine and not opting of GTF .....They were toying with GTF idea for PD-18 engine but thats now off the chart.

    I hope and pray they continue flight testing program of MS-21 without serious issues and on time. This bird is more technology advanced than any thing its competitor will offer for the next 10 years
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    Post  Austin on Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:45 am

    BTW the LEAP Engine shares the same engineering approach as PD-14 ?

    https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/engines/leap/
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:37 pm


    About PD-14: that platform was designed with significant input from the military

    And for military it's​ reliability and durability that takes precedence over fuel consumption

    As long as fuel consumption is not grater than competition they will not be pushing it too hard

    Civilian use is just gravy but given the low weight of final product and potential for improvements I'd say that they might get to have their cake and eat it too if they put enough effort into it
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:54 pm


    Loads of MS-21 pics, external and internal:

    http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/900141.html
    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 0_103b12_d034fb72_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 0_103b32_82b9e72f_orig
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:52 am

    Austin wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Austin wrote:kvs can you explain the pros and cons of PD-14 Engine Design Approach versus says the GTF design.

    Even the PD-35 engine design has not chosen a GTF approach but relying on PD-14 like approach

    http://www.rusaviainsider.com/uec-gearing-up-for-a-35-ton-engine/


    For one I read PD-14 will have less maintenance but GTF design has more technology advantages on long run ?

    The PD-14 does not have gearing which limits the bypass ratio to under 8.5 compared to the 12 for the P&W PW1000G.
    But the fuel penalty is only 2.5% according to one estimate

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-pd-14-revives-russian-hopes-for-commercial-428518/

    The gearing issue is obscure.   They talk about reliability but gears add complexity and hence reduce reliability
    and engine life.   I see a deliberate choice by the makers of the PD-14 to not dabble with gears for such a
    tiny fuel consumption advantage.  The PD-14 use hydrodynamics knowhow to improve efficiency and the use
    hollow titanium fan blades, single-crystal turbine blades with cooling is nothing to be scoffed at.

    I really do not see this long term technology advantage of GTF.   We will see if ceramic turbine blades are deployed
    some time in the future in addition to better combustion design through simulation.    I think there is enough evidence
    to prove that Russian designers know what they are doing.  

    According to Pitor who is reliable here PW1400G offers 1 % Fuel advantage over PD-14 engine but PD-14 still wins over PW engine due to lower weight and consequently better effeciency.   http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2653756.html

    Unless that 2.5 % is a long term goal built into engine for GTF type ,then I would say 2.5 % is not something to scoff at , Even 1 % fuel effeciency of Engine over say a period of 25 years of operation would years more money to operators.

    We don't know the validity of this estimate since we have seen elsewhere a 1% figure. I think the
    fundamentally simpler design of the PD-14 will more than offset any marginal fuel use. Engines are bloody expensive and have one last
    longer is the monetary equivalent of hundreds of thousands of liters of gasoline.


    I think PD-14 development may not be static , Already there are talks of using Carbon Fibre blades replacing Hollow Titanium ones which might improve fuel effeciency  perhaps others are under works.

    The choice of airliners is go for more complex higher maintenance PW engine but with slightly better effeciency or go for less complex but lower maintenance PD-14 engine but slightly lower fuel effeciency.

    I think in the history of engineering Less Complex Less Moving Parts is better than more complex more moving parts irrespective of the small gains.

    PErhaps that is the reason they are keeping the PD-14 approach to engineering design for PD-35 engine and not opting of GTF .....They were toying with GTF idea for PD-18 engine but thats now off the chart.

    I hope and pray they continue flight testing program of MS-21 without serious issues and on time.  This bird is more technology advanced than any thing its competitor will offer for the next 10 years

    Regardless of the risks, Russia is back into design and production mode. The toilet years of decline are over and I think for a long time.
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:23 pm

    kvs wrote:
    We don't know the validity of this estimate since we have seen elsewhere a 1% figure.   I think the
    fundamentally simpler design of the PD-14 will more than offset any marginal fuel use.   Engines are bloody expensive and have one last
    longer is the monetary equivalent of hundreds of thousands of liters of gasoline.

    They are claiming PD-14 would be atleast 0.5 % more effecient due to its lower weight.

    They will find real figures for engine operation cost , maintenance , fuel effeciency etc once both engines fly on MS-21 for 1-2 years , they will have good stastics to validate those numbers.


    Regardless of the risks, Russia is back into design and production mode.   The toilet years of decline are over and I think for a long time.  

