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    Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

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    Russian Patriot

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    Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:01 am

    Russia deploys new missile system in Chechnya

    RIA Novosti

    11:51 14/12/2011 MOSCOW, December 14 (RIA Novosti) - A new missile system has been deployed in Russia’s Northern Caucasus republic of Chechnya, a senior military official said on Wednesday.

    The Barnaul-T system will be hooked up to Russia’s Glonass sat-nav system.

    “The new system makes for better coordination of the actions of missile defenses on all levels, and also increases their mobility and durability during battle,” Lt. Col. Oleg Kochetkov told reporters.

    The new system will track and coordinate information on airborne targets, Kochetkov added.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2011/space-111214-rianovosti01.htm
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    GarryB

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    Russia deploys new missile system in Chechnya

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 am

    Ahh, this is the Barnaul-T C4IR system for AD units.

    It will link up existing SAM and radar batteries and share data and air cover to make them work much more efficiently.

    It means if a BUK battery spots another Georgian UAV it can pass that data on to, say an OSA battery to engage using much cheaper missiles located closer to where the target is.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  medo on Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:47 am

    I have here some older pictures from Vitaly Kuzmin.




    This is portable radar 1L122-1 placed on MT-LBu and is part of Barnaul-T ASU.




    On this picture are 1L121 on the left and 1L122-2 on the right.




    1L122-2 radar is placed on hydraulic arm, which could lift it in higher position.




    This is another 1L122-2 radar, but there are rumors this is actually 1L123 radar.




    This is PPRU-M1-2 radar, which will replace old Dog ear radar.


    There are some new search radars for ground forces air defense units and the questions here are, which of those could be used as battery search radar for Tor-M2U. The other question is if any of those new radars will work with Barnaul-T on higher level, because 1L122-1 radar with 40 km range is good for MANPAD teams and Strela-10 systems, but for stronger SHORADs, like Tunguska, Tor or Pantsir, they will need radar with longer range. Also there is an option, that in brigade level they will use different radars (all three) in the same way as new Nebo-M will.




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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:22 pm

    The other question is if any of those new radars will work with Barnaul-T on higher level, because 1L122-1 radar with 40 km range is good for MANPAD teams and Strela-10 systems, but for stronger SHORADs, like Tunguska, Tor or Pantsir, they will need radar with longer range.

    I would think that the Barnaul-T system gathers in data from all sorts of local and area data sources, and having systems with ranges longer than 40km is not actually as useful as you might at first think.

    Having 40km range systems will allow you to collect relevant data around your battery HQ, but having a much longer range system will only give you longer range info about targets flying at medium and high altitude. Low flying targets will be as invisible to a 40km range radar as it would be to a 500km range radar because of the curvature of the earth.

    For most threats and allowing for its ability to engage HARMs I would think 40km is sufficient to get enough warning to defend what is being defended with TOR, and Pantsir-S1 radars turned off.

    For longer range threats BUK system radars will add to the picture too remember.

    BTW nice collection of pics Vitaly is a good photographer with access to lots of neat stuff.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  medo on Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:45 pm

    Barnaul-T is ASU, which work with air defense inside ground forces brigade (heavy, medium or light) and inside brigade you have air defense battalion. 1L122-1 radar with 40 km range is excellent to work with air defense batteries, who defend battalions inside brigade, but to work in battalion level and coordinate work of batteries, who defend battalions, you need radar with 80 - 100 km range, to cover the whole area in which your brigade is operating and also radars with longer range cover higher altitudes than shorter ones.

    It is quite logical, that Barnaul-T complex inside one ground forces brigade have at least one 80 km or 100 km range radar for battalion level and 4 1L122-1 40 km range radars in battery level together with similar numbers of command posts.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:59 am

    Surely at Brigade level they will also have BUK, which will not only have the longer range radar, but also the missiles to exploit the extra range.

    I wonder how the new Space and Air Defence Forces will cooperate with the land forces... surely they will share data on the air picture too?
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    medo

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  medo on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:02 am

    Hm, good question about Buk. In past they were operating in air defense brigade level, so it means ground forces division. Now they lowered army units into brigades, so Buk could either work in battalion level inside ground forces brigade either in brigade level with group or ground forces brigades in area. I think air defense brigade work with Polyana-D4M1 and I'm sure those higher ASUs get pictures from outside sources too like from VKO radars, air force AWACS or satellites. Polyana-D4M1 could share pictures with lower Barnaul-T.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:12 am

    The whole idea behind the battle management systems in tanks and IFVs and data sharing networking, is that everyone shares information with everyone else.

