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    Russian VSHORADS Thread

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    Austin

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    V-SHORAD Systems (Igla, Strela-10, Tunguska, Sosna-R)

    Post  Austin on Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:04 pm

    Is there any new replacement for the handheld Igla-S under development or on the drawing board ?
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:37 am

    The Verba MANPADS,whose missile carries a 3-waveband optical homer,is to oust all variants of the Strela-2 and Igla MANPADS. Unlike its predecessors,the Verba's range,altitude and speed have increased by 20,30 and 20 per cent respectively to 0.5 –5.4km,0.01 –4.5 km and 500 m/s respectively. Its reaction time is within 8 s,and its warhead has gained 1.5 kg more weight – an increase of 20 per cent.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:38 am

    Also another new SAM:

    The Bagulnik SAM system will replace the Strela-10 SAM system.Its laser-guided missile is believed to be able to kill threats travelling at a speed of 700 m/s at a range of 1 –10 km and at an altitude of 0.01-5 km.

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:15 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The Verba MANPADS,whose missile carries a 3-waveband optical homer,is to oust all variants of the Strela-2 and Igla MANPADS. Unlike its predecessors,the Verba's range,altitude and speed have increased by 20,30 and 20 per cent respectively to 0.5 –5.4km,0.01 –4.5 km and 500 m/s respectively. Its reaction time is within 8 s,and its warhead has gained 1.5 kg more weight – an increase of 20 per cent.

    Didnt knew about this, what is this 3-waveband homer , I know that Igla has 2 IR channels.

    The speed of Mach 1.5 isnt it too less to intercept a fighter ?

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:Also another new SAM:

    The Bagulnik SAM system will replace the Strela-10 SAM system.Its laser-guided missile is believed to be able to kill threats travelling at a speed of 700 m/s at a range of 1 –10 km and at an altitude of 0.01-5 km.

    How does a laser guided Surface to Air missile works ? Does the laser needs to be constantly pointed at the aircraft in motion or is this something else ?
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:17 am

    Didnt knew about this, what is this 3-waveband homer , I know that Igla has 2 IR channels.

    Very old IR seeking missiles like Strela (SA-7) don't see images, they see hot points.
    When you locked an old SA-7 you pointed it at the target aircraft (hopefully its hot engine exhaust) and pulled the trigger to get it to look in a narrow field of view. If you kept the target in the centre of view it will spot the hottest part of the engine as a hot point and get a lock. As long as there were not other hot things in its field of view when you fired the missile it would guide and hit the target. Problem was that if the target passed in front of the sun or deployed a hot flare the missile would see a hotter point of energy and home in on that.
    Many things were tried including filters where the second hottest thing the missile could see was locked on to so when the missile was fired all the flares were ignored because they were much hotter than the engine nozzle. So flares were developed that generated different temperatures and were released in bunches to make a pattern of hot spots like a real aircraft.
    The two colour seeker means that an IR seeker could see in infra red or heat range of EM energy and it could also see in the UV or ultra violet range... engines and hot parts on aircraft don't give off UV so a flare that is hot enough will be rejected because it gives off UV light as well.
    Three colour means another frequency is added to make it harder to distract or fool.


    The speed of Mach 1.5 isnt it too less to intercept a fighter ?

    MANPADS are designed for soldiers to use and can only hit targets below about 3,000m. It is very unlikely that a target aircraft will be supersonic at those altitudes that will be troubling that soldier... a helo or CAS and now UAV and UCAV is now a more likely target and they are not fast.

    How does a laser guided Surface to Air missile works ? Does the laser needs to be constantly pointed at the aircraft in motion or is this something else ?

