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    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

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    Russian Patriot

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    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Russian Patriot on Wed May 26, 2010 8:46 pm

    Russia to test new model of Kalashnikov assault rifle in 2011

    RIA Novosti

    16:5725/05/2010 MOSCOW, May 25 (RIA Novosti) - State tests of the new model of Kalashnikov automatic rifles will be held in Russia next year, Izhmash Director General Vladimir Grodetsky said on Tuesday.

    The new model of the legendary assault rifle, the AK-200, is based on the AK-74M and differs in weight (3.8 kilograms/8.4 lbs vs. 3.3 kilograms/7.3 lbs) and the magazine capacity (30, 50, 60 rounds vs. 30).
    The AK-74, a developed version of the Kalashnikov rifle's first model, the AK-47, was introduced in 1974 and used by the Soviet forces during the Afghanistan conflict.

    The AK-47 was originally created by Mikhail Kalashnikov, who as a WWII soldier was inspired to design the weapon after being wounded in 1941. While his first attempts were unsuccessful, he was given a position in weapons development, and by 1947 he had perfected his masterpiece.

    Since then, the AK-47 has become the most widespread and famous assault rifle. Used by some 50 armies around the world, as well as countless urban guerrilla movements, it is also featured on the flag of Mozambique.

    Kalashnikov received Russia's highest honorary title on his 90th birthday last November. Accepting the award, Kalashnikov voiced regret that his creation, the world's most widely used rifle, has been often misused.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev described the AK-47 at the ceremony as "an excellent model of Russian weaponry" and "a national brand that makes each citizen proud."

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100525-rianovosti02.htm
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 27, 2010 4:51 am

    I am guessing the extra weight is due to the larger ammo capacity?

    Wonder if it has a balanced recoil mechanism like the AK-107 and 108?

    Also wonder if it might be a bullpup design like the ADS, though the ADS is a KBP design as is the A-91M rifle it is based on.

    The news on this page with lots of very dark uninforming pictures suggests it will not be a bullpup design..

    http://www.izhmash.ru/rus/news/250510.shtml

    ...and now that I look at them closely I think that the second image is a shotgun variant, and that other rifles pictured include an SVDS with a suppressor and other weapons rather than one particular new rifle.

    Perhaps it will be the AK-200 series, a replacement for the AK-100 series that updated the AKM rifles to AK-74M standard and introduced 5.56mm calibre models as well as introducing a new carbine variant of each calibre that had a shorter barrel but not as short as the AKS-74U.

    Perhaps this new series (AK-200) adds in sniper rifles and light machineguns (the RPK-201 was the RPK-74M in 5.56mm NATO to compliment the 5.56mm AK-100 series rifle and carbine) to make a full family of Russian and western calibre options with options to use western and Russian sights and gear with siderails and picatinny rails for all the stuff to hang from your weapon.

    If they make a 7.62 x 51mm Pecheneg then that could be added to the family as well, so you could have assault rifles, carbine versions of the assault rifles, LMG versions of the assault rifles, sniper rifles in two or more calibres, Medium machineguns in two calibres and automatic military shotguns as a pretty comprehensive family... especially if they include the Bizon SMG and the Vityaz SMGs to the family as they are both based directly on the AK design too.

    The problem here is of course... what is there to test if the Russian Army is going to stick with the 5.45mm calibre then except for a few extra weapon rails there is not much new for the bog standard AK-74M.

    On the link above it mentions the sniper rifles SV-98, SV-99, and SV-338, now I know the SV-98 is a 7.62 x 54Rmm rifle that is a bolt action, while the SV-99 is the rifle sold as Sobol, and is a .22lr calibre rifle with a biathlon type action, but has anyone got any info on the SV-338? Is it a SV-98 enlarged for the 338 round?

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu May 27, 2010 9:16 am

    This is the one from AK-200 series looks like a preproduction model



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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 27, 2010 12:45 pm

    In that lower picture from Austin it looks like it does have a balanced recoil type gas system, which seems to extend to near the muzzle while what appears to be the front iron sight is set well back...

