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    Refuelling Tankers for RuAF

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:20 pm

    The Ministry of Defense can buy a minimum of 14 Il-78M-90A tankers by 2027

    More on TASS:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5419818
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    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:38 pm

    Isn´t there already a contract for 39 or 40 planes?
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:39 pm

    Hole wrote:Isn´t there already a contract for 39 or 40 planes?

    It had it's maiden flight this year, it is a little early for full production contracts.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:33 pm

    Hole wrote:Isn´t there already a contract for 39 or 40 planes?
    The order for 39 planes was for the cargo version.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:23 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    Hole wrote:Isn´t there already a contract for 39 or 40 planes?
    The order for 39 planes was for the cargo version.

    +1
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    Post  franco on Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:52 am

    I believe the first 3 aircraft of that total were for testing. One for the 76-90, one for the 78-90 and one for the A-100. It has since been reduced from 39 due to escalating costs per unit.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:15 am

    This plane could also become a tanker/transport:
    Refuelling Tankers for RuAF - Page 4 Scale_600
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/pilot1944awn/malenkaia-revoliuciia-v-rossiiskom-aviaprome-lainer-fregat-ekodjet-5b7aa27441e72700aaaf1ffc?&from=feed
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    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:47 pm

    Il-78M-90A aerial refueling tanker has launched flight tests

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    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:30 am

    IL-78M-90A has a number of unique features. If necessary, the Il-78M-90A tanker can be used as a cargo plane - the fuel tanks located in the cargo compartment can be dismantled and the tanker becomes a military transport plane.

    Re-equipment will not require a large amount of work and is carried out in a home-based aerodrome. If necessary, fire fighting equipment can be installed on the aircraft.

    On the plane installed new engines PS-90A-76. “They give the aircraft completely different characteristics: by the range and duration of the flight, by the amount of fuel delivered, as well as by the reduced run-up of the aircraft,” said the chief designer of the Il-76 / Il-78 Andrei Yurasov.

    Another important advantage is the new wing, which is lighter, takes more fuel, is more technological and is designed for an increased take-off weight of the aircraft.

    On-Il-78M-90A almost completely replaced on-board equipment. The heart of the machine - the latest flight-navigation complex. It allows you to fly around the world, to fulfill its mission as a tanker and transport aircraft capable of flying on international routes according to civilian requirements. “The design of the aircraft itself is very perfect, over which time has no power,” the chief designer emphasized.

    Yurasov noted that the closure of the R & D stage has significantly reduced the amount of overdue debt to the Russian Defense Ministry.

    In the future, the IL-78M-90A will become the main tanker of the Long-Range Aviation of Russia.


    On the bmpd side, we recall that the first prototype of the Il-78M-90A tanker aircraft (Serial Number 0201, registration number RF-78741) developed by Il PJSC based on the Il-76MD-90A military transport aircraft was transferred to the AO Aviastar-SP in Ulyanovsk on November 29, 2017, and made the first flight on January 19, 2018, and on January 25, 2018 performed three test flights (the flight on January 25 was officially declared the first). After that, the plane did not fly into the air for 11 months, being on the modifications and ground testing of systems, and only on December 27, 2018 made a fourth test flight, officially credited as the first under the program of factory flight tests.

    The construction and testing of the first prototype model of the Il-78M-90A aircraft is carried out under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense to conduct development work on the creation of a promising tanker aircraft based on the Il-76MD-90A military transport aircraft as part of the development heavy military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A and advanced tanker aircraft at its base.

    According to the terms of the contract, flight tests of the first sample IL-78M-90A were to be started in 2016.

    To date, the Aviastar-SP plant has also built seven copies (including a prototype) of the Il-76MD-90A military transport aircraft (including two in 2018).



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3475874.html
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    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:39 pm

    Article on tankers situation and needs for VKS

    https://russiandefpolicy.blog/2018/12/30/tanker-shortage/
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:11 pm

    Ignores two critical factors.... first is while the number of aircraft with inflight refuelling probes has dramatically increased, their missions have not changed that much so they already have pretty good flight range performance... IFR probes just mean less dependence on external fuel tanks.

    Inflight refuelling aircraft could also be buddy refuelling aircraft too.

    And second... the Russian AF does not operate world wide and so the need for a world wide network of inflight refuelling aircraft simply does not exist for them at the moment.

    I would say production of maybe 30-40 Il-96 based inflight refuelling tankers would be an enormous boost for the Strategic and long range aviation... which could be made even more valuable if large transport aircraft also got inflight refuelling probes to extend their flight range and operational performance.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:33 am

    .. the Russian AF does not operate world wide and so the need for a world wide network of inflight refuelling aircraft simply does not exist for them at the moment.
    That may change in the next 10-15 years.
    Even within Russia, w/o those tankers more fighters will have to be produced (+airbases to refuel them) & maintained, not to mention pilots, to be kept at various remote locations, separated by several time zones, in case they r needed there on short notice. Their Su-34s & MiG-31s practiced for those contingencies already.
    Also, not having to stop for refueling in bad weather will avoid dangerous conditions often present in Siberia & the Far North & East.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:44 am

    That may change in the next 10-15 years.

    I would say the actions of the US and EU are going to force that change.

    Even within Russia, w/o those tankers more fighters will have to be produced (+airbases to refuel them) & maintained, not to mention pilots, to be kept at various remote locations, separated by several time zones, in case they r needed there on short notice.

    That is the problem there... Russia does not need tankers to increase aircraft range coverage... it is more about extending their endurance on station.

    During an exercise they might transfer from one side of the country to the other to perform their mission and then fly back but that is only an addition to the mission parameters to include a practical reason for an IFR.

    Every region of Russia has their own fighter resources and in general they wont actually share.

