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    Accidents and Disasters Thread

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    Militarov
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:09 pm

    "The Russian airline whose jet crashed in Egypt killing everyone on board said on Monday the crash could not have been caused by a technical fault or human error. The crash, in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday, could only have been the result of some other "technical or physical action" which caused it to break up in the air and plummet to the ground, said Alexander Smirnov, deputy general director of the airline, Kogalymavia. He did not specify what that action might have been, saying it was up to the official investigation to determine.

    "The plane was in excellent condition," Smirnov told a news conference in Moscow. "We rule out a technical fault and any mistake by the crew," he said. He said there had been no emergency call from the pilots to services on the ground during the flight, which took off from the Egyptian Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh and was bound for the Russian city of St Petersburg. Kogalymavia's deputy general director for engineering, Andrei Averyanov, said a 2001 incident when the plane's tail section struck the tarmac on landing was fully repaired and could not have been a factor in the crash.

    He said the aircraft's engines had undergone routine inspection in Moscow on Oct. 26 which found no problems and he said in the five flights before the crash, the crew recorded no technical problems in the aircraft's log book. Oksana Golovina, a representative of the holding company that controls Kogalymavia, told the news conference the airline had experienced no financial problems which could have influenced flight safety."


    Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/02/uk-egypt-crash-russia-airline-idUKKCN0SR12T20151102

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:11 pm

    "The Russian plane that crashed in Egypt was not struck from the outside and the pilot did not make a distress call before it disappeared from radar, a source in the committee analyzing the flight recorders said on Monday. The source declined to give more details but based his comments on the preliminary examination of the black boxes recovered from the Airbus A321 which crashed in the Sinai Peninsula on Saturday killing all 224 people on board. The Egyptian government said the black boxes were being examined by Egyptian and Russian experts along with German and French specialists from Airbus and from Ireland where the aircraft was registered. It said the search was continuing across the 9-sq-km crash site. Security sources said intelligence agencies had obtained a copy of the passenger list.

    Russian officials have said the plane, carrying holidaymakers from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh to St Petersburg, likely broke up in mid-air but said it was too early to say what caused it to crash. When asked if a terrorist attack could be to blame, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov said no theory could yet be ruled out. An Egyptian militant group affiliated with Islamic State said on Saturday it brought down the plane "in response to Russian air strikes that killed hundreds of Muslims on Syrian land". Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov dismissed the claim, saying it "can't be considered accurate". "


    Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/02/us-egypt-crash-idUSKCN0SR1FH20151102

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:18 am

    Black box data soon, just like MH-17. Oh sorry, misread weeks for months...............................

    CAIRO (Sputnik) — Preparation of a report on flight data recorders of Russian crashed A321 will take from one to four weeks, spokesman for the Egyptian government Hossam al-Kawish said Tuesday.

    "Transcript work on the black boxes depends on the technical condition in which they were found. Civil Aviation Minister assured that the black boxes were found in good condition, thus the report should be prepared in short period of time, from one to four weeks," Kawish told CBC News.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151103/1029507907/a321-flight-data-recorders-in-four-weeks.html#ixzz3qNYntp4t

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:50 am

    "Items not related to the structure of A-321 found at crash site" says this report from Rossiya 24. http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2682625&cid=7  
    An earlier report now widely circulated says that an American infra-red satellite had detected a heat flash over Sinai at the time of the disaster. Yet their satelites seem unable to detect even the existance of Ukraine, let alone airliners being shot down or Russian "invasions"......

    NTV are quoting Interfax that a source in Cairo says the last contact from the pilot was four minutes before the aircraft dissapeared from radar, but that sounds in the background were "Uncharacteristic of normal flight sounds", tho the pilot did not report any problems. The link NTV provided to Interfax does not work and I cannot find this report anywhere but on NTV http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1560857/

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Neutrality on Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:47 am

    Khepesh wrote:"Items not related to the structure of A-321 found at crash site" says this report from Rossiya 24. http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2682625&cid=7  
    An earlier report now widely circulated says that an American infra-red satellite had detected a heat flash over Sinai at the time of the disaster. Yet their satelites seem unable to detect even the existance of Ukraine, let alone airliners being shot down or Russian "invasions"......

