Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Share
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2959
    Points : 2988
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  max steel on Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:36 pm

    Any update on anti-aircraft missile complex short-range "Morpheus". It is expected that the new system will go to the Russian Air Force in 2015 ?
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5660
    Points : 6303
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:49 pm

    I have been told almost 2 years ago now (Militarov will know) that there are certain problems with Morfei and that delays are expected because of it.no word about it for some time now but that is expected from top noch system that will have great impact on the modern battlefield and is first in its class.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5916
    Points : 5955
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Any update on anti-aircraft missile complex short-range "Morpheus". It is expected that the new system will go to the Russian Air Force in 2015 ?

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:11 am

    Viktor wrote:I have been told almost 2 years ago now (Militarov will know) that there are certain problems with Morfei and that delays are expected because of it.no word about it for some time now but that is expected from top noch system that will have great impact on the modern battlefield and is first in its class.

    Yeah problems where reported with it, i belive i saw somewhere its pushed for 2018. now, but i guess it will come around.

    Austin

    Posts : 6693
    Points : 7090
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:55 pm

    what ever happened to the Ultra Short range missile under development that was similar to Iron Dome in concept , suddenly there is no news there ?
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2915
    Points : 2949
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  franco on Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:30 pm

    Austin wrote:what ever happened to the Ultra Short range missile under development that was similar to Iron Dome in concept , suddenly there is no news there ?

    Read last year there were development problems. What I don't know.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17957
    Points : 18531
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    what ever happened to the Ultra Short range missile under development that was similar to Iron Dome in concept , suddenly there is no news there ?

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:23 am

    what ever happened to the Ultra Short range missile under development that was similar to Iron Dome in concept , suddenly there is no news there ?

    You mean Morfei? 9M100?

    Well I remember in the late 1980s the Mi28 was revealed at foreign airshows, but the Ka-50 was kept secret... mainly because the Ka-50 was accepted for service and the Mi-28 was not.

    Silence can mean problems with development or they can mean they are not prepared to export them any time soon so they don't reveal any information about them to the public.



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    d_taddei2

    Posts : 1238
    Points : 1410
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Another question How effective is Tor M1&M2 and Buk M1,M2, M3 and tunguska against western aircraft?

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:06 pm

    Another question How effective is Tor M1&M2 and Buk M1,M2, M3 and tunguska against western aircraft?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17957
    Points : 18531
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:44 am

    I doubt we will find out because I doubt western aircraft would knowingly fly within range of any such systems.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 1692
    Points : 1688
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  Isos on Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:I doubt we will find out because I doubt western aircraft would knowingly fly within range of any such systems.

    The best thing to do is to ambush fighter by turning radars on jut when they are in range. They should have however good communictions to know fighters are there.

    Another question How effective is Tor M1&M2 and Buk M1,M2, M3 and tunguska against western aircraft?

    Israeli mannaged to evade Syrian Buk missiles. Who knows how they managed to do that (jamming, being at limit range and escaping missiles ..) but they are very good system specially Buk M3, they (specialist who made it) said that it is better than S-300P.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2199
    Points : 2191
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:16 pm

    How they managed to strike Syrian Buks are rather easy - they either struck them while they were on the move (their missiles wouldn't be protruding and radar obviously not in use) and or they struck it outside of range (flying in Israeli territory and dropping a guided munitions than 50km away).

    While Buks are awesome systems, they are rather static when they are to be deployed. So they are good for providing air cover for a forward operating base or some kind of formation that isn't mobile at the time. Tor is mean for fighting while on move and against PGM's.

    extreme_one

    Posts : 4
    Points : 4
    Join date : 2018-05-12

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  extreme_one on Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 am

    If you were to purchase the very best Russian systems for an imaginary country with no existing SAMs and no limit on money what would your choices be for the air defense force, army and navy?
    Feel free to suggest if any of the below systems shouldn't even be in the discussion or changed to a newer version I haven't listed.

    9K333 Verba
    9K33 Osa
    9K35 Strela-10
    2K22 Tunguska
    Pantsir-SM
    Buk-M3
    Tor-M2U
    Sosna-R
    Bagulnik
    42S6 Morfey
    S-350E Vityaz 50R6
    S-300V4
    S-400
    S-500
    A–235

    extreme_one

    Posts : 4
    Points : 4
    Join date : 2018-05-12

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  extreme_one on Sun May 20, 2018 9:40 pm

    Is this forum dead? =(
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 386
    Points : 386
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  Hole on Mon May 21, 2018 11:38 am

    Yes, you killed it. Very Happy


    Suggestions:

    Army: S-300V4, Buk-M3, Tor-M2, Tunguska-M1, Sosna, Verba

    Air force: S-500, S-350, Pantsir
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 11396
    Points : 11875
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  George1 on Mon May 21, 2018 2:10 pm

    extreme_one wrote:If you were to purchase the very best Russian systems for an imaginary country with no existing SAMs and no limit on money what would your choices be for the air defense force, army and navy?
    Feel free to suggest if any of the below systems shouldn't even be in the discussion or changed to a newer version I haven't listed.

