Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Vityaz SAM System

    Share
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:15 am

    Austin wrote:Range is just one factor of missile , the other would be performance/Energy , kill probability against wide range of targets including high G manouvering ones , ability to deal with saturation attack , Autonomous Capability and last but not least Performance of Radar in hostile EW ECM/ECCM environment.

    Vityaz would surpass any S-300 model and could be even better under certain scenerio than S-400 in the above mentioned criteria.
    What?? Austin, get some sleep. 


    Do you really want to compare BIG missile in the back (48N6E2) with those two tiny in front (9M96 class) and systems needed to guide BIG one with the systems needed to guide small ones? Very Happy Very Happy  and the impact on the battlefield when BIG one appears? Very Happy Very Happy 


    Austin

    Posts : 6232
    Points : 6638
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Austin on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:21 am

    Big and Tiny have their own pro/cons depending on what you are dealing with.

    Minuturisation of electronics and materials used have helped greatly reducing the size/weight of 9M96 without compromising any of its capability.

    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:31 am

    Austin wrote:Big and Tiny have their own pro/cons depending on what you are dealing with.

    Minuturisation of electronics and materials used have helped greatly reducing the size/weight of 9M96 without compromising any of its capability.

    Really Austin? 

    Tell me Austin, what do you think, are Americans more afraid (when flying in JSTARS or AWACS or F-15 in a mission) of several 40N6 (400km range),9M82M(350km range), 48N6E2 (250km range) OR 120km range 9M96? Dont make me laugh. 

    Each version has its importance and is best in its class and what it does but to say a S-350 is better in any way than S-400 or S-300Favorit is a very big mastake Austin.

    Austin

    Posts : 6232
    Points : 6638
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Austin on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:36 am

    I said Vityaz is better than S-300 and even S-400 in certain condition ie to deal with certain types of target and dealing with saturation attack as 9M96 has its own ARH seeker that provides a degree of autonomy.

    If Vityaz was never better than S-300 which its planning to replace then why would they build it in first place ?
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:44 am

    Austin wrote:I said Vityaz is better than S-300 and even S-400 in certain condition ie to deal with certain types of target and dealing with saturation attack as 9M96 has its own ARH seeker that provides a degree of autonomy.
    You do realize that 9M96 missiles are integral part of S-400 and S-300Favorit? So how can a S-350 (with 9M96 class) be better system during saturation attacks than S-400 that besides 

    9M96 class has 48N6E2/40N6 and a radar and command post with absolutely brutal performance? Very Happy 


    Austin wrote:If Vityaz was never better than S-300 which its planning to replace then why would they build it in first place ?
    Vityaz is replacing old versions of S-300 system while newer ones are being modernized to Favorit standard. Vityaz will bear a crown for what it is intended to do but that is not to compete with higher tier SAMs Very Happy

    Austin

    Posts : 6232
    Points : 6638
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Austin on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:52 am

    9M96 was part of S-400 SAM but not sure it still would be after the advent of Vityaz. Most likely S-400 will end up having 2 types of missile 48N6E2 and 40N6.......I could be wrong but lets see......

    Also looking at just the missile outside shell does not say much , Most certainly Vityaz will exploit all the advancement made in Electronics and Rocket fuel , Radars etc ....to say the least we know little about Vityaz and more about its export cousin S-350E.

    No the upgrade to PM-1/2 standard is a transient one ..once Vityaz is available in number they would replace the entire S-300 series starting with older models.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:31 pm

    Austin wrote:9M96 was part of S-400 SAM but not sure it still would be after the advent of Vityaz. Most likely S-400 will end up having 2 types of missile 48N6E2 and 40N6.......I could be wrong but lets see......
    Haha you are persistent even when proven wrong. So you are basically saying that the system which uses some missile is better then the one that besides that class, has two more and much more powerful types of missiles, because the other system may not use the previous class but you are not sure Very Happy  


    Austin wrote:Also looking at just the missile outside shell does not say much , Most certainly Vityaz will exploit all the advancement made in Electronics and Rocket fuel , Radars etc ....to say the least we know little about Vityaz and more about its export cousin S-350E
    And you really think that 48N6E2 huge increase in range, speed, precision, etc came out of nowhere?

    Austin Very Happy  , advances in science are implemented on all areas of military activities not just some. 

