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    Accidents and Disasters Thread

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    Militarov
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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:43 pm















    Few more shots from Egypt regarding whole body extraction, journalist travels and convoys organised towards crash site for military, specialists, medical workers and journalists.

    My source is: https://twitter.com/Kosarev_RT

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:53 pm

    BKP wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    BKP wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:I really don't think there was any terrorism involved, and most likely it was just malfunctions that caused the plane crash.

    ISIS would have to have planted a bomb on board before takeoff.   This is what Sikh terrorists did to the Air India flight from Canada in 1985.  
    The Sinai would be the last place to look for terrorists in this case.   I don't think it is totally excluded that a bomb could have been planted via
    the luggage if the airport where the plane was loaded is compromised.

    Hmm, in just the last the 15 years the US has been behind all manner of nefarious shenanigans in the ME without suffering a single civil aviation disaster on flights to and from countries located there. At least none that I can recall, but correct me if I'm wrong. But now, just a month into its first substantial military operation outside of its own borders in decades, Russia suffers this?

    No, it's probably just more evidence of the ongoing crummy state of Russian civil aviation. And, if it turns out that there was a bomb planted on board, then why wasn't security better at this time for obvious reasons? Either way, its down to negligence and incompetence. The Russian government must, at long last, do something to get this situation in hand.

    Airport baggage security is controlled by airports outside Russia during international flights.   You can't blame Russia for this.
    I have to correct my assessment, the plane did take off from an airport in the Sinai itself and so it could have been compromised there.

    Now there is evidence that the plane broke up in mid air.   This is now pointing to a bomb on board.

    Russia can't be blamed? Why haven't the US and its "coalition of the willing" partners had similar things happen to them with all of the shit they have pulled in the ME over the years? Russia must embed its own trusted security personnel within the Russian airlines operating at foreign airports. If it can't do this for some reason, then they must cease operating from those places. Russia has enemies who have no moral issue with arranging for the deaths of civilians in order to achieve some end, and yes that does include the US government itself.

    Because such thing is a political act and the terrorists belong to USrael not to Russia.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:00 pm

    Overhead view of the wreckage. It is clear from this that all of the fuselage to the rear of the wings had broken away in flight. I'm certainly no expert on aircraft, but it seems to me that this is very unusual. I know of accidents were an aircraft crashed because the tail ripped off due to rear bulkhead failure, or the control surfaces on the tail suddenly and catastrophically failed and caused the aircraft to drop out of the sky, but that is very rare and I believe confined to older type aircraft with a tail configured like Tu-154 or DC-10. It is of course possible that a technical failure never thought possible with an Airbus has occured, but this breakup pattern looks unusual. What can possibly occur to break an aircraft in two just behind the wings like this...

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:14 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Overhead view of the wreckage. It is clear from this that all of the fuselage to the rear of the wings had broken away in flight. I'm certainly no expert on aircraft, but it seems to me that this is very unusual. I know of accidents were an aircraft crashed because the tail ripped off due to rear bulkhead failure, or the control surfaces on the tail suddenly and catastrophically failed and caused the aircraft to drop out of the sky, but that is very rare and I believe confined to older type aircraft with a tail configured like Tu-154 or DC-10. It is of course possible that a technical failure never thought possible with an Airbus has occured, but this breakup pattern looks unusual. What can possibly occur to break an aircraft in two just behind the wings like this...

    Notice engines position, quite far away from main wreckage and burnt down.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:17 pm





    Satelite shots of the impact area.

    Source: https://russian.rt.com/article/127232

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:25 pm

    If it was a terrorist attack, then Russia would have to try and close flights to Egypt or middle east, and bomb the hell out of the terrorists even more in Syria. Maybe provide assistance to Egypt in Sinai region.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Firebird on Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:24 pm

    Apparently, this article predates the disaster.

    BTW, I don't tend to believe in "coincidences"...

    http://fortruss.blogspot.de/2015/10/ukrainian-wikileaks-mccain-and.html

    Read the article, it says the plan was to have both US AND Russian jets shot down to pit the US vs Russia in the M East.

    Because Russia has been politically so successful with ME govts and potentially creating "anti access zones" there vs the US, there has been talk about drawing Russia into a "2nd Afghanistan" style conflict.

    I wonder if America (or rather, certain American figures) are hell bend on drawing Russia into deep mayhem.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:51 pm

    You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

    If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt. Makes no logical sense.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:57 pm

    sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

    If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

    Well, maybe, just maybe on longshot it would cause retaliation from Russians in terms of land operations in Syria to deal with ISIS threat. But still i dont find whole conspiracy theory very plausible, maybe, you never know but still not very likely. And land operation in Syria would be probably long, expencive in both manpower and funds and it would remind of Afganistan....i guess that would be the idea.


