Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    United States Missile Defense

    Share
    avatar
    nightcrawler

    Posts : 534
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 28
    Location : Pakistan

    United States Missile Defense

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:49 am

    @GarryB
    Actually I believe there is currently a moratorium on putting weapons in space.

    Equally even if their wasn't the Earth is round. US air and space defences are oriented to its north, but Russian missiles could operate in the FOBS mode or fractional orbital bombardment system mode where instead of firing missiles over the north pole to attack targets in the US directly that one is fired in the opposite direction over the south pole into partial earth orbit... when it is directly over the US it can be deorbited into the upper atmosphere and detonated to generate an enormous electro magnetic pulse.
    Lots of hardened electronics will survive, but most high tech modern stuff is very vulnerable... the more high tech the more vulnerable it is... it is one of those cases where 95nm chips are better than 45nm chips.
    Another effect is that the air over the US will be ionised so radar will be useless for about 30 minutes, which is going to make tracking incoming threats impossible.

    The U.S. Defense Support Program early warning satellites, first launched in 1970, enabled the US to detect a FOBS launch.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOBS

    So US is able to detect incoming threat afterall!!

    an ICBM has 3 phases

    1. Boosting
    2. Mid
    3. Terminal

    Now tell me if an ICBM is launched how can US predict the trajectory of incoming ICBM ??
    My understanding is (you can prove me wrong Very Happy ) that once the ICBM is in terminal phase i.e its warheads reenter the atmosphere at a speed <<10Mach no one can predict its trajectory owing to the presence of maneuverable reentry vehicle.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuverable_reentry_vehicle

    & also one can't predict while its in boosting phase; I think while in mid-phase being in orbit makes its movement somewht known however do the US have means to pinpoint this threat even in orbital coarse!!
    Early warning Satellites as the name implies only can warn you but can't giv adequate info to intercept the coming threats (warheads). I think EWS depends on IR detection which by no means are capable to giv exact coordinates they can only ascetain whether the threat  is close or far nothing else!! because unlike radars these detectors only can receive the heat signature; oneway communication not two way like in radar... dunno  dunno

    What you think??
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16891
    Points : 17499
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:22 am

    So US is able to detect incoming threat afterall!!

    A single launch of one rocket from Baikonur that heads south over the south pole and comes up over the continent of north america... what is the US going to do about it?

    Shoot it down with the ABM system in Alaska?

    They wont know it is a FOBs till it detonates and it doesn't have to detonate the first time around... or the 5th.

    Just put the warhead in a stable orbit and every 90 minutes you can send a signal and it will fire a retro rocket and deorbit over the US to an optimum height to create an EMP pulse that covers the entire US (except maybe Hawaii).

    My understanding is (you can prove me wrong Very Happy ) that once the ICBM is in terminal phase i.e its warheads reenter the atmosphere at a speed <<10Mach no one can predict its trajectory owing to the presence of maneuverable reentry vehicle.

    Most MARVs are designed to initiate course corrections as the warhead falls to earth to improve accuracy. The manouvers are nothing like the manouvers needed to evade an interceptor and the targets are fixed items.
    Western MARVS are designed for maximum accuracy to get as close to the target as possible and has no way of detecting incoming interceptors or being able to manouver off target to evade those interceptors and then manouver again back on target.
    The exception is of course the MARV of the TOPOL-M which has been specifically designed to perform manouvers to evade interceptors directed at intercepting it.

    & also one can't predict while its in boosting phase; I think while in mid-phase being in orbit makes its movement somewht known however do the US have means to pinpoint this threat even in orbital coarse!!

    Ballistic missiles are actually ballistic... in other words for 5-10 minutes the rockets burn, usually three stages of burn, with the first the largest, and the last normally to get the missile to the correct speed and correct trajectory to hit the target area. The third stage carries the warhead bus that releases MIRVs on targets as it flys past them.
    Because of the distance between targets after the boost phase the targets can be estimated but until the warheads are released from the bus you really don't know what the actual targets are.

