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    BAE Taranis

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    Vann7

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    BAE Taranis

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:06 pm

    Can anyone comment on this..  how true or bullshit is this?

    BAE Systems claims they have an unmanned combat plane that neither RUssia or CHina low frequency+high resolution radars on development in the future will be able to counter..



    BAE Systems' Taranis unmanned combat air system demonstrator is designed to defeat new counter-stealth radars, and may use thrust vectoring as a primary means of flight control and an innovative high-precision, passive navigation and guidance system, an AW&ST analysis indicates

    Taranis is a blended wing-body shape with no tail surfaces, like most UCAS designs for wide-band, all-aspect stealth. It has a triangular top-mounted inlet and 2-D V-shaped exhaust nozzle. The underside is flat, with visible outlines representing weapon-bay doors. Panels under the leading edge point to provision for a dual-antenna radar like a smaller version of that fitted to the B-2 bomber. The demonstrator may be designed so that functional weapon bays and sensors can be installed for a follow-on program.

    The Rolls-Royce Adour engine is mounted low in the center fuselage, behind a serpentine duct. Two small doors are visible on either side of the raised centerbody, and are likely to be auxiliary inlets used at low speeds. The weapon-bay outlines are on either side of the engine and the forward-retracting main landing gears are outboard of the weapon bays. The demonstrator's gear comes from the Saab Gripen.

    The wing leading edges are highly swept to reduce head-on radar cross-section at all wavelengths. The double-V trailing edge is swept more acutely than on most blended wing-body UCAS designs. Unlike the Northrop Grumman X-47B or the Dassault-led Neuron, there are no short-chord wing sections or short edges: The shortest edge is more than 11 ft. long.

    This most likely indicates Taranis is designed to avoid detection by very high frequency (VHF) early warning radars such as those being developed by Russia and China as counter-stealth systems (AW&ST Sept. 2, 2013, p. 28). VHF radars can detect some stealth shapes with wing and tail surfaces close in size to their meter-range wavelengths. When that happens, radar scattering is driven by “resonant” phenomena not affected by the target's shape.


    Full report..

    http://aviationweek.com/awin/broadband-stealth-may-drive-taranis-design


    Also have anyone heard or read about the book of Robotics in the battlefield?
    It appears US is working in low cost ,unmanned intelligent drones that can be used in the hundreds if not thousands
    to overwhelm enemy defenses..and radars ,to keep them very busy and vulnerable to attacks..  The tactic americans
    are researching is not only with mass attacks on Russian /chinesse defenses with very small intelligent drones.. but also taking into account the cost/performance ratio.. cost of S-400 missile vs a $1,000/$500 drone for example.. Here is the book cover.. shows a massive wave of intelligent drones formation that looks like birds.. that seems quite challenging saturation attack to counter with either missiles or gatling guns..of a pantsir..  



    http://www.cnas.org/the-coming-swarm#.VMIfgodLOUk

    For such kind of technology.. Thousands of intelligent Birds like drones , i do not see the S-400s or S-500
    becoming effective against that.. Neither Pantsirs or BUk or TOrs..This goes to a question i had long time ago.. about how effective are Russian defenses against thousands of drones saturating their airspace at same time. That will be the only way NATO could consider to try if ever a conflict happens.


    The only system i can see to counter such waves of drones is with counter electronic jamming..or emp attacks ,
    but perhaps they are also exploring ways to make their drones anti jamming..  Looks interesting the research ..wonder if anyone read something about Russia ways to counter such massive attacks if in the near future NATO develops such technology.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:47 pm; edited 5 times in total
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    Werewolf

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:08 pm

    So what, the radar range spectrum is very broad and they can not make it stealth against all bandwidths at the same time, if long waves don't work they will search for medium with longwaves and triangulate the planes.
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:25 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Can anyone comment on this..

    BAE Systems claims they have an unmanned combat plane that neither RUssia or CHina low frequency+high resolution radars on development in the future will be able to counter..



