Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Guest on Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:53 am

    Austin wrote:"Ilyushin" develop a passenger version of the Il-96-400T
    January 13, 2016 Maxim Pyadushkin

    http://www.ato.ru/content/ilyushin-razrabotaet-passazhirskuyu-versiyu-il-96-400t


    The company "Ilyushin" plans to develop a new wide-body passenger modification of the Il-96. "We go out with a proposal to launch the initiative on the basis of the Il-96-400 passenger aircraft," - said the January 13 General Director Sergey Velmozhkin.

    The original version of Il-96-400T designed as a cargo version of the basic passenger version of IL-96-300 is distinguished by its extended 9.6 m fuselage, an increase of 20 tonnes maximum take-off weight (270 tons) and more powerful engines PS-90A1.

    It was built four such aircraft, three of which were operated until 2013 the airline "Polet" has ceased its activities. Two of the existing board of this type is converted to an air control point Il-96-400VPU first ready. Two more aircraft will be converted into tankers Il-96-400TZ.

    According Velmozhkina, the contract for this work with the Ministry of Defence has already been signed. "But the question is still at the stage of presentation of evidence that IL-96 can be used as a tanker," - he explained.

    For the passenger version, some components of the IL-96-400 will be upgraded, but the aircraft to maintain the current PS-90 engines. At the same time discusses the use of this modification of the new PD-14 engine, which is designed for single-aisle aircraft MS-21.

    Representatives of "Ilyushin" say the fuel efficiency that four-engine plane will be at the western analogues. Make of IL-96 twin-engine car will be if Russia will be developed by the engine thrust of 32-35 tons, the company stressed.

    As previously stated by representatives of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), in the development plans of the family PD-14 is the creation of a traction engine, but the timing of its development has not yet been determined.

    Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.
    avatar
    RedJasmin

    Posts : 32
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2015-06-10

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:19 am

    I sincerely hope this project comes to fruition, as the IL-96 really deserves it's day in the sun. It is a decent design cursed by the most unfortunate timing imaginable (launching during the midst of the Soviet collapse).

    Using the stretched version would greatly improve it's operating economics, and hopefully the "upgrading" for the civil passenger variant will include cockpit and cabin modifications to bring it in-line in with the MS-21 in terms of control familiarity and cabin ambiance, to facilitate crew training and passenger experience.

    One thing that does concern me is switching back to PS-90A engines. Given this project is going to take a while to come through, I think it would be wise to wait until the PD-18R engine is ready and launch with that from the outset, rather than "taint" the perception of the new model with an old engine - otherwise we are right back with the Ilyushin IL-86 again.

    I really, really hope this porject comes through though. I'd love to see a large new fleet of IL-96s with Aeroflot, Rossiya, Cubana and hopefully other new customers - best of luck to UAC. Let's make this one happen cheers
    KiloGolf
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2509
    Points : 2501
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:47 am

    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?
    avatar
    RedJasmin

    Posts : 32
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2015-06-10

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:10 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Not as much as you'd think. The per seat fuel-burn difference between A330 and A340 is marginal at best. The A340 was doing fine until the late 00s sudden oil price spike drove airlines into panic mode (interesting article on it here. Prior to that even low-cost airlines like Air Asia X were deploying them. The real nail in the coffin for the A340 wasn't the B777 or A330, but simply that a new generation sucessor (A380 and A350) was in the making.

    That said, I doubt the IL-96 will be a global player. The low purchase price and new engines will mean it makes some financial sense if it comes with the PD-18D, which combined with the threat of sanctions from western manufacturers, mean it might do OK in Russia and other countries at risk of similar sanctions (fingers crossed!). And I do think it's important that it is out there in the market to provide that alternative, but at the end of the day, as I said about the Sukhoi, the same issues are at play - fears about after-sales support services, parts availability and long term contracts with rival manufacturers which will make major success in western markets difficult.