    Yes , PD-14 is the first engine since SU built the last one says a lot , they have come a long way
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:27 pm

    We begin to build a plane with the Chinese

    http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/899369.html


    KLA" and COMAC opened yesterday in Shanghai joint venture office CRAIC (China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corporation).

    CRAIC will perform the program operator function of the new generation of wide-body long-haul aircraft, which together create the Russian and Chinese aircraft manufacturers.

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 0_10374a_139960a2_orig


    Joint Venture at the ceremony opened by the President "KLA" Yuri Slusar, vice president of civil aviation "KLA", the president of "GSS" Vladislav Masalov, chairman SOMAS Jin Tszanlun and president of COMAC He Dongfeng.

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 0_10374b_6dae667d_orig


    CRAIC as a program operator, in whose activities include the establishment of the production, design, production , marketing, sales, after-sales service, consulting, project management and other related activities to create a wide-haul aircraft.

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 0_10374c_f98b44d1_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 0_103749_9d9a7d36_orig

    to date, the parties developed the concept of the family of widebody long-haul aircraft, the characteristic pre-determined iki aircraft. In the base liner will be designed for 280 seats with a range of 12,000 kilometers.

    The nearest plans - the transition of the program to the schematic design phase and RFP suppliers of systems and equipment. Final assembly of the aircraft will be manufactured in Shanghai.
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:48 pm

    Russo-Chinese joint venture set up to design new widebody


    Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) have reached another milestone in the joint program to develop a new-generation long-haul widebody aircraft, codenamed C929. On May 22, the partners opened the Shanghai office of their joint venture (JV) that will manage the project.

    The JV, known as China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corporation (CRAIC), received its operating license on the same day.

    “The establishment of the JV is an important practical step signifying the partners’ commitment to long-term cooperation and to ensuring the program’s success,” UAC President Yury Slyusar said at the opening ceremony. “Together with our colleagues at СОМАС we created the organization that will be in charge of the production, sales, and after-sales support of the new airliner; it will also be engaged inmarketing and business planning activities.” The JV agreement was sealed during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s official visit to Beijing in June 2016.

    The JV and the entire project are 50/50 owned by the partners. Vladislav Masalov, UAV vice-president for civil aviation and president of Sukhoi Civil Aircraft Company, has been appointed as chairman of the new enterprise’s board.

    SCAC will be used as the basis for creating CRAIC’s civil aviation arm. COMAC CEO Guo Bozhi has been appointed as CRAIC general director. He also leads the widebody long-haul program at COMAC. The board of directos will comprise eight members, four from each side; these were appointed at the board’s first meeting on May 22.

    Masalov told Russian Aviation Insider that the establishment of the JV has paved the way for launching design work on the future aircraft, and that a joint engineering center will be set up in Moscow for the purpose. UAC will be responsible for designing the wing, high-lift devices, engine pylons, and main landing gear struts. COMAC will develop the fuselage, empennage, nose landing gear strut, nose cone, and wing-fuselage fairings.

    “Our agreement calls for UAC to act as the project integrator,” Masalov said. Part of the design work may be outsourced to other Chinese and Russian companies.

    Masalov added that the preliminary design review is expected to take place in late 2018. The baseline version for 280 passengers and with a range of 12,000 km will be developed first. The partners are also planning to developed a 230-passenger shortened version and a 320-seat stretch.


    According to Slyusar, the partners have already been in contact with Chinese carriers and lessors potentially interested in the C929, for which China is viewed as the primary market. Potential customers are primarily interested in the future airliner’s cost-efficiency. The developers are planning to achieve this with using composites across the airframe, including in the wing, and also by introducing electric systems and new aerodynamic solutions.

    The partners are to have identified their project suppliers by year-end. Requests for information have already been sent to a number of companies. Potential Chinese operators would like to have a choice of two powerplants. The developers are mulling GE Aviation and Rolls-Royce as their engine suppliers. Masalov said Russia’s Aviadvigatel PD-35 new-generation turbofan might also be offered as an option.

    The final assembly line will be set up in Shanghai. According to Masalov, there is as yet no final agreement on who of the partners will supply which components.

    Masalov said the partners assess the global widebody market at 7,000 airframes between 2023 and 2045, with the highest demand in the Asia-Pacific Region, China, Russia, and other CIS countries.