    Last edited by Militarov on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Firebird on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:00 am

    sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

    If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

    Turn it down will you...

    "Afghanistan" means "a quagmire" ie drawing Russia into a long, costly, morale and money sapping campaign. It DOESN'T refer to Afghanistan or any place in particular. Its like calling a military campaign for America a "new Vietnam".

    MOST of the Middle East is infected with ISIS. Much of it has US backed maniacs.
    The loss of 200 innocent Russians is a way of potentially pushing Russia further into a conflict in the M East. More so, that whatever is happening in Arab v Arab events.

    So your attempt to differentiate Egypt/Syria or wherever makes no sense.

    Back to the other pt, its one hell of a coincidence that there was an article re Russian and US jets being knocked out of the sky just a day or two before.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:06 am

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

    If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

    Well, maybe, just maybe on longshot it would cause retaliation from Russians in terms of land operations in Syria to deal with ISIS threat. But still i dont find whole conspiracy theory very plausible, maybe, you never know but still not very likely. And land operation in Syria would be probably long, expencive in both manpower and funds and it would remind of Afganistan....i guess that would be the idea.

    Nobody is dumb enough to start land operation in Syria, least of all Russia.

    Some Americans maybe e.g. John McCain or Hilary Clinton&Co, but list ends there...

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:46 am

    Firebird wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

    If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

    Turn it down will you...

    "Afghanistan" means "a quagmire" ie  drawing Russia into a long, costly, morale and money sapping campaign. It DOESN'T refer to Afghanistan or any place in particular. Its like calling a military campaign for America a "new Vietnam".

    MOST of the Middle East is infected with ISIS. Much of it has US backed maniacs.
    The loss of 200 innocent Russians is a way of potentially pushing Russia further into a conflict in the M East. More so, that whatever is happening in Arab v Arab events.

    So your attempt to differentiate Egypt/Syria or wherever makes no sense.

    Back to the other pt, its one hell of a coincidence that there was an article re Russian and US jets being knocked out of the sky just a day or two before.
    And we all know Russia would just up the ante by bombing more ISIS positions.  That is it.  We all know they are not going to all of a sudden send in some sort of contingent to fight them.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:13 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Firebird wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

    If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

    Turn it down will you...

    "Afghanistan" means "a quagmire" ie  drawing Russia into a long, costly, morale and money sapping campaign. It DOESN'T refer to Afghanistan or any place in particular. Its like calling a military campaign for America a "new Vietnam".

    MOST of the Middle East is infected with ISIS. Much of it has US backed maniacs.
    The loss of 200 innocent Russians is a way of potentially pushing Russia further into a conflict in the M East. More so, that whatever is happening in Arab v Arab events.

    So your attempt to differentiate Egypt/Syria or wherever makes no sense.

    Back to the other pt, its one hell of a coincidence that there was an article re Russian and US jets being knocked out of the sky just a day or two before.
    And we all know Russia would just up the ante by bombing more ISIS positions.  That is it.  We all know they are not going to all of a sudden send in some sort of contingent to fight them.

    It's laughable how the West remembers the Afghan theatre as Russia's 'quagmire', but not for the U.S. or NATO who are failing miserably in Afghanistan lol! Talk about selective memories lmao! lol1

    As far as winning in Syria, there's more than one way to skin a cat! Instead of Russia sending in ground forces, Russia really only needs to make the lives of Turkey and the GCC vermin miserable. Start jamming communications, ELINT/SIGINT, etc., etc. in Yemen and in southern Turkey, and let it do it's magic! Wink

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  kvs on Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:03 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Firebird wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

    If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

    Turn it down will you...

    "Afghanistan" means "a quagmire" ie  drawing Russia into a long, costly, morale and money sapping campaign. It DOESN'T refer to Afghanistan or any place in particular. Its like calling a military campaign for America a "new Vietnam".

    MOST of the Middle East is infected with ISIS. Much of it has US backed maniacs.
    The loss of 200 innocent Russians is a way of potentially pushing Russia further into a conflict in the M East. More so, that whatever is happening in Arab v Arab events.

    So your attempt to differentiate Egypt/Syria or wherever makes no sense.

    Back to the other pt, its one hell of a coincidence that there was an article re Russian and US jets being knocked out of the sky just a day or two before.
    And we all know Russia would just up the ante by bombing more ISIS positions.  That is it.  We all know they are not going to all of a sudden send in some sort of contingent to fight them.