    EW satellites use all sorts of methods for detection, and include IR. TOPOL-M has a high energy shorter burn rocket motor designed to minimise the amount of time during the boost phase it can be intercepted.
    During the boost phase an ICBM or SLBM is extremely vulnerable because they are emitting enormous amounts of heat and to target them you just fire a missile or projectile at the dark spot on top of the enormous plume of fire.
    In the mid course phase the warhead bus might perform some manouvers to correct its flight path, but likely it will use low power cold gas thrusters and its temperature will purely be determined by whether the sun is shining on it or if it is in shadow.
    avatar
    nightcrawler

    Posts : 534
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 28
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:28 pm

    @GarryB

    I am yet to hear from your side that what be the system that can be exploited against the warheads to giv adequate coordinates to launch an interceptor??
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16891
    Points : 17499
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The U.S. Defense Support Program early warning satellites, first launched in 1970, enabled the US to detect a FOBS launch.

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:23 am

    If you look at the suggested ABM system in Europe it consisted of a very large X band radar to detect the incoming target and plot its trajectory and several high speed interceptors launched to reach potential intercept points at specific times.

    It requires calculations in 4 dimensions but for most targets it is not a huge problem because most targets try to keep to a strictly ballistic path and are relatively predictible.

    For terminal guidance a mix of IIR and radar are your main options and for targets that are merely correcting their path for accuracy purposes that should be fine.
    For a target actively trying to evade then it is almost impossible.

    The intercept point for a target travelling at a modest 8km per second, if it is out by 1 second you miss the target by 8kms. That is over the targets 10,000km flight, if you are out by 1 degree or one second you miss. Your interceptor rocket is travelling very fast too but it can't get to the intercept point and hover and wait, you are hitting a bullet with a bullet... hard at the best of times, near impossible if the target is manouvering specifically to evade your interceptor... and there is no reason why that incoming target wont have an active jammer or flares too.
    Above the atmosphere a decoy acts like a warhead... even when the decoy is mms thick sheet metal hollow cone... your warhead bus could carry hundreds stacked inside each other.

    Pervius

    Posts : 247
    Points : 267
    Join date : 2011-03-08

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  Pervius on Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:16 pm

    Does Russia have any concern this could be a tactical weapon and part of the missile defense shield or even a tactical weapon:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope

    Could it's massive mirrors take the suns energy from 900,000 miles from Earth and then direct that energy beam at another satellite or even the Hubble Telescope to fire directed energy down at Earth?

    I think this has a Defense use rather than "scientific". Maybe why they worked so hard on figuring out an orbit that will keep it in the same orbit as Earth. Constant capability.


    Many Americans have been unemployed so money could be freed up to make that weapon. If it was for "science" such a project should have been funded by the UN to make sure it couldn't be used as a weapon.


    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16891
    Points : 17499
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:00 am

    Does Russia have any concern this could be a tactical weapon and part of the missile defense shield or even a tactical weapon:

    It would be a very inefficient weapon.

    An easy target.

    Early telescopes used shaped glass to bend light to magnify the image and make it appear closer. As the bits of glass got bigger however to make the image appear closer and closer it was found that there is a problem with bending light with glass.

    Any glass prism will show that white light is made up of all the colours of the rainbow and when you shine light through glass the light tends to separate into its separate colours so images got colourful halos of bright colours.

    The solution was to use a mirror so the light coming from a long way away comes into an open tube with no glass at the front to hit the bottom of the tube which is lined with a large flat mirror which both reflects and focuses the image back up to about half way up the tube to a small mirror that redirects the focused image sideways out of the tube to a small lens that can be used to adjust the focus to get a sharp clear image.

    In big powerful telescopes replace the small mirror half way up the tube with an incredibly expensive CCD light sensor with a 100 mega pixel or better performance.
    The sensor blocks some of the light so the mirror in the bottom of the telescope might have a bare centre, but to look at things as close as 100km away or as far away as distant galaxies you need to be able to very accurately flex the mirror to the correct focal length to properly focus the image. Because of the huge range of distances the CCD detector might move up and down the tube a bit as well, but the point is that the long tube in front of the mirror will make it very very difficult to catch sunlight and redirect it at something on the Earth... especially as the telescope itself will be zipping along at orbital speeds.

    In this system however the mirrors are exposed and shielded from sunlight by a large shield.

    The CCD sensor will be mounted somewhere on the craft and the mirrors will be angled to direct a view of the target into the sensor.

    The system will be located near a Lagrange point to avoid entering the earths shadow... which is perfectly normal for a solar powered satellite

    A Lagrange point is an area of zero real gravity.