    Not 100% sure because I have not seen this particular missile, but most Russian ground launched missiles that use laser guidance are beam riders, like SOSNA-R, KORNET, and the various tank gun fired missiles.
    Because the platform aims the beam at the target it is less likely to be distracted by jamming or decoys. Auto trackers are widely used that can follow most targets with ease and are not effected by return fire or nerves and not effected by the individual skill of the operator. Because the missile looks back at the launch platform with its seeker it is actually quite difficult to jam. A laser pointed at target needs to be quite powerful if the missile is to find the laser spot on the target. For a 10km range engagement the laser is travelling 20km and the seeker has to spot the reflected laser energy through smoke and fog and even rain and other atmospheric conditions. Even painting the target black makes it harder to lase.
    Having a beam rider limits the target marker to the launch platform where as laser homing could have another platform marking the target (even a UAV close to the target), but because the seeker looks directly into the launch platforms laser beam the laser can be 4 orders of magnitude less powerful... ie 10,000 times less powerful and the target might not even detect the beam.
    The missile itself will likely have a very high speed booster rocket and will probably fly at more than 1km per second for most of its flight.
    Basically the missile will look back at the launch platform in flight and detect its position in the beam. It will then manouver in flight to centre itself and simply maintain its position in the centre of the beam. As the beam moves to follow the target the missile will manouver to remain in the centre of the beam till impact or the proximity fuse is initiated.
    A smart system might even offset the beam so the target is not actually illuminated with the beam till a second before impact when the beam will be aimed at the target point.

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:58 am

    GarryB wrote:Very old IR seeking missiles like Strela (SA-7) don't see images, they see hot points.
    When you locked an old SA-7 you pointed it at the target aircraft (hopefully its hot engine exhaust) and pulled the trigger to get it to look in a narrow field of view. If you kept the target in the centre of view it will spot the hottest part of the engine as a hot point and get a lock. As long as there were not other hot things in its field of view when you fired the missile it would guide and hit the target. Problem was that if the target passed in front of the sun or deployed a hot flare the missile would see a hotter point of energy and home in on that.
    Many things were tried including filters where the second hottest thing the missile could see was locked on to so when the missile was fired all the flares were ignored because they were much hotter than the engine nozzle. So flares were developed that generated different temperatures and were released in bunches to make a pattern of hot spots like a real aircraft.
    The two colour seeker means that an IR seeker could see in infra red or heat range of EM energy and it could also see in the UV or ultra violet range... engines and hot parts on aircraft don't give off UV so a flare that is hot enough will be rejected because it gives off UV light as well.
    Three colour means another frequency is added to make it harder to distract or fool.

    Nice Explanation Thanks

    The 3 color Seeker could be 2 IR + 1 UV , the 2 IR seeker is also labeled as IIR seeker.

    The latest shortrange AAM RVV-MD has 2 color IR seeker ( IIR )

    http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/566/

    MANPADS are designed for soldiers to use and can only hit targets below about 3,000m. It is very unlikely that a target aircraft will be supersonic at those altitudes that will be troubling that soldier... a helo or CAS and now UAV and UCAV is now a more likely target and they are not fast.

    Target aircraft can be supersonic or it could be low flying supersonic cruise missile like brahmos ,but I guess a person on MANPADS will hardly be able to track a supersonic low flying aircraft , it will probably zoom past before he can lock and launch from this manpads.


    Not 100% sure because I have not seen this particular missile, but most Russian ground launched missiles that use laser guidance are beam riders, like SOSNA-R, KORNET, and the various tank gun fired missiles.
    Because the platform aims the beam at the target it is less likely to be distracted by jamming or decoys. Auto trackers are widely used that can follow most targets with ease and are not effected by return fire or nerves and not effected by the individual skill of the operator. Because the missile looks back at the launch platform with its seeker it is actually quite difficult to jam. A laser pointed at target needs to be quite powerful if the missile is to find the laser spot on the target. For a 10km range engagement the laser is travelling 20km and the seeker has to spot the reflected laser energy through smoke and fog and even rain and other atmospheric conditions. Even painting the target black makes it harder to lase.
    Having a beam rider limits the target marker to the launch platform where as laser homing could have another platform marking the target (even a UAV close to the target), but because the seeker looks directly into the launch platforms laser beam the laser can be 4 orders of magnitude less powerful... ie 10,000 times less powerful and the target might not even detect the beam.
    The missile itself will likely have a very high speed booster rocket and will probably fly at more than 1km per second for most of its flight.
    Basically the missile will look back at the launch platform in flight and detect its position in the beam. It will then manouver in flight to centre itself and simply maintain its position in the centre of the beam. As the beam moves to follow the target the missile will manouver to remain in the centre of the beam till impact or the proximity fuse is initiated.
    A smart system might even offset the beam so the target is not actually illuminated with the beam till a second before impact when the beam will be aimed at the target point.