    NTV are quoting Interfax that a source in Cairo says the last contact from the pilot was four minutes before the aircraft dissapeared from radar, but that sounds in the background were "Uncharacteristic of normal flight sounds", tho the pilot did not report any problems. The link NTV provided to Interfax does not work and I cannot find this report anywhere but on NTV http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1560857/

    If there were "uncharacteristic flight sounds" wouldn't the pilot have picked it up on his dashboard? AFAIK every little piece of the plane's equipment is represented on the pilot's dashboard so that he can act accordingly in case something goes wrong. The media are full of shit too, they are polluting the facts with speculation of their own.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:24 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    If there were "uncharacteristic flight sounds" wouldn't the pilot have picked it up on his dashboard? AFAIK every little piece of the plane's equipment is represented on the pilot's dashboard so that he can act accordingly in case something goes wrong. The media are full of shit too, they are polluting the facts with speculation of their own.
    I suspect that report originates from Egyptian "officers daughter" who has some connection with Cairo ATC and is exagerrating or simply lying. I never trust NTV since the Gusinsky days, even with him now gone, but the news is put out so I think worth repeating just in case there is some truth, and if it is at least true that last contact was four minutes before whatever happened and no reports of problems, then it shows a very sudden problem. It is noticed that on Saturday and Sunday the media etc were talking in terms of it not being terrorist, but they only mentioned this is relation to missile and strangely never said the word "bomb". I thought this curious as it must be a possibility from the very first news, but now "bomb" is mentioned, and with increasing frequency. I suspect that the cockpit recorder has already been listen too and it will be known if there was sound of explosion, or even some problem within the cockpit. CVR noise gave the clue to Pan Am 103 being a bomb.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:47 pm

    I was about to post the video that is said to show the inside of the cabin minutes before the crash. It shows what looks like white smoke coming out of the ventilators and the passengers are speaking Russian and are concerned about this, but not very much. I believe that video is old and shows the condensation that can occur when taking of from a very hot environment, like Egypt, and ascending into high cold air.

    However, breaking news. Forensic experts have divided the remains of the victims so far returned to Peter into two groups. First those whose bodies were found in the forward and central part of the aircraft, and secondly those whose bodies were found towards the tail. Injuries to those in the first group are traumas expected with an aircraft crash, while those in the second group have been burnt and many have metal particles and other parts of the aircraft embedded in them, injuries that can really only be caused by an explosion and the forensic experts say that these bodies show what could be termed the effects of a thermal blast shockwave. http://lifenews.ru/news/167897  The baggage hold of the airbus is directly under where these passegers would have sat from rear of the wings to the tail.


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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:09 pm

    "Egypt’s civil aviation ministry said on Tuesday there were no facts to substantiate assertions by Russian officials that the Russian airliner that crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday broke up in mid-air.

    But spokesman Mohamed Rahmi confirmed that no distress call had been received before the crash, which left wreckage from the Metrojet Airbus 321, carrying Russian holidaymakers back to St Petersburg from the Sinai Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, strewn over more than 3 km (2 miles) of desert. “No communication from the pilot was recorded at the navigation centers requesting anything,” he told Reuters. Rahmi said the investigating team, led by Egypt and aided by experts from Russia, Airbus and Ireland, where the plane is registered, had returned to the crash site on Tuesday morning. Once investigations at the site were completed, probably later in the day, they would focus on analyzing the contents of the black box flight recorders, Rahmi said.

    Sources on the investigation committee have said the recorders are in good condition and should yield clues. Rahmi said there was no proof yet that the plane had broken up in flight. "This could be a long process and we can’t talk about the results as we go along,” he said. However, the fact that no distress call was received, and the wreckage was scattered widely, has suggested a sudden breakup to many experts. Theories floated so far range from a missile attack, or a bomb on board, to a structural failure."


    Hmm...

    Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/03/us-egypt-crash-russia-idUSKCN0SS1LH20151103

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:56 pm

    Egyptian forensic experts say analysis of injuries to victims indicate a mid-air explosion http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151103/1029538354/midair-explosion-a321-forensic-expert.html


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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Neutrality on Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:32 pm

    Yes, now reports are coming out saying that the likeliness of an explosion is very high.

    Without the media BS: this was an explosion.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:34 pm

    If it was a suicide bomber how did he/she enter the plane and pass the inspection?

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:37 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:If it was a suicide bomber how did he/she enter the plane and pass the inspection?

    Its Egypt, who says there was any inspection or security Very Happy

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:40 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:If it was a suicide bomber how did he/she enter the plane and pass the inspection?

    Its Egypt, who says there was any inspection or security Very Happy
    Tourism is their most important industry so security of tourists should be a top priority.

    Hopefully many Russians will now abandon places Egypt, Turkey and Thailand and go for domestic tourism instead.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:36 pm

    On a rough estimate, Russian tourists contribute almost 4% to the total Egyptian economy. There is sharp drop in bookings since Saturday, but this will be very short term and I doubt if Egypt will be deserted by tourists for long. Egypt is very very popular and Russians are more robust than many other nations when it comes to potential dangers. in Russia the sofa is for sitting on, not hiding behind.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:07 pm

    Khepesh wrote:On a rough estimate, Russian tourists contribute almost 4% to the total Egyptian economy. There is sharp drop in bookings since Saturday, but this will be very short term and I doubt if Egypt will be deserted by tourists for long. Egypt is very very popular and Russians are more robust than many other nations when it comes to potential dangers. in Russia the sofa is for sitting on, not hiding behind.