    Very strange.
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu May 27, 2010 11:41 pm

    Austin wrote:This is the one from AK-200 series looks like a preproduction model




    Thank you for photos! Cool
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu May 27, 2010 11:58 pm

    Legendary Kalashnikov assault rifle: History and prospects

    RIA Novosti

    21:2926/05/2010 MOSCOW. (Ilya Kramnik, RIA Novosti military commentator) - The Russian armed forces will continue using firearms based on the assault rifle Mikhail Kalashnikov designed in 1947. Vladimir Gorodetsky, director of the Urals-based Izhevsk Mechanical Plant (Izhmash), which produces the legendary assault rifles, told this to the media on May 25.

    Next year, the Defense Ministry will start testing a new model of Kalashnikov, the AK-200. The new model is lighter than its predecessor and has a more ergonomic design. However, the total weight of the device will be 3.8 kg (up from 3.3 kg), due to additional equipment, including a scope sight and a target-marking laser.

    Do these improvements meet the current needs of the Russian army, or modern fighting practices more broadly? To answer this question, one needs to study complaints made about the most widely used and distributed military firearm in history.

    1. Lower precision in single shot fire compared to similar Western models and noticeable climb in fully automatic fire, especially with the 7.62 mm version.

    2. Difficulty in installing modern scope sights.

    3. Non-ergonomic handle.

    4. Obsolete open-barrel sight.

    Most of the precision problems in basic AK models have been resolved by improving the quality of mass-produced rifles and ammunition, analysts say. Sometimes there can be a great difference between different Kalashnikovs of the same model but made by different producers in different countries because of production quality, components and ammunition.

    As for the climb and recoil problems, they stem from details in the design itself; correcting those would require structural improvements, at least as significant as in the AK 107/108 versions, where the recoil is weaker due to its more balanced automatic mechanism. Such changes would eventually require designers to generate a whole new design concept for the firearm, which is impossible in the current economic situation.

    Another option would be to use new recoil control devices (compensators).

    The difficulty of installing scopes is due to the receiver cover's design: optical sights cannot be attached to it. The sights, fitted with a Picatinny attachment, would need to be adjusted whenever the cover is lifted or replaced.

    Until recently, the sights were fitted to Kalashnikovs using a bracket on the left side of the receiver, significantly limiting the range of sights that could be used. The Picatinny gas tube attachment was introduced for the AK-200 series to solve this problem and the receiver cover was also improved. It is hinged to the receiver at the front and flips up, increasing its overall rigidity. Picatinny rails compatible with a range of optical and collimator sights can be installed on the rigid receiver.

    Many professionals recognize the Kalashnikov's original open barrel sight as obsolete. Other experts argue that it is quite effective in open combat and only requires minor improvements.

    Overall, the AK-200 series is a significant upgrade of the basic rifle, and the improvements made have not required a dramatic upgrade in production lines.

    Russia's Interior Ministry and Federal Security Service are already buying small batches of new series firearms. Commercial production has to wait until the Defense Ministry's tests are complete. If the AK-200 goes into production, it would mean Russia joining the international trend towards improving existing models rather than re-inventing "the firearms of tomorrow," which saw only limited progress. Basic models can be upgraded by ergonomic design and added cutting-edge equipment.

    Russia is in a better position than other countries as it escaped all those "firearms of tomorrow" projects thanks to events of the past 20 years.

    The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100526-rianovosti04.htm
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 28, 2010 1:44 am

    So it is just making the AK-74 more like an M4... how boring.

    The issue with the rail mount system is amusing, only western stuff will fit for the moment so what they are saying is they want to fit western stuff to their rifles.
    Russian scopes have fitted on the side rail for decades now without problems, but now they want to accessorise their rifles with western bling like torches and front grips.

    Would have been more impressed if they developed their own system that included attachable torches and scopes and lasers etc.

    Look at the innovation with the under barrel grenade launcher, that just clips on to pretty much any AK like a bayonette and clips off just as quickly.

    They say that an expensive fundamental change that will dramatically improve performance is not affordable, so why bother with the fanfare about such a cosmetic change. Just mass produce those 50 and 60 round mags and that is the main improvement.

    What is your opinion on this Vlad?
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:39 am

    You can see the AK-200 clearly in this video:

    http://www youtube.com/watch?v=jXONA4YZX0A

    Note add a dot between www and you to make the link work.

    The weapon is visible for about 10 seconds from about 1 minute 50 onwards.