    I think aircraft have Laser Warning Receiver so an lasing of the aircraft should trigger a warning and perhaps some countermeasures.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:04 am

    Target aircraft can be supersonic or it could be low flying supersonic cruise missile like brahmos ,but I guess a person on MANPADS will hardly be able to track a supersonic low flying aircraft , it will probably zoom past before he can lock and launch from this manpads.

    Below 3,000m altitude no manned aircraft flys faster than about 350m/s, and most will fly slower with ordinance. Brahmos is an exception in this regard and will not be too vulnerable to MANPADS in the sense that the MANPADS user will not likely see its approach in time to do anything and after it is past its speed will make it a pointless target. Cued with information from other sources they might have a chance at a crossing shot, but unlikely in my opinion... better to leave such targets to larger longer range SAMS.
    An aircraft at supersonic speed at low level will be in full AB and receeding at 350m/s or so, so a tail shot is possible and the MANPADs operator will hear the target once it has past him/her.

    I think aircraft have Laser Warning Receiver so an lasing of the aircraft should trigger a warning and perhaps some countermeasures.

    Not sure what countermeasures an aircraft can use to defeat a laser guided SAM.
    To prevent the target from detecting the laser it can be aimed above or below the target till the missile is within 1km or so and the laser then dropped or raised onto the target for the kill.
    A helo could fly behind a tree I guess, but otherwise there is not much an aircraft can do... the missiles seeker is no facing the targetted aircraft so DIRCMs wont work.
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    Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:13 am


    How does a laser guided Surface to Air missile works ? Does the laser needs to be constantly pointed at the aircraft in motion or is this something else ?

    http://aerospaceweb.org/question/weapons/q0187.shtml
    after this read this
    http://aerospaceweb.org/question/electronics/q0191.shtml

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:47 pm



    1. New laser targeting feature, including laser rangefinder. No more waiting for chirps from the missile. The soldier can now look at a display and know if the target is in range and locked.
    2. New thermal imager channel good to 8km
    3. New IFF interrogator. Over half the airplanes lost in Georgia in 2008 were shot down by friendly fire due to MANPADS with no IFF interrogators installed on them.
    4. Fully integrated with C2I systems so when the MANPAD operator finds a target the info is transferred automatically up the chain of command. The system comes with a GLONASS locator and is meant to work as a part of Russia's "Future Soldier" system.

    ( via WAFF )

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:10 pm

    What video you are watching? It clearly says night vision to 8km. GPS location of shooters are given by radio to the electronic tablet of the commander. Anastasia says men are afraid to go into the dark room. lol It takes 5 minutes to set up. All target designations and commands are given by audio channel.

    The NV monocle is huge for both soldier and device, position display is a fucking console with 10dpi and no map, it cannot electronically log designated targets, and the breadboards are from the 80s. This Barnaul system is an overweight piece of junk.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:30 am

    When I saw that small display that clips to the missile with a cable to repeat data on the board below I thought that perhaps it was based on a rather old system that had not been upgraded.

    Such data should be transmitted to a small OLED screen projecting information into the soldiers eye rather than a great big long black tube.
    The Thermal Sight is small enough, but the rest of the stuff seems big and bulky.

    Earlier model MANPADS had built in IFF systems, if the IFF system is this bulky I can see why it was left behind in Georgia 2008.

    Some sort of connection to the C4IR network is good, but I hope this is a very early prototype from the 1980s or this is the losing competitor that is allowed to reveal this because they lost the competition to supply the Russian Armed forces and is now looking for an export partner... Shocked
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:11 am

    GarryB wrote:When I saw that small display that clips to the missile with a cable to repeat data on the board below I thought that perhaps it was based on a rather old system that had not been upgraded.

    No, the Smolensk plant just built that antiquated garbage. It doesn't attach to the missile complex, but is the commanders station so he can see position of his shooters.

    Such data should be transmitted to a small OLED screen projecting information into the soldiers eye rather than a great big long black tube.

    As it is the commander's battle management system, it would only be for the officer. What he needs is an OLED handheld display with a map and INS location of his shooters. The system needs a laser rangefinder that could plot aircraft positions to the commander's BMS.


    The Thermal Sight is small enough, but the rest of the stuff seems big and bulky.