    Success is relative though, if Ilyushin manage to shift 100 new IL-96s to civil aviation, then it's pretty poor by Airbus or Boeing sales figures, but it'd be a good showing for the IL-96, and could serve as good experience in serial production of a modern widebody for future projects, ifAviadvigatel get round to making a high-bypass turbofan in the 270kn range.

    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7091
    Points : 7359
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 30
    Location : Canada

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:27 pm

    It was mentioned long before either you two joined the forums but essentially boeing lobbied aeroflot to dump the Il-96 in favor of the 747 and such.  There is documentation somewhere on this forums about how the take off costs of il-96 was actually less than that of the airbus jet that replaced it.  Even maintenance cost too.  But of course, they didnt have a powerful lobby.
    avatar
    wilhelm

    Posts : 242
    Points : 246
    Join date : 2014-12-09

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:53 pm

    sepheronx wrote:It was mentioned long before either you two joined the forums but essentially boeing lobbied aeroflot to dump the Il-96 in favor of the 747 and such.  There is documentation somewhere on this forums about how the take off costs of il-96 was actually less than that of the airbus jet that replaced it.  Even maintenance cost too.  But of course, they didnt have a powerful lobby.

    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    That's all you need to know about doing business with those sorts of "organisations".
    The sooner an upgraded version of the IL-96, with modern engines and avionics that have nothing to do with such "organisations" comes into being, the better. You can't have strategic industries and products that are held hostage to such shenanigans. It's basically extortion and blackmail.

    It's a salutary lesson on why you can't rely on such "partners", and you should always have your own products or analogues to replace any international "cooperation" to prevent such games from happening again. Personally, I would place a special tax on products from such companies, which could be passed on to local competitors/producers. It's baffling that some actually thought Boeing would allow a level, fair playing field...they have a long history of such tactics in other regions too.
    avatar
    RedJasmin

    Posts : 32
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2015-06-10

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:17 pm

    Yep, that's basically what i meant by long-term agreements - a grey mix of legitimate contracts (steep discounts on purchases in return for repeat custom and the support contract) and the shady - lobbying, arm twisting, using friendly government and financial institutions to push you to the front. Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

    Will definitely be following this with interest.
    KiloGolf
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2509
    Points : 2501
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:02 am

    RedJasmin wrote:Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

    In a sense they had a good ride between the 50s and late 80s and like many other western aero companies in the field that ceased to exist in the 90s. We all fly Boeing or Airbus and that is it, add some Regionals and props. USSR allies were only buying from them (An-, Il- and Tu-) with no competition and I am sure the requested pricing did involve a lot of "finger twisting" of the client! But you are right, in terms of 00s and 10s capitalism UAC is very much behind and could either try and fit in niche markets (see SSJ, Ru gov or local companies) or risk everything on a commercial wide-body and loose it all.

    There'a good example of a western company CityJet, basing a lot of its operation in London small business airport (City) and they replace the venerable BAe 146 (Avro RJ) with SSJ (15 of them iirc). This plane will fly mostly a business crowd in nearby European airports. It's a good sign how niche markets can work out for UAC.
    avatar
    RedJasmin

    Posts : 32
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2015-06-10

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:02 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    RedJasmin wrote:Boeing have been doing it for decades and are much more experienced at it than UAC, who prior to the Soviet collapse never had to compete in quite the same way.

    In a sense they had a good ride between the 50s and late 80s and like many other western aero companies in the field that ceased to exist in the 90s. We all fly Boeing or Airbus and that is it, add some Regionals and props. USSR allies were only buying from them (An-, Il- and Tu-) with no competition and I am sure the requested pricing did involve a lot of "finger twisting" of the client! But you are right, in terms of 00s and 10s capitalism UAC is very much behind and could either try and fit in niche markets (see SSJ, Ru gov or local companies) or risk everything on a commercial wide-body and loose it all.

