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    Refuelling Tankers for RuAF

    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL on Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:06 pm

    George1 wrote:Prototype tanker Il-78M-90A on flight tests in Ulyanovsk. The newest air tanker is based on the Il-76MD-90A. The machine can be converted from a tanker to a military transport or fire fighting aircraft.

    This airplane is basically a military transport with with internal installation for aerial refueling and removable deposits to leave free the cargo hold , is a double purpose aircraft, as the case of Hércules  or A-400M

    Probably will be deployed in the regiments of VTA (Military Transport Aviation) as complement for the Il-76MD-90A and Il-76MD-M


    For the moment there are contracts for:
    39 Il-76MD-90A (36 for 2 regiments/4 squadrons + 3 for 610 TsBPiPLS)
    41 Il-76MD-M (36 for 2 regiments/4 squadrons + 4 for 610 TSBPiPLS. the other is used for test for the moment)

    Now, there are 5 VTA regiments of IL-76 so is necesary other regiment/2 squadrons , that could be of Il-78M-90A
    If in the future is opened a 6th VTA regiment probably will increase the ammount of Il-78M-90A to 36


    The tanker regiment of Ryazan have 12 Il-78M and 6 Il-78 that are single use tankers, but is planned modernize to standard Il-78M2 , so will be in service for other 15 years or more , probably for the use with Strategic Bombers
    The replacement could be later with a MRTT type

    Hole wrote:Possible tanker mix (some years down the road):
    15 - 20 Il-78M
    40 - 50 Il-78M-90A
    20 - 25 Il-96-400M
    40 - 50 Tu-214
    40 - 50 Il-276

    The Il-96-400M for strategic aircraft, Tu-214 for strategic/tactical/naval aircraft, both can only be used from "good" airfields/airports.
    The Il-78M/M-90A and Il-276 mostly for tactical aircraft, with the capabiliy to be used even from dirtstrips.

    Just my opinion.

    in what parallel universe would that happen?

    This is not realistic.

    The 18 Il-78/Il-78M will be upgtraded to Il-78M2 , later could be replaced for Il-96-400TZ or a versión of Tu-214
    Tjis airplanes are parte of Long Range Aviation, for service the strategic bombers
    The Il-78;-90A will be for tactical use and probably one squadron each Air Army


    In total 60 tankers:

    20 Il-78M2 replaced for 20 Il-96-400TZ (18 for one regiment + 2 for instruction)
    40 Il-78M-90A (36 for 2 regiments + 4 for instruction)



    If you compare that with 24 tankers of RAF or less of France and Germany of very reasonable
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:19 am

    This airplane is basically a military transport with with internal installation for aerial refueling and removable deposits to leave free the cargo hold , is a double purpose aircraft, as the case of Hércules or A-400M

    Previous models could also be converted between roles too... cargo, troop transport, water bombing, refuelling...


    If you compare that with 24 tankers of RAF or less of France and Germany of very reasonable

    Western nations need them a hell of a lot more than the Russians need them... Russian planes generally have good range anyway, and they don't "visit" countries nearly so often...

    Not every fighter needs tanker support.
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    Post  Hole on Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:53 am

    Russia is a very large country. And the RuAF has 700+ IFR-capable planes.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:15 pm

    It is a very large country, but except for the odd exercise most of its aircraft remain in one area and have enough range to cover that area... in fact 90% of the time most of their flankers operate at half fuel or less.

    They have buddy refuelling options too.

    The vast majority of NATO usage of inflight refuelling is for invasions of other countries to allow extended flight ranges with a weapons payload..

    Russian aircraft mostly fly missions of defence and already have enough range for most missions anyway.

    Most Flankers can't even use external fuel tanks...