    It is only night vision, not thermal and is very bulky for such a device. The rest of it is ridiculous for a MANPAD operator to have to carry.

    Earlier model MANPADS had built in IFF systems, if the IFF system is this bulky I can see why it was left behind in Georgia 2008.

    It didn't say anything about IFF, nor did I see it.

    Some sort of connection to the C4IR network is good, but I hope this is a very early prototype from the 1980s or this is the losing competitor that is allowed to reveal this because they lost the competition to supply the Russian Armed forces and is now looking for an export partner... Shocked

    It is the perfect example with what is wrong with our defence industry.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:58 pm

    It is the perfect example with what is wrong with our defence industry.

    Well I would want to see its performance before I dismissed it.

    If it works then it is something to start from, but I would want to go through every item and look for ways to improve it.

    Regarding the Scope, well if it is only II then that is fine... what is the point of using thermal imagers if an II will do the job. The only question is does it do the job?
    Thermal sights would make it all weather but can make some objects hard to identify.
    A Thermal sight that can see 8km would be quite expensive.

    BTW what do you mean by this being a commanders station.

    It was my impression that it would be used by the gunners and the display mounted on the missile was to allow the gunner to see the direction they were supposed to be looking in for the incoming target they are supposed to engage. A way for the commander to direct his gunners to different targets without voice communication.

    I would think the best way to get Russian makers up to speed is to give them work and make demands on improvements.
    Not only have they been unfunded for two decades, the competition has been very well funded.

    Lets not break the system that is supposed to be working for you.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  medo on Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:35 pm

    Does Russian air force also operates MANPADs, where Bernaul could be used, or are MANPADs only in army air defense units? I read somewhere, that air force will buy around 200 Pantsirs. Any confirmations to these news? When will tracked version of Pantsir come in production?
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    Barnaul-T AA system

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:10 am

    MANPADs are widely deployed in the Russian Armed forces and are in use in the Army, Navy, and the Air forces.

    I believe the KGB/FSB had/has the responsibility of protecting live tactical nuclear warheads and in that role they would probably operate all sorts of anti aircraft and anti vehicle weapons too.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:21 am

    The performance figures I have seen for the new missile are not radically different from Igla-S so it really wouldn't surprise me if from the outside it looked very similar.

    It has a new seeker... which from the outside might look the same, and its performance improvements are listed as a range of 0.5 –5.4km, an effective altitude of 0.01 –4.5 km and a missile speed of 500 m/s... the figures given for Igla are range of 0.5 –5.2km, an effective altitude of 0.01 –3.5 km and an average missile flight speed of 570 m/s which makes me suspect that the 500m/s is the new head on intercept speed which was 360-400m/s for the Igla.

    Based on this I would say the new missile could look almost identical to the Igla missile but with a new seeker and a slightly more powerful rocket motor and a slightly larger warhead. Hopefully it has the proximity fuse of the Igla-S too.

    Igla is already an excellent missile and this new seeker should make it very hard to defeat.

    BTW hope you feel better. We are relying on you... Very Happy

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:04 am

    GarryB wrote:The performance figures I have seen for the new missile are not radically different from Igla-S so it really wouldn't surprise me if from the outside it looked very similar.

    No I confirmed and reconfirmed there is no new SAM shown but Sterlet SAM fitted on a mobile launcher , Infact I almost entered in to an argument with him on this , but I had a nice long chat with the guy who was manning the Igla-S system , seems to be a very nice system the only problem is it does not have a re-programmable ECM system(like stinger ) since it is not a digital system but a analog one , it has 2 colour seeker and laser proximity fuse.

    He also explained to me the advantage of analog system over digital for short range sam , over all it was a nice long chat and those guys very quite ready to answer your questions. I managed to get a upclose view of Igla-S,touch and get a feel of it Smile

    They ofcourse denied the existance of Verba or any new system , the only system in production is Igla-S right now.

