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    MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

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    GarryB

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    MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:47 am

    You could make a list of such BS arguments that refuse to die. #1, this one. #2, stealth makes you totally invisible. #3, SR-71s stopped flying in certain areas when MiG-31s were operational. The list goes on.

    I would add that in my experience some actually believe the SR-71 regularly flew over Soviet Airspace with impunity... ie did what U-2s used to do.


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    SOC

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  SOC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:07 am

    GarryB wrote:
    You could make a list of such BS arguments that refuse to die. #1, this one. #2, stealth makes you totally invisible. #3, SR-71s stopped flying in certain areas when MiG-31s were operational. The list goes on.

    I would add that in my experience some actually believe the SR-71 regularly flew over Soviet Airspace with impunity... ie did what U-2s used to do.

    The best part is that even the pilots will tell you that it's complete BS! People just aren't willing to comprehend the idea of PARPRO...

    Mindstorm

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:44 am

    I would add that in my experience some actually believe the SR-71 regularly flew over Soviet Airspace with impunity... ie did what U-2s used to do.


    SR-71 never conducted direct overflights of URSS air space (while, instead, completing several times similar missions over Warsaw Pact's allied nations); that, obviously, don't mean that several attempts was not done ,in particular "staright loop" mission profiles coming from Norway.....with relative interceptions of the possible intruders by part of PVO's MiG-31s .


    In those sample pages (pag 280 and 282-284) from the book "Loocheed Blackbird : Beyond the secret missions" by Paul F Crickmore (a book ,the second edition of which, i suggest to anyone) is present ,with plentiful of details also technicals, an accurate description of SR-71's intercepts by part of PVO 1st Class Pilot Mikhail Myagkiy who had personally completed 14 intercepts of SR-71 with its MiG-31.



    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=xwPFC3GtcL8C&pg=PA280&lpg=PA280&dq=why+mig-31+did+not+shoot+down+sr-71&source=web&ots=ghLzsSGBik&sig=WEpZhe3IUN_oC4#v=onepage&q=why%20mig-31%20did%20not%20shoot%20down%20sr-71&f=true


    Good reading.


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    SOC

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  SOC on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:25 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    I would add that in my experience some actually believe the SR-71 regularly flew over Soviet Airspace with impunity... ie did what U-2s used to do.


    SR-71 never conducted direct overflights of URSS air space (while, instead, completing several times similar missions over Warsaw Pact's allied nations); that, obviously, don't mean that several attempts was not done ,in particular "staright loop" mission profiles coming from Norway.....with relative interceptions of the possible intruders by part of PVO's MiG-31s .


    In those sample pages (pag 280 and 282-284) from the book "Loocheed Blackbird : Beyond the secret missions" by Paul F Crickmore (a book ,the second edition of which, i suggest to anyone) is present ,with plentiful of details also technicals, an accurate description of SR-71's intercepts by part of PVO 1st Class Pilot Mikhail Myagkiy who had personally completed 14 intercepts of SR-71 with its MiG-31.



    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=xwPFC3GtcL8C&pg=PA280&lpg=PA280&dq=why+mig-31+did+not+shoot+down+sr-71&source=web&ots=ghLzsSGBik&sig=WEpZhe3IUN_oC4#v=onepage&q=why%20mig-31%20did%20not%20shoot%20down%20sr-71&f=true


    Good reading.



    That is a very good book. If you get the latest revision, it includes copies of Myagkiy's logbook entries in one of the appendicies.

    Mindstorm

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:02 pm


    That is a very good book. If you get the latest revision, it includes copies of Myagkiy's logbook entries in one of the appendicies.


    I agree completely SOC Smile

    I have second edition of that book, but it is possible i will try to order latest version.

    Best regards.
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    Sujoy

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:24 pm

    EXCERPTS FROM THE MAGAZINE COMBAT AIRCRAFTS - OCT 2010

    In September 1983, a Korean Air Lines Boeing 747 was shot down by a Sukhoi-15 after the airliner intruded deep into Soviet air space. What remained unknown to the world was the night of the incident had been a particularly tense time for Soviet air defence forces, as the SR-71 was conducting a spy flight in coordination with other American aircraft and a Big Bird spy satellite.

    Following the event, a special-purpose group comprising four MiG-31s under the command of Vladimir Ivlev, was despatched to Sokol Air Base in Sakhalin later that month.

    The group's main task was to combat incursions by the SR-71. With Moscow's authorisation the four crews set up demonstrations sorties with the new aircraft, using their radar to prevent the Blackbird from flying along the Soviet border.

    The crew would fly out on an intercept course to close with the target, and then switch the radar to radiation mode and report to their ground controllers when they had detected the target at around 300-320 km. They would then continue to close with the target, and at 120-150 km target lock-on would be achieved, whereupon the crew would report readiness to attack.

    At this point the SR-71's missile approach warning system would trigger; the crew would find themselves the hunted, and unable to hold their nerve, there was no course of action for them other than to engage afterburner and run for home.
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    SOC

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    SR-71 never conducted direct overflights of URSS

    Post  SOC on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:15 pm

    "What remained unknown to the world was the night of the incident had been a particularly tense time for Soviet air defence forces, as the SR-71 was conducting a spy flight in coordination with other American aircraft and a Big Bird spy satellite."

    Spysat overflight times were always known and predictable. Blackbird flights near the area were relatively common in the 80s as well.
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    gaurav

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  gaurav on Tue May 16, 2017 3:11 am

    SR-71 was same as FAKE MOON MISSIONS.
    Till today the NASA Fake moon missions transported 100 Million Americans into Jupiter moons.
    As far as I am concerned SR-71 was also similar to FAKE Moon missions.
    U.S can launch 60 tomahawks with speed of 800 Km/HR..but it cannot launch a single supersonic cruise missile till today.