    C929 deliveries are expected to begin in 2027.
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    Post  Firebird on Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:12 am

    How will Russia's own widebody planes be built?
    With the Chinese jt venture?
    Or will they be build wholly in Russia?

    In other words, is it a bit like the Russian-Indian collaboration on 5g fighters and Brahmos? In that situation, Russia does a joint venture for sale to the partner. BUT Russia does a wholly Russian version for its own market.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:25 am

    Firebird wrote:How will Russia's own widebody planes be built?
    With the Chinese jt venture?
    Or will they be build wholly in Russia?

    In other words, is it a bit like the Russian-Indian collaboration on 5g fighters and Brahmos? In that situation, Russia does a joint venture for sale to the partner. BUT Russia does a wholly Russian version for its own market.

    Russia handles R&D, design and testing and they also build composite wings, engine pylons, and main landing gear struts. That stuff is to be shipped to China for assembly with rest of the components that will be built in China.

    After that aircraft is delivered to customer.
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    Post  Austin on Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:57 pm

    Russia's New MC-21 Airliner Has 175 Pre-paid Orders Worth $15 Billion

    http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19425/Russia_s_New_MC_21_Airliner_Has_175_Pre_paid_Orders_Worth__15_Billion#.WUD59NwlGHs
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:40 pm


    Second flight of MS-21

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/94785/

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 CHAudXNlcmFwaS5jb20vYzgzNzEyOS92ODM3MTI5NjA5LzRiNWNlLzBfUFF1ck5OeGZzLmpwZw==

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    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:09 am

    Take Off Magazine June Issue and detailed write up on MS-21 and SSJ program and updates on PD-14 and others

    en.take-off.ru/pdf_to/to41.pdf
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:16 pm


    Third flight of MS-21, we are officially entering routine/snooze zone

    http://tass.ru/ekonomika/4338841
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    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:01 am

    Cuban VNIIRA-OVD surveillance makes debut
    Posted on June 6,

    http://www.airtrafficmanagement.net/2017/06/cuban-vniiraovd-surveillance-makes-debut/
    1
    A new Russian surveillance system has gone into operation in the Cuban capital’s Jose Marti International Airport, its manufacturer VNIIRA-OVD has told news agency TASS.

    “VNIIRA-OVD, jointly with St Petersburg-based Digital Radio Systems (CRTS) research and production enterprise, implemented a project to deliver and prepare Russian equipment for operating in Cuba,” said VNIIRA-OVD chief Tatyana Makarova.

    VNIIRA-OVD won a tender among leading air navigation equipment companies to supply the air traffic control system for the Havana airport late last year.

    “Cuban air navigation service provider ECASA chose Russian-made equipment. A contract was signed in late October 2016, and two months later all equipment arrived in Cuba,” said Makarova said. In 2014, similar Russian-made systems went on stream in the Cuban resort city of Varadero.

    “Last year, many US air carriers resumed flights to Cuba, that’s why traffic at the Havana airport intensified significantly. Under these circumstances, a logical decision was made to modernise the air traffic surveillance system. The Russian-made equipment will make air traffic at the Havana airport more efficient and safe,” said CRTS chief designer Yuri Kapoyko.

    In a 2016 contract award statement, the supplier said the crucial advantage of the multilateration-based A-SMGCS system is its ability to support the controller in poor visibility conditions.


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    Post  Austin on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:01 am

    Pictures : Russian ATC Equipment in Cuba

    http://www.vniira-ovd.com/download/about_company/vniira_ovd_eng.pdf

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    Post  Austin on Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:54 am

    Austin wrote:Take Off Magazine June Issue and detailed write up on MS-21 and SSJ program and updates on PD-14 and others

    en.take-off.ru/pdf_to/to41.pdf

    Check the write up on Superjet it has updates on Superjet SV program , They would be adding 5 m extra length for SV program and it has got new high aspect wing with Winglets giving 10 % extra effeciency , MTOW is 55 T
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    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:17 pm

    MS-21-200 is suppose to carry forward where SSJ-SV capability is suppose to end at 120 Seat configuration

    MS-21-200 starts with 130 seat till 165 seat capacity

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 22 1495600352
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    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:18 pm

    UEC 12 produced prototype engines for aircraft MS-21

    https://ria.ru/economy/20170619/1496796986.html

    MS-21 will be able to fly on the Russian PD-14 instead of the American PW-1400G


    https://ria.ru/economy/20170619/1496797583.html
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:56 pm

    Funny ria says it now. Since we all knew PD-14 was designed for MS-21

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