    If their is a serious issue... and time, they might transfer forces to a particular area for some reason, but once transferred they wont continue to operate from where they were transferred from.

    In other words they might send a squadron of MiG-31s from one side of Russia to the other... 4,000-5,000km, which might take 2-3 inflight refuellings on the way, but that squad will stay there until the job is done before it flys all the way back.

    Their Su-34s & MiG-31s practiced for those contingencies already.

    They are internal transfers and would not normally involve an enormous number of aircraft at a time.

    Also, not having to stop for refueling in bad weather will avoid dangerous conditions often present in Siberia & the Far North & East.

    Yet at the same time having airfields across Siberia and the far north and the far east will help open those areas up...
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    Post  Hole on Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:27 pm

    Shortterm solution: keep 100 Su-24M´s as tactical tankers.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I would say production of maybe 30-40 Il-96 based inflight refuelling tankers would be an enormous boost for the Strategic and long range aviation... which could be made even more valuable if large transport aircraft also got inflight refuelling probes to extend their flight range and operational performance.

    I agree, now that they are modernising the Il-96 and want to increase a bit the production rate (from 1 or 1.5 every year that it is at the moment), they could dedicate a few of the airframes to the role of tanker or tanker/transport. Probably it would be easier to be justified after they have the PD-35 engine to produce them as twin jets...
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:01 am

    Indeed, if they had good engines to make them a twin jet they would be ideal... as far as aerodynamics there is only so much you can do, but a good engine is what makes a plane world class... or merely good enough...

    Very simply the Blackjack is still an impressive aircraft, but if they could increase the power of its engines to let it have 25 tons thrust in dry power they could have a supercruising very long range bomber that would be a generation better...

    Personally I think inflight refuelling for tactical aircraft is questionable as it means putting unprotected tanker aircraft near the front line where they would be very vulnerable.

    Using older strike aircraft like the Su-24... perhaps with as much external fuel tanks as it can carry as an inflight refuelling aircraft with its wing pylons fitted for R-77 or R-73 so it has some self defence capacity is actually a better idea than having lots of full sized tankers.

    A twin engined Il-96 would be excellent for strategic bomber refuelling because of their higher cruise speed and larger capacity, and they would also be good for long range transport aircraft refuelling too... which would free up Il-78s for other tasks...
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    Post  Hole on Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:40 pm

    Another solution would be a tanker version of the Il-276. Could easily be deployed to all "frontline" airfields.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:26 pm

    Hole wrote:Another solution would be a tanker version of the Il-276. Could easily be deployed to all "frontline" airfields.

    I believe all these solutions are not mutually exclusive.

    The Embraer KC-390 (similar engine thrust and payload as the Il-276) will be offered also as tanker version.

    And the Il-96 tanker can be the equivalent of the Boeing KC-767 or of the Airbus A330 MRTT.

    From what I understood, the cost and time needed of converting 2 existing Il-96 400T airframes was deemed too high compared with the remaining life of the aircrafts (I do not know if this was correct or not). For newly built Il-96 400M it will be different and probably easier to build some of them in tanker/transport version from the start.

    What would be missing would be only a smaller carrier capable tanker, maybe a derivative of the Yak-44 AEW (too bad that the engines were made in Zaporozhe).
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    Post  Hole on Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:25 pm

    Possible tanker mix (some years down the road):

    15 - 20 Il-78M
    40 - 50 Il-78M-90A
    20 - 25 Il-96-400M
    40 - 50 Tu-214
    40 - 50 Il-276

    The Il-96-400M for strategic aircraft, Tu-214 for strategic/tactical/naval aircraft, both can only be used from "good" airfields/airports.
    The Il-78M/M-90A and Il-276 mostly for tactical aircraft, with the capabiliy to be used even from dirtstrips.

    Just my opinion.


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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:45 pm

    Agreed, but I also like your idea of Su-24s acting as tankers too... and it got me thinking... perhaps self defence AAMs for the lighter transports?

    Pretty soon they are supposed to introduce the Morfei AAM with IIR seeker that is lock on after launch so it can be carried in internal weapons bays on stealth fighters and can be launched without needing to have a lock on the target... presumably it would be directed by autopilot in a flight direction where it would look for and lock on to its target after launch... a dozen of these hanging from the wings of IFR aircraft of all types would be a useful self defence capacity to defend from SAMs and AAMs... it could be built in to the self defence avionics suite with no need for human intervention...
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    Post  Hole on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:24 am

    The Il-276 would be the mid-term replacement for the Su-24M.

    All this planes should be convertible - transporter/tanker. Except the old Il-78M. It was always my suggestion to equip new "cargo" planes with pylons for recon and ECM pods and also weapons.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:44 am

    Hole wrote:The Il-276 would be the mid-term replacement for the Su-24M.

    All this planes should be convertible - transporter/tanker. Except the old Il-78M. It was always my suggestion to equip new "cargo" planes with pylons for recon and ECM pods and also weapons.

    That seems to be the case. Such an upgrade could be easy even in older planes. They only need a removable system of adaptable size tankers + the refueling control system with external camera + the cable and adapt this to a standard that could fit in any cargo plane. Then they only need holes in the planes where the cables can go through which is easy to make.


    Even israeli manae to transform civilian planes into EW or tanker plane. Russia should be able to do it easily.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:16 pm

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    Post  Hole on Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:55 pm

    That plane got a better defensive suite as the Tu-22M3M.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:01 pm

    Prototype tanker Il-78M-90A on flight tests in Ulyanovsk. The newest air tanker is based on the Il-76MD-90A. The machine can be converted from a tanker to a military transport or fire fighting aircraft.

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    https://twitter.com/PAO_Ilyushin/status/1092683249120407553

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