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    Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

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    eridan

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  eridan on Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:29 am

    Obviously they've decided not to go with a radial engine. Will they be using a german engine as some media have claimed or has a russian one been found?
    Chinese CJ7 is an obvious attempt to go as cheap as possible.
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    George1

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:45 am

    Yak-152 is equipped with the innovative RED A03T piston diesel engine fueled with aviation kerosene.

    http://eng.irkut.com/products/74/


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    Militarov

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:33 pm

    eridan wrote:Obviously they've decided not to go with a radial engine. Will they be using a german engine as some media have claimed or has a russian one been found?
    Chinese CJ7 is an obvious attempt to go as cheap as possible.

    https://red-aircraft.com/engines/red-a03-v12/?lang=en
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    medo

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:24 pm



    RED already install the engine for Yak-152 in test Yak-52. Actually not only engine but a whole front section.
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    hoom

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  hoom on Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:54 am

    A Diesel Engine!
    But then using aviation Kerosene???
    Why not use a normal engine then? dunno
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    George1

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:53 pm



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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:07 pm

    So is that a T-41 equivalent for basic training?
    After this one do they jump straight onto the Yak-130? Surely not..
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:41 pm

    Theoretically that is what SR-10 is being pushed for. But so far, it is L-39
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    GarryB

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:08 am

    After this one do they jump straight onto the Yak-130? Surely not..

    No serious reason why not... the Yak-130 would be capable of basic jet training right up to advanced training.

    Having an extra step is clearly something they want, so the cheaper obsolete L39 fills a stopgap role between single engine turboprop trainer where you learn basic single engine control and manouvers and basic navigation, with the L39 moving them up to intermediate step in an aircraft that is simple and cheap and largely manual, with the next step being the Yak-130 with multi jet engine controls and advanced navigation and weapons training as well as advanced aerodynamics.... the next step being a two seat Flanker or Fulcrum... or transport or bomber or whatever depending on the unit they end up in.


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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:03 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    After this one do they jump straight onto the Yak-130? Surely not..

    No serious reason why not... the Yak-130 would be capable of basic jet training right up to advanced training.

    Having an extra step is clearly something they want, so the cheaper obsolete L39 fills a stopgap role between single engine turboprop trainer where you learn basic single engine control and manouvers and basic navigation, with the L39 moving them up to intermediate step in an aircraft that is simple and cheap and largely manual, with the next step being the Yak-130 with multi jet engine controls and advanced navigation and weapons training as well as advanced aerodynamics.... the next step being a two seat Flanker or Fulcrum... or transport or bomber or whatever depending on the unit they end up in.

    How come not a turboprop-powered trainer (that can be lightly armed) like the T-6A/B or Super Tucano?
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    Giulio

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  Giulio on Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:16 pm

    hoom wrote:A Diesel Engine!
    But then using aviation Kerosene???
    Why not use a normal engine then? dunno

    I don't know that, but I think kerosene + Diesel fuel: No.1 Diesel fuel. It is a blend.

    And about the training aircrafts, I think that each aircraft could be good, if you put the cockpit and avionics of a Su-27 in a smaller aircraft, you obtain a perfect avionics and procedures simulator at very low cost.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:28 pm

    How come not a turboprop-powered trainer (that can be lightly armed) like the T-6A/B or Super Tucano?

    the turboprop trainer offers an extra step above a basic trainer (Yak-152) that offers small jet like performance without the cost of a jet.

    The L39 fullfils that role simply because it is already paid for, so it is cheap in that sense, but because it is a foreign aircraft then it will start to become expensive after spare parts pool is used up and surplus airframes are used for parts.

    This SR-10, being very light, with modest power and fairly basic avionics offers the potential for light jet speeds and performance with turboprop costs, so it would be an excellent replacement for the L39 to transition pilots from a basic trainer to a jet trainer.


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    franco

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  franco on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:33 pm

    NOVOSIBIRSK, June 26 -. RIA Novosti aircraft for initial flight training Yak-152 is scheduled to start production in March 2017, he told reporters in chief videoconferencing Russian Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev.

    "It should (be started) in the series come out in March 2017", - said the commander in chief during the action "contract service - your choice!".

    "We have to do it, and I think the industry will do it according to plan, the aircraft must fly over the (next) two months continue to pass tests to confirm their quality and continue to go into mass production." - Said Bondarev, answering the question of the date of the first Yak-152 flight.

    As previously reported, the Yak-152 aircraft will be the initial flight training for flight schools and first-rate schools. Then the students will change to a combat training aircraft Yak-130.

    marcellogo

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    aircraft for initial training of the Yak-152.

