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    Heavy calibre ammo (Artillliery-IFV-Tank-AA-Naval guns)

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    Project Canada

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    Re: Heavy calibre ammo (Artillliery-IFV-Tank-AA-Naval guns)

    Post  Project Canada on Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:10 am

    eehnie wrote:It means the basic self propelled mortars on the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang platforms will be have very likely this new 2A89 weapon of 152mm instead of the also recent 2A80 weapon of 120mm.

    Why would they need a new 152mm artillery gun for Armata when they already have Koalitsya?
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    eehnie

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    Re: Heavy calibre ammo (Artillliery-IFV-Tank-AA-Naval guns)

    Post  eehnie on Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:19 am

    About how the time puts the things in its place. Interesting to remember:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1606p200-russian-gun-artillery-discussion-thread#171664

    eehnie wrote:I think it would be room for a new weapon of 152mm in the mold of the 2A80 weapon of 120mm, that can be used as mortar perfectly.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t1606p200-russian-gun-artillery-discussion-thread#171681

    GarryB wrote:
    would be room for a new weapon of 152mm in the mold of the 2A80 weapon of 120mm, that can be used as mortar perfectly.

    Why? Why develop a brand new calibre? A 240mm mortar can't outrange a 122mm gun, so any 152mm calibre mortar wont outrange existing 240mm mortars and wont come close to current 152mm guns let alone outrange them.

    Why would a 70km range Coalition in 152mm calibre adapt to firing 152mm mortar rounds likely with a range of 12-14km.... especially when existing 120mm gun/mortars can reach 13km range targets already.

    There is no value in introducing a new calibre of Mortar round inferior to already existing calibres (160mm and 240mm).

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    eehnie

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    Re: Heavy calibre ammo (Artillliery-IFV-Tank-AA-Naval guns)

    Post  eehnie on Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:29 am

    Project Canada wrote:
    eehnie wrote:It means the basic self propelled mortars on the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang platforms will be have very likely this new 2A89 weapon of 152mm instead of the also recent 2A80 weapon of 120mm.

    Why would they need a new 152mm artillery gun for Armata when they already have Koalitsya?

    The type of weapon is different. It will be likely three different weapons of 152mm that cover the entire spectrum of ranges, firing agility and direct-indirect fire:

    - 2A88 152mm: The purpose is long range direct fire. Mounted on the Armata platform gives as result the 2S35.
    - 2A89 152mm: The purpose is to allow indirect (mortar) fire combined with direct fire. Mounted on the Armata platform will give as result another different self propelled artillery piece.
    - 2A83 152mm: The purpose is agile direct (tank-antitank) fire. Mounted on the Armata platform would give as result a T-14 with weapon of 152mm.

    Being of the same caliber, the three potential weapons have the advantage of being able to share a part of their ammunition.

    In fact this follows also the same scheme that we have in the group of calibers around 125mm:

    - 2A?? 130mm: The purpose is long range direct fire. Mounted on the MAZ-543 platform gives as result the A-222 Bereg.
    - 2A80 120mm: The purpose is to allow indirect (mortar) fire combined with direct fire. Mounted on the BMD-4M platform gives as result the 2S42. Mounted on the BMP-3 platform gives as result the 2S31.
    - 2A82 125mm: The purpose is agile direct fire (tank-antitank) Mounted on the Armata platform gives as result the T-14.

    Note that the 122mm caliber weapons would be also more oriented to the long range direct fire.

    In this case for the range of calibers around 125mm, every caliber needs its own ammunition even being for the same use. The system designed for the 152mm caliber will be far more efficient, significantly more powerful, and will be available for the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang platforms.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Heavy calibre ammo (Artillliery-IFV-Tank-AA-Naval guns)

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:40 am

    They have clearly developed a 152mm calibre gun mortar... not to be confused with the 152mm tank gun, or the 152mm artillery gun.

    The purpose of this weapon will be short range infantry and armour support with heavy HE projectiles.

    Without any actual details on the system we can assume a projectile weight in the range of 40kgs because that is the mortar bomb weight of the 160mm mortar.

    The firing range is unknown but unlikely to be more than 15-20km because this is a low to medium pressure gun/mortar.

    The only serious purpose for this calibre would be to enlarge the fuse area to enable guided rounds to be cheaper.

    The problem will be weight of the round but as all new guns have unmanned turrets ammo handling will be automatic anyway.

    The other problem is the number of rounds that could be carried on any given vehicle.

    AFAIK the 120mm is good enough... the airborne have chosen the 120mm calibre as their standard replacement for the 120mm NONA.

    For the time being I suspect the smaller calibre will be used because smaller rounds are getting the job done and there is no urgent need for a larger weapon... the same situation as with the 152mm tank gun vs the 125mm tank gun.

    Why would they need a new 152mm artillery gun for Armata when they already have Koalitsya?

    To replace the 120mm gun/mortar calibres.


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Heavy calibre ammo (Artillliery-IFV-Tank-AA-Naval guns)

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:They have clearly developed a 152mm calibre gun mortar... not to be confused with the 152mm tank gun, or the 152mm artillery gun.

    The purpose of this weapon will be short range infantry and armour support with heavy HE projectiles.

    Without any actual details on the system we can assume a projectile weight in the range of 40kgs because that is the mortar bomb weight of the 160mm mortar.

    The firing range is unknown but unlikely to be more than 15-20km because this is a low to medium pressure gun/mortar.

    The only serious purpose for this calibre would be to enlarge the fuse area to enable guided rounds to be cheaper.

    The problem will be weight of the round but as all new guns have unmanned turrets ammo handling will be automatic anyway.

    The other problem is the number of rounds that could be carried on any given vehicle.

    AFAIK the 120mm is good enough... the airborne have chosen the 120mm calibre as their standard replacement for the 120mm NONA.

    For the time being I suspect the smaller calibre will be used because smaller rounds are getting the job done and there is no urgent need for a larger weapon... the same situation as with the 152mm tank gun vs the 125mm tank gun.

    Why would they need a new 152mm artillery gun for Armata when they already have Koalitsya?

    To replace the 120mm gun/mortar calibres.

    I'm thinking that maybe it's a replacement for the 2S4 Tyulpan?

    A similar sort of specialized weapon.

    With modern guided shells of course, there's less need for the massive 240mm mortar shells of yesteryear. The calibre is now downsized, and that allows for a faster rate of fire and more ammo onboard.

    Also, compared to a standard 120mm mortar shell, a 152mm shell might be able to house a thermobaric mixture significant enough to equal the destructive power of a 240mm HE shell against softer targets.

    Such vehicles will probably be equipped with both HE and thermobaric shells. Gonna be a real urban-warfare and anti-bunker shocker.

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    Re: Heavy calibre ammo (Artillliery-IFV-Tank-AA-Naval guns)

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