    Most of the americans involved in Fake moon missions were liars and hence most of the Americans involved inSR-71 were also liars.
    They can as well make SR-71 20 MACHS and still everyone would believe them
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    kvs

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  kvs on Tue May 16, 2017 3:41 am

    gaurav wrote:SR-71 was same as FAKE MOON MISSIONS.
    Till today the NASA Fake moon missions transported 100 Million Americans into Jupiter moons.
    As far as I am concerned SR-71 was also similar to FAKE Moon missions.
    U.S can launch 60 tomahawks with speed of 800 Km/HR..but it cannot launch a single supersonic cruise missile till today.

    Most of the americans involved in Fake moon missions were liars and hence most of the Americans involved inSR-71 were also liars.
    They can as well make SR-71 20 MACHS and still everyone would believe them


    Yeah, if it was so great, then why did they cancel this gem. The cost excuse is BS. America prints money like Pancho Villa
    and gets away with it because there are millions of suckers around the world that create demand for those dollars.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird

    The above is full of stories about its speed records and awards. Was this an actual military aircraft or a propaganda gimmick?
    Some derivative of the SR-71 could be America's Mig-31 analogue.

    I guess the excuse for subsonic Tomahawks is that shooting them at banana republics is not really such challenge.

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    gaurav

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  gaurav on Tue May 16, 2017 5:05 am

    See ,
    Lot of knowledgeable people say that SR-71 was a Fake aircraft.

    Here in Russdefence also lot of members believe that SR-71 was full blooded scam.

    SR-71 originated in the age of intense Soviet -U.S rivalry this fact is enough to prove that
    SR-71 was a sham nothing else.

    Yu see the CNN, msnbc today they are all cia enabled media.

    People have been watching lot of msnbc , Fox and hence
    started comparing there (mach number)benchmarks with  SR-71 which was a media hype invented for the satisfaction of American people
    and nothing else.

    America prints dollars like a tree leaves on a  banana tree so no question SR-71 was de commissioned due to funding.

    And American families love (just love) their salaries in dollars. big big dollars ..
    Every single American involved
    in SR-71 would be a life long liar.When  a system is designed for diversion/subversion then every human being
    inside the system believes all lies as truths and nothing else.

    For i.e Trump vs the American media(deep state) which is out to sabotage nationalist leader just because he wants to build an independent America.
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    kvs

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    Mig-31 vs. Lockheed SR-71

    Post  kvs on Wed May 17, 2017 12:13 am

    Continuation of OT from the Kuznetsov thread.

    The SR-17 is not fake, but are its specifications and claimed speed records fake. According to the ultimate source of truth,
    Wikipedia:

    On 28 July 1976, SR-71 serial number 61-7962, piloted by then Captain Robert Helt, broke the world record: an "absolute altitude record" of 85,069 feet (25,929 m)

    This sounds credible but stinks. The reason it stinks is because the absolute flight ceiling for aircraft is imposed by boundary layer dynamics of the
    wings and not any other specification. One of the effects of high altitude is the drop in pressure and density, which result in the thickening of the
    boundary layer around an airfoil and its separation

    When the boundary layer separates, its displacement thickness increases sharply, which modifies the outside potential flow and pressure field. In the case of airfoils, the pressure field modification results in an increase in pressure drag, and if severe enough will also result in loss of lift and stall, all of which are undesirable.

    The thicker boundary layer already distorts the potential flow at high altitude even before boundary layer separation and acts to increase effective
    drag vs. lift.

    So the U-2 and M-55 have wings designed to minimize this effect. The SR-71 is quite different and looks like a lifting body approach based on a delta wing. But the scale
    of the lifting body is not consistent with suppression of boundary layer separation. Delta wings are subject to catastrophic boundary layer separation:

    http://repository.tudelft.nl/islandora/object/uuid:8243c010-d7c5-47b1-bb47-bf16a7e8fe49/datastream/OBJ/download

    The above is for a 50 degree delta wing, but even 60+ degree wings stall at angle of attack of 20 degrees. And those jet engines on the SR-71 are not
    helping to reduce drag over its delta wing. The effect of boundary layer separation is like increasing the angle of attack.




    It is not obvious that the SR-71 design allows it to exceed the U-2 and M-55 flight ceiling around 22 km. So the claim about a 26 km altitude flight
    is dubious.
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    Militarov

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    SR-71 Hypersonic

    Post  Militarov on Wed May 17, 2017 12:34 am

    gaurav wrote:SR-71 was same as FAKE MOON MISSIONS.
    Till today the NASA Fake moon missions transported 100 Million Americans into Jupiter moons.
    As far as I am concerned SR-71 was also similar to FAKE Moon missions.
    U.S can launch 60 tomahawks with speed of 800 Km/HR..but it cannot launch a single supersonic cruise missile till today.

    Most of the americans involved in Fake moon missions were liars and hence most of the Americans involved inSR-71 were also liars.
    They can as well make SR-71 20 MACHS and still everyone would believe them

    Okay.. Suspect

    There was nothing fake about SR-71 really. I guess you also think how Hitler is still alive in his bunker in Patagonia and that Elvis works in a pub just outside Las Vegas?

    US launched and used more than one supersonic missile though decades, so did other major world powers.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-31 vs Lockheed SR-71

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 17, 2017 11:49 am

    Except that height record is a class height record... the MiG-25 has been to over 100,000 ft.

    The Blackbird is not actually that good at flying at high altitude as its long body shape makes it very inefficient... it is a very low drag design to fly very very fast. It is not good for flying high.


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