    Post  marcellogo on Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Yak-152 is a primary trainer with a turboprop engine, the Yak-130 is a lead in fighter trainer that has advanced flight control systems allowing it to simulate the flight performance of anything from an AN-124 to a Su-35 or PAK FA... there is no need for a cheap intermediate trainer between those two.

    The best bet for this light trainer is as a cheaper alternative to the Yak-130 for countries that don't need the sophistication of the Yak, and can't afford the operational costs of such a sophisticated light training aircraft.

    Would be a cheap light trainer for India where many of its main fighter aircraft are two seat aircraft so the level of training in light training aircraft is not so demanding.

    As an airfield hack and early trainer the SR-10 would be excellent for countries that prefer two seat operational aircraft as an intermediate step from a basic turboprop trainer to the full power fully armed two seat model fighter bomber like the Su-30MKI.

    A centre pod that simulates guided weapon use would be invaluable for the SR-10... the newer guided munitions from Russia included podded seekers that can be used for training and would be relatively cheap and simple to add to an aircraft.
    Well, here in Italy (you know...M-346) tthey think exactly the opposite: there is a lot of savings that can be done with passing to a three trainers line.
    Yak-130/M-346 are quite big, high performance and complexity birds, so using them for all the basic and advance d training instead of MB-339 would be both a economical nonsense than a quite risky thing for trainees.
    So basically the idea is: a high performance (relative to category) primary trainer, in our case turboprop version of SF-260, yours Yak-152; a basic to early advanced jet trainer, lighter than the ones actually in service and just for the final part a lead-in trainer.
    Primary trainer would take care some parts of the syllabus made by the previous generation jet trainer (great savings), intermediate part would be covered by the lighter one (moderate savings) while just the final one would be covered by the costly lead-in trainers.
    Still the lead-in would take upon itself a lot of hours that in the previous model would have been done in OCU two seat version of the actual operative fighter planes, so the relatively greater expense one have in using it in the limited advanced training phase would be more than compensed by the HUGE savings obtaned in cutting down the previous OCU phase.
    In the same time transition from a trainer model to the successive one other would be (hopefully) way smoothier, so to allow a greater succes percentage in pilot's selection (huge savings also there).
    A plane likeSR-10 would play IMHO the intermediate phase role excellently but also the actual L-39, a champion of economicity in his own class, would be quite good.
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    franco

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  franco on Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:01 am

    First Yak-152 prototype getting ready for Flight tests scheduled to start September 10th.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2107350.html
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    hoom

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  hoom on Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:44 am

    OK I figured out why Diesel engine + Aviation Kerosene.

    Aviation Kerosene = Jet fuel.
    Normally can't be used in piston engines but does work in Diesel engines.

    Normal piston engine planes use Avgas which requires more careful handling, is less common/more expensive.

    So its about cutting Avgas out of the logistics.

    Its not the first, they were used on airships inter-war then died out but there have been a bunch of companies making them post 2000.
    But those seem to be all under 200hp for putting on Cesnas etc aftermarket, so a 500hp one going on a production plane is a pretty big step.
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    hoom

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  hoom on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:38 am

    Hmm, according to https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/06/22/new-yak-152-trainer-will-come-with-alternate-powerplants/ the Russian Airforce Yak-152s won't be using the Diesel.
    RED are a German company -> need to use domestic engines instead & there is apparently a hefty performance decrease vs the conventional domestic Radial powered version
    The M-14X-powered version is lighter, with gross weight (with the RED A03/V12 engine) reduced from 2,125 kg (4,685 pounds) to 1,400 kg (3,086 pounds).
    It has g limits of +9/-7; the g limits of the diesel version are+5/-3.
    While the maximum diving speed remains at 500 km/h (270 knots), the maximum level speed drops from 380 km/h (205 knots) to 335 km/h (181 knots).
    The maximum climb rate rises from 8 to 11 meters per second (1,575 to 2,165 ft/min).
    Takeoff run decreases from 300 (990 feet) to 200 meters (660 feet).
    The landing run is reduced from 450 meters (1,485 feet) to 250 meters (825 feet), as a result of the landing speed going down from 145 km/h (78 knots) to 115 km/h (62 nots).

    ult

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  ult on Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:17 pm

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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:33 pm

    Pilot succesfully conducts the maiden flight of the Yak-152 aircraft:
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    franco

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  franco on Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:26 am

    Some recent photos of the Yak-152 doing flight testing. Nice shot of the -152 sitting beside a Yak-52 which it replaces.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2167508.html
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    Rmf

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  Rmf on Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:11 pm

    i dont think this airplane engine is good choise for russia, air cooled is better then water cooled in freezing russian weather, maintenance is easier , damage tolerant ,and heats up faster.
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    franco

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  franco on Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:06 am

    Photos of production of the Yak-152;

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2168673.html

    kopyo-21

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  kopyo-21 on Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:52 pm