    Austin

    Posts : 6232
    Points : 6638
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:13 am

    Got some info on S-350E from http://www.missiles.ru/

    S-350E provide reliable problem solving defense of civil and military installations from various massive strikes, including high-speed and stealth, including tactical and operational-tactical ballistic missiles, modern and future air attack. The effectiveness of air defense missile systems based on its ability to simultaneously reflect the impacts of different types of air attack from any direction (round) at all altitudes of their flight (from extremely low to high altitude) in any weather conditions, day and night in difficult noise conditions.

    The composition of the AAMS include: command and control point (MODU) 50K6E, multifunction radar (MFR) 50N6E (up to 2 units) and launchers (PU) 50P6E (up to 8 units) with twelve anti-aircraft guided missiles of medium-range 9M96E2 (developer - of "IBC "Torch" them. PD Grushin "). The main highlight of the AAMS is multifunctional radar detection of air targets of a new type which has no analogues in Russia. This station is the main communication tool of S-350E, working in a circular and sectoral modes and provides tracking up to 100 targets. Manage MPR and PU done remotely from the point of command and control, which can be removed from them at a distance of 2 km. All components are placed on AAMS unified chassis BAZ-69092-012, manufactured by JSC "Bryansk Wheeled Tractor Plant." The launcher is designed for transportation, storage, automatic prelaunch and launch anti-aircraft guided missiles. Missile launches are possible at intervals of 2 seconds System C-350E is capable of hitting up to 16 or up to 12 aerodynamic ballistic targets, the maximum number of simultaneously induced SAM - 32. This provides for aerodynamic purposes loss ranges from 1.5 to 60 km altitude and - from 0.01 up to 30 km, and ballistic - 1.5 to 30 km, and between 2 and 25 km, respectively. Time to bring in funds AAMS embattled from the march is only five minutes, a crew - 3 people. The system has high mobility and survivability, can operate autonomously, conducting independent military operations, and as part of air defense groups under the control of the parent command posts. Combat work S-350E is taught entirely automatically, and provides only a crew trained to work AAMS and controls the subsequent course of the fighting.

    http://missiles2go.ru/

    Plenty of room for "Hero"

    n During the work Airshow on questions "Arrows" answered deputy General Director-General by organization Research and development - first replaced stitel General Designer JSC "GSKB" Almaz - Antey " Nicholas Nenartovich.


    - A than more can attract Foreign partners our "Hero"?


    - In S-350E fundamentally new architecture locator. It is applied fully digital signal processing. Dramatically reduced the amount of equipment several times reduced the number of units compared with the S-400 "Triumph", without derating AAMS.

    In the production of significantly reduced the complexity of manufacturing. And most importantly, perhaps, is that all those approaches which are laid to create the C-350E, serve as the basis for all our further developments. In the future, we plan to create a line of multi-function radars for air defense missile systems of various types of missile defense, air defense long-range, medium-range.

    However, this requirement is the time - to build on the common technological approaches, single equipment that allows to unify the product. And in the "Vityaz" we laid evrokonstruktiv modern, which is much simpler and at the same time effectively applied earlier. Worked out a new antenna design that significantly less expensive.

    - A as one can position new AAMS -350 C to E respect to C and -300 With -400 "Triumph"?

    - S-350E is positioned as a system that should replace the S-300PT (PS). You and I have had the first such system boundary of the affected area of ​​75 km. The new complex, we also go out to a range of 60 km, but the ammunition on one launcher of 12 missiles that significantly more "trehsotki." In addition, the locator works in fully automatic mode, and a crew is in paragraph combat control and protected from attacks of the same type of high-speed anti-radar missiles HARM.

    In S-350E laid great modernization potential. The same launcher AAMS further can take not only medium-range missile, but also short-range missiles.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:03 pm

     thumbsup 

    State trials of Vityaz missile system to end by 2015 - Almaz-Antey exec

    things are going smooth with Vityaz.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:07 pm

    Nice  russia 



    Production of anti-aircraft S-350 "Hero" will begin next year


    Test air defense missile system ( ADMS) C-350 " Hero ", first presented in August at the MAKS-2013, should be completed by early 2015, after production begins, the general director of the North-West Regional Center of Concern PVO " Almaz-Antey " ( Developer SAM) Michael Podvyaznikov . According weapons program, with 2016 expected to begin shipping the new complex in troops, company intends to sustain this period, he added. Production complexes involved belongs to the concern " GOZ Obukhov plant "in St. Petersburg.

