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    S-400 SAM System Exports

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:50 pm

    Airman wrote:There is no need for export model. Turkey wont be able to use the S-400's as effectively as Russia. We don't have Early Warning Radar system to integrate  S-400 systems like Russia. There are long range radar systems in Turkey, but they are produced entirely in NATO standards.

    They do need to export the export model to Turkey because sensitive electronics and components could be investigated by the US and so on if Turkey allowed them (They are part of NATO after all) and that alone has people cautious. So yes, they will end up with the export model. Like China and India would. Reason is, why give your specifics away?
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    Airman

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  Airman on Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:35 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Airman wrote:There is no need for export model. Turkey wont be able to use the S-400's as effectively as Russia. We don't have Early Warning Radar system to integrate  S-400 systems like Russia. There are long range radar systems in Turkey, but they are produced entirely in NATO standards.

    They do need to export the export model to Turkey because sensitive electronics and components could be investigated by the US and so on if Turkey allowed them (They are part of NATO after all) and that alone has people cautious.  So yes, they will end up with the export model.  Like China and India would.  Reason is, why give your specifics away?

    Russians already working on S-500. Don't They? When the S-500 enters the inventory of the Russian Army, S-400 will become an old system, just like the S-300. Turkey can't use the S-400 system as well as Russia. Maybe Russia can make a limitation by selling only 9M96E type missiles to Turkey.

    Obviously, I don't care too much about It's an export model or not. Turkey needs a air defense system, which is better than the MIM-23 Hawk.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  Isos on Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:53 pm

    Airman wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Airman wrote:There is no need for export model. Turkey wont be able to use the S-400's as effectively as Russia. We don't have Early Warning Radar system to integrate  S-400 systems like Russia. There are long range radar systems in Turkey, but they are produced entirely in NATO standards.

    They do need to export the export model to Turkey because sensitive electronics and components could be investigated by the US and so on if Turkey allowed them (They are part of NATO after all) and that alone has people cautious.  So yes, they will end up with the export model.  Like China and India would.  Reason is, why give your specifics away?

    Russians already working on S-500. Don't They? When the S-500 enters the inventory of the Russian Army, S-400 will become an old system, just like the S-300. Turkey can't use the S-400 system as well as Russia. Maybe Russia can make a limitation by selling only 9M96E type missiles to Turkey.

    Obviously, I don't care too much about It's an export model or not. Turkey needs a air defense system, which is better than the MIM-23 Hawk.

    S-500 isn't a replacement for the S-400. It is an all new system for a different task, intercepting missiles and satelites while it can also intercept fighters but that's not its main task. S-400 also can intercept ballistic missile but if they have too they use S-500.

    S-300 is widdly used in Russia. They just finished to upgrade them if I'm not wrong. It's not old at all. Last versions are very close to S-400 (which is a S-300 PMU3 actually).

    Evrything in the system will be downgraded export model, including missiles. Even if they give the 48N6 family it will be an export model. It is not probable that they give them just 9M96 because the system is build for very long range missiles.

    US can find a corrupted Indian soldier to give them informations about S-400 easily I think. Russia knows that and is aware of what they can give and what they should keep for them. The thing is also that those systems are very big and immune to fighter jamming systems and can destroy dedicated EW jets by passive triangulation, so even if they analyse it they won't be able to exploit this in a real scenario. It's not an old Osa.

    Its radar are so big you would need a boing 747 with lot of electric power to jam it. Don't expect fighter ECM pod to do something.
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:24 am

    Even with downgraded export components the S-400 will be a very formidable system for Turkey and will make all her neighbours and even allies respect her airspace.

    Integrating it into Turkeys Air defence network is not a big deal... your existing IADS will generate target information that can be passed on to the S-400 batteries in your defence structure and it can use that information to target threats... indeed with its radars and sensors it should be able to pass information to your IADS too making the system even better.


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    Airman

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  Airman on Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:06 pm

    Contract signed to supply Russian S-400 missile systems to Turkey – exporter

    A contract to supply S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems to Turkey has been signed but has not yet entered into force, the head of Russian defense giant Rosoboronexport said.

    “The contract has been signed, but it has not entered into force yet,” Rosoboronexport Director General Aleksey Mikheev told reporters on Tuesday, adding that “the work is still ongoing, technical issues remain.”
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    jhelb

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  jhelb on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:11 pm

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    JohninMK

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:34 pm

    Hürriyet Daily News‏Verified account @HDNER 8h8 hours ago

    Turkey has put down a deposit on S-400 missiles to Russia: Erdoğan http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-has-put-down-a-deposit-on-s-400-missiles-to-russia-erdogan-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=117844&NewsCatID=510 … @VahapMunyar
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    Airman

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  Airman on Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:20 pm

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    JohninMK

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:53 pm

    Cemal‏ @Acemal71 1h1 hour ago

    Turkish Undersecretary for #Defense Industries @IsmailDemirSSM says, S-400 delivery from #Russia can start minimum in 2 years.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:57 pm

    So, no build in Turkey option.