    It's laughable how the West remembers the Afghan theatre as Russia's 'quagmire', but not for the U.S. or NATO who are failing miserably in Afghanistan lol! Talk about selective memories lmao! lol1

    As far as winning in Syria, there's more than one way to skin a cat! Instead of Russia sending in ground forces, Russia really only needs to make the lives of Turkey and the GCC vermin miserable. Start jamming communications, ELINT/SIGINT, etc., etc. in Yemen and in southern Turkey, and let it do it's magic! Wink

    Let's not forget that it was Gorbachev who basically pulled the plug on the Afghanistan operation and the Najibullah government. By
    now we should know that Gorby was a compardor and it was not obvious that the USSR would have failed to prevail in the long term.
    Much like one could pontificate about Russia's failure in Chechnya in 1996 and ignorantly claim that it would never prevail.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:21 am

    http://ria.ru/incidents/20151102/1312103708.html

    This is correct.  No one should jump to conclusions till the investigation is over.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:04 am

    Yes, the more so when we look at this as being about the 5th time the British have "invaded" Afghanistan... with consistent results...


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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:43 am

    This is just speculation...

    Looking at the videos and photos it seems that part of the aircraft is missing, at least as a clearly recognisable single piece of wreckage, and that is the fuselage from just behind the wings to just forward of the tail. The tail does not have the back blown out or shredded which might be the case in rear bulkhead failure, and the rear door is still in place and only suffers buckling from impact, so a rear door blow out, which has caused some crashes in the past, can be ruled out, and in fact no airliner has crashed due to door blowout since 1974 and that was a fault specific to DC-10 and no other type of aircraft before or since, tho I may be wrong on that. In June 1980 Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870 flying from Bologna to Palermo crashed into the sea just north of Sicily. The exact cause is still disputed and an accidental hit by a missile from a French fighter possibly engaged with Libyan fighters is still seen as the cause by Italian authorities. It seems that all experts outside of Italy see that as total bullshit. The rear lavatory of the aircraft, a DC-9, was found to have damage consistant with an internal explosion, a bomb. Tests were made on a DC-9 lavatory with a small explosive device and exactly the same pattern of damage was seen. Airbus A-321 have a rear toilet, but it is right at the tail and looking at photos it seems, to non expert eyes, that the tail ripped off reasonably cleanly and probably the result of aerodynamic forces more than an explosion. However, A-321 have more than one lavatory and there is a central one that is just rear of where the wings meet the fuselage. No group ever claimed responsibility for the Italian aircraft crash, or Pan Am Flight 103, or the Air India flight blown up over the Atlantic, so claims or lack of claims do not have any great relevance.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:40 am

    On Saturday, Airbus A-321 operated by Russian airline Kogalymavia crashed in the Sinai Peninsula en route from the Egyptian resort city of Sharm El-Sheikh to St. Petersburg. All 224 people on board, including 25 children, were confirmed dead by Russian and Egyptian authorities. The tragedy has already been named the biggest civil aviation disaster in Russian and Soviet history.

    After the tail part of the Airbus A321 plane had sustained damages, the airliner was fully repaired. The technical condition of the plane was normal, Kogalymavia officials said. “Before the A321 began falling, it most likely had received considerable damage to its construction that would not allow it to fly. Obviously, due to this, when the catastrophic situation started to unfold, the crew completely lost control over the plane, which would explain why there were no attempts to communicate and report on the emergency situation on board,” the airlines’ deputy general director of technical and production issues, Andrei Averianov, said at a press conference in Moscow.

    External forces are the only possible reason of the deadly crash, Kogalymavia officials said Monday. Kogalymavia 7K9268 flight likely suffered substantial damages when it started to fall, officials said. Only possible explanation for the crash is "physical or mechanical actions," the officials said.

    The Kogalymavia plane's crew completely lost control over the aircraft as the disaster started to unfold. The Airbus A321 had been in uncontrolled flight as the catastrophe unfolded. However, Kogalymavia excluded human or technical factors as the cause for the deadly crash in Egypt, officials said.

    However, the crashed Russian airliner had passed all necessary tests; and the technical condition of the plane was good, the company's top manager said Monday. The aircraft's engines were inspected in Moscow on October 26; no problems were found. Moreover, there were no problems with the quality of fuel used by the Russian airliner.

    “In regard to fatigued cracks it should be noted that work on its assessment of metal fatigue on airliners is done every five years. We also conducted such work very carefully on this plane and that was in March 2014,” Kogalymavia flight director Alexander Smirnov said during a press conference in Moscow.