    BAE Systems' Taranis unmanned combat air system demonstrator is designed to defeat new counter-stealth radars, and may use thrust vectoring as a primary means of flight control and an innovative high-precision, passive navigation and guidance system, an AW&ST analysis indicates

    Taranis is a blended wing-body shape with no tail surfaces, like most UCAS designs for wide-band, all-aspect stealth. It has a triangular top-mounted inlet and 2-D V-shaped exhaust nozzle. The underside is flat, with visible outlines representing weapon-bay doors. Panels under the leading edge point to provision for a dual-antenna radar like a smaller version of that fitted to the B-2 bomber. The demonstrator may be designed so that functional weapon bays and sensors can be installed for a follow-on program.

    The Rolls-Royce Adour engine is mounted low in the center fuselage, behind a serpentine duct. Two small doors are visible on either side of the raised centerbody, and are likely to be auxiliary inlets used at low speeds. The weapon-bay outlines are on either side of the engine and the forward-retracting main landing gears are outboard of the weapon bays. The demonstrator's gear comes from the Saab Gripen.

    The wing leading edges are highly swept to reduce head-on radar cross-section at all wavelengths. The double-V trailing edge is swept more acutely than on most blended wing-body UCAS designs. Unlike the Northrop Grumman X-47B or the Dassault-led Neuron, there are no short-chord wing sections or short edges: The shortest edge is more than 11 ft. long.

    This most likely indicates Taranis is designed to avoid detection by very high frequency (VHF) early warning radars such as those being developed by Russia and China as counter-stealth systems (AW&ST Sept. 2, 2013, p. 28). VHF radars can detect some stealth shapes with wing and tail surfaces close in size to their meter-range wavelengths. When that happens, radar scattering is driven by “resonant” phenomena not affected by the target's shape.


    Full report..

    http://aviationweek.com/awin/broadband-stealth-may-drive-taranis-design


    Might be just obfuscation for simple Low altitude maneuver. Thus utilizing the radar's horizon limitation to avoid detection.

    I don't see any indication that Taranis will have B-2 size or "super sophisticated" material that can be thin enough to work at VHF.


    Vann7

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:33 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:

    I don't see any indication that Taranis will have B-2 size or "super sophisticated" material that can be thin enough to work at VHF.


    Updated my post check again.. Smile

    Vann7

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:40 pm

    Werewolf wrote:So what, the radar range spectrum is very broad and they can not make it stealth against all bandwidths at the same time, if long waves don't work they will search for medium with longwaves and triangulate the planes.

    apparently the claim is the Stealth will be against all wave length of radio spectrum and that the unmanned plane will not have any tail or mobile part ...

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    Werewolf

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:47 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:So what, the radar range spectrum is very broad and they can not make it stealth against all bandwidths at the same time, if long waves don't work they will search for medium with longwaves and triangulate the planes.

    apparently the claim is the Stealth will be against all wave length of radio spectrum and that the unmanned plane will not have any tail or mobile part ...


    Sure if they want to make PR to counter any assertions that their stealth planes are not as stealth and completley "invisible" like they said for the past decades then let them mumble, reaiity is that is not the case and is already very hard to create a stealth object against long waves.
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:10 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    Updated my post check again.. Smile

    That thousands of drones sounds to me like overglorified and clearly overexpensive version of chaff. Thousands of drones mean it would be small... Small drones means small payload.. small payload means small powerplant.. small powerplant means it cannot go as far, as fast or as high as real planes. Which would mean if those drones start appearing then the launcher must not be far.. Drop Iskander or even BM-30 there will solve the matter.

    Buk, pantsyrs and S-400 may not even need to pay anything but some processing power at most to extract real planes or precision munitions from that flocks.

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    GarryB

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:07 am

    BAE Systems claims they have an unmanned combat plane that neither RUssia or CHina low frequency+high resolution radars on development in the future will be able to counter..

    Yeah... and the SA80 is the best rifle in the world...

    What access has BAE systems had to Russian and Chinese radars?

    BAE Systems' Taranis unmanned combat air system demonstrator is designed to defeat new counter-stealth radars, and may use thrust vectoring as a primary means of flight control and an innovative high-precision, passive navigation and guidance system, an AW&ST analysis indicates.

