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    Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

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    GarryB

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    Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:15 am

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110328/163247668.html

    It seems that the "half SMERCH" that is a 6 launch tube 300mm rocket system on a lighter truck than that used with SMERCH is going to replace the 122mm Grad.

    I guess that makes sense... I was thinking they would probably be used in light and medium brigades, which is probably what they are doing... so if they use them in the light and medium brigades there is no need for the lighter Grad vehicles I guess.

    Shame really because the late model Grad rockets seemed quite capable... 30-40km range and the lack of payload of each rocket was more than made up for with 40 rockets per vehicle.

    Still just having one artillery rocket type makes sense too.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 11, 2012 9:33 pm

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/223569.html


    That ain't Tornado.

    Media confused Tornado with modernized Grad. Tornado has not yet been delivered to units.
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    TheArmenian

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    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:50 am

    By the way the range of Tornado-S (Smerch replacement) is said to be 200 km.

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:22 am

    By the way the range of Tornado-S (Smerch replacement) is said to be 200 km.


    Ehm....not.


    It actually said that ,already today ,them managed to give to ammunitions of Smerch system a range of 200 km.

    It is a statement released only to render the idea of the level of improvement in range that is possible to achieve (with the application of those domestic up to date technological solutions even to existing systems) with MLRS in this caliber.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:09 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    By the way the range of Tornado-S (Smerch replacement) is said to be 200 km.


    Ehm....not.


    It actually said that ,already today ,them managed to give to ammunitions of Smerch system a range of 200 km.

    It is a statement released only to render the idea of the level of improvement in range that is possible to achieve (with the application of those domestic up to date technological solutions even to existing systems) with MLRS in this caliber.

    Thanks for the correction.
    I hope the extra range is achieved without reducing the size of the warhead.

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:16 pm



    Thanks for the correction.

    It is simply a clarification and also one i root for particularly Wink


    I have several times stressed out that almost the totality of parametrical figures circulating on public accessible media about Russian weaponry (even on producer's sites or brochures... Wink ) are always refered to export versions of those systems or very outdated versions of the same systems , for which the revelation of the specifics don't represent anymore a damage or effective reduction of theirs potential, and tactical surprise's edge, in an eventual operational employment against a major enemy.

    In the past years i was literally amused to read, in silence, the comical theories and auto-referential "analysis" (often by part of subjects even selling themselves as experts Laughing ) proposing systems comparisons or tactical scenarios where the crushing advantages in : speed, manoeuvrability, target designation, independent adaptive/cooperative attack profile and inbuilt ECCM measures of Russian cruise missiles like “Kaliber” or “Oniks was.....supposedly....“counterbalanced” by the huge range difference boasted by Western cruise missiles like TLAM-C/D 1200/1600 km against the only...300 km....of Kaliber and Oniks Razz Razz

    The same phenomenon happened with the supposed range of BM-30 and its competitors : BM-30 was since its introduction ,by a very wide margin, the most advanced and devastating MLRS worldwide in its category.
    In the latest years ,however, in several western publications or by part of mercenary journalists - profusely paid to "bash" and tarnish anywhere possible (even plainly subverting cold parameters !) the reputation of Russian weapons to break its link with historical friend Nations ,such as India - the....supposed....range of "Smerch" has been attacked from any direction (at example claiming that the latest version of its Chinese copied version -the PHL03- had much greater engagement range (140 km) than the up to date original in Russian ; naturally Reality is very far from those highly biased and vested positions.


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    TR1

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  TR1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:15 am

    Unfortunately as in many cases, I have to ask the question: do any of the Smerch units actually have the extended range munitions?

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:38 pm



    Unfortunately as in many cases, I have to ask the question: do any of the Smerch units actually have the extended range munitions?


    Try to ask to yourself the complementary question to this one (you will receive a response much more close to reality...):

    "How much units of 9A52 ,if any, remain today -2012- at still employ the original ammunition developed more than 20 years ago ?"