    In Earth orbit an object like the ISS is subject to Earths gravity... it keeps falling in a curve but because it is going so fast it misses landing on earth, or conversely it is trying to fly away from the earth but keeps falling back towards it enough so that its distance from earth never increases.
    On board the ISS everything is "falling" at the same rate and appears to be weightless, but from an energy point of view every once in a while the engines need to be fired to maintain its orbital height.

    To explain a Lagrange point it is a point of balanced or doubled or halved gravity. Think about the Earth and the moon.
    Both have their own gravity though the Earths gravity is more powerful than the Moons gravity because the Earth has more mass.
    If you were to move in a direct line from the Earth to the Moon for the first three quarters of the trip the Earths gravity would be the dominant force on you so if released or suddenly stopped in relation to both objects you would fall to Earth and not the the Moon.
    As you get closer to the moon however the effect of the moons gravity will increase and the effect of the Earths gravity will diminish because gravity is directly related to the square of distance. Eventually you will reach a point where the earths gravity equals the moons gravity and they balance out. If you stopped there you would stay there and not fall towards either the moon or the Earth... the gravity of the Earth would stop you falling toward the Moon but the gravity of the Moon would stop you falling toward the Earth.
    That is a Lagrange point.
    Lagrange point 1 actually.
    Lagrange point 2 for the Earth and the moon would be beyond the moon the distance where the gravity of the moon and the earth are equal again.

    In this case L2 for the Sun and the Earth is shown on this diagram:



    As anyone knows the closer to the sun the faster an object needs to go to prevent falling into that sun, so an object at the L2 position will be in about an 800,000km larger radius orbit than the Earth is... so if it wasn't an L2 point... if it was ahead or behind the Earth it would rapidly fall behind Earth. In the L2 point however it has the Sun and the Earths combined gravity to nudge it along and keep it in place so only a tiny amount of energy will be needed to keep it in place.

    It is a bit like Cyclists using slipstreaming in a bike race to reduce the amount of energy they need to burn to hold position by getting in behind another cyclist. Of course this works because the cyclist in front is doing work pushing through the undisturbed air, which is work the cyclist behind does not have to expend energy doing. In space there is no air.

    There is a stable Lagrange point between the Earth and the Sun though the passage of Venus and Mercury will upset an object at that point.

    This satellite will orbit the L2 Lagrange point so it will fly in a circle around the L2 point. It is called a Halo orbit because from the ground looking directly up at the L2 point the satellites orbital path looks like a circle around that point.
    At the L2 point the Earth would be constantly blocking some of the sunlight, but flying a halo orbit around L2 gives you all the gravity boost advantages of the L2 point plus the constant sunlight to the solar panels.
    The sunshield also never needs adjusting because the telescope will always point away from the Sun (and Earth).

    Personally I think if they really wanted a space based energy weapon they wouldn't put it on anything so public.

    Equally space based energy weapons are overrated. A laser weapon will suffer about a 1mm divergence per metre of travel, so from 100km up the laser when it hits the ground will be 100m across... which is pointless for anything except ranging.

    A over 1 million kms past Earths orbit this system (ie the CCD sensor and mirrors) would be damaged by exposure to the solar wind and the intense heat of direct sunlight.
    To retain its shape the mirrors need to be kept at a constant temperature... shining sunlight on them would unevenly heat them leading to warped and useless mirrors till they were cooled down again or fully heated to an even max temperature. That even high temperature would probably melt or damage the mirrors which will normally be kept cryogenically cool to observe deep space objects.

    It is designed to take light coming from millions of kms or trillions of light years and focus it on a point within the area of the spacecraft itself... it says it has a focal distance of 131m which means focusing on targets on Earth would be impossible anyway. At 800,000km away from the Earth and facing away from the Earth and the Sun there is zero chance this system could be used against anything on Earth or the Satellites in Earth orbit... even geostationary objects are much lower than this.

    Pervius

    Posts : 247
    Points : 267
    Join date : 2011-03-08

    James Webb Space Telescope

    Post  Pervius on Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Does Russia have any concern this could be a tactical weapon and part of the missile defense shield or even a tactical weapon:

    It would be a very inefficient weapon.

    An easy target.


    How many missions has Russia sent to Mars that failed? 30? 40? Deep Space isn't Russia's forte.

    Any asset you put out there is pretty safe. The laser on the moon could zap any attempt to get out there.

    "an inefficient weapon"?