    Here is the picture of the new system with Strelets Missile Launcher
    link

    It has Strelets Missile 4 on each side and the missile has its own EO tracking right there in the middle


    BTW hope you feel better. We are relying on you... Very Happy

    Yes I have partially recovered Thanks , I did manage to get lot of photograph and lot of brochure of systems and updates ,Will be posting them as soon as I reach my home base probably by Monday.Its a very tiring task walking the whole day and talking to people around and taking photograph specially if you are not well Embarassed

    BTW I have managed to speak with Dr Pillai and have a photograph of me with him , one of the thing he mentioned to me is that in recent test Brahmos managed to do low trajectory as low as 5 meters ( previously 10-15 m ) so now the revised figure will be 5 - 15 m

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:36 pm

    No I confirmed and reconfirmed there is no new SAM shown but Sterlet SAM
    fitted on a mobile launcher , Infact I almost entered in to an
    argument with him on this , but I had a nice long chat with the guy who
    was manning the Igla-S system , seems to be a very nice system the only
    problem is it does not have a re-programmable ECM system(like stinger )
    since it is not a digital system but a analog one , it has 2 colour
    seeker and laser proximity fuse.

    I would suspect that the Verba will be compatible with the Strelet system and when they are ready to reveal it perhaps the new missile will be digital?
    The later model R-73s had laser proximity fuses too... the export versions called R-73EL.

    I managed to get a upclose view of Igla-S,touch and get a feel of it

    Too big to go in the pocket eh? Smile


    It has Strelets Missile 4 on each side and the missile has its own EO tracking right there in the middle

    The problem with models like that is that the actual vehicle can be very different.

    I have seen some IR 360 degree sensors fitted to this sort of launcher... I wonder what sort of sensors will be fitted to the final vehicle.
    The manned position itself looks a lot like the setup for the SA-13, but it also had additional boxes with sensors to detect things like terrain following radars and radar altimeters that might give away the presence of a low flying aircraft or missile passively.

    BTW I have managed to speak with Dr Pillai and have a photograph of me
    with him , one of the thing he mentioned to me is that in recent test
    Brahmos managed to do low trajectory as low as 5 meters ( previously
    10-15 m ) so now the revised figure will be 5 - 15 m

    That is really impressive... I think some people forget how fast it would be to be flying at mach 2.5 at such low altitudes.
    No manned aircraft could fly that fast and the flight range of missiles like Sidewinder fired from low level at a target would be very short... in fact I rather doubt a Sidewinder would have the gas to catch a Brahmos from behind at low level and you'd probably have to get within 5-8km to get it with an AMRAAM too.

    BTW interesting pictures... especially the blogspot with the model of the Mig-35 with 5 under wing hard points.
    The visible wing shows an R-73, R-77, Kh-29T, Kh-31, and a 500kg LGB, but under the other wing it seems to have a very large white launcher which I would guess is an air launched Club missile with a large pylon that looks like one of those MSP-418K jamming pylons.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  medo on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:27 pm

    No I confirmed and reconfirmed there is no new SAM shown but Sterlet SAM fitted on a mobile launcher , Infact I almost entered in to an argument with him on this , but I had a nice long chat with the guy who was manning the Igla-S system , seems to be a very nice system the only problem is it does not have a re-programmable ECM system(like stinger ) since it is not a digital system but a analog one , it has 2 colour seeker and laser proximity fuse.

    He also explained to me the advantage of analog system over digital for short range sam , over all it was a nice long chat and those guys very quite ready to answer your questions. I managed to get a upclose view of Igla-S,touch and get a feel of it Smile

    They ofcourse denied the existance of Verba or any new system , the only system in production is Igla-S right now.

    I hope you get some good photos of Strelets. Igla-S is excellent MANPAD. Even older Igla is well comparable with any Stinger. Maybe newer Verba will be digital, to get smaller and lighter homing head and with that larger warhead or rocket motor to increase range. Igla-S have range of 6 km, maybe Verba could reach 7 km.

    This is true, that Igla-S is now in production, but I don't know why they denied existence of Verba. Even if it is in developing state, it exist. Maybe it will be for domestic use only and this could be a reason of denial.
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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:37 pm

    This is true, that Igla-S is now in production, but I don't know why
    they denied existence of Verba. Even if it is in developing state, it
    exist. Maybe it will be for domestic use only and this could be a reason
    of denial.

    Or it could be he was just a little cog in the machine and his job is to sell Igla rather than advertise anything new.

    Another possibility might be what you suggest, now that the Russian military is buying there is less emphasis on export and more on production for domestic use.