    Even more you could ask to yourself this other simple question:

    "The range figures i have found in all those years on FSUE "Splav" charts or in its same site (for not say Rosoboronexport's brochures... Wink ) ,and obviously reported in any public accesible media, has been ever representative of domestic version of those MLRS's rocket/missiles ?"

    If you want to aid yourself in finding a response you could try that : select any weapon of which ,at today, you are aware of any parametrical difference between the domestic and the export version and check what figure,between the two, is always reported on the maker's "official" site or charts..... Wink

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    TR1

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  TR1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:26 pm

    Of course - but the fact remains- Russian industry has had no problem making innovative and excellent weapons and munitions, that have barely seen actually unit delivery- or have been delivered in anemic numbers. See tank ammunition, precision munitions in AF units, precision artillery rounds, AAMs etc etc.

    I can't help but to remain unconvinced 200km munitions are in any widespread service.

    I would love to be proved wrong!

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:07 am



    Of course - but the fact remains- Russian industry has had no problem making innovative and excellent weapons and munitions, that have barely seen actually unit delivery- or have been delivered in anemic numbers. See tank ammunition, precision munitions in AF units, precision artillery rounds, AAMs etc etc.

    I can't help but to remain unconvinced 200km munitions are in any widespread service.


    Exist only two main factors contributing to the....at least apparent....scarce ,widespread presence of up-to-date ammunitions among Russian Army and Air Force units in PEACETIME stance :

    1) A truly IMMNESE amount of ammunitions (literally of any type and for any branch of the Armed Forces) inherited from URSS, majority of which with a significative residual operative live and the number and characteristics of which represent still today even an huge overkill against virtually all likely conventional enemy.

    2) The strongly rooted habit (also that inherited from cardinal principles of Soviet Military Doctrine) at information's corruption and denial , through or the controled "leaks" to opposing sides of staged technical documentation or downgraded specimens (in URSS times the so called monkey models) or the direct subtraction ,until possible, from enemy Intel's echelons even of the same physical specimens of the most critical systems (and therefore theirs CONOPS and strong/weak points).


    On the 2008 conflict, for example, has been wrote tons of articles and books but ,up to this time, complementary interests from both parts - Western analysts and Institutions , frustrated by the clamorous Intel's debacle interested ,at least ,in capitalize the instance for attack and attempt to tarnish, as usual, Russian Military's name Razz ,while on the Russian side not only negate to NATO's observers ANY type of information on ANY type of up-to date weaponry or strategic and tactical concept of operations but also promote toward internal public opinion the roundness of the ongoing ,military reform and future substantial increase of military spending Wink - has prevented an honest ,realistic analysis to be conducted .




    This conflict ,that we must never forget, was won in only 5 days and at very TRIVIAL costs (you can only image the length and the stellar costs involved if the same conflict would have been conducted by NATO ; only the Air Campaign would have encompassed more than a month and half of operations Laughing ) ; was a clear example of operation attentively prepared and executed mantaining as central requirement systematic information denial toward NATO's observers and ELINT units preset in the theatre, employing not only almost exclusively the most outdated weaponry available to the divisons in the area but limiting or even avoiding completely any "sensible" EM emission (among the crew of the US Navy "aid ship" purposely prepared and sent to the Black Sea ,likely would be manifested ,in those days, a very high amount of cases of mental disorders and manic depressive syndromes Razz Razz Razz )


    In the meantime T-72B..... T-62 and even ....some T-55...was engaging Georgian ground forces, Russian Navy was destroying Georgian unities only with....P-120 Malakhit...and Russian aircraft avoided like hell the use even only of the most outdated versions of Kh-59 miissiles or KAB-L precision bomb series of which exist a stock pile more than sufficient to desroy several times all main military targets in both Europe and USA Smile


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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:13 am

    Yes those people on the internetz always claiming that it "took the whole russian army" to defeat "the tiny georgian armed forces" are absolutely hilarious Cool
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:29 pm

    Nice  thumbsup lots of info about the Smerch lite

    300mm fighting vehicle 9A52-4 "Smerch" (Lite version)
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:05 am

    Does that say 120km range?