    SAM " Vityaz "is fully automatic - a crew provides only deploy complex and controls the course of hostilities, said in the prospectus " Almaz-Antey ". It uses rocket 9M96E2 created based on " small "missile system S-300, whereby one launcher accommodates 12 rockets at once. Two multifunction radar guidance to enable simultaneous 32 missiles on 16 aerodynamic targets, defeat is provided at a range of up to 60 km and at an altitude of 10 m to 30 km. Possible defeat ballistic targets. Although the " Vityaz "if necessary, may act autonomously, in Russia it will be part of a hierarchical system of air defense system along with short-range " shell "complexes and long-range S-400 and S-500 and replace the outdated S-300PS modification. According Podvyaznikova production volume of the new complex will be sufficient to fully replace the C-300.

    On what gear will be based production model " Vityaz "show trials Podvyaznikov added. Variants of production " Bryansk Automobile Plant "and " Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant. "

    Only technique to force air and space defense weapons in the state program for 2011-2020. planned to allocate more than 3.4 trillion rubles.



    http://www.vedomosti.ru/companies/news/21674331/proizvodstvo-zenitnyh-kompleksov-vityaz-nachnetsya-v#ixzz2rKg7DFsF
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7255
    Points : 7555
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:17 pm

    I thought it would have more range than that as S-300PS has 90km range, no? Then again, article mentions export variant missiles.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3189
    Points : 3279
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  medo on Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:36 pm

    As I know, 9M96E2 have range of 120 km. 9M96D have range of 60 km and I think it is domestic version of export 9M96E1, which have range of 40 km. Maybe domestic long range 9M96 could have range around 150 km.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:11 pm

    attack  thumbsup 


    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Thu May 22, 2014 1:14 pm

    Another confirmation - Almaz-Antey seems not to have any problems with it

    Russia will start serial production of complex defense "Hero" in 2015
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    9M100

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat May 24, 2014 2:07 am

    9M100

    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Some of the Older and the Newer Variants of the 9M96 Family

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat May 24, 2014 2:22 am

    Some of the older and newer variants of the 9M96 family:

    avatar
    navyfield

    Posts : 193
    Points : 148
    Join date : 2013-05-27

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  navyfield on Sat May 24, 2014 8:12 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:9M100

    strange it has no canards.
    avatar
    Stealthflanker

    Posts : 798
    Points : 882
    Join date : 2009-08-04
    Age : 29
    Location : Indonesia

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat May 24, 2014 10:49 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:9M100

    strange it has no canards.

    it might not need any.
    It can still however gain high maneuverability through TVC.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16281
    Points : 16912
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 25, 2014 12:05 pm

    It will have full thrust vector control so external control surfaces can be minimised.

    This means that the air launched model has few folding parts so it can be carried in internal bays or on multiple ejector racks on conventional pylons.

    It is also going to be a CIWS missile like Sea Ram for the Russian Navy and as a short range defence missile like TOR for the Army... in the vertical launcher it will likely use side thruster rockets to roll on to target like TOR... and may use side thruster rockets in the terminal phase of the attack to ensure a hit.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10215
    Points : 10703
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:02 am

    Datasheet in Russian

    avatar
    Mike E

    Posts : 2763
    Points : 2813
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:13 am



    This picture makes it look like the Vityaz could carry up to 48 9M100 missiles! Assuming it can hold 4 per "cell" and there are 12 cells... I need confirmation that this is true, that is where you guys come in. If this is true, the Vityaz could hold something like 16 9M100s and 8 of the larger 9M96 missiles.
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:00 am

    Mike E wrote:This picture makes it look like the Vityaz could carry up to 48 9M100 missiles! Assuming it can hold 4 per "cell" and there are 12 cells... I need confirmation that this is true, that is where you guys come in. If this is true, the Vityaz could hold something like 16 9M100s and 8 of the larger 9M96 missiles.

    The TEL for the variant of Vityaz' that was publicly displayed can technically carry 12 missiles of the 9M96 family, 48 missiles of the 9M100 family, a combination of these, or ...

    What they would tactically do is a different matter.
    avatar
    Mike E

    Posts : 2763
    Points : 2813
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:31 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Mike E wrote:This picture makes it look like the Vityaz could carry up to 48 9M100 missiles! Assuming it can hold 4 per "cell" and there are 12 cells... I need confirmation that this is true, that is where you guys come in. If this is true, the Vityaz could hold something like 16 9M100s and 8 of the larger 9M96 missiles.