    Pick up a book:

    ""An introduction to atmospheric radiation"" By Kuo-Nan Liou. The suns emissions if focused with a mirror could overload your satellites ability to release heat. Hence why Satellites have gone offline the last year. The sun alone took those satellites out. Now imagine you had a mirror setup able to focus that energy onto an ant...I mean satellite....burn baby burn.

    Have another satellite able to re-direct that energy to Earth.....and you sir have THE most powerful weapon.

    One has already been fired at Earth. It was more powerful than they expected. October .....come on who knows the year?

    avatar
    ahmedfire

    Posts : 676
    Points : 846
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : egypt

    Intercepting Topol-M?

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:43 am

    At what altitude can THAAd/Patriot3 intercept Topol-M ?

    I'm confused also , if we have a missile launched and at the upper of it's trajectory it drops the warhead that take very high velocity untill it reached atmosphere , it starts to lose this velocity , so i think we can  take the advantage of this and intercept the warhead at this point ? it will be easier than intercepting warhead at higher ranges !

    What i know is that we can't define at what range the warhead start to lose it's velocity coz the atmosphere defenition is bigger than what some people think !
    avatar
    SOC

    Posts : 581
    Points : 628
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 39
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  SOC on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:06 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    At what altitude can THAAd/Patriot3 intercept Topol-M ?

    They can't.
    avatar
    ahmedfire

    Posts : 676
    Points : 846
    Join date : 2010-11-11
    Location : egypt

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  ahmedfire on Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:20 pm

    SOC wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:
    At what altitude can THAAd/Patriot3 intercept Topol-M ?

    They can't.

    The RV reenters the Earth's atmosphere at velocities of up to Mach M 25, as the RV passes through the atmosphere, atmospheric friction decelerates it to below M 1,

    At 50 or 40 km altitude the RV will lose most of its velocity and radars can differ between real RV and decoy , so i think patriot missile (5 Mach) can intercept RVs at 20 km altitude that has avelocity lower than 1 Mach .
    avatar
    SOC

    Posts : 581
    Points : 628
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 39
    Location : Indianapolis

    4 billion Rubles order placed with Kirov Plant "Universalmash" for 40 tracked vehicles (12 in 2012, 21 in 2013 and 7 in 2014)to be used for S-300V4.

    Post  SOC on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:11 pm

    [quote="ahmedfire"][quote="SOC"]
    ahmedfire wrote:
    The RV reenters the Earth's atmosphere at velocities of up to Mach M 25, as the RV passes through the atmosphere, atmospheric friction decelerates it to below M 1,

    At 50 or 40 km altitude the RV will lose most of its velocity and radars can differ between real RV and decoy , so i think patriot missile (5 Mach) can intercept RVs at 20 km altitude that has avelocity lower than 1 Mach .

    No.  At 100,000 feet, the RV is still moving at about Mach 20.  Speed drops off from there due to the ballsitic coefficient of the RV design.

    Austin

    Posts : 6447
    Points : 6848
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  Austin on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:15 pm

    avatar
    Sujoy

    Posts : 903
    Points : 1069
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India

    Some interesting observation on KKV

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:44 am

    Good Read . Plus take MARV into the equation and Ballistic Missile Defense becomes redundant.

    Austin

    Posts : 6447
    Points : 6848
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Did Star Wars Help End the Cold War? Soviet Response to the SDI Program

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:41 pm

    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2967
    Points : 2998
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    US Ballistic Missile Defense Systems

    Post  max steel on Thu May 28, 2015 10:21 pm

    Cruise Missile Defense a Higher US Defense Priority


    United States military is shifting its focus from ballistic missile defense to defending the US homeland against cruise missile attacks.

      Homeland cruise missile defense is shifting above regional ballistic defense in my mind, as far as importance goes,” Admiral Winnefeld said in a speech at the Center for Strategic International Studies.On Friday, the US House of Representatives passed a budget with a specific provision directing the Department of Defense to develop a strategy to detect and defeat Russian cruise missiles. Laughing

    In recent months, the United States has started testing its Joint Land-Attack Cruise Missile Elevated Netted Sensor (JLENS) System to detect incoming cruise missiles and other low-flying objects around the Washington, DC area.

    Winnefeld commented that the United States is working to put JLENS in place as well as other systems to enhance its early warning capability.
    The US Department of Defense will also be focused on “changing out” some of the older systems currently used to intercept a cruise missile heading toward Washington, DC.

    Eventually, advanced cruise missile defense systems will be set up to defend other “important” parts of the United States, but not the entire country, Winnefeld noted, adding that budgetary constraints limit the extent of missile defense.