    It has a picatinny rail on top from the rear of the receiver right to the front of the gas tube and presumably another rail below the front stock with a front grip attached with a light on it. The lump on the top rail above the lower grip is a folded down iron sight and at the very rear of the top of the receiver is a small scope. Based on what Russian Patriot has posted here I would expect a folding peep sight under or near the rear scope that can be used when the rear scope is not fitted.
    It appears to have a triangular folding rear stock, but details like the safety are hard to see. I can't tell if it has a burst mode or if it is just safe/single shot/and full auto.
    The 60 round mag is interesting too.
    I guess all the Russian makers of optics and accessories are going to have to make new models of their scopes for this new design.

    There is talk of the 30 round, the 50 round and a 60 round mag, presumably the latter are quad stack mags. I wonder if they applied the same to the 45 round mag of the RPK-75 to create a 90 round mag?
    That 90 round mag would look cool on an AKS-74U... Smile
    Anybody know what happened to a planned flat pan 90 round mag for the RPK-74 that has the rounds lying flat in a horizontal flat pan shaped magazine? That would be much better because the 45 round mag is long and could monopod in many situations.

    BTW I would expect the rear receiver is hinged like the AKS-74U was years ago, but to make the rear receiver more rigid they probably have not used the normal recoil spring attached button, but a latch like on the SVD to secure the rear receiver.
    The more things change the more they stay the same.
    I wonder if they will need a new GP-25/-30/-34 grenade launcher design to fit the new rail system.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:40 am

    I have been told one of the key reason why AK did not make in big numbers in Indian SF is because it lacked picatinny rail . so AK-200 having it is a welcome change.

    Is it true that the newer AK-100 model did not make a big sucess like the older AK-47 and AK-74 series ? Was there any issue in adopting AK-100 series ?

    It seems AK-47 and 74 remains a weapons of choice for terrorist world over and not the new AK-100 series.

    Another video of AK-200 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXONA4YZX0A
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:14 am

    I have been told one of the key reason why AK did not make in big numbers in Indian SF is because it lacked picatinny rail . so AK-200 having it is a welcome change.

    The picatinny rail is a US mounting system that western makers of accessories create products for. AK-74M uses a sideplate on the receiver for scopes and an extra rear mounted bayonet lug for mounting its under barrel grenade launcher.

    AFAIK the AK-200 is supposed to be a low cost upgrade of the AK-74M for Russian service, so I think it makes little sense to fit such a weapon with a rail system to use foreign accessories. It is kinda like the US making their next assault rifle compatible with AK magazines because they are better made and cheaper than the cheap M16 mags.

    I guess now that it has been revealed that Russian optics and accessories makers have seen it they will start making new systems for the new rail system and now they can sell such equipment internationally too.

    Is it true that the newer AK-100 model did not make a big sucess like the older AK-47 and AK-74 series ? Was there any issue in adopting AK-100 series ?

    As far as I know the AK-100 series has been selling well. Venezuela alone bought a factory to make 100,000 AK-103s (in 7.62 x 39mm) and also a factory to make the ammo too. Vlad said they are much better made and more accurate than older rifles, and he should know.
    The AK-100 series rifle with a standard barrel length in 5.45mm is the AK-74M which is the current standard Russian service rifle. I have no idea about the AK-105 with a shorter barrel in the same calibre, but for paratroopers and troops from APCs the smaller size weapons would be useful, while the crews of the vehicles will probably continue to use AKS-74Us as an even more compact weapon that is for self defence rather than normal use so the very short barrel and lack of accurate range wont be a problem.

    It seems AK-47 and 74 remains a weapons of choice for terrorist world over and not the new AK-100 series.

    Ummm... excuse me... what?

    Plenty of terrorist organisations throughout central and south America use M16s.
    Kurdish terrorists in Turkey often use HK G3s.

    The AK series is popular because it is available and it is cheap and it gets the job done.
    The new AK-100 series is not as cheap, but is more effective for a properly trained soldier. There are over 100 million AKs floating around the place with the vast majority being older models. When the Soviets were in Afghanistan the vast majority of AKs in the hands of the terrorists were supplied by the CIA and they were either from captured Arab sources via Israel or they were purchased from China. China made a fortune out of that war. The CIA would buy billions of rounds and hundreds of thousands of rifles and not care what happened to them. It is no surprise that such weapons pop up so often.