    The TEL for the variant of Vityaz' that was publicly displayed can technically carry 12 missiles of the 9M96 family, 48 missiles of the 9M100 family, a combination of these, or ...

    What they would tactically do is a different matter.

    Thanks!!! I wonder if the Vityaz batteries will even need Pantsirs to defend them (Noticed how I said need versus have.). I guess it depends on the amount of 9M100s held...

     - I hate to ask for something, but.... Do you have any good sources on the 9M100 missile? I can't find much on it...
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:40 am

    Mike E wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Mike E wrote:This picture makes it look like the Vityaz could carry up to 48 9M100 missiles! Assuming it can hold 4 per "cell" and there are 12 cells... I need confirmation that this is true, that is where you guys come in. If this is true, the Vityaz could hold something like 16 9M100s and 8 of the larger 9M96 missiles.

    The TEL for the variant of Vityaz' that was publicly displayed can technically carry 12 missiles of the 9M96 family, 48 missiles of the 9M100 family, a combination of these, or ...

    What they would tactically do is a different matter.

    Thanks!!! I wonder if the Vityaz batteries will even need Pantsirs to defend them (Noticed how I said need versus have.). I guess it depends on the amount of 9M100s held...

    I agree with you. Actually the 9M96 alone is capable of fully defending the battery. The role of Pantsir' in PVO is not to defend the PVO assets (that, of course, is a secondary/tertiary role); Pantsir's primary role is to provide three more tiers of defense, with its longer-ranged family of missiles, with its shorter-ranged family of missiles, and with its guns. What Pantsir' is really offering is resource/cost optimization.

    Mike E wrote:I hate to ask for something, but.... Do you have any good sources on the 9M100 missile? I can't find much on it...

    Other than some pictures of the 9M100 that I have posted on this thread or maybe elsewhere on this forum (all 6 pictures that I have), I really haven't seen much more on the topic.

    I have read (in a magazine, maybe Jane's or Airforces Monthly) that it's 125 mm in diameter. The length is around 3 meters. I am sure there would be infinite (approximately) different models of it.


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total
    avatar
    Mike E

    Posts : 2763
    Points : 2813
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Mike E on Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:50 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Mike E wrote:This picture makes it look like the Vityaz could carry up to 48 9M100 missiles! Assuming it can hold 4 per "cell" and there are 12 cells... I need confirmation that this is true, that is where you guys come in. If this is true, the Vityaz could hold something like 16 9M100s and 8 of the larger 9M96 missiles.

    The TEL for the variant of Vityaz' that was publicly displayed can technically carry 12 missiles of the 9M96 family, 48 missiles of the 9M100 family, a combination of these, or ...

    What they would tactically do is a different matter.

    Thanks!!! I wonder if the Vityaz batteries will even need Pantsirs to defend them (Noticed how I said need versus have.). I guess it depends on the amount of 9M100s held...

    I agree with you. Actually the 9M96 alone is capable of fully defending the battery. The role of Pantsir' in PVO is not to defend the PVO assets (that, of course, is a secondary/tertiary role); Pantsir's primary role is two provide three more tiers of defense, with its longer-ranged missile, with its shorter-ranged missile, and with its guns.

    Mike E wrote:I hate to ask for something, but.... Do you have any good sources on the 9M100 missile? I can't find much on it...

    Other than some pictures of the 9M100 that I have posted on this thread or maybe elsewhere on this forum (all 6 pictures that I have), I really haven't seen much more on the topic.

    I have read (in a magazine, maybe Jane's or Airforces Monthly) that it's 125 mm in diameter. The length is around 3 meters. I am sure there would be infinite (approximately) different models of it.

     - I also agree, but (at least to myself) having the 9M100 (even just a couple) is valuable if the threat is within 5 or so kilometers. (Like having the Pantsir in the first place, as you said, it is nice having yet another tier of defense. Also, I would think that the 9M100 is cheaper than the 9M96 family of missiles.) Having the 9M96 + Pantsir and its weapons + 9M100 = "no-fly zone".

     - Thank you for answering that question! The 9M100 seems like a rather 'secretive" missile, and I expect that magazines would have the most info.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Vityaz SAM System

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:21 am