    The Defense Department requested a total of $8.8 billion in appropriations for 2016 to support all aspects of US missile defense, including programs to counter cruise missile threats.




    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150519/1022338708.html#ixzz3bSkE0a9g


    EXPLAIN WHAT JLENS IS EXACTLY ? I GUESS IT IS A COPY OS RUSSIA'S ABM ? ISN'T IT
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2967
    Points : 2998
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Cruise Missile Defense a Higher US Defense Priority

    Post  max steel on Fri May 29, 2015 1:52 pm

    Thanx and Garry can you explain what JLENS is and how washington d.c. can defend itself from cruise missile attack as you mentioned no nation can avoid fully an incoming cruise missile attack .
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2967
    Points : 2998
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  max steel on Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:31 am

    My question is : -

    1) What do you mean by saboteur teams ?

    2)What are PGSS missiles ?
    3)they are sort of cruise missiles or what ?
    4)Are these the same missile ussa wants to deploy in Romania ?
    5)you can DETECT AND NEUTRALIZE PGSS MISSILES VIA SENSORS USED TO CAMOUFLAGE TANKS ?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16891
    Points : 17499
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:16 pm

    What is the point of saboteur teams if you can't find the targets with satellites?

    remember the problems the US had finding Scud missiles in Iraq even though Iraq is not a huge country and they had total air control, not to mention it is further south so satellites in geostationary orbits get a better view and there was no one interfering with their satellites...

    How on earth are those saboteur teams supposed to track down and attack those trains before they find a siding... pull over and launch their missiles?

    Next you will be claiming they can send those very same teams to follow Russian SSBNs around the ocean able to sink them on command too....

    Nakidka defeats PGMs because if the munition can't see a target then it can't hit it. Just the same as optical guidance is effected by colour camouflage... if you can't see the man in the trees then you can't effectively shoot him...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1751
    Points : 1793
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:38 pm

    Who says that saboteurs have to be Seals or Green Berets? Why not bunch of pravosekov or Islamic suicide cr@p controlled by Saudis? In ever ycase Russian genrals did nt oshare your optimism guys (both you and Garry) and already BTR-80 are accompanying Yars launchers.

    2-3 monts ago there was info about new counter-saboteur APC with drones and accompanied by armed robots. With sniper and motion detectors in ranges like 2km.

    PGS AFAIK Prompt Global Strike - they do not have to send 1 missile but as many as they like if you can guess with enough accuracy where train CAN be.

    EW - well what about optical tracking form orbit?

    Gents unfortunately i cannot share your optimism.
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1175
    Points : 1184
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 21
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:14 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote: Who says that saboteurs have to be Seals or Green Berets? Why not bunch of pravosekov or Islamic suicide cr@p controlled by Saudis? In ever ycase Russian genrals did nt oshare your optimism guys (both you and Garry) and  already BTR-80  are accompanying Yars launchers.
    because they'll promptly get the shit kicked out of them by Russian MVD troops. right now life expectancy of such dregs is measured in a handful of months; get the whole country on high alert and that turns to few days, if not hours.
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    2-3 monts ago there was info about new counter-saboteur APC with drones and accompanied by armed robots.  With sniper and motion detectors in ranges like 2km.
    why not? UGVs are perfect for convoy escort- better sensors, better weaponry and most especially better endurance/persistence. they are remote controlled for now, but there is no issue with switching them to automatic. convoy guards are prolly instructed to immediately open fire on whatever they see that isnt friendly.
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    PGS AFAIK Prompt Global Strike - they do not have to send 1 missile but as many as they like if you can guess with enough accuracy where train CAN be.
    congratulations, you just bankrupted your country and restarted a new nuke arms race for real!
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    EW - well what about optical tracking form orbit?
    insufficient to say the least.
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2967
    Points : 2998
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  max steel on Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:30 pm

    you got it wrong . PGSS means Persistent Ground Surveillance Systems . NOT PGS Prompt Global Strike . US thinks it is The Best Defense Against Cruise Missiles . It is a giant surveillance Blimp .It is just like JLENS Joint Land Attack Cruise Missile Defense Elevated Netted Sensor . JLENS is basically a way for folks (like NORAD) to watch for low-flying cruise missiles (a.k.a. exploding drones without round trip tickets) and aircraft .