    Debris belonging to the A321 Russian airliner are seen at the site of the crash in Wadi el-Zolmat, a mountainous area in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on November 1, 2015. International investigators began probing why a Russian airliner carrying 224 people crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, killing everyone on board, as rescue workers widened their search for missing victims.

    The Russian airline does not exclude a terrorist attack or an explosion as reasons behind the 7K9268 flight's deadly crash.

    Kogalymavia halted flights over the Sinai Peninsula, the company's top manager said. There are no doubts that the investigation into the Russian plane crash is objective, officials said.

    The company added that videos shared online, which allegedly showed the Russian airliner's crash in Egypt, were likely fake.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151102/1029455702/kogalymavia-tail-part-damaged.html#ixzz3qKU9Wc00

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Regular on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:14 pm

    It's starting to sound like a work of terrorists. If this is the case it will only make Russia more determined in their fight against domestic and external terrorism. No, Russia won't attack Egypt or something like that, but I bet Russian agents will be going to business trips into this region.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:41 pm

    ^ I agree.
    Russian media are now saying that preliminary autopsy reports on about one hundred victims show main causes of death to be severe trauma, rupture of internal organs and burning. The first two are what would be expected in any fall from great hight, but the burning is important, and of course horrific. The tail shows no sign of fire damage, and if it had ripped off as a cause of the tragedy, while making the aircraft suddenly fall from the sky would not cause it to burn. The nose of the aircraft shows no fire damage. Therefore the fire was situated somewere between these two extremities. It is not pleasant to even think about, but the only way a cause of death by burning is established is by the state of the lungs and air passages. That a so far unknown number died by burning shows the aircraft was on fire as it fell. The wings, while burned, are otherwise intact so if a fuel tank had exploded, as in the case of a TWA 747 some years back, this would not be that case and obvious severe distruption to the central part of the aircraft and wings would be seen, or not, as they would likely have disintegrated in the explosion, and that part of the aircraft is reasonably intact. Presuming a fuel tank had not exploded, then any other fire caused by accident would be much slower to take effect, not a sudden explosion, and the pilot would have had time to send a message that he had a fire, but nothing, they just drop out of the sky without warning. So, if there was no fuel tank explosion and presumably no "normal" fire, what other event can cause the aircraft to suddenly, in moments, fall from the sky and burn on the way down. I still don't say it definately was a bomb, but the evidence to even a non expert starts to very strongly suggest so.

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Neutrality on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:15 pm

    Let's look at the facts here.

    -No SOS signal was sent out from the airliner
    -Pilots maybe reported some problems with the plane but nothing serious
    -Egyptian technicians swear that the plane underwent a 35 minute pre-check

    Then this ends with: a sudden mid-air breach and collapse of the hull?

    This smell like an inside explosion i.e. terrorist act.


    Last edited by Neutrality on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:24 pm

    No shortage of accident investigators descending on the site. No slow work or secrets here then, unlike some other crash we know of..

    MOSCOW (Sputnik), Anastasia Levchenko – On Sunday, an Irish Aviation Authority representative told RIA Novosti that the Russian aircraft was registered in an Ireland-based office of US subsidiary company Wilmington Trust SP Services.

    "The Air Accident Investigation Unit (AAIU) of Ireland is sending two investigators to assist with the investigation. They will also be accompanied by an official from the Irish Aviation Authority. So there will be three individuals traveling," Leo Murray stated. The Kogalymavia (Metrojet) operator leased the aircraft from Wilmington Trust SP Services, which registered the Airbus A321 in 2012.

    French and German civil aviation teams, alongside an Airbus investigation team, are also expected to assist Russia’s Interstate Aviation Committee in the inquiry.

    All 217 passengers and seven crew members aboard flight 9268, en route from the resort city of Sharm El-Sheikh to St. Petersburg, have been confirmed dead. The tragedy is the biggest civil aviation disaster in Russian and Soviet history.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151102/1029467371/a321-aaiu-investigation-aid.html#ixzz3qKuDQGFl

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:34 pm

    No traces of explosive substances have so far been discovered on the debris of Kogalymavia's A321 plane that crashed in Sinai on Saturday, a source familiar with the investigation said Monday.

    CAIRO (Sputnik) — The source told RIA Novosti:

    "No traces of explosive substances have been discovered thus far on the analyzed parts of the plane."


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151102/1029477178/a321-no-explosives-traces.html#ixzz3qLgRM1bP

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  Militarov on Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:07 pm

    More photos from the crash site:

















































    Source for all photos: https://twitter.com/Kosarev_RT

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    Re: Accidents and Disasters Thread

    Post  zg18 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:07 pm

    My condolences to all victims families. RIP

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