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    TR1

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    Grad, Uragan, Smerch MRLS

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:20 am

    GarryB wrote:Does that say 120km range?

    Indeed.
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:09 pm

    Some related systems:


    Modernized Grad




    Modernized Grad




    Variant of Tornado-G(?)




    An experimental model of Grad with 56 launch tubes




    Prima (9K59) with 50 launch tubes(?) Seemingly one of the launch tubes is used for a different purpose.



    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Modernized Grad

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:28 pm

    Off Topic

    Prima (9K59)


















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    d_taddei2

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    BM-21 Grad a worthy mention

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:13 am

    Hi all, with the 9A52-4 Tornado now starting replace the BM-21 in Russian service i thought it would be worth a mention of the service the BM-21 has given Russia and various other countries. Although it will still be service for many years to come, with the replacement of it in Russian forces in a few years time the BM-21 will be sent into storage.

    The system yet pretty simple compaired to other systems out there the BM-21 has to be the most produced MLRS system ever(although i might be wrong please correct me if i am) and also must be the most widely used MLRS system in service today. I think reason for this must be down to its simplicity and cost, i am not sure of the exact cost but it must cheapest MLRS system on the market. The system has spawned many copies by other countries with their own various changes, but ultimately the design is the same. The cheap cost allows countries field a decent amount and the system is pretty effective and has a variety of different rockets (not sure if there ever did thermobaric anyone know if they did?). In my eyes this is up there with the likes of the T-55, T-72, BMP-1, BTR 60, Mi-8, Mi-24, Mig 21, Mig 29, which are all iconic and great pieces of equipment which made the soviet army and still to this day have a long legendary legacy. So here's to the BM-21 Grad and it entering the soviet military machine hall of fame.

    If anyone wants to put there thoughts on this it would be great.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:43 am

    You know you did a good design job when the replacement looks like the article it is replacing...

    On land and at sea the Grad did an excellent job... I am a little surprised there was no air launched model 122mm rocket... well there was a 5 shot 122mm rocket pod but it used an unrelated rocket AFAIK.

    Not particularly accurate... but it didn't need to be...

    Would have been useful for blunting enemy attacks, especially with later models with anti tank submunitions.

    It had a range of payloads and in early models 20km was a decent range, while later models achieved ranges of 36-40km.

    An excellent way of getting large amounts of HE and splinters on an area target rapidly.

    The same characteristic that would have made it ideal to deliver chemical or biological weapons...


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    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:You know you did a good design job when the replacement looks like the article it is replacing...

    On land and at sea the Grad did an excellent job... I am a little surprised there was no air launched model 122mm rocket... well there was a 5 shot 122mm rocket pod but it used an unrelated rocket AFAIK.

    Not particularly accurate... but it didn't need to be...

    Would have been useful for blunting enemy attacks, especially with later models with anti tank submunitions.

    It had a range of payloads and in early models 20km was a decent range, while later models achieved ranges of 36-40km.

    An excellent way of getting large amounts of HE and splinters on an area target rapidly.

    The same characteristic that would have made it ideal to deliver chemical or biological weapons...

    yeah i forgot to mention its uses on navel vessels, and your right the appearance is identical. Even today 36-40km is a pretty decent range when you consider the cost of BM-21 allows you to field more and using shooting and scooting tactics becomes very effective,

    interesting your mention on air launch theory, being totally out of the box, imagine a Russian type AC-130 armed with 40 tube rack on its belly Smile
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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:02 pm

    Russian artillery units to live-fire Grad rocket systems during drills in Urals, Siberia

    Artillery units are expected to use over 10,000 pieces of ammunition, mines, rockets and missiles of all types and classes

    MOSCOW, August 13. /TASS/. Artillery units of Russia’s Central Military District will live-fire Grad and Uragan multiple launch rocket systems at shooting ranges in the Orenburg and Chelyabinsk Regions in the Urals and the Kemerovo Region in southwest Siberia, the district’s press office reported on Thursday.