    JLENS aerostats are deployed in pairs called "orbits." One blimp carries a giant search radar system while the other has high-powered targeting radar. The search radar looks for interesting stuff — up to 340 miles away — so that the tracking radar can pinpoint the interesting thing and pass that info along to other people in the air defense ecosystem, who can then check it out, shoot at it, or whatever.

    At some point in the 1990s — back when people were flapping their gums about the pros and cons of defending against intercontinental ballistic missiles — during a periodic debate over missile defense, some bright spark observed that not all incoming nuclear missiles were necessarily going to be suborbital vehicles screaming in from space on ballistic trajectories. There's an entire universe of nuclear-armed cruise missiles that you need to pay attention to as well. If you're going to be doing "missile defense" you probably ought to defend against all the missiles — including cruise missiles.



    Read it here : https://news.vice.com/article/the-best-defense-against-cruise-missiles-might-be-this-giant-surveillance-blimp



    Actually i wanted to discuss this stuff here earlier that how come JLENS or PGSS surevillance blimps will pinpoint russian cruise missiles so that their air defenses norad can shoot it down ?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16891
    Points : 17499
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:10 pm

    you got it wrong . PGSS means Persistent Ground Surveillance Systems . NOT PGS Prompt Global Strike . US thinks it is The Best Defense Against Cruise Missiles . It is a giant surveillance Blimp .It is just like JLENS Joint Land Attack Cruise Missile Defense Elevated Netted Sensor . JLENS is basically a way for folks (like NORAD) to watch for low-flying cruise missiles (a.k.a. exploding drones without round trip tickets) and aircraft .


    So it is a defensive system that flys over your own territory watching for incoming cruise missiles... WTF has that to do with trains carrying ICBMs?

    Do you think the Russians will just let the US move a couple of large airships to operate over their airspace and look for missile trains?

    A train vs an airship sounds like one of those crap US movies... snakes vs crocodiles or sharktapus.... part shark and part octapus...

    The missile armed train would probably have a few S-400s and S-500s on it that could shoot down the air ship...

    JLENS aerostats are deployed in pairs called "orbits." One blimp carries a giant search radar system while the other has high-powered targeting radar. The search radar looks for interesting stuff — up to 340 miles away — so that the tracking radar can pinpoint the interesting thing and pass that info along to other people in the air defense ecosystem, who can then check it out, shoot at it, or whatever.


    So two airships emitting enormous beams of radar waves that any anti radiation missile could spot from enormous distances.... an ARM version of Iskander would be ideal I suspect... especially with a cluster munition warhead...

    Actually i wanted to discuss this stuff here earlier that how come JLENS or PGSS surevillance blimps will pinpoint russian cruise missiles so that their air defenses norad can shoot it down ?


    The Russians have already sold airship based monitoring systems to China for use in mountainous areas... I rather suspect they are working on all sorts of variations...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2967
    Points : 2998
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  max steel on Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:37 pm

    are these  american PGSS JLENS blimps act like russian  manpad igla and verba radars ? 

    gunship democracy mentioned about PGSS .

    Russians sold such similar aerostats to Chinese ? so it means russians did use such blimps for cruise missiles detection ?
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1751
    Points : 1793
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:12 pm

    @Garry

    well, my assumption is that US is preparing to strike first. So thye know when PGS missiles are to strike. The whole concept is based on reaching any point of planet with less then hour. So more less 20,000km/s if my math is correct. PGS are supposed to be cheaper then ICBMs otherwise why to change? In such case you to not need really to know which train is missile one. You cut tracks with explosions in area where train can be and bomb every train you spot. Stil lgood tradeoff if you can eliminate 6x10 nuclear warheads.

    Russia cannot do anything in peace times if missiles will be on orbit as payload of vehicle like X-37 or even X-37 in suicide mission.



    max steel wrote: gunship democracy mentioned about PGSS .


    nope, PGS = prompt global strike missiles.
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2967
    Points : 2998
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  max steel on Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:24 pm

    no gunship you are wrong . militarization of space is against the treaty and even if usa do so x-37b cant be used to carry nuclear missiles . remember russia tested Buran otv to examine that only whay you said .

    gunship read back your comment you mentioned pgss . pgss is a sensor tech ussa uses to pinpoint cruise missiles fired at them 
     pgs can be done only via hypersonic glider . that glider cant carry nuke warhead both ussa and china were testing their prototypes .

    Sponsored content

    Re: United States Missile Defense

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:34 pm