    Regarding the AK-200 it seems to me that this is a stopgap till something revolutionary comes along that is worth the cost of a brand new design. The deployment of ADS rifles to the VDV and one assumes perhaps the Russian Navy is more interesting to me. Just looking at the video of the AK-200 I would guess that it has a balanced recoil system simply because that would not change the design too much and would not make operation of the weapon too different.
    I think the peep Iron sights will be a bit of a problem... I personally prefer the older iron sight arrangement.

    There is talk of Iraq wanting Russian small arms so I would expect a signficant order for AKs from them at some stage, probably including an initial large order of rifles and a factory to make more to meet their needs.
    I would expect at some stage Afghanistan will do the same.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:30 am

    Picatinny rail would mean the options to attach many western system exist , India has the habit of buying some base Russian system and adding western equipment to it to suite its needs. So this is really good news for export prospects for AK-200.

    Indian SF has right now standardised mostly on Israel Tavor.

    Yeah the CIA created most of the mess that we today and now they are hunting those who were fed by them in 70's,80's , call it change of fortune or officially "War On Terror"
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:18 pm

    And I agree that it makes sense for AKs that are to be exported.
    But unless the Army is going on an accessory shopping binge making the next standard AK compatible with western extras seems a little strange, unless they have forewarned all the Russian makers of parts that they were going to do this.

    Or perhaps they are making their own extras and want the Russian Army to buy these.

    In the long term I think it would be good for Russian kit makers because their presumably cheaper products could be sold on the western market without adapters etc.

    Afghanistan and the Soviet Union were friendly countries largely leaving each other alone, till the CIA decided to interfere. The Afghans prefer AKs because that is what they were trained with when they were in the army. A few coups and the threat of a CIA base in Afghanistan led to a conflict that continues to this day.
    The real problem for Russia is that more poppies are grown in Afghanistan than the rest of the world combined. Those Afghan farmers are producing raw opium at an enormous rate and no one is stopping them. It seems gun battles in Jamaica to get drug lords is OK with the US, but the farmers that grow more raw opium in a year than that guy has seen in 10 years are ignored... because the US doesn't care about stability in Jamaica, but in Afghanistan they want to keep everyone happy it seems. After 1989 when the Soviets withdrew they wouldn't have cared either and poppy fields would have been bombed if they could be bothered. Now they have troops there.
    When they leave and the Taleban take over again the poppy fields will be burned.
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:33 am

    It seems this new weapon is called SP-3.

    Now being a stupid foreigner that doesn't speak or read Russian, I do know the P in a Hind designation means that it is cannon armed, so the P in this designation might also stand for cannon. The S in Soviet and Russian small arms usually means sniper, as in SVD and SV-98 etc etc, but I would doubt they would use such a weapon against a single person target as it would be overkill.
    It is either an anti material weapon or a support weapon, but considering they already have the AGS-30, which with the GPD-30 grenades already has a range of over 2km that can fire in bursts and is already deployed I would think this SP-3 is something different.
    The main difference would be time of flight of the projectiles at max range, with the SP-3s rounds reaching 2km in about 3-4 seconds and the AGS-30s rounds reaching in maybe 15 or 20 seconds, and the kinetic power will also be quite different, with 30 x 165mm rounds in APDS penetrating 20mm steel armour at about 2km, while the AGS-30 would have little kinetic energy a shaped charge version might penetrate 40-50mm for a charge of that calibre.

    The fact that it is called SP-3 is interesting too, it suggests earlier models, perhaps 23 x 115mm or 23 x 152mm depending on what the purpose of the system is.

    Perhaps it is the cannon equivelent of the special forces portable single shot 122mm grad rocket launcher. You carry it in, set it up, fire a few decisive shots (ie into the sides of a Patriot missile box to damage the missile inside) from the safety of 2km from the target and then leave.

    Of course it would probably be easier and cheaper to carry in a METIS-M launcher and a couple of missiles to have both guided accuracy and also more punch on target.

    Edit:
    I am thinking now that it is probably a portable anti MRAP weapon for special forces.


    Last edited by GarryB on Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  NationalRus on Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:27 pm

    looks like a upgradet AK-74, don't expect any super weapon with smart bullets, well "at last" it sems to have a balanced recoil mechanism
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:54 am

    With all the rails on it it just looks like this:

    http://world.guns.ru/assault/as106-e.htm

    but with a double capacity mag and a triangular buttstock and of course different muzzle break.