    I am not saying they are not useful, I am saying they are not critical...
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    Post  Hole on Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:02 pm

    Buddy refuelling is nice, but only it they use "old" Su-24M´s for this. Waste new Su-30SM´s to refuel Su-34´s in the air is Mad

    I´m totaly for multi-purpose transporters/tankers, like the Il-78M-90A. The Il-276 should be build this way from the start. If not needed as a freighter or tanker it could be used for VIP transport or MEDEVAC or even training of pilots and navigators. In the end the RuAF would need less planes.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:32 pm

    Hole wrote:Russia is a very large country. And the RuAF has 700+ IFR-capable planes.

    They will keep a large amount of tanker in the middle of nowhere in case they need to use tu-160.

    Tankers are easy and big targets. Just like AWACS.

    A missile that releases hundreds or thousands of submunitions above the airbase where they are located will destroy any big aircraft full of fuel like that. And they are not easy to hide from image satelittes. Pretty easy targets if you ask me.

    Having fighters like sukhoi that don't need refueling for most of their missions is better. Exept USA, no other nation can afford the real amount of tanker they really need.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:09 am

    The big missiles like R-37M and Meteor are optimised for use against AWACS and inflight refuelling planes and Jstars and transports because they are easy to detect from long range too.

    Using Su-24Ms as buddy inflight refuelling aircraft is interesting because they can carry rather large external fuel tanks so they could carry a lot of fuel and not drop the tanks so remain reusable with a lot of fuel to off load and they would not be slow and an easy target... you could arm them with R-73s if you wanted...

    Would be very interesting... I do like that idea for using old airframes for inflight refuelling... they would not need expensive new upgrades, they would be useful for fuel and could be armed with cheap simple self defence AAMs to defend themselves and could contribute in any sort of conflict... from serious where they are tankers with self defence through to low intensity COIN where they are high altitude cheap bombers... they can do the job as well as any super high tech modern aircraft... until their airframes and engines run out of hours.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:17 am

    Su-24 is meant to be replace by su-34 which shares same basis as other flankers so easier maintenance.

    They could just build empty su-34 for refueling. The price would drop to the price of modernizing su-24 and they will have only 1 type of aircraft for bombing/refueling.
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    Post  Hole on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:54 am

    The point is when you have 30 Su-34 in a theater, why relegate 10 of them to refuel the others? A dozen Il-276 tanker/transporters (or old S-24M´s) would be a better solution.

    And if Trumpistan could afford the tankers it needs, why does it make 1 - 2 Trill. in fresh debt every year?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:54 pm

    Hole wrote:The point is when you have 30 Su-34 in a theater, why relegate 10 of them to refuel the others? A dozen Il-276 tanker/transporters (or old S-24M´s) would be a better solution.

    And if Trumpistan could afford the tankers it needs, why does it make 1 - 2 Trill. in fresh debt every year?

    Not relegate 10 of them but buy 10 new empty ones for refueling the 30 others. Empty one seat su-34 without weapons/radars... should cost less than new il-276. On the long term it's cheaper to operate than old su-24.

    I was just giving another version for Garry's idea.

    But I would rather go with a small/medium cargo with refueling capabities. Dual role. Cargo are needed so they will invest in them in the next decade so giving them refuel capabiloties will increase number of RuAF refueling planes by at least 2 or 3.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:38 am


    Il-96-400T cargo plane earmarked for conversion to an aerial refuelling tanker

    Refuelling Tankers for RuAF - Page 5 BL0Z8n5ITWT29Pc91zJ6gRb_72ZXJ2jf83ZiCNrNUpQ
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:38 am

    Well, yes, a really big inflight refuelling transport plane can carry enough fuel for an entire flight of aircraft and would probably end up being cheaper.

    I think the multi purpose idea is best... build modules for each transport plane from the Il-114 and Il-112 up to the An-124 and everything in between and fit them out with a roll on system that can be used for a variety of roles.

    One system could be a conveyer system for bombs that rolls different size and weight bombs out the rear door in flight to create a makeshift bomber from the transport type. You could also have an onboard system with bladders to contain fuel or water to be used as an inflight refuelling aircraft or water bomber... depending on the material loaded.