    There'a good example of a western company CityJet, basing a lot of its operation in London small business airport (City) and they replace the venerable BAe 146 (Avro RJ) with SSJ (15 of them iirc). This plane will fly mostly a business crowd in nearby European airports. It's a good sign how niche markets can work out for UAC.

    The SSJ is a good drop in replacement for the BAe 146, and is more flexible in almost every way. After the A318, it's the plane with the longest range capable of taking out at LCY with a decent number of passengers, but at much lower price and the range sacrifice is minimal. CityJet have made a sensible buy, but it's a shame more western airlines haven't done likewise. CityFlyer (British Airways operation out of LCY) replaced their entire fleet of 146s a few years back, and went with Embraer E-jets, which they now operate exclusively - not the knock the Embraer ERJs and E-jets - having flown on them a lot, I have great respect for their reliability and comfort. The Brazilians know how to make good planes, no doubt about it.
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1607
    Points : 1609
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:22 am

    wilhelm wrote:
    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    Boeings "lobbying" to undermine a potential foreign competitor is clearly a corrupt practise, but since by definition the "free" Western world is considered "free" of corruption, this sort of unethical behaviour is ignored by the Masters of the Universe, and even encouraged by the usual Russophobes embedded in our Deep State elite.
    avatar
    wilhelm

    Posts : 242
    Points : 246
    Join date : 2014-12-09

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:09 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    wilhelm wrote:
    Boeing lobbied the US Import Export Bank to end financing on the upgraded M/T version of the Il-96. This was "resolved" when Aeroflot ordered Boeings worth half a billion dollars with a tax exemption from the Russian government. When a further order of Boeings was not granted a tax exemption, quite rightfully as they weren't part of the original agreement, Boeing once again lobbied and placed pressure on the finances, and the upgraded Il-96 financing was cancelled.

    Boeings "lobbying" to undermine a potential foreign competitor is clearly a corrupt practise, but since by definition the "free" Western world is considered "free" of corruption, this sort of unethical behaviour is ignored by the Masters of the Universe, and even encouraged by the usual Russophobes embedded in our Deep State elite.

    Indeed, which is why I called it like this in another sentence of that post:
    wilhelm wrote: It's basically extortion and blackmail.

    Boeing has a long, well known history of this type of behaviour.
    avatar
    wilhelm

    Posts : 242
    Points : 246
    Join date : 2014-12-09

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:12 pm

    I see in an earlier post, someone mooted the possibility of a twin engined Il-96 with one of the new more powerful engines likely to be developed.
    Is that possible with the current landing gear and wing? I get the impression such an engine, with larger fan, would require a redesign of either the wing (for a different engine placement) or a longer landing gear (for ground clearance).

    EDIT: Actually, looking at pictures, they could go the Boeing 777 route with a shorter engine pylon, so it can probably be quite easily achieved with the current landing gear and wing.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Guest on Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:42 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7091
    Points : 7359
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 30
    Location : Canada

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:58 pm

    It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Guest on Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:31 pm

    sepheronx wrote:It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

    Actually reason also might be small fleet, imagine having to obtain spares and maintenance from IL, Boeing, Airbus and whoever else, its expected that IL would get cut down due to fact they had small number of them and spares were probably more expencive due to fact they often were produced per piece, unlike for 737 for an example whos parts are produced in thousands, even tho maybe operating them was cheaper.

    Well it still requires fairly big changes to the design due to probably? new engines etc and avionics etc. Hopefully i get to fly it one day.

    KiloGolf
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2509
    Points : 2501
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:27 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

    It's both. If you have a wide-body where the only tech-ops/repair center in a few spots within Russia, then it makes it uneconomical for a company that is based in South America or Africa and want to fly to Australia, Dubai or the US. Low numbers operating makes spare parts more expensive, as the world-wide stock is literally non-existant.