    I guess all those things like Bayonettes and underbarrel grenade launchers and existing Russian and Soviet scopes will have to be redesigned to fit the Piccatinny system.

    Maybe a GP-40 grenade launcher will be developed that can also be easily fitted to western weapons too... perhaps a redevelopment of the GP-34.
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    Russian army rifles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:21 pm

    Lots of info on this site:

    world.guns.ru

    It includes lots of information about prototype rifles that were tested and what won and lost and why.

    The balanced recoil rifles are actually not new and were tested in the competition to replace the AKM (which was eventually won by the AK-74). The balanced recoil weapons like the AEK-971 improved battlefield performance but the AK-74 was basically an AKM adapted to the new calibre and was simpler and cheaper and production capacity was available and the troops were used to operating it and maintaining it, so despite the fact that the balanced recoil rifles were better in single shot and full auto they lost and the AK-74 won.

    The last competition post cold war in the 1990s the focus was on battlefield performance accuracy and kill probability so the AN-94 won despite having totally different iron sights (peep sights) and a very complicated internal arrangement and firing method. With pulley cables and a moving barrel I would suspect they are a little more complicated than the AK-74.
    The cost and complication has meant it is really only a specialist weapon (AN-94) and the full solution is likely to be the AK-200 which was shown briefly a short while back.
    The AK-200 follows the latest trend of take the existing assault rifle and remove the iron sights and make the entire top, the bottom forearm and the sides of the forearm Picatinny rails for mounting everything everywhere.
    Just looking at the prototype they seem to have gone for the balanced recoil mechanism and Iron sights can be attached to the rail on top, with a standard AK-74 muzzle brake and folding stock and what appears to be a standard bayonet lug it should mean that Russian military companies making optics and toys for their rifles can also sell their wares without adaptation to westerners as well which should be good.
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Kysusha on Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:21 am

    I understand the AN94 will not be going into serial production. Production costs were identified as a major barrier. Instead, work will be conducted on the AK100 series to modernise it. Someone may have more up-to-date information on this.
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:51 am

    All this talk about the AK-200 seems to suggest that the An94 will be a specialist weapon.
    With a moving barrel and pulley system with wires etc it sounds rather complicated to me, though by firing two rounds rather quickly the hit probability is probably increased by a statistically significant amount I would think it would only be issued to units with a high level of training to maintain and use it effectively.
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Kysusha on Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:33 am

    GarryB wrote:All this talk about the AK-200 seems to suggest that the An94 will be a specialist weapon.
    With a moving barrel and pulley system with wires etc it sounds rather complicated to me, though by firing two rounds rather quickly the hit probability is probably increased by a statistically significant amount I would think it would only be issued to units with a high level of training to maintain and use it effectively.

    The AN94 has a phenominal cyclic rate - sure beats the "double tap" we had to do with the SLR's. However, from what I have read, the benefits of the system do not out-weigh the very high production costs and there is also the higher maintenance requirements of the more complicated system. {Soldier training, Armourer, spares inventory et al.]. The percieved benefits just don't stack up - I test fired the Ak100 series in 2001, when I was in Russia and I'd be happy enough to use it.
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:21 am

    Yup, the design means that the first two rounds are fired at a cyclic rate of over 1,800rpm, but the rounds fired after the second shot are fired at a normal rate of about 600 rpm. From memory there was the option to fire 2 round bursts or 3 round bursts or single shot or full auto.
    Some on the net suggest the purpose is to increase lethality by getting two hits, or by defeating body armour by getting two bullets to go through the same hole.
    In actual fact even at very short range the bullets don't hit the same point.

    This rifle will likely put two rounds within about 10-15cm of the first round at normal battlefield ranges and is actually intended to improve hit probability by putting a second round close to the first round that if you aimed properly if the target moved the second round has a chance of hitting them.

    BTW I am seriously jealous of you getting the opportunity to fire the AK-100 series.

