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    Accidents and Disasters Thread

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    Karl Haushofer
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:46 pm

    ISIL claims responsibility for this. I'd say that BS.

    JohninMK
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:00 pm

    Interesting and quite full analysis in the editorial part in this link to ZH. Nut no mention of maintenance issues. The comments have it down to a false flag operation, as you might perhaps expect from ZH.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-31/no-survivors-after-russian-airplane-224-board-crashes-egypts-sinai-peninsula

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:03 pm

    Should Russia consider banning all civilian flights in the Middle East and Northern Africa for the time being?


    Last edited by Karl Haushofer on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  iraqidabab on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:04 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:ISIL claims responsibility for this. I'd say that BS.

    An Egyptian Mi-17 was shot down by IS Manpad in Sinai earlier, they have Manpads is only thing confirmed.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  max steel on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:15 pm

    Condolences.

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:18 pm

    I reached conclusions that ISIS' claimed responsibility is a bluff - MANPADs can't hti targets aboce circa 6km celling and civilian aircraftfly at 10-12km. In orderyo shot down an airliner they would need a BUK-type SAm and if they did have it, the launch would have been picked up by Egyptian and Israeli radars.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  medo on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:23 pm

    RIP

    But the first news said, that pilot made a contact with air traffic control and that they want to land in the nearest airport, what could indicate, that the plane have technical problems.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:28 pm

    BKP wrote:There's way too much of this kind of thing, still. Russia needs to bring back firing squads, because whatever else they may or may not have tried in order to clean up this filthy industry hasn't worked. Let's face it; civil aviation is an eternal national embarrassment for Russia.
    Firing squads? Why not spanish inquisition?? Strict preflight check regulations. Private shitty company like Metrojet had fatal accidents before. Ofc look for conspiracy when Russian aviation has higher crash rathe than fucking Africa.
    Imho Russian gov needs again to take all into their hands and sort this thing once and for all. I remember when Aeroflot was pretty much only 1 company u could fly.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:42 pm

    This mentality of untouchability and unacountability has to go. I hope whole lot of responsible people will rot in jail. It won't bring the dead but it will set an example. Russia is very soft when it comes to justice, nothing like it was 30 years ago. Esp ehen You have the money, conections. It won't surprise me if Metrojet guys already in hiding and they already have scapegoats. I'm fucking furious. Draconian laws will only work if judicial system is squeeky clean. Not the case here.


    Last edited by Regular on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sorr for double post, my phone was acting up)

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:50 pm

    I agree. Aeroflot seems to have a good record but not this other company. Seems lack of proper maintenance is the main current cause (thought) and airliners need to get their crap together.

    I think you will be right in that the management have already decided which scapegoat it is and what country they will go in hiding to.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Dima on Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:01 pm

    Tragic and completely unexpected...
    Hope its not a terrorists attack... and just in case it is, then Russia needs to move in.

    Is there any truth in the earlier post regarding access to the crash site is being denied to the Russian teams?

    Btw, why is it being discussed in the civil aviation thread? This incident/accident needs a separate dedicated thread. Mods, plz do the necessary.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:04 pm




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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:12 pm



    Well for once something useful coming from Israelis...

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:18 pm

    Because they have no intentions for Syria right?

    Trying to whore themselfs into allowing themselfs to fly over Syrian airspace and do their little terrorist thing they are doing for decades is certainly not something one can forget, unless they are raised in the west where general attention span is lower than the moral code and intelligence.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:21 pm

    Sad tragedy.  I guess if I ever fly through or in Russia, it will be Aeroflot.  These small companies like Regular pointed out seem to have problems.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:26 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Sad tragedy.  I guess if I ever fly through or in Russia, it will be Aeroflot.  These small companies like Regular pointed out seem to have problems.

    My gf is always flying with Aeroflot to and from Moscow, few times with Air Serbia tho but they are reliable, there is even Jat Tehnika, overhaul and maintenance company in Serbia for civilian liners.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  medo on Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:03 pm

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-31/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-russian-airplane-crash

    If this will be confirmed, that ISIS actually plant a bomb in Russian passenger plane, than we could only assume, what blow will this mean for Egyptian president al Sisy and Egyptian security forces on the airfield. This will be a big blow for Egyptian tourism, which bring a lot of money and jobs to Egyptians. Not only Russians will stop traveling to Egypt and ME, but others could stop traveling too. Al Sisy will have to increase his fight against jihadist terrorists in Egypt.

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    "Kovalia" A320 crashed

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:09 pm

    Countries like Turkey and Egypt have been death traps for Russian tourists. Better for Russians to travel to Crimea and Sochi instead of these countries.