    What Russia should do with these wide-bodies is exert diplomatic influence to the furthest extent to ex-USSR countries first (Belarus, Kazakhstan) and then open itself to Africa and Central and S. America (Peru, Mexico, etc.). Airbus A340 is a great example of a product that when acquired by certain airliners (not all), no thought process on its performance was given. It was pure politics, same for A380 if you discount Emirates/Etihad and Qatar.

    If UAC can't secure a good 100+ orders before launching the program, then they should not proceed.
    Also they should make sure either GE or RR is on-board. Otherwise few serious clients will care. In the long-haul game you ought to use one of the big boys for various reasons, reliability, support all over the world, cost.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Guest on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:14 pm

    "Russian airframer Irkut has taken delivery of the first composite wing panel for the MC-21 single-aisle twinjet. The cover panel for the starboard wing has been developed by AeroKompozit using vacuum infusion and carbon lay-up processes. AeroKompozit is completing work on similar panels for the port wing, says Irkut.

    Irkut says it is currently installing various systems in the assembled fuselage of the initial MC-21 airframe. First flight of the MC-21 is due to take place before the end of this year. The jet will be powered by Pratt & Whitney PW1400G or Aviadvigatel PD-14 engines."


    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 CZKlzdKUsAAY0jq

    Sources: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/irkut-receives-first-mc-21-composite-wing-cover-420951/ and UAC Russia
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Guest on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:17 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Sounds legit since Russia does not have wide body liners at all on its own except those already aging original IL96s variants.

    Aeroflot dumped them a good while ago. Should I guess it's for the same reasons most A340-200/300 users got rid of them as well?
    Uneconomical vs. 777 and A330s ?

    Yes they were retired, i saw tho one being operated year ago or so by one of those smaller Russian airlines. Not sure what was the main reason, being uneconomical or issues with maintenance coz fleet was fairly small. Anyways Russian wide body liner should be developed.

    It's both. If you have a wide-body where the only tech-ops/repair center in a few spots within Russia, then it makes it uneconomical for a company that is based in South America or Africa and want to fly to Australia, Dubai or the US. Low numbers operating makes spare parts more expensive, as the world-wide stock is literally non-existant.

    What Russia should do with these wide-bodies is exert diplomatic influence to the furthest extent to ex-USSR countries first (Belarus, Kazakhstan) and then open itself to Africa and Central and S. America (Peru, Mexico, etc.). Airbus A340 is a great example of a product that when acquired by certain airliners (not all), no thought process on its performance was given. It was pure politics, same for A380 if you discount Emirates/Etihad and Qatar.

    If UAC can't secure a good 100+ orders before launching the program, then they should not proceed.
    Also they should make sure either GE or RR is on-board. Otherwise few serious clients will care. In the long-haul game you ought to use one of the big boys for various reasons, reliability, support all over the world, cost.

    To economically operate wide body liner they would probably need to build over 200 as it shares very little parts with other platforms. Its easier to operate 100 Airbus320Neo or whatever version as there are 400-500 of basically same design around the world flying. But if they make multiple versions as there are rumons, VIP transport for Kremlin, then tanker for the Air Force, liners for Aeroflot...maybe commercial transports? Then numbers could rise quite alot.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Guest on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:26 pm

    Abit of Aviastar shots:

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba19_91839346_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba06_18376c87_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba08_c0bec07d_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba0d_1f3ba79c_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba03_62088449_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba04_7c322e7f_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba0f_c86a688c_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9e5_f38c5493_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9e8_874ba46c_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba07_4853d2cf_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba00_607ca7f8_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba18_1137af28_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9e7_dd41cbbc_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba20_86225520_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba09_eeb9ec2a_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9ed_de732960_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba0e_e30da5ec_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba1d_4ed22226_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba21_4b4bbd04_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba1b_342a30c7_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9eb_aa4d6ad0_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba0c_3a5dee8e_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9fb_8e4baed3_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9f7_a96e289d_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9f2_bc1714a3_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9e4_80102de5_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9ef_af6fc723_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8b9fd_980fc02_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba27_920644aa_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba10_83f56b6_orig

