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    Upgraded Kirov class: Project 11442 [Admiral Nakhimov]

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:10 pm

    What about the teeny tiny problem that the lider doesnt exist and will not exist for the next 2 decades or more if papadragon is to be believed?

    This has nothing to do with PapaDragon, this is simple reality

    Lider is still in design phase at best, design is not complete, not approved, money has not been allocated, contract has not been signed and construction has neither commenced nor completed

    It will take at least two decades at best until all this happens and first ship is in the water

    Lazarev exists. Lider doesn't. By the time lider exists it will still take more time than upgrading lazarev.

    Lazarev is trashed and is slated for scrapping, government decided on this years ago

    Lider will not be built for another two decades.

    Neither will exist any time soon.

    What they need to do build (and only thing they can) are Gorshkov series, only thing available for next two decades
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:03 am

    When Trump gets reelected and decides to go for the record... 2021 as the first year the US military budget passes 1 trillion dollars, the Russians will realise they need a global presence or capacity to go anywhere... an Orlan class ship and the K is rather better than nothing.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:18 am

    GarryB wrote:When Trump gets reelected and decides to go for the record... 2021 as the first year the US military budget passes 1 trillion dollars, the Russians will realise they need a global presence or capacity to go anywhere... an Orlan class ship and the K is rather better than nothing.

    And where would they go?

    If USA goes for 1t dollar budget Russia will be too busy fortifying the mainland

    Going on some ship cruise too far out in that environment would be suicidal and pointless especially in those rust buckets

    And if there's one thing they would need should that happen is more smaller ships to spread the workload
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:38 am

    When Trump gets reelected and decides to go for the record... 2021 as the first year the US military budget passes 1 trillion dollars, the Russians will realise they need a global presence or capacity to go anywhere... an Orlan class ship and the K is rather better than nothing.

    Both is true, but Russians will rather go for the blue water navy to fill the gap.

    If USA goes for 1t dollar budget Russia will be too busy fortifying the mainland

    Russians will support Trump again I suspect, and it may be a decisive factor again. Better spend a trillion on US homeland defence than 700 bn in the Middle East. The roles are reversing, Russia is becoming dominant in MENA and the US is saying their allies should take care of themselves.
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    Post  southpark on Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:04 am

    So offtopic only when the American talks I guess....well, I read somewhere that at debt at 150% of GDP and current interests, most of our revenues will go in servicing the interest on debt....so most likely we will see repriotization of the programs and white elephants will be culled. Trump made a statement today to put the feeler out there....I think the Russian's are probably waiting for decent strategies to counter imminent hypersonic missile proliferation before accelerating their builds. They obviously are capable of building big ships...more than money....requirements are the key I think.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:56 am

    Totally, the requirements matter. They may be delaying the blue water ships construction to see what will Tico replacement look like.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:47 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote: Totally, the requirements matter. They may be delaying the blue water ships construction to see what will Tico replacement look like.

    They are replaced by burkes III.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CG(X)

    The program was cancelled in the 2010 Quadrennial Defense Review.[3] The CG(X)'s mission will instead be performed by DDG-51 Flight III destroyers, after the U.S. Navy concluded that the ships could rely on off-board and space-based sensors and so did not need a radar bigger than the DDG could carry.[4][5]

    Russia needs at least to upgrade the su-33 and mig-29k with r-37 and increase its range to at least 500km with passive radar to detect awacs.

    R-77-1 100km range  will be turned into r-77M 190km range. With the same technology they can do the same for r-37 300km to 500km.

    S-400 and s-500 need to be able to shoot awacs at 500km too. Even 600km if they get new space based passive sensors to track awacs which emmit radars waves at more 1000km.
    verkhoturye51
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:41 pm

    The plan is to start laying down "Large Surface Combatant" hulls in 2025 after the last Burke III.
    runaway
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    Post  runaway on Mon May 13, 2019 12:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    verkhoturye51 wrote:
    they wouldn't have cleaned and repainted her hull and superstructure if she was a useless hulk.    

    It was painted before Putin's visit.

    Now the rust is gone.

    [url=https://servimg.com/view/1989513http://i.servimg.com/u/f80/19/89/51/30/57348010.jpg[/img]


    I doubt they would have bothered with painting this monster just for PR visit

    And even if it was in mint condition fact remains that time required to overhaul just on work them is too long

    PtG was supposed to be overhauled in same shipyard as Nakhimonov but behold thing has been dragging so long that they now have to send it elsewhere in parallel with Nakhimonov

    Lazarov is a goner

    I can see the problem with getting her to Severodvinsk if nothing else. But i much doubt they would paint her if she is due to be scrapped next year. Its no small to paint and its not cheap.
    However i would lay my resourses on Gorshkovs instead as its much more cost effective.

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