    Vladimir Kozhin, Russian presidential aide for military and technical cooperation, said on Friday that Turkey has made an advance payment for the Russian S-400 missile system.

    "The contract has entered into force, the advance payment has been made, I cannot say about the timeframe now," Kozhin said.

    He did emphasize that there was no discussion on allowing Turkey to have production technology for the S-400 system.

    "We are not speaking about it, as yet we speak only about supplies of ready weapons, technologies - no," he said.


    http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/turkey-makes-first-payment-for-russian.html
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    Airman

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  Airman on Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:00 pm

    I think that it isn't very economical to open a production line in Turkey for two S-400 systems. There is no infrastructure in Turkey to produce eastern weapon systems such as S-400 and HQ-9.

    Also Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Şimşek said that, Turkey will pay 9 Million Turkish Lira for a single S-400 system. (9 Million TL= 2,5 Million Dollar)
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:19 am

    Local production just makes everything much more expensive... unless Turkey wants hundreds of batteries and hundreds of thousands of missiles it does not make sense for local production.

    Better to use offset packages and basically end up paying in local products...


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    BM-21

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  BM-21 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:36 am

    Russia and Saudi Arabia agreed on the supply of the S-400

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4628855
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    BM-21

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  BM-21 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:36 pm

    Turkey will return S-400, if Russia refuses from their joint production

    Ankara may refuse to purchase S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems from Moscow unless an agreement on their joint production is reached. This was stated by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Turkey Mevlut Cavusoglu in an interview with the newspaper Akşam, published on Monday.

    "We did not receive any official refusal on this topic. [Russian President Vladimir] Putin himself told us that we can take steps for joint production. Therefore, the technology will be relevant. But if Russia is negative about this, we can conclude an agreement with another country, "the minister said.

    "We need to buy them urgently [S-400], because they have a need. We need to protect our airspace. However, if the countries opposed to Russia do not want Turkey to buy from her the S-400, then they must give us their option, "Cavusoglu stressed.

    Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan reported on September 12 that Ankara had signed an agreement with Moscow on the acquisition of S-400 systems, and the deposit has already been paid. In late September, this was confirmed by Vladimir Kozhin, the presidential aide on military-technical cooperation. At the same time, he stressed that "the issue of transferring the technology of production of S-400 anti-aircraft systems to Turkey is not being discussed."

    http://politlife.ru/world/14626/

    Translation from Russian article.

    If you don't like the deal then go elsewhere. If it is so hugely important to your national security then buy it and stop whining. Russia can do without your tomatoes. It's probably some type of pressure to get Russia to transfer the S-400 technology and internal systems that they are after.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:20 pm

    BM-21 wrote:Russia and Saudi Arabia agreed on the supply of the S-400

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4628855

    MOSCOW, October 9. /TASS/. Russia and Saudi Arabia have agreed to supply anti-aircraft missile systems s-400. This was reported by TASS in the press service of the Federal service for military-technical cooperation.

    "We confirm that with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia reached an agreement on deliveries of air defense systems s-400, anti-tank missile complexes "Kornet-EM", systems TOS-1A, automatic grenade launcher systems AGS-30, Kalashnikov AK-103", - said the press service.

    The interest of Riyadh in the purchase of s-400 earlier reported, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.


    I'd treat that with a very large pinch of salt. Saudi is half way through negotiations for $15B of US SAMs. Also they have a history of talking deals up. Anyway since when have contracts for that number of products been set up over a few days?
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    George1

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:18 am

    Exports of Russia’s S-400 missile systems

    Currently, the S-400 systems are in service only in Russia

    TASS-FACTBOX. On Monday, the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation announced that Russia and Saudi Arabia reached agreements on the supplies of S-400 missile systems to Riyadh.

    Currently, the S-400 systems are in service only in Russia. As of Monday, the contracts on the supplies of S-400 Triumf systems (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) have been signed with four countries, including Saudi Arabia.

    China

    In July 2014, then-Kremlin chief of staff, Sergey Ivanov, told reporters that China could become the first foreign customer of the S-400. Shortly after, Russia’s Zvezda TV channel reported about China’s plans to buy at least six S-400 divisions worth more than $3 bln. On November 26, 2014, Vedomosti business daily reported, citing sources close to the Russian Defense Ministry, that Moscow signed a contract to supply the S-400 to China. On October 27, 2015, Director General of Rosoboronexport, Russia’s arms exporter, Anatoly Isaykin told reporters that it would supply the S-400 to China "within the timeframe set by the contract." Neither the sum of the deal nor the exact date was announced.

    In November 2015, Russia`s Presidential Aide for Military-Technical Cooperation Vladimir Kozhin confirmed to journalists that the contract had been signed. In March 2016, Director General of the Rostec state corporation Sergey Chemezov said China had made an advance payment for the supplies of these missile systems. In June, he said the Chinese army would obtain these systems not earlier than 2018. On April 26, 2017, the press service of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation confirmed that the contract started being implemented.