    It means any excess transports you can have can perform fire fighting roles during the summer, or inflight refuelling duty when needed, as well as transport missions around the place... it means you can buy extra transports which are always useful.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:10 pm

    As I said before, I would like to see three new type of tankers: based on the Il-96, based on the Tu-204/214, and finally one based on a carrier capable aircraft, ideally one based on the Yak-44
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well, yes, a really big inflight refuelling transport plane can carry enough fuel for an entire flight of aircraft and would probably end up being cheaper...


    Chasing multirole stuff is how the ended up with shortage of tanker planes

    Use Il-76 for those units that have need for landing tankers on unprepared runways, leave all others for transport units

    Use Il-96 tankers for everything else, cheaper and faster (probably hauls more fuel as well)
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:24 am

    Make all new Il-476 transports able to carry fuel when needed, but the Il-78s currently used for strategic aviation should be replaced by Il-96 inflight refuelling/cargo aircraft because they carry more onboard fuel so fewer will be needed to refuel more strategic aircraft and they are faster and can operate higher altitudes and loiter more efficiently... especially with a new twin engine upgrade.

    The Il-78s and transports can be used for tactical aircraft when needed... and could be equipped with 9M100 short range IIR missiles for self defence against long range AAM attack.

    Most Russian tactical aircraft already have plenty of range for most missions so the demand wont be enormous... long range stand off weapons will also make things easier too and a good investment in INF banned hypersonic intermediate range ballistic and semi ballistic and cruise missile weapons...
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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:27 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Il-96-400T cargo plane earmarked for conversion to an aerial refuelling tanker

    If it's not a secret Smile What's your source for this?
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:05 pm

    The first modernized Il-78M2 tanker

    According to spotters, on August 23, 2019, Zhukovsky rolled out and started taxiing tests of the first Il-78M refueling aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces, upgraded to the level of Il-78M2 - aircraft with tail number "34 blue" (registration number RF-94272, factory 1013404138, serial number 79-05). Modernization work was carried out at the production site of PJSC Aviation Complex named after S.V. Ilyushin "(PJSC" Il ") in Zhukovsky.

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    The first modernized Il-78M2 refueling aircraft (tail number "34 blue", registration number RF-94272, serial number 1013404138, serial number 79-05) of the Russian Aerospace Forces. Zhukovsky, 08/23/2019 (c) Kirill Gnusarev / russianplanes.net (link)


    Recall that, as previously reported by PJSC Il, the project to upgrade Il-78 and Il-78M tankers to the level of Il-78M2 (originally designated as Il-78-2) was developed by PJSC Il according to the tactical and technical assignment, which in 2011 was approved by the Russian Air Force in order to modernize the fleet of Il-78 and Il-78M tanker aircraft, as well as Il-76MD military transport aircraft. The specialists of PJSC EMZ named after V.M. Myasishchev. "

    Modernization concerns flight and navigation, radio communications, lighting and domestic equipment, and defense equipment. Outdated (discontinued) equipment will be replaced with modern equipment; the designated aircraft life will be extended to 40 years. During modernization, parts are used interchangeably with the promising military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90A and refueling aircraft Il-78M-90A.

    On May 11, 2016, the first Il-78 (Il-78M) aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces arrived at the production site of PJSC Il in Zhukovsky for modernization, while the contractor stated that it was planned that the aircraft was re-equipped and prepared for the start of ground and flight tests were supposed to be completed in the I quarter of 2017. In fact, the modernization of the first side “34 blue” (registration number RF-94272, serial number 1013404138, serial number 79-05) was launched only in 2017 and completed only now.

    According to known information, now the Russian Aerospace Forces have 19 combatant aircraft Il-78 and Il-78M.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3748865.html
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    Post  George1 on Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:07 pm

    State trials of Il-78MD-90A air tanker to be over in 2021 — source

    At present, the aircraft has performed about a dozen out of 73 scheduled test flights


    https://tass.com/defense/1077013

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