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 0_8ba26_c64d2fc6_orig

    Source: http://gelio.livejournal.com/213883.html
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 8322
    Points : 8406
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:57 am


    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/

    avatar
    RedJasmin

    Posts : 32
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2015-06-10

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:03 am

    wilhelm wrote:I see in an earlier post, someone mooted the possibility of a twin engined Il-96 with one of the new more powerful engines likely to be developed.
    Is that possible with the current landing gear and wing? I get the impression such an engine, with larger fan, would require a redesign of either the wing (for a different engine placement) or a longer landing gear (for ground clearance).

    EDIT: Actually, looking at pictures, they could go the Boeing 777 route with a shorter engine pylon, so it can probably be quite easily achieved with the current landing gear and wing.

    I mooted it, though I wasn't necessarily thinking mostly of using the existing 96 in it's entirety, but only as a basic starting point, though obviously the less re-tooling needed the better! Looking at the 777 and 96 side by side, I think you are dright that you could get away with keeping the existing landing gear if the engine pylons were made more like the B777, or even the B737 Classic.

    The original 737-100/200 ("Original" class) used low-bypass engines with very small fans, and they already sat quite low to the ground, and were still changed in favour of high-bypass for the "Classic" class 737-300/400/500, whilst retaining the same landing gear, fuselage cross-section and the much of the wing, just by pushing the engines forward as well as upward, so the top of the engine sits almost entirely in front of the wing, and with the top of it's housing being almost with the upper wing surface. If either the 777 or 737 solution is achievable for a 96-twin then it would save a lot of re-tooling and re-design of the undercarriage, whilst at the same time giving options for aerodynamic improvements.
    avatar
    RedJasmin

    Posts : 32
    Points : 34
    Join date : 2015-06-10

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  RedJasmin on Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:24 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    Agreed, great photography, and nice to see the factory floor so full Very Happy

    What surprised me, was that the IL-76 is still being built with the glass nose. I would have thought that with modern avionics it would have been deemed redundant and deleted to save weight / simplify construction etc.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Guest on Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    I shall Smile
    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7091
    Points : 7359
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 30
    Location : Canada

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:18 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:It was cheaper to operate.  Ilyushin just didnt have a suitcase full if money to bribe the right people.

    Now? They dont need it, as the west did all the hard work for Ilyushin.  Now they just need to modernize the avionics and engines, use the extended version of the plane, and they will have a wide body aircraft that will work fine and be both less costly, beneficial for donestic enterprise/workers and safer since spare parts are made at home.

    Actually reason also might be small fleet, imagine having to obtain spares and maintenance from IL, Boeing, Airbus and whoever else, its expected that IL would get cut down due to fact they had small number of them and spares were probably more expencive due to fact they often were produced per piece, unlike for 737 for an example whos parts are produced in thousands, even tho maybe operating them was cheaper.

    Well it still requires fairly big changes to the design due to probably? new engines etc and avionics etc. Hopefully i get to fly it one day.

    Nyet

    I specificially saud maintenance was cheaper too.
    x_54_u43
    x_54_u43

    Posts : 204
    Points : 222
    Join date : 2015-09-19

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  x_54_u43 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:49 pm

    RedJasmin wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Militarov, you should also put those pics on multimedia tread, those are some good shots. thumbsup


    ALSO:

    Aeroflot picked up 25th and 26tth Superjet:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73055/
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73121/


    Agreed, great photography, and nice to see the factory floor so full Very Happy

    What surprised me, was that the IL-76 is still being built with the glass nose. I  would have thought that with modern avionics it would have been deemed redundant and deleted to save weight / simplify construction etc.

    You do realize that's for helping the crew land on unprepared/ghetto-tier airfields? No replacing that with avionics.

    Sponsored content

    Russian Civil Aviation: News #2 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:13 am