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:33 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Because they have no intentions for Syria right?

    Trying to whore themselfs into allowing themselfs to fly over Syrian airspace and do their little terrorist thing they are doing for decades is certainly not something one can forget, unless they are raised in the west where general attention span is lower than the moral code and intelligence.
    What danger does Assad pose for Israel? There was no war between two since 1980s and no war between Israel and Hezhollah since 2006.

    You're fooling yourself thinking that Assad's anti-Israeli stance is anything more than rhetorics. He can do nothing against Israel even fi he wanted to.

    (In Iran there's an ultra-orthodox faction of clerics who think destruction of Israel is necessary to facilitate the return of their Hidden Imam - they are not currently in power)

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:36 pm



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    Werewolf
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:39 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Because they have no intentions for Syria right?

    Trying to whore themselfs into allowing themselfs to fly over Syrian airspace and do their little terrorist thing they are doing for decades is certainly not something one can forget, unless they are raised in the west where general attention span is lower than the moral code and intelligence.
    What danger does Assad pose for Israel? There was no war between two since 1980s and no war between Israel and Hezhollah since 2006.

    You're fooling yourself thinking that Assad's anti-Israeli stance is anything more than rhetorics. He can do nothing against Israel even fi he wanted to.

    (In Iran there's an ultra-orthodox faction of clerics who think destruction of Israel is necessary to facilitate the return of their Hidden Imam - they are not currently in power)

    Syria being hostile to Israel?

    The other way around you judeophilie imbecile. There was never any suggestion from Iranian side to attack or destruct israel, but we have hundreds over hundreds of mad jews declaring to bomb Syria,Iran and whatever country, which subs like you always ignore but never can speak about it because you drive the jew shit bullshit propaganda all along.

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:58 pm

    Werewolf wrote: judeophilie
    Hihihi... Laughing No my dear. Liking Jews and liking some of their ideas about themselves are two totally different things altogether.

    End of topic.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:32 pm

    CAIRO (Sputnik) – The pilot of the Russian airliner that crashed in the Sinai Peninsula did not request assistance from the air traffic control at Sharm El-Sheikh airport before the incident, Egyptian Minister of Civil Aviation Hossam Kamal said Saturday.

    Egyptian sources were quoted as saying earlier the Airbus-321 flight 9268 pilot requested help from air traffic controllers due to technical difficulties. The airliner with 224 people on board disappeared from radars 23 minutes after takeoff en route to St. Petersburg.

    “The air traffic controllers’ communication with the Russian airplane was carried out normally until the disaster,” Kamal said at a press conference.

    The minister added that the Russian pilot did not ask for help before “the aircraft disappeared from the radar suddenly.”

    A Kogalymavia spokeswoman said earlier the pilot had 12,000 hours of flying experience and the plane had been fully serviced.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151031/1029403587/egypt-airliner-crash-no-request.html#ixzz3qAi7muWa

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Regular on Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:44 pm

    Yes guys, try to use Aeroflot. It's 3*, safe and reliable. I personally had no problem with them. And my mother flies with them very often and according to her it has best service in Russia.
    So I was watching Russian tv and it seems that airline building was raided. And there are talks about banning older than 15 year old planes from operating. Damn.
    Very sad, for catholics today is day to remember and honor all deceased, my family will be lighting candles for victims as well.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:34 pm

    I'm going to speculate and put forward reasons why this may have been a bomb. That the early reports of the pilot saying he had a technical problem and wanted to divert were all wrong, and generated from Egyptian sources. I do not say the early reports were deliberatley wrong, but it is in Egypt's benefit that it was a technical fault and not a bomb, so the early "mood music", which often sets the scene and is all many people ever bother with, is important. Egypt cannot let this be a bomb as it will make the tourist recovery even more difficult, and the industry has never fully recovered from the 1997 Luxor massacre due to periodic terrorist attacks over the years in Cairo, middle Egypt and of course major attack in Sharm el-Sheikh in 2005. This shows of course that there are terrorists who want to hurt Egypt. If it was a bomb then it will also hurt Egypt more if the aircraft comes down on Egyptian soil and not over the Med or any other area on the route to Peter. That Russia is now engaged in Syria must be seen as a possible cause for this being a terrorist attack, and of course more than ISIL will want to hurt Russia. So on one side there is sudden technical faliure, which is very rare to happen so quickly that pilots cannot send SOS, and on the other all the reasons I put forward for it being terrorism. To me the balance, without yet any forensic details known, tilts more to terrorism than accident. We should know by tomorrow morning I think.

    On another matter, not all independant Russian airlines are "cowboy" operations. Orenair is an excellent airline, tho it is now Aeroflot owned for a couple of years.

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