    9K333 Verba
    9K33 Osa
    9K35 Strela-10
    2K22 Tunguska
    Pantsir-SM  
    Buk-M3
    Tor-M2U
    Sosna-R
    Bagulnik
    42S6 Morfey
    S-350E Vityaz 50R6
    S-300V4
    S-400
    S-500
    A–235

    depends on the adversary..


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    extreme_one

    Posts : 4
    Points : 4
    Join date : 2018-05-12

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  extreme_one on Mon May 21, 2018 4:37 pm

    George1 wrote:
    extreme_one wrote:If you were to purchase the very best Russian systems for an imaginary country with no existing SAMs and no limit on money what would your choices be for the air defense force, army and navy?
    Feel free to suggest if any of the below systems shouldn't even be in the discussion or changed to a newer version I haven't listed.

    9K333 Verba
    9K33 Osa
    9K35 Strela-10
    2K22 Tunguska
    Pantsir-SM  
    Buk-M3
    Tor-M2U
    Sosna-R
    Bagulnik
    42S6 Morfey
    S-350E Vityaz 50R6
    S-300V4
    S-400
    S-500
    A–235

    depends on the adversary..

    This is a shopping list for Iran. Disregarding the current equipment they have.
    I would think in the first days of the attack they would launch around 500 cruise missiles.
    Google has a map with all the US bases around Iran
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=29.075375241390315%2C53.876952687499966&spn=30.823114%2C43.945313&t=h&msa=0&z=5&source=embed&ie=UTF8&mid=1XmUD73hHQVBbdm8UcIrRtAcCgTg



    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2199
    Points : 2191
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon May 21, 2018 5:53 pm

    In that regard, to being hit by ridiculous amount of missiles, then SHORADS and possibly medium range missiles, with a whole lot to dispense, is ideal.

    So in this regard, Pantsirs are much needed and possibly the best option next to modern Tor-M2 using the newest missile 9M338.

    For medium range, HQ-16, Shtil knockoff for land use, may be a good option as it carries more missiles.

    extreme_one

    Posts : 4
    Points : 4
    Join date : 2018-05-12

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  extreme_one on Mon May 21, 2018 6:17 pm

    They have a $16B/year military budget.
    Makes you think what they spend it on since they are not buying anything.
    They have a massive need for hardware and I think the US withdrawal is the perfect excuse to not follow the weapons embargo. Although I think Russia has turned soft in recent weeks.

    After the initial cruise missiles strike, aircraft would start attacking.

    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 386
    Points : 386
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  Hole on Mon May 21, 2018 9:54 pm

    Iran has its own arms industry. They build there own drones, ASM´s, SAM´s and a lot of other stuff.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 11396
    Points : 11875
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  George1 on Mon May 21, 2018 10:30 pm

    extreme_one wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    extreme_one wrote:If you were to purchase the very best Russian systems for an imaginary country with no existing SAMs and no limit on money what would your choices be for the air defense force, army and navy?
    Feel free to suggest if any of the below systems shouldn't even be in the discussion or changed to a newer version I haven't listed.

    9K333 Verba
    9K33 Osa
    9K35 Strela-10
    2K22 Tunguska
    Pantsir-SM  
    Buk-M3
    Tor-M2U
    Sosna-R
    Bagulnik
    42S6 Morfey
    S-350E Vityaz 50R6
    S-300V4
    S-400
    S-500
    A–235

    depends on the adversary..

    This is a shopping list for Iran. Disregarding the current equipment they have.
    I would think in the first days of the attack they would launch around 500 cruise missiles.
    Google has a map with all the US bases around Iran
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=29.075375241390315%2C53.876952687499966&spn=30.823114%2C43.945313&t=h&msa=0&z=5&source=embed&ie=UTF8&mid=1XmUD73hHQVBbdm8UcIrRtAcCgTg




    even though, ABMs S-500 and A–235 aren't for export.


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17957
    Points : 18531
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 22, 2018 10:14 am

    Well, to be honest the Pantsir has proven to be effective against cruise missiles, but I would back it up with 4-6 A-50s and later with an export model of the A-100.

    I would sell to the Iranians the licence to produce as many Pantsir missiles as they like for 1 dollar, on the condition that it is only for domestic Iranian self defence use... they can put them on trucks, armoured vehicles, ships, they can mount them on aircraft... manned and unmanned.

    I would also sell them some MiG-31s and a licence to produce R-33s... for domestic use only.

    Looking at that map of nearby US bases I would also sell them Iskander missiles, and the licence to produce them minus the guidance, which I would sell to them... as many as they wanted.

    But most important I would provide them with a communications network and command system that allows all of their SAM batteries to communicate, and work together to deal with external threats together in a unified way.

    The British won the battle of britain, not because they had more planes or better planes or better pilots... they won because they had better command and control and radar. They didn't need to patrol all the time looking for threats or attacks... they could rest planes and pilots but when an attack came they could concentrate their forces to meet that attack. They had fewer planes but in the air they could bring as many aircraft to bear as they needed to get local superiority.

    It is the same with attacks from cruise missiles... and it is easier to use air and ground assets together.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 386
    Points : 386
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  Hole on Tue May 22, 2018 10:30 am

    Russian-Iranian company. Best way for both sides. Earn money. Get modern weapons.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian SAMs: Types, Comparisons, Questions

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri May 25, 2018 10:38 pm