    Live-firing will be held as part of military drills of the district’s missile and artillery forces, which will also involve units with Iskander tactical missile systems, Tochka-U short-term range ballistic complexes, Msta-S self-propelled howitzers, mortars and anti-tank weapons.

    "Fire will be conducted against full-size targets imitating combat hardware and engineering fortifications," the district’s press office said.

    Artillery units are expected to use over 10,000 pieces of ammunition, mines, rockets and missiles of all types and classes.

    Overall, the exercises will involve more than 5,500 personnel and about 1,200 armaments and pieces of combat hardware.


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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:35 am



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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  franco on Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:17 am


    The new multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) “Uragan-1M” of a 220 mm caliber is entering service in Russia; its features are full automation and ability to use interchangeable packets of ammunition, First Deputy Director General of “Tecmash” concern (included in “Rostec”) Vladimir Tikhonov told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    The system is being developed by the Tula-located enterprise NPO “Splav” (included in “Tehmash”).

    “The MLRS “Uragan-1M” is entering service in Russia. State tests have been successfully completed. This is a modernization of well-established multiple rocket launchers “Uragan” of the previous generation. The main essence of modernization is the use of interchangeable packages, that is, the system will be bi-caliber, it will be able to use ammunition of a larger caliber”, – said Tikhonov.

    Does "use ammunition of a larger caliber" = 300mm. If so one system could replace both. For shorter ranges 220mm and 300mm for longer ranges. Would be an interesting system if so.
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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:24 am

    franco wrote:

    The new multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) “Uragan-1M” of a 220 mm caliber is entering service in Russia; its features are full automation and ability to use interchangeable packets of ammunition, First Deputy Director General of “Tecmash” concern (included in “Rostec”) Vladimir Tikhonov told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    The system is being developed by the Tula-located enterprise NPO “Splav” (included in “Tehmash”).

    “The MLRS “Uragan-1M” is entering service in Russia. State tests have been successfully completed. This is a modernization of well-established multiple rocket launchers “Uragan” of the previous generation. The main essence of modernization is the use of interchangeable packages, that is, the system will be bi-caliber, it will be able to use ammunition of a larger caliber”, – said Tikhonov.

    Does "use ammunition of a larger caliber" = 300mm. If so one system could replace both. For shorter ranges 220mm and 300mm for longer ranges. Would be an interesting system if so.

    Dual launcher is seems



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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:05 am

    So the new vehicle can use the rocket pods of the Uragan and Smerch...

    this is a good step as the Uragan had 16 tubes of 220mm calibre rockets, while Smerch had 12 tubes of 300mm calibre rockets.

    Grad has 40 tubes of 122mm rockets, while MLRS has 12 tubes of 227mm rockets.

    I suspect the future forces will combine the two heavier rocket vehicles in one vehicle that can be loaded with two pallets of either of the rocket types or combinations.

    It might even be able to carry the lighter calibre rockets too (122mm). which would make it rather more flexible.

    For situations where smaller vehicles are better then the new version of Grad could be the best option, but there was also a light version able to carry one pallet that could be used to.

    Will be interesting to see which way they go.


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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:02 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:

    The new multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) “Uragan-1M” of a 220 mm caliber is entering service in Russia; its features are full automation and ability to use interchangeable packets of ammunition, First Deputy Director General of “Tecmash” concern (included in “Rostec”) Vladimir Tikhonov told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    The system is being developed by the Tula-located enterprise NPO “Splav” (included in “Tehmash”).

    “The MLRS “Uragan-1M” is entering service in Russia. State tests have been successfully completed. This is a modernization of well-established multiple rocket launchers “Uragan” of the previous generation. The main essence of modernization is the use of interchangeable packages, that is, the system will be bi-caliber, it will be able to use ammunition of a larger caliber”, – said Tikhonov.

    Does "use ammunition of a larger caliber" = 300mm. If so one system could replace both. For shorter ranges 220mm and 300mm for longer ranges. Would be an interesting system if so.

    Dual launcher is seems



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    Re: Russian MRLS: Grad, Smerch, Uragan. TOS-1

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