    I remember a while back a South African company made a SAM vehicle that was basically a locally made APC with a launcher on its back that had 6 missile positions, but the interesting thing was it was a hybrid between SA-9 and SA-13 in that it had two SA-13 missiles and 4 SA-9 missiles on the mount at once. The idea was that most targets could be engaged with the cheaper SA-9 missiles but any more difficult or more capable target could be engaged with the better SA-13 missiles.

    It meant overall capability of SA-13 but at reduced operational costs.

    I am guessing that with 8 ready to launch missiles this new MTLB based vehicle could be upgraded with perhaps 4 Verbas when they are operational. They will likely be more expensive initially because of the new seeker, but the Igla-S is already a very capable missile so the 6 Igla-S missiles could be used against the easier targets and the Verbas could be reserved for the more difficult targets like higher flying UAVs with small IR signatures, or perhaps targets with better self protection suites.

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:04 am

    Well the person was irritated with me to see me the 2nd day and ask the same question ,where is "Verba" Smile

    Well this time around he sternly told me that they only talk of production system and not development system.

    He was a very knowledgeable person and he patiently replied to all my queries , quitely behind me as I was talking and asking questions , there was a retd Air Commodore who was quitely listening to our conversation and was impressed like he told me with the questions I asked , he thought I was in forces { sorry a bit of shameless self patting here Smile }

    The Air Commodore was has been a veteran and flew Mig-21 and 27 all through his life , so the conversation became more interesting since he personally knew Igla very well and they had participated in many exercises with IAF and Air Defence using Igla.

    I will sum up all about Igla as he told me and in the conversation we had later today.

    But here is a Ria Video of the new system

    http://rian.ru/video/20110213/333949870.html

    Medo I have many photograph and information latest Broacher on Russian system both civil and military as I spent a good amount of time perhaps the most in their booths talking to them , collecting information etc.

    I will post it in days ahead , just that I am back home work pressure has hit me for the 1 week off I took , so need to adress that first , rest assured I will post many good stuff in days and months ahead.

    Garry
    , Although I forgot to put this question to him but I think Brahmos does not travel at Mach 2.5 at low altitude ( 5 - 15 m ) but it does a Mach 1.5 - 1.8.

    It travels Mach 2.5-2.8 at high altitude and when it drops low it slows down , i think with a liquid fuel ramjet its easier to throttle the engine , the reason being the heat issue , Brahmos is not made of any special metal or material like Taitinium or exotic metal alloys to bear those heats.

    Yes 5 m is quite good for a big missile like brahmos , its really big I got a feel of it. Even if it does a Mach 1.5 at 5 m not many airdefence can beat it.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:15 am

    Although I forgot to put this question to him but I think Brahmos does
    not travel at Mach 2.5 at low altitude ( 5 - 15 m ) but it does a Mach
    1.5 - 1.8.

    The current model Moskit (3M82) flys at mach 2.2 at low level so I thought it could at least manage that. Note the Sunburn (Ship launched Moskit) never flys higher than 300m so its speed of Mach 2.2 is definitely at low level... the first model Sunburn 3M80 had a high altitude speed of Mach 2.5 and a low level speed of about mach 1.8. The 3M82 however had a estimated high altitude speed of mach 3 and a low level speed of mach 2.2 but its primary target was 1980s AEGIS class cruisers armed with STANDARD SAMs... it was the low flight altitude that protected the missiles from the SAMs and the high flight speed that protected them from CIWS like Phalanx.

    Brahmos is not made of any special metal or material like Taitinium or exotic metal alloys to bear those heats

    It has a very small frontal area so ablative materials could be used for the short periods of high temperatures.

    Austin

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:Thanks for that Austin... I wasn't even aware they were thinking of developing the Ka-31 into a land recon radar platform to support army operations. Interesting also that the platform is used to test that self defence system. I can imagine the final aircraft will certainly need it... even in a low tech fight.

    This is the machine 231 they are talking about in land reco role ( via keypubs )


    Austin

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    Re: Russian VSHORADS Thread

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:11 pm

    I have been inside a Ka-31 AEW of the IN during AI 2005 , the entire cargo area is jam packed with electronic fitted with many boxes , very little space to move around.The cockpit is quite spacious though with loads of gizmos and flat lcd screen.

    Its an experience to be inside a Kamov.

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