    India


    On October 15, 2016, after talks between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the BRICS summit in Goa an agreement on S-400 supplies to India was signed. Neither the sum nor other details of the deal were unveiled. Earlier, Indian mass media reported about the country’s plans to buy five S-400 divisions.

    Turkey

    In November 2016, the talks between Turkey and Russia on the S-400 came to light. In March 2017, Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov told reporters that the Turkish side expressed its wish to get a Russian loan on purchasing armaments, including the S-400.

    On July 25, 2017, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced that "certain documents" as part of a deal on buying Russia’s S-400 were signed. The Russian side confirmed on September 12, 2017 that the contract was inked. President Erdogan said that Ankara had made an advance payment under the contract.

    Turkey became the first NATO member-state purchasing Russia’s S-400. Russian Presidential Aide Kozhin stressed that giving to Turkey production technologies for S-400 systems was out of question. No details on the number of divisions were provided.

    According to Kommersant business daily, Turkey paid more than $2 bln to buy four S-400 divisions. Turkish Undersecretary for Defense Industry Ismail Demir later said the delivery of S-400 systems would begin within two years.

    Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told the Aksam daily in an interview on Monday that Ankara could give up plans to buy the S-400 if no agreement on joint Russian-Turkish production of this system was reached.

    Russia’s Defense Ministry representatives earlier said the S-400 could be exported to Belarus and Kazakhstan. No such supplies have been officially reported.

    On August 28, 2017, the head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Dmitry Shugayev, told Kommersant that about a dozen of bids to buy the S-400 were being considered.

    In September, Russian Presidential Aide for Military-Technical Cooperation Vladimir Kozhin said in an interview with TASS that there was a waiting list of likely buyers eager to have this system. According to the official, countries of Southeast Asia, the Middle East and some member-states of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) showed interest in the S-400.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/969682


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    Airman

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  Airman on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:52 am

    Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said there was no problem with the purchase of Russian S-400 anti-aircraft systems, adding that Ankara also held talks on the S-500, a THAAD-type system, currently under development.

    “In our talks with [Russia President Vladimir] Putin we are not thinking of stopping with the S-400s. We have had talks on the S-500s too,” Erdogan said, speaking to reporters as he returned from a trip to Ukraine and Serbia, as cited by Habertürk newspaper and Reuters.

    According to the Turkish president, there won’t be any joint production in the first stage of S-400 purchases.

    “…but in the second stage, God willing, we will take joint production steps,” Erdogan said.

    No problem in buying Russian S-400s, Erdogan says, hints at S-500 talks
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    JohninMK

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:49 pm

    India will purchase five regiments of Russian S-400 Triumf Air Defence Missile System (ADMS) valued at over six billion dollars. The contract is slated to be signed after two months in December in New Delhi as the Contract-Negotiation-Committee (CNC) comprising Russian and Indian officials, which has been working furtively since July, has wrapped up its work. The Union finance ministry has cleared the purchase and the file is with the Prime Minister’s Office.

    It will be a government-to-government purchase with no provision for transfer of technology. Russia has assured that the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) — Almay-Antey Air Defence Corporation — will deal directly with the user, the Indian Air Force, to ensure timely product support. At present, all product support including spares and overhaul is done through Rosoboronexport, which is the official Russian export agency for arms sales.

    Since India hopes for an early delivery of S-400, it has not considered Moscow’s offer of credit line for the purchase. Instead, cash will be given in tranches. The first, or perhaps two regiments, could be delivered by early 2020.

    Each S-400 regiment comprises two batteries with four launchers each; this makes a total of 40 launchers for five regiments. Interestingly, India has ordered a total of 1,200 missiles in the very long-range and long-range category, with none in the medium and short ranges category. There will be fewer very-long range category missiles as compared with the other category.

    ........................................................

    There is a queue for purchase of S-400; while priority goes to the Russian armed forces — which have been inducting the system since 2008 —, China and Turkey have already paid for the purchase. China has sought just one regiment of S-400, perhaps to cover its Taiwan flank. Moreover, there are reports that Algeria too have paid for two regiments of S-400. According to Russian officials, Saudi King Salman, who was recently in Russia on the trip with deep geo-political significance, spoke with the Russian President for an early purchase of S-400.


    http://forceindia.net/decks-cleared-contract-signing-s-400-adms-december/
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    George1

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:52 pm

    Morocco is negotiating the acquisition of the S-400 surface-to-air missile system

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2946420.html


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    Airman

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    Re: S-400 SAM System Exports

    Post  Airman on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:03 am

    Turkish Defence Minister Nurettin Canikli says the first delivery of the Russian S-400 missile system is planned for 2019
    https://twitter.com/TRTWorldNow/status/933258800458383360

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