    Sounds familiar, after that shootout in Tunisia people all over were canceling tours but demand in Serbia skyrocketed. Everyone wanted to go on a fancy vacation on the cheap...lol1

    Nothing will stand between Serb and cheap vacation!!! thumbsup

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:15 pm

    Curious if true

    This is interesting. The map at the RIA Novosti link below is showing the intended flight route and the actual. Kind of what happened with MH-17 flight path change...


    http://cdn11.img22.ria.ru/images/131296/65/1312966557.png

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:55 pm

    Take it as you will

    An engine explosion has been identified as a main lead in the investigation into the cause of the crash of a Russian passenger plane in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, following preliminary analysis of the aircraft's black box recorders, local media reported on Wednesday.

    MOSCOW, November 4 (Sputnik) — According to the Egyptian Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper, citing a source close to the investigation, the probable cause was initially suggested by experts working at the crash site in their analysis of plane debris.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151104/1029589834/media-box-a321-explosion.html#ixzz3qXhToGRd

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:08 pm

    Pity about the CVR

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — On Saturday, Airbus A321 passenger jet crashed en route from Sharm El-Sheikh to St. Petersburg killing all 224 people on board. The event is the worst civil aviation disaster in Russian history.

    "Following the tragic event involving Metrojet’s Airbus A321-200 (registration EI-ETJ), the Investigation Team has announced that the data from the Flight Data Recorder (FDR) has been extracted and validated," the ministry said in a Facebook posting. The ministry added that investigators from the Egypt-led team of experts would study the record in detail.

    It went on to say that the second black box — the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) — was partially damaged and "a lot of work is required in order to extract the data from it."


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151104/1029598503/black-boxes-data-a321-crash.html#ixzz3qXl0fab9

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Neutrality on Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:42 pm

    David Cameron's spokesperson says that there's a possibility the Russian flight was taken down by an explosive. The UK have suspended all flights from Sharm el-Sheikh to London.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  medo on Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:29 pm

    The bomb on the plane is the most probable explanation. This will be a big blow for Egyptian tourism as they will have to increase security measures around tourist and transport facilities.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:34 pm

    "Russian aviation source on Egypt crash: examining version of "something stowed" on board. Nov 4 An investigation into the crash of a Russian plane in Egypt last Saturday is looking into the possibility of an object stowed on board causing the disaster, a Russian aviation source said on Wednesday.

    "There are two versions now under consideration: something stowed inside (the plane) and a technical fault. But the airplane could not just break apart in the air - there should be some action. A rocket is unlikely as there are no signs of that," the source said. (Reporting by Gleb Stolyarov; writing by Katya Golubkova; Editing by Gareth Jones)"


    Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/04/egypt-crash-cause-idUSL8N12Z56I20151104#L5FUMrlrOffPWybS.99

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  zorobabel on Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:51 am

    ISIS has been known to be working on bombs that can be smuggled into planes (getting through security) for a long time now. More likely, however, is the possibility that ISIS had someone working at the airport that got the bomb on board. Sharm el-Sheikh is known for having lax security, anyway.

    The emerging question is how the Kremlin will respond. The current bombing campaign is seemingly inadequate.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  par far on Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:37 pm

    zorobabel wrote:ISIS has been known to be working on bombs that can be smuggled into planes (getting through security) for a long time now. More likely, however, is the possibility that ISIS had someone working at the airport that got the bomb on board. Sharm el-Sheikh is known for having lax security, anyway.

    The emerging question is how the Kremlin will respond. The current bombing campaign is seemingly inadequate.


    It is not isis, it is the CIA.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:33 pm

    par far wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:ISIS has been known to be working on bombs that can be smuggled into planes (getting through security) for a long time now. More likely, however, is the possibility that ISIS had someone working at the airport that got the bomb on board. Sharm el-Sheikh is known for having lax security, anyway.

    The emerging question is how the Kremlin will respond. The current bombing campaign is seemingly inadequate.


    It is not isis, it is the CIA.

    Any proof of that or just the usual 'cia are responsible for everything' mantra?

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:24 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:
    par far wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:ISIS has been known to be working on bombs that can be smuggled into planes (getting through security) for a long time now. More likely, however, is the possibility that ISIS had someone working at the airport that got the bomb on board. Sharm el-Sheikh is known for having lax security, anyway.

    The emerging question is how the Kremlin will respond. The current bombing campaign is seemingly inadequate.


    It is not isis, it is the CIA.

    Any proof of that or just the usual 'cia are responsible for everything' mantra?

    Any proof for your nonsense of ISIS working as some Intelligence Agency with tactics that are rellying on decade old experience of CIA?

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