    This means that the ground forces will share info about detected enemy threats and the air defence forces and air forces will share info too.

    This means an unidentified aerial target on a tanks screen might be a nearby infantrys UAV scouting the area... when the tank detects the aerial vehicle and marks it on their map as unknown then the system will search the known position of friendlies on other databases and should eventually appear as a friendly on the Tanks screen.

    Equally when a helo pops up from behind a hill... if it is patched into the local area network all the friendly vehicles should be already marked on its maps and if it detects an unknown then it can use its Thermal sights and radar and digital optics to identify the unknown as either enemy, friendly, or civilian, which will be marked on their map and passed up to HQ to mark on everyone elses map.

    What I am trying to say is that eventually even individual soldiers will be marked on the super map that everyone uses... that is what Felin is... it is a connection to the network.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  medo on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:23 am

    True, but on the lower level you will have picture only of your area of working, not of all battlefield as in higher level. Problem is captured C4I systems from dead soldiers or from combat vehicles and intercepting radio signals of data links. It must not happened, that from one dead soldier enemy could get your entire data link and battlefield picture. In that case you already lost your battle. This is why pictures are collected in higher level and than send down to needed user.
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    Viktor

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    Air Defense Systems Command posts - IADS

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:24 pm

    To start with this interesting topic




    Appeared in 1991 and used as a CP of an TOR-M1 battery in a Army PVO. It acts as an integral regimental CP of Army PVO.

    This version is interesting because it is a latest modernization of Ranzir called Ranzir-MK and as a Army PVO is placed on wheeled chassis.


    Anyway Ranzirs duties are:

    - Combat actions coordination of subordinate subunits in their interaction zone (it is able to control up to 5 battery command post)

    - Simultaneous reception, processing, identification and mapping of air situation from all sources (all subordinate and three outside information sources)

    - Receiving, processing and display commands Target, generic commands, commands from a higher command post

    - Prioritization and distribution of targets, target designation (obviously most important)

    - The decision of tactical and information-computing tasks using digital terrain maps (planing most effective defense based on digital terrain mapping etc)

    - Evaluation of State and Combat Readiness of CP and Training/Simulating



    At the same time it is able to control:

    - 3 Pechora-2M batteries

    - 4 Tor-M1/2 batteries

    - 4 OSA-AKM batteries

    - 6 Strela-10M3 batteries

    - 6 Tunguska-M1 batteries

    - Igla-S/Strelec etc



    Ranzir-MK receives information from all search and engagement radar systems under its control but as well as from up to three outside information sources:

    - independent radar system directly connected to it

    - higher echelon CP

    - its own radar system (mounted on a Ranzir-MK chassis)




    Also few important things

    - Ranzir is able to process 500 targets and display 250 of them.

    - Distance from the higher command echelon CP (30km)

    - Distance from the subordinate(battery) CP - 5 km

    - Displaying object at max 200km distance

    - Deployment time 5 min (standard for Russian Army with only few exception)













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    medo

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  medo on Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:50 pm

    Great find. I only wonder, why it have old soviet time Aeroflot mark on it.

    Ranzhir-MK is practically battalion level CP, so there is not such need to be on trucked MT-LBu chassis as batteries CPs.
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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:40 pm

    Now I see I forgot to post a link. Well here it is - right from the producer LINK

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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:31 am

    One of many ideas on how should integral division work.

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    gaurav

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  gaurav on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:18 pm

    what is the OS used on the displays..
    I dont think they are windows, Linux.. They are hard drive and memory based .. that I can understand..
    but I think Russian using some different firmware/OS may not be English coding based.. ??Question

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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:29 pm

    From MAKS-2013

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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:22 pm

    Bernaul command post with 1L122 radar on it.





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    medo

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  medo on Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:53 pm

    Viktor wrote:Bernaul command post with 1L122 radar on it.





    Battery radar and CP for Tor-M2? I think barnaul-T for Igla battery have smaller portable 1L122 radar.
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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:52 pm

    New Russian ACS (automatic control system) ... for increased efficiency of AD system and target distribution. 