    From what I can deduce from the pictures released of the AK-200 it looks like they have adopted the balanced recoil system of the AK-107 and AK-108, which should greatly improve controllability when firing bursts, and the piccatinny rails all over it should be good for Russian gadget makers... they should now be able to undercut western makers and the market should get flooded with tacticrap so it will be a buyers market.
    I think the ADS looks rather cool too and hope it is adopted by the Russian Navy and VDV.
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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  Kysusha on Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:53 am

    Yeah, basically it is hit probablity - when we were undergoing Vietnam era training we did what was called - "double tap" with the 7.62 x 51 SLR's. This involved pulling the trigger as fast as you could for two shots - starting low with your point of aim.  The concept being that the recoil lifted the second shot and as it was jungle warfare, it was hoped that one of the two would at least get through. I felt very confident with the SLR, it would get through small trees but the M16 was a piece of Cr*p. The 55gn projectile just didn't have it.

    You would be very surprised at how accurate you could be with the SLR and double tap - I used to fold down the rear leaf sight, put a white chalk line along the wooden fore-end and a white chalk line on each of the fore-sight guards. You would then use it rather like a shotgun - both eyes open and frame the target in the chalk lines - starting with a shot heading for the crotch - the second round usually hit in the chest. This was jungle-lane shooting and ranges were probably from 2 metres to 20 metres. First to fire was the winner!

    The Russian 5.45 x 39 round is very good - the 60gn Projectile has great sectional density and very good penetration. However, interestingly enough, I detect a move back to the 30 cal [or similar] like the Yanks with their 6.8mm. The Brits had it right back in the early 1950's with the .280 round, but Yank pressure forced the 30 cal option - then the 5.56mm and now finally, a move back to what the  Brits originaly suggested.  

    But you're right - hit probablity was the concept behind the very fast burst; and yes again - they don't go into the same hole!


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    An-94 and AK-200

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:39 am

    I had read that those soldiers that preferred the 7.62 x 39mm AKs did so because of the penetration and lack of deflection on the way to the target and that the 158 grain AK ammo was popular for its hitting power over the 122 grain bullets.

    I agree the 5.45mm bullet is a very good shape with long narrow projectiles of very low drag coefficient. I remember a US company making M16 uppers in that calibre for longer range shooting because the AK round retained velocity better and when fired from a 20 inch barrel its velocity was not that different from the 5.56 at the muzzle but it retained energy better and of course will tumble at any speed or distance to lethality is higher at longer range than the 5.56.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:18 am

    Had a bit of spare time and have put together a rough photoshop of what the AK-200 looked like to me.

    Now I know it isn't perfect because I made it up from several different rifle photos, but I think the basic layout is right, though the pistol grip looks too small to me as the one in the video seemed very large and might have had a bipod inside it.



    And yes I know the rifle in the video had a metal rectangular folding buttstock, but then so did the first AKS-74's.
    As you can see I have put a simple small cheap scope with a front iron sight mounted on the picatinny rail. For use without the scope a rear Iron sight would fold up or be attached.
    Expect a new 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher to be designed with picatinny attachment, which should allow NATO forces with picatinny rails all over their rifles attach and use the new GP-3x grenade launcher too. Certainly could be less cumbersome than the M203 for NATO countries.
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    IronsightSniper

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  IronsightSniper on Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:54 am

    Trying to be tacticool?


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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:41 pm

    Nah, I hate that tacticrap Sh!t they do to otherwise nice rifles.

    A scope and a suppressor is all you need... ie


    from:
    http://www.russiadefence.net/military-multimedia-f60/russian-military-photos-t951.htm

    This however is my impression of what the AK-200 will look like based on blurry images of stills from videos we have seen so far.

    From the vid it is clear they are adopting picatinny rails along the entire top of the rifle with a folding presumably removable front and rear iron sight.
    I think the primary standard issue sight will be some relatively cheap generic system that can have night vision added by putting a relevant optic in front of the standard issue scope.

    Goals for their future soldier program (as shown by a very nice article Austin posted a link to elsewhere on this site) their goals are to make scopes standard and not just basic ones like a red dot optic, but to have some sort of range finding capacity with some sort of ballistics mechanism so the average soldier can simple aim and fire with a very good chance of hitting the target. (See link posted by Austin... search FELIN or something.)

    The idea of adopting picatinny rails I at first rejected, but now I think it is a good idea. It means that Russian optics makers now have a western market for their products without needing adapters etc. It also means Russian soldiers can now access a much wider range of tacticrap if they want it.

    Not shown is the new double stack 60 round mag.

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    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns: Discussion

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