    When compare data sheet of two engine versions of Yak-152, I see the Yak-152 with RED diesel engine has max range of 1,500 km while max range of the Yak-152 with M-14X radial engine is 1,000 km. Both of them use iternal fuel only and suppose they have the same internal fuel weight of 200kg. Does RED engine really save fuel more 50% than M-14X?

    wilhelm

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  wilhelm on Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:19 pm

    kopyo-21 wrote:When compare data sheet of two engine versions of Yak-152, I see the Yak-152 with RED diesel engine has max range of 1,500 km while max range of the Yak-152 with M-14X radial engine is 1,000 km. Both of them use iternal fuel only and suppose they have the same internal fuel weight of 200kg. Does RED engine really save fuel more 50% than M-14X?

    I can well believe it.
    Years ago when Zoche was touting their aero diesel, one of the main selling points was that it was so much more efficient than many older aero engines.
    They had been touting their diesel at the general aviation market, where there are tens of thousands of planes equipped with radial/piston Continental and other engines of about 360hp and under.
    They were reckoning an improvement in range of between 50% to 80%, depending on type. The upper % figure is basically almost a doubling of range.
    And it isn't only its efficiency...it's the availability of avgas that is also an issue, with seperate delivery, storage, and pumping facilites required.
    Diesels run on jet fuel, and indeed, on a wide variety of fuels.
    I recall reading many years ago that many of the more popular/best selling light aviation piston engines are actually quite elderly in their design origins.
    It is amazing to think that the M-14, Continental O-300, and Lycoming O-320 are all designs originating from the 1940's and 50's, or between 65 to 75 years ago! Obviously they have been updated, but that fact remains.
    Many companies have been looking at aero diesels again in the last decade or two, among them continental itself, which has licenced a French aero diesel design.
    The Germans were big pioneers in the aero diesel field in the 30's and 40's in particular, with various airship and long range aircraft and flying boats powered by them for the good reason of their excellent fuel efficiency. They were used in combat too.
    For example, the B&V Ha139 was used to deliver mail across the Atlantic on 5000km flights.

    I think the diesel on the Yak-152 is a good idea.
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    George1

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    Re: Yak-152 Trainer Aircraft

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:43 am

    About training aircraft Yak-152



    The magazine «Air & Cosmos» published an article by Peter Butovo (in collaboration with Antony Angrand) "Premier vol du YaK-152", which provides some additional details of the program of development of the new Russian training aircraft initial training Yak-152.

    So, it is reported that various motors can be mounted on the Yak-152. Option for FSI six-cylinder diesel engine equipped with Russian A03T 500 hp, produced by RED Gmbh. To do this, the engine is a three-bladed propeller MTV-9-E-C. Another engine option may be a reciprocating engine OEDB M-14X power of 360 hp, which is used in Chinese training aircraft Hongdu L-7. The other two options can act diesel engine RED A05 300 hp Ukrainian and turboprop engine AI-450 (450 hp). The maximum fuel capacity is 175 kg of kerosene or other liquid fuels.

    According to the requirements of the Ministry of Defense of Russia, on the plane must be installed cockpit, similar modern aircraft, standing on the arms, and the Yak-152 is to teach the necessary skills with the purpose of better development of combat training aircraft Yak-130. In an embodiment, a light combat aircraft Yak-152 with engine RED A03T can carry up to 550 kg payload on four pylons. It can be NAR blocks, bombs, guns, or "air-to-air" missiles.

    The program itself was launched in 2001 to replace the Yak-52 aircraft, whose concept leaves in 1970. Two projects have been put forward - the Yak-152 and Su-49. The choice was stopped on the latest version, but the aircraft did not perform a deep study of the project.

    Therefore, the new tender was announced in 2007, this time within the framework of UTC TNG (The training complex initial training), but he had no success. At this time, the Yak-152 was created in accordance with China's needs. Under the contract, signed in June 2006, Yakovlev Design Bureau used for the development of the Yak-152 project of AVIC Hongdu L-7 (CJ-7) "Cadet / Sokolik", equipped with a piston engine. L-7 prototype was presented at the air show in Zhuhai in November 2010. However, the state of the Chinese program is unknown. The plane made only one flight and is currently undergoing static tests.

    UTC PNP program continued under the code name "Bird-Air" aircraft full-scale mock-up was approved by the Commission of the Ministry of Defense of Russia on December 23-25, 2014. The contract should be built two prototypes and two fuselage for static tests. Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov in September 2015 stated that the Ministry of Defense plans to buy 150 aircraft of this type. And in June 2015, Deputy Director of Aviation Department - Head of the flight activity DOSAAF Andrei Lebedev said that DOSAAF intends to purchase 105 aircraft until 2020.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2205280.html


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