    LINK (explaines everything but I will extract the most important points)

    The structure of the control system consists of up to 6 sections ACS MANPADS, each of which consists of one module of automatic control (UIA) platoon commander of MANPADS and nine individual sets Automation (ISA) gunners.


    So If we have for instance PPRU-1 or PU-12M6/7 like in the picture that are able to process and calculate around 100 targets. Each PU-12M7 controls 9 MAU ISA (Individual Set Automation)


    MAU ISA
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:55 am

    Southern military district received mobile Poljana-D4M1 automated command and control. ACS controls all versions of S-300V/BUK/TOR/Pancir/Tunguska

    The newest control system GLONASS entered JUVO

    ACS is designed for automatic control of combat operations mixed air defense group, within which can be system-300V and "Thor" complexes "Beech", "Tunguska" and "Carapace".
    According Gorbulya, the product is placed on the four cars and includes an item battle management, command and staff car, standalone workstations and mobile plant.











    LINK from the producer 


    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:21 pm

    Oh, I see. Many thanks for the information. respekt 
    So, for V-PVO units, their management by command posts start only at the regimental level, right?

    Also:

    "Things described above are of course most simplistic view of Russian ADS design. Real one is beauty on its own."

    By this, you mean the variation of launch vehicles, or addition of support units (like regimental-level radars, emitter locators, etc.)?
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:08 am

    etaepsilonk wrote:Oh, I see. Many thanks for the information. respekt 
    So, for V-PVO units, their management by command posts start only at the regimental level, right?
    Only for BUK. 
    BUK command posts starts at regimental level and uses 9S470xx and for brigade command post uses Poljana-D4M1

    With the S-300V situation is very different because firing solutions must be provided even in case of command post destruction so the story goes like this:

    1. At battery (which does not function as an independent operational unit Very Happy  ) level you have - 9S32M/9S19M (used only when no other choise is left)
    2. At regimental level you have 9S457M
    3. At brigade level you have Poljana-D4M1 (and much more modern Baikal-1ME)
    4. At area air defense level you have Univerzal-1/Acacija/Bastion-KE
    5. At zonal air defense you have Bastion-E



    etaepsilonk wrote:Also:

    Viktor wrote:"Things described above are of course most simplistic view of Russian ADS design. Real one is beauty on its own."
    By this, you mean the variation of launch vehicles, or addition of support units (like regimental-level radars, emitter locators, etc.)?

    Nope, I mean this Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  (only one of many possibilities but you get the picture what am I talking about) 

    it is a different thing for PVO ofcourse

    but note that this is still only part of entire picture as things what are missing are command and control post for:

    1. ECM/ECCM command post
    2. ELINT (passive radar control) command post
    3. Dedicated command and control of aviation component although some of above mentioned command can control small detachment of aviation command post

    all integrated in a even broader picture

    +

    all the other things like radars, decoys etc that have their own radar command posts + launch vehicles, support units and many other things. 

    Bassically you would need to have a A0 paper to draw all the connection in detail.

    Some of those other systems I started to process are here LINK and here LINK and here LINK and that is a huge job that takes time and knowledge (and we all lack both of those).

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  etaepsilonk on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:10 pm

    Thank you Smile But correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't your picture comprises of many different AD systems, not just one? If that's the case, with that A0 paper you want, like what, draw entire VKO structure?  Shocked  Very Happy 
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:28 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:If that's the case, with that A0 paper you want, like what, draw entire VKO structure?  Shocked  Very Happy 

    This drawing is accurate so it was not done by me. If I where to draw entire VKO it would contain many errors so I wont.  Very Happy 


    etaepsilonk wrote:Thank you :)But correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't your picture comprises of many different AD systems, not just one? 


    Anyway you are wrong as it does comprises of many different AD systems. The schematic drawing  of V-PVO says it all you just need to read it. Ask yourself one question.

    How many of what type of SAM systems can command posts like Poljana-D4M1/9S470M1-2/9S457M/Ranzir-M/Bernaul/Sborka-M1-2/9S932-1/Kasateljnaja support  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  and you will 

    easily see that based on this drawing you have everything you need to imagine pictures like this and many others: 



    Thats why SAM are not added - because its obvious.

    etaepsilonk

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    So, for V-PVO units, their management by command posts start only at the regimental level, right?

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:36 pm

    I see, thanks for info  Smile 
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian ΙΑDS Command and Control Systems

    Post  Viktor on Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:07 pm


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