    Typhoon doesn't even have thrust control engines but they are going to develop an unmanned aircraft that has no flight control surfaces or tail to make it stealthy...

    It appears US is working in low cost ,unmanned intelligent drones

    Lots of mutually exclusive terms in that sentence already... I would say a 125mm grape shot round could be developed and fired at the clouds as they approach.

    Also where will these thousands of drones be launched from? Destroy their transport before they are launched.

    Here is the book cover.. shows a massive wave of intelligent drones formation that looks like birds.. that seems quite challenging saturation attack to counter with either missiles or gatling guns..of a pantsir..

    Some trained hawks?

    Nah... I would say a mixture of airburst rounds like ANEIT and some grape shot rounds would suffice for most of them.

    doesn't all have to be 125mm rounds either... 57mm shells both grape shot and time fused would deal with many of the numbers.

    Besides for them to work together they would have to communicate, so jamming, decoys and tactical nukes over the airport from which they came.

    And when they say cheap do they mean cheap like the F-16 or cheap like the F-35?


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    Werewolf

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:00 pm

    The day starts great already...

    It appears US is working in low cost ,unmanned intelligent drones

    Lots of mutually exclusive terms in that sentence already... I would say a 125mm grape shot round could be developed and fired at the clouds as they approach.

    Also where will these thousands of drones be launched from? Destroy their transport before they are launched.

    Thank you, GarryB. Laughing
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: BAE Taranis

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:33 am

    GarryB wrote:
    BAE Systems claims they have an unmanned combat plane that neither RUssia or CHina low frequency+high resolution radars on development in the future will be able to counter..

    Yeah... and the SA80 is the best rifle in the world...

    What access has BAE systems had to Russian and Chinese radars?

    BAE Systems' Taranis unmanned combat air system demonstrator is designed to defeat new counter-stealth radars, and may use thrust vectoring as a primary means of flight control and an innovative high-precision, passive navigation and guidance system, an AW&ST analysis indicates.

    Typhoon doesn't even have thrust control engines but they are going to develop an unmanned aircraft that has no flight control surfaces or tail to make it stealthy...

    It appears US is working in low cost ,unmanned intelligent drones

    Lots of mutually exclusive terms in that sentence already... I would say a 125mm grape shot round could be developed and fired at the clouds as they approach.

    Also where will these thousands of drones be launched from? Destroy their transport before they are launched.

    Here is the book cover.. shows a massive wave of intelligent drones formation that looks like birds.. that seems quite challenging saturation attack to counter with either missiles or gatling guns..of a pantsir..  

    Some trained hawks?

    Nah... I would say a mixture of airburst rounds like ANEIT and some grape shot rounds would suffice for most of them.

    doesn't all have to be 125mm rounds either... 57mm shells both grape shot and time fused would deal with many of the numbers.

    Besides for them to work together they would have to communicate, so jamming, decoys and tactical nukes over the airport from which they came.

    And when they say cheap do they mean cheap like the F-16 or cheap like the F-35?

    Garry why bother? Aerial drones are stupid and are susceptible to jamming/ECM, even the old Soviet legacy mobile jamming/ecm station such as Autobaza/Autobase (an export variant even) in Iran made a complete mockery of the RQ-170, one of the most advanced drones in the U.S. inventory. If a export-variant Soviet legacy system could do that to the RQ-170, imagine what the brand new domestic-variant of 'Nightshade' could do to a swarming fleet of drones? No shot would be necessary, 'Nightshade' is said to have an impressive standoff range of 400 km, and would cause hundreds, or potentially thousands of drones come crashing from the sky.
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    higurashihougi

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    BAE Systems claims they have an unmanned combat plane

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:43 am

    Actually we had aerial drone or UAV long ago, they are the things called "cruise missile" or "guided missile".

    Can guided missiles fly ? Yes. Are they floating in the air ? Yes. They are unmanned ? Yes. They have a robotic pilot ? Yes.

    Replace the explosive warhead with a camera then you have an UAV.

    If AA defense can intercept guided missiles then it is able to find a way to stop aerial drones.

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