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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

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    RedJasmin

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:02 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    RedJasmin wrote:Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

    In a sense they had a good ride between the 50s and late 80s and like many other western aero companies in the field that ceased to exist in the 90s. We all fly Boeing or Airbus and that is it, add some Regionals and props. USSR allies were only buying from them (An-, Il- and Tu-) with no competition and I am sure the requested pricing did involve a lot of "finger twisting" of the client! But you are right, in terms of 00s and 10s capitalism UAC is very much behind and could either try and fit in niche markets (see SSJ, Ru gov or local companies) or risk everything on a commercial wide-body and loose it all.

    There'a good example of a western company CityJet, basing a lot of its operation in London small business airport (City) and they replace the venerable BAe 146 (Avro RJ) with SSJ (15 of them iirc). This plane will fly mostly a business crowd in nearby European airports. It's a good sign how niche markets can work out for UAC.

    The SSJ is a good drop in replacement for the BAe 146, and is more flexible in almost every way. After the A318, it's the plane with the longest range capable of taking out at LCY with a decent number of passengers, but at much lower price and the range sacrifice is minimal. CityJet have made a sensible buy, but it's a shame more western airlines haven't done likewise. CityFlyer (British Airways operation out of LCY) replaced their entire fleet of 146s a few years back, and went with Embraer E-jets, which they now operate exclusively - not the knock the Embraer ERJs and E-jets - having flown on them a lot, I have great respect for their reliability and comfort. The Brazilians know how to make good planes, no doubt about it.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:22 am

    wilhelm wrote:
    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    Boeings "lobbying" to undermine a potential foreign competitor is clearly a corrupt practise, but since by definition the "free" Western world is considered "free" of corruption, this sort of unethical behaviour is ignored by the Masters of the Universe, and even encouraged by the usual Russophobes embedded in our Deep State elite.

    wilhelm

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:09 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    wilhelm wrote:
    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    Boeings "lobbying" to undermine a potential foreign competitor is clearly a corrupt practise, but since by definition the "free" Western world is considered "free" of corruption, this sort of unethical behaviour is ignored by the Masters of the Universe, and even encouraged by the usual Russophobes embedded in our Deep State elite.

    Indeed, which is why I called it like this in another sentence of that post:
    wilhelm wrote: It's basically extortion and blackmail.

    Boeing has a long, well known history of this type of behaviour.

    wilhelm

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:12 am

    I see in an earlier post, someone mooted the possibility of a twin engined Il-96 with one of the new more powerful engines likely to be developed.
    Is that possible with the current landing gear and wing? I get the impression such an engine, with larger fan, would require a redesign of either the wing (for a different engine placement) or a longer landing gear (for ground clearance).

    EDIT: Actually, looking at pictures, they could go the Boeing 777 route with a shorter engine pylon, so it can probably be quite easily achieved with the current landing gear and wing.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:42 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:58 pm

    It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:31 pm

    sepheronx wrote:It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

    Actually reason also might be small fleet, imagine having to obtain spares and maintenance from IL, Boeing, Airbus and whoever else, its expected that IL would get cut down due to fact they had small number of them and spares were probably more expencive due to fact they often were produced per piece, unlike for 737 for an example whos parts are produced in thousands, even tho maybe operating them was cheaper.

    Well it still requires fairly big changes to the design due to probably? new engines etc and avionics etc. Hopefully i get to fly it one day.

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:27 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

    It's both. If you have a wide-body where the only tech-ops/repair center in a few spots within Russia, then it makes it uneconomical for a company that is based in South America or Africa and want to fly to Australia, Dubai or the US. Low numbers operating makes spare parts more expensive, as the world-wide stock is literally non-existant.

    What Russia should do with these wide-bodies is exert diplomatic influence to the furthest extent to ex-USSR countries first (Belarus, Kazakhstan) and then open itself to Africa and Central and S. America (Peru, Mexico, etc.). Airbus A340 is a great example of a product that when acquired by certain airliners (not all), no thought process on its performance was given. It was pure politics, same for A380 if you discount Emirates/Etihad and Qatar.

    If UAC can't secure a good 100+ orders before launching the program, then they should not proceed.
    Also they should make sure either GE or RR is on-board. Otherwise few serious clients will care. In the long-haul game you ought to use one of the big boys for various reasons, reliability, support all over the world, cost.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:14 am

    "Russian airframer Irkut has taken delivery of the first composite wing panel for the MC-21 single-aisle twinjet. The cover panel for the starboard wing has been developed by AeroKompozit using vacuum infusion and carbon lay-up processes. AeroKompozit is completing work on similar panels for the port wing, says Irkut.

    Irkut says it is currently installing various systems in the assembled fuselage of the initial MC-21 airframe. First flight of the MC-21 is due to take place before the end of this year. The jet will be powered by Pratt & Whitney PW1400G or Aviadvigatel PD-14 engines."




    Sources: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/irkut-receives-first-mc-21-composite-wing-cover-420951/ and UAC Russia
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:17 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

    It's both. If you have a wide-body where the only tech-ops/repair center in a few spots within Russia, then it makes it uneconomical for a company that is based in South America or Africa and want to fly to Australia, Dubai or the US. Low numbers operating makes spare parts more expensive, as the world-wide stock is literally non-existant.

    What Russia should do with these wide-bodies is exert diplomatic influence to the furthest extent to ex-USSR countries first (Belarus, Kazakhstan) and then open itself to Africa and Central and S. America (Peru, Mexico, etc.). Airbus A340 is a great example of a product that when acquired by certain airliners (not all), no thought process on its performance was given. It was pure politics, same for A380 if you discount Emirates/Etihad and Qatar.

    If UAC can't secure a good 100+ orders before launching the program, then they should not proceed.
    Also they should make sure either GE or RR is on-board. Otherwise few serious clients will care. In the long-haul game you ought to use one of the big boys for various reasons, reliability, support all over the world, cost.

    To economically operate wide body liner they would probably need to build over 200 as it shares very little parts with other platforms. Its easier to operate 100 Airbus320Neo or whatever version as there are 400-500 of basically same design around the world flying. But if they make multiple versions as there are rumons, VIP transport for Kremlin, then tanker for the Air Force, liners for Aeroflot...maybe commercial transports? Then numbers could rise quite alot.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:26 am

    Abit of Aviastar shots:































































    Source: http://gelio.livejournal.com/213883.html
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:57 pm


    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    RedJasmin

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:03 pm

    wilhelm wrote:I see in an earlier post, someone mooted the possibility of a twin engined Il-96 with one of the new more powerful engines likely to be developed.
    Is that possible with the current landing gear and wing? I get the impression such an engine, with larger fan, would require a redesign of either the wing (for a different engine placement) or a longer landing gear (for ground clearance).

    EDIT: Actually, looking at pictures, they could go the Boeing 777 route with a shorter engine pylon, so it can probably be quite easily achieved with the current landing gear and wing.

    I mooted it, though I wasn't necessarily thinking mostly of using the existing 96 in it's entirety, but only as a basic starting point, though obviously the less re-tooling needed the better! Looking at the 777 and 96 side by side, I think you are dright that you could get away with keeping the existing landing gear if the engine pylons were made more like the B777, or even the B737 Classic.

    The original 737-100/200 ("Original" class) used low-bypass engines with very small fans, and they already sat quite low to the ground, and were still changed in favour of high-bypass for the "Classic" class 737-300/400/500, whilst retaining the same landing gear, fuselage cross-section and the much of the wing, just by pushing the engines forward as well as upward, so the top of the engine sits almost entirely in front of the wing, and with the top of it's housing being almost with the upper wing surface. If either the 777 or 737 solution is achievable for a 96-twin then it would save a lot of re-tooling and re-design of the undercarriage, whilst at the same time giving options for aerodynamic improvements.

    RedJasmin

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:24 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    Agreed, great photography, and nice to see the factory floor so full Very Happy

    What surprised me, was that the IL-76 is still being built with the glass nose. I would have thought that with modern avionics it would have been deemed redundant and deleted to save weight / simplify construction etc.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:10 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    I shall Smile
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:18 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

    Actually reason also might be small fleet, imagine having to obtain spares and maintenance from IL, Boeing, Airbus and whoever else, its expected that IL would get cut down due to fact they had small number of them and spares were probably more expencive due to fact they often were produced per piece, unlike for 737 for an example whos parts are produced in thousands, even tho maybe operating them was cheaper.

    Well it still requires fairly big changes to the design due to probably? new engines etc and avionics etc. Hopefully i get to fly it one day.

    Nyet

    I specificially saud maintenance was cheaper too.
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    x_54_u43

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  x_54_u43 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:49 am

    RedJasmin wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    Agreed, great photography, and nice to see the factory floor so full Very Happy

    What surprised me, was that the IL-76 is still being built with the glass nose. I  would have thought that with modern avionics it would have been deemed redundant and deleted to save weight / simplify construction etc.

    You do realize that's for helping the crew land on unprepared/ghetto-tier airfields? No replacing that with avionics.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:45 pm

    Hardly 'get rid' more like 'sell off'.

    Russia is about to get rid off its flag carrier. According to the Financial Times Russian president Vladimir Putin is preparing Aeroflot to be sold off, together with 15 other companies, in attempt to tackle the financial crisis in the largest country of the world.

    Once also the largest airline of the globe when the Soviet Union still existed, Aeroflot has been diminished to a fleet of hundreds of Soviet made aircraft to 162 mainly Western made but competitive machines. The company joined the SkyTeam alliance of airlines in April 2006, but remained a sort of state company with 51 percent of Aeroflot owned by the Russian Federation.


    http://airheadsfly.com/2016/02/02/mother-russia-says-goodbye-to-aeroflot/
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:18 pm

    Thats a retarded article.  If they had any intelligence, they would know its supposed to be sold off to a domestic buyer, not foreign.  Amd it isnt guaranteed yet either.
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    higurashihougi

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:24 am

    Keep up the good work, Sukhoi.

    https://www.rt.com/business/331230-egypt-order-russian-sukhoi/

    Moscow and Cairo are discussing the possibility EgyptAir buying Russian-made Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ-100) aircraft, according to Russia’s Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov.

    "We are now discussing the possibility of delivering up to 40 airplanes: 20 plus an option for other 20. This is a big ambitious project," Manturov told Rossiya 24 TV channel on Wednesday.

    RedJasmin

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:32 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    RedJasmin wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    Agreed, great photography, and nice to see the factory floor so full Very Happy

    What surprised me, was that the IL-76 is still being built with the glass nose. I  would have thought that with modern avionics it would have been deemed redundant and deleted to save weight / simplify construction etc.

    You do realize that's for helping the crew land on unprepared/ghetto-tier airfields? No replacing that with avionics.

    How is it used in those circumstances? I'd be interested in the setup, as a lot of aircraft (western and former Soviet) have unprepared field abilities, but don't use a glass nose, i.e. A400M, C-130J, AN-24 and AN-72. I believe the IL-114 also has unprepared field ability, even as a primarily civilian design and built with a focus on computerised navigation.

    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:36 pm

    Well, both the C-17 and the C-130 have lower windows near the cockpit floor. The A400M, however, has normal windows like a passenger plane.
    Interesting thing is that, before Maidan and Russia leaving the project, the An-70 received an optronic ball in the nose, probably to give pilots unobstructed downward view.
    http://russianplanes.net/id131647
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:06 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:Well, both the C-17 and the C-130 have lower windows near the cockpit floor. The A400M, however, has normal windows like a passenger plane.
    Interesting thing is that, before Maidan and Russia leaving the project, the An-70 received an optronic ball in the nose, probably to give pilots unobstructed downward view.
    http://russianplanes.net/id131647

    I belive Americans call those "lower windows" scanner windows, mostly used to keep eye on ground crew, and to aid landing and take off on unprepared airstrips but they are most of the time covered from what i noticed. Russians on other hand kept whole "navigator" glass nose installation which helps in bad weather to navigate and detect airdrop places, airfields, observe other transporters during massive airdrops, even to navigate flight in case of malfunction by using maps and orientation marks like back in time, helps with landing on bad airfields too.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:12 am

    The windows are there for the navigators position... when they remove the position AFAIK they generally remove the windows...

    Makes sense to let the navigator see... especially when evaluating landing strips etc.


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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:55 pm





    So apparently for now 3 PD14 engines were assembled for testing (i assume at least 1 is for bench testing